Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 We are about 2.5 hours North of Pecos County. We have been watching their progress to a County wide system over the past year or so. It seems that the Fort Stockton system had reached the breaking point when things started changing. Because of the change there, I have been able to push for some improvement in our system as well. I am seeing a ripple effect throughout the Western Texas region with Winkler County EMS, Monahans EMS, s EMS all making advancements in pay as well. With the increased activity in the oilfield, uranium enrichment facilities, horse racing etc..., we are experiencing an increase in call volume too. It is taking a lot of time and effort to educate our elected officials, but we are making headway. Congrats to Pecos County EMS for their success. , Director Seminole EMS 302 S. Main Seminole, Texas 79360 FAX Cell Re: Re: Shift Pay I think that is great. I just don't see the numbers working out here in South Texas. Our guys work about 10 shifts a month on a 24/48 schedule and we do pay overtime after 40 hours a week. The base pay is right at $43,000 per year which is the norm, maybe a little high in our immediate area. We have an excellent benefit package with county retirement. $59,000 a year, man I just can't see it. We thought we made a big jump when we got our guys a raise from $38,000 to $43,000 with the base pay going up everytime a raise is given to county employees. It will take a few years to hit that $59,000 mark. I would also imangine quite a bit of airway obstruction along the way. Henry Re: Shift Pay No problem, Henry. I work for Pecos County EMS, previously known as Fort Stockton EMS. We get about 9 24 hour shifts every 28 days. We are in a rural area that my guess would average 5 calls per day( have not seen the numbers since we went county wide ), spread county wide and including transfers to larger hospitals. We currently staff 4 ambulances 24 hours per day. I did see an ad in the Odessa paper recently that advertised $25/hr for Paramedics, $18/hr for Intermediates. Company name was not listed and I had no interest in going to Odessa, so did not investigate. It is nice to see that some areas are starting to pay a little better. All it takes is a community getting prioritys right and money can be found. Perhaps someday we can be paid as true healthcare professionals rather than as ambulance drivers. Just my worthless opinion on things. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in > over-time if its worked. > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > Thanks, > > Wayne > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in over-time if its worked. Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. Thanks, Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 As to legalitys I do not know. But I want to vent about wages. Sorry to hijack your post. We as a profession need to start paying for every hour on duty including overtime. So many services use the we pay you $XX hour but then only pay so many hours per day or require unpaid on call time. When you add it up many end up really paying much less, sometimes even less than minimum wage. This needs to stop so our profession can advance. Advance how? By having livable wages we will be able to attract and retain people. Right now many come into EMS because they want to help people but are forced to leave because they can not survive on the low wages. Sorry for my rant. While I work for one of the better paying services ( Paramedics $18, EMT-I $15, and EMT-B $13 paid all 24 ), I see so many others still being abused. I just really want to see our profession move forward. Again sorry for the rant. I now return you to the discussion. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in over-time if its worked. > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > Thanks, > Wayne > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 That would make the paramedic base pay $59,904 a year. Would you mind telling us what service you work for and where it is located? Henry Re: Shift Pay As to legalitys I do not know. But I want to vent about wages. Sorry to hijack your post. We as a profession need to start paying for every hour on duty including overtime. So many services use the we pay you $XX hour but then only pay so many hours per day or require unpaid on call time. When you add it up many end up really paying much less, sometimes even less than minimum wage. This needs to stop so our profession can advance. Advance how? By having livable wages we will be able to attract and retain people. Right now many come into EMS because they want to help people but are forced to leave because they can not survive on the low wages. Sorry for my rant. While I work for one of the better paying services ( Paramedics $18, EMT-I $15, and EMT-B $13 paid all 24 ), I see so many others still being abused. I just really want to see our profession move forward. Again sorry for the rant. I now return you to the discussion. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in over-time if its worked. > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > Thanks, > Wayne > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 8:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Most of the northwest houston area is getting close to this pay and some have passed it. Thanks, Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: Re: Shift Pay That would make the paramedic base pay $59,904 a year. Would you mind telling us what service you work for and where it is located? Henry Re: Shift Pay As to legalitys I do not know. But I want to vent about wages. Sorry to hijack your post. We as a profession need to start paying for every hour on duty including overtime. So many services use the we pay you $XX hour but then only pay so many hours per day or require unpaid on call time. When you add it up many end up really paying much less, sometimes even less than minimum wage. This needs to stop so our profession can advance. Advance how? By having livable wages we will be able to attract and retain people. Right now many come into EMS because they want to help people but are forced to leave because they can not survive on the low wages. Sorry for my rant. While I work for one of the better paying services ( Paramedics $18, EMT-I $15, and EMT-B $13 paid all 24 ), I see so many others still being abused. I just really want to see our profession move forward. Again sorry for the rant. I now return you to the discussion. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in over-time if its worked. > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > Thanks, > Wayne > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 8:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 No problem, Henry. I work for Pecos County EMS, previously known as Fort Stockton EMS. We get about 9 24 hour shifts every 28 days. We are in a rural area that my guess would average 5 calls per day( have not seen the numbers since we went county wide ), spread county wide and including transfers to larger hospitals. We currently staff 4 ambulances 24 hours per day. I did see an ad in the Odessa paper recently that advertised $25/hr for Paramedics, $18/hr for Intermediates. Company name was not listed and I had no interest in going to Odessa, so did not investigate. It is nice to see that some areas are starting to pay a little better. All it takes is a community getting prioritys right and money can be found. Perhaps someday we can be paid as true healthcare professionals rather than as ambulance drivers. Just my worthless opinion on things. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in > over-time if its worked. > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > Thanks, > > Wayne > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 I think that is great. I just don't see the numbers working out here in South Texas. Our guys work about 10 shifts a month on a 24/48 schedule and we do pay overtime after 40 hours a week. The base pay is right at $43,000 per year which is the norm, maybe a little high in our immediate area. We have an excellent benefit package with county retirement. $59,000 a year, man I just can't see it. We thought we made a big jump when we got our guys a raise from $38,000 to $43,000 with the base pay going up everytime a raise is given to county employees. It will take a few years to hit that $59,000 mark. I would also imangine quite a bit of airway obstruction along the way. Henry Re: Shift Pay No problem, Henry. I work for Pecos County EMS, previously known as Fort Stockton EMS. We get about 9 24 hour shifts every 28 days. We are in a rural area that my guess would average 5 calls per day( have not seen the numbers since we went county wide ), spread county wide and including transfers to larger hospitals. We currently staff 4 ambulances 24 hours per day. I did see an ad in the Odessa paper recently that advertised $25/hr for Paramedics, $18/hr for Intermediates. Company name was not listed and I had no interest in going to Odessa, so did not investigate. It is nice to see that some areas are starting to pay a little better. All it takes is a community getting prioritys right and money can be found. Perhaps someday we can be paid as true healthcare professionals rather than as ambulance drivers. Just my worthless opinion on things. Renny Spencer EMT-I Paramedic student > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is still > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure in > over-time if its worked. > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > Thanks, > > Wayne > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 We have BC/BS insurance free to employee, $55 month for family, low copays and deductables. County Retirement. Vacation, sick leave, dental, vision, and some other benefits. I have not done the math so will take your word on the $59000. Really increased recognition by our county officials of the work we do has led to the pay and benefits package. Hopefully accross the state and nation we will start to see people paid for their services. It is sad that so many in EMS require multiple jobs and/or government benefits to survive. Renny > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > still > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > in > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 I am glad to hear that progress is happening. I am greatful to the old timers at Fort Stockton that started the ball rolling. I have been a part of the transition for about a year now. Our system is not perfect but we're working on it and I'm glad to have a small part in helping it keep progressing. I do think something that helps all areas make advancement is to post the advancements made. For example posting pay rates and benefits can give reference for others to use in budget talks. We have to compete to get and retain quality people especially with the current economic boom in Texas. It is hard to keep educated people for $18/hr when an inexperienced person can start in the oilfield at much more. Now none of us expected to get rich doing EMS but we should be able to support our familys. Again just my worthless opinion. Renny > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > still > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > in > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile. > <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2008 Report Share Posted May 6, 2008 Henry and all: What would the pay be if you add in all the benefits? Reason I ask, is Tucson PD has recently been in a battle with the union over pay, with its relationship to Phoenix PD and some of the high society communities being compared as paying more. Yet, when health insurance, shift differentials, sick pay, uniform allowance, CE allowance, and all the other stuff were factored in Tucson is above the others. So that makes a difference. The fire based EMS services in those cities are approximately equal to PD, and in Tucson, it comes to just a little below $90,000 a year with everything factored in. GG > > I think that is great. I just don't see the numbers working out here in > South Texas. Our guys work about 10 shifts a month on a 24/48 schedule and we do > pay overtime after 40 hours a week. The base pay is right at $43,000 per year > which is the norm, maybe a little high in our immediate area. We have an > excellent benefit package with county retirement. $59,000 a year, man I just > can't see it. We thought we made a big jump when we got our guys a raise from > $38,000 to $43,000 with the base pay going up everytime a raise is given to > county employees. It will take a few years to hit that $59,000 mark. I would > also imangine quite a bit of airway obstruction along the way. > > Henry > Re: Shift Pay > > No problem, Henry. I work for Pecos County EMS, previously known as > Fort Stockton EMS. We get about 9 24 hour shifts every 28 days. We > are in a rural area that my guess would average 5 calls per day( have > not seen the numbers since we went county wide ), spread county wide > and including transfers to larger hospitals. We currently staff 4 > ambulances 24 hours per day. > > I did see an ad in the Odessa paper recently that advertised $25/hr > for Paramedics, $18/hr for Intermediates. Company name was not > listed and I had no interest in going to Odessa, so did not > investigate. > > It is nice to see that some areas are starting to pay a little > better. All it takes is a community getting prioritys right and > money can be found. Perhaps someday we can be paid as true > healthcare professionals rather than as ambulance drivers. > > Just my worthless opinion on things. > > Renny Spencer > EMT-I > Paramedic student > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > still > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > in > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > ____________ _ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.http://mobhttp://mobile.<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > ---------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. Renny > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > still > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > > in > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > ____________ _ > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > http://mobile.http://mobhttp://mobile.<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy groceries. GG > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > still > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > figure > > > in > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 We have got off the question, but some good points have been made. Is the " shift pay " concept legal to do? If yes, what has to be considered in the pay? Where does OT come into play? Thanks, Wayne Subject: Re: Shift Pay To: texasems-l Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 11:26 AM Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. Renny > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > still > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > > in > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > ____________ _ > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > http://mobile. http://mobhttp: //mobile.<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Dudley, you're right about bennies. They make up a significant portion of one's salary unless one works for WalMart. I said that in my first post on the subject. I applaud any business that takes care of its employees, and there ought to be " truth in salary " so that benefits would be taken into account in the advertised salary offering. What is troubling, however, about the healthcare crisis is that, insurance or not, we all end up paying for health care for everyone. We can argue about what form of reimbursement system we need, but the truth is that we as Americans will not deny medical care to anyone who needs it. The result is that one portion of the population ends up paying for the care of another portion of the population. Those who work for companies that do not provide health insurance plans, choose not to have insurance, or simply cannot pay for it, get the care anyway, and we pay for it. There will always be those who cannot pay for anything, and we will always take care of them. But the risk could be spread more equally. There is a lot of fat in healthcare, most of it in the insurance industry. Doctors make much less today in terms of spendable income than they did 50 years ago. The difference between a paramedic's salary and a board certified emergency physician's is probably not more than a ratio of 1:4 or 5. Whereas the average Captain of Industry gets 100 times the salary of a line worker. And there are other factors that we have in the southern border states: the enormous impact of illegals on the healthcare system. Within the last 30 days there have been three incidents in AZ in which more than 30 people were injured in ONE VEHICLE accidents. One had 30, and about half of them had to be hospitalized, one of which is in Phoenix in Good Sam on a respirator with a head injury at somewhere around $60,000 a day, and " THIS YEAR'S CHAMPION INCIDENT " one with 60 [count'em-sixty] folks somehow packed into one pickup that rolled on a desert road, killing 4 outright, and requiring more than 30 to be transported to area hospitals by ALL the helicopters in the area, 20 ambulances, and inundating the hospitals in Tucson, Casa Grande, and PHX with non-paying patients, some of them critical. I mention that only to illustrate that we need to find an answer to healthcare funding. Think for a minute about a situation in which ALL your assets were tied up for hours transporting a bunch of critical and 100% non-paying patients. Last, cost of living has to be taken into consideration. I expect it costs more to live in Fort Stockton than it does in Scherz. Certainly gasoline costs more and groceries cost more, but housing costs less. Everybody who puts his or her life on the line to work in EMS deserves to live a secure, comfortable life, with healthcare benefits, a retirement plan, and so forth. We should not ask anybody to work for less in a dangerous profession. [Yes, it is dangerous. When is the last time you worked a wreck and had to run for your life when some idiot refused to slow down?] This doesn't mean we're guaranteed a brand new dooley every two years, a boat, and so forth, but it ought to mean that our kids can go to college and get the kind of degree that will enable them to support us in our old age. LOL. I'm glad progress is being made, but much more is needed. GG > > No you cannot use your insurance card to buy groceries...No you cannot use > your insurance card to buy groceries...<wbr>but in today's day and age, you > have to take the time to realize what the costs of these benefits are.? When an > agency wants to do the right thing (rather it is to better compete for > employees, or to truly be a preferred emplo > > Since we are inundated about how horrible a country we live in because folks > do not have health insurance, remember that the benefits you have from your > employer at no cost to you actually carry a price tag of between 30 and 35% > of the base salary.? So, for your new paramedic making $40K, the cost is > really $54K...and although you cannot buy groceries with those benefits, your > employer is using the same type of cash to pay for those benefits as you are to > pay for your groceries. > > Here are a couple of things to ponder however...if the employer gave the > employee the cash the benefits cost and the employee had to pay for those > benefits...would they take better care of themselves and more prudently use those > benefits if they got to keep the savings? > > Secondly, what would the mall in Washington D.C. look like if companies > didn't pay your taxes for you...but gave you the money in your paycheck and you > had to pay your taxes every quarter.... > > Dudley > > Re: Re: Shift Pay > > Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify > keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy > groceries. > > GG > > > > > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > > still > > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > > figure > > > > in > > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 No you cannot use your insurance card to buy groceries...but in today's day and age, you have to take the time to realize what the costs of these benefits are.? When an agency wants to do the right thing (rather it is to better compete for employees, or to truly be a preferred employer) there are costs that MOST folks never pay attention to.? Since we are inundated about how horrible a country we live in because folks do not have health insurance, remember that the benefits you have from your employer at no cost to you actually carry a price tag of between 30 and 35% of the base salary.? So, for your new paramedic making $40K, the cost is really $54K...and although you cannot buy groceries with those benefits, your employer is using the same type of cash to pay for those benefits as you are to pay for your groceries. Here are a couple of things to ponder however...if the employer gave the employee the cash the benefits cost and the employee had to pay for those benefits...would they take better care of themselves and more prudently use those benefits if they got to keep the savings? Secondly, what would the mall in Washington D.C. look like if companies didn't pay your taxes for you...but gave you the money in your paycheck and you had to pay your taxes every quarter.... Dudley Re: Re: Shift Pay Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy groceries. GG > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > still > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > figure > > > in > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 This doesn't mean we're guaranteed a brand new dooley every two years, a boat, and so forth, Come on at least we get a boat!! Henry Re: Re: Shift Pay > > Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify > keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy > groceries. > > GG > > > > > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > > still > > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > > figure > > > > in > > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Wayne sorry I led us off track. Again I do not know about shift pay. OT is tricky. There are numerous variations as to how many hours before OT is required. The 40 hour rule does not apply to all EMS jobs. Are you private service? 40 probably applys. Are you fire EMS? 40 probably does not apply. Are you a city or county owned service? 40 probably does not apply. In labor laws there are numerous exemptions to the 40 hour rule. What is sad is each labor law " expert " you talk with at the state or federal level will give you a different interpetation of the rules. Honestly though as low paid as EMS is all hours over 40 should be over time in order to help us survive. Again just my worthless opinion. Renny > > We have got off the question, but some good points have been made. Is the " shift pay " concept legal to do? If yes, what has to be considered in the pay? Where does OT come into play? > > Thanks, > Wayne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Wayne,  What exactly are you trying to accomplish with a " shift pay " would be important to establish or define.  The best advise is to seek a legal opinion and or a payroll specialist. Although we are privileged to have a few JD types on the list I suspect they will never give advise and call it legal advise without an Attorney/Client relationship, nor am I their hired spokesman.  I'm still a Medic so what I tell you can and should not be used as legal advise and know that it is only information that was given to me by a non-attorney.  Minimum wage is $5.85 Any payment scheme you conjure up that reduces pay to below $5.85/hour would violate the Wage and Hour rules/laws. Take into consideration a person works only one 24 hour shift in a given week, that would be $140.40. If they worked two 24 hour shifts $304.20 and three 24 hour shifts in the same week $514.80 in order to prevent dropping below the Federal minimum wage rule. Check the math to confirm.  Caveat that I don't have actual knowledge, only vague recall that four and a half years ago a new Federal overtime exception was passed or I believe it passed and to my knowledge is still on the book. I don't know nor have I heard of anyone using those new rules to avoid OT payment but if those rules are available to do so, no doubt some ^$$ #*! & is doing so and an employee is accepting those wages and work conditions.  All too often when operations are paying by the shift they are up to no good. It is not uncommon for that employer to be attempting to pay the EMT as contract labor and/or other things that likely will not pass a daylight inspection.  I've known a few and heard of a lot of operations, both public and private that have gotten off track when it comes to payment schemes.  This piece of advice should prove true if you try,  and that is to " stay away from payment schemes " .  Hope that helps you and hope no EMT or Paramedic in the State is working for minimum wage, certainly not for less. bkw Re: Re: Shift Pay We have got off the question, but some good points have been made. Is the " shift pay " concept legal to do? If yes, what has to be considered in the pay? Where does OT come into play? Thanks, Wayne > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > still > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to figure > > in > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recent Activity *  5 New MembersVisit Your Group Meditation and Lovingkindness A Yahoo! Group to share and learn. Yahoo! Health Achy Joint? Common arthritis myths debunked. Yahoo! Groups Find balance between nutrition, activity & well-being. .. ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Well, yes. YOU, Henry get a boat. How else would Texas Parks and Wildlife ensure that the redfish population stayed in check? GG > > This doesn't > mean we're guaranteed a brand new dooley every two years, a boat, and so > forth, > > Come on at least we get a boat!! > > Henry > Re: Re: Shift Pay > > > > Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify > > keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy > > groceries. > > > > GG > > > > > > > > > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > > > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > > > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > > > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > > > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > > > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > > > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > > > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > > > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > > > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > > > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > > > > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > > > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > > > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > > > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > > > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > > > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > > > > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > > > > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > > > still > > > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > > > figure > > > > > in > > > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Well I certainly am not catching to many. Everyone struggles with how we pay our employees. Here in Calhoun County we pay paramedics $43,000 per year. They get paid for every hour they work at the station. Additionally we pay them a $1.00 per hour to be on call 2-3 days per month. When they are called in to work they get a minimum of 1hour overtime even if they are here for only 15minutes. The employees get two weeks vacation at the end of their first year and assorted holidays they work during that first year. It takes two holidays to equal a shift off and 5 shifts equal two weeks off. Think about this. EMS personnel want to be paid for every hour they work but still want to be paid for the vacation and holiday hours they do not work. Example in that 1 shift equal two holidays, the truth be know 1 shift actually equals three holidays. You can expand that in regards to the vacation time. We actually pay them for time they do not work. My point is that employers do attempt to be as fair as possible while trying to maintain a business. I will be the first to say that every paramedic deserves to be paid for the work they do as does any individual. Howerver, some seem to feel they are entitled just because they wear the patch. And that my friends really makes me mad. Idle threats about well such and such pays more mean nothing to me. I watch the market and do what I can for my employees when I can. Those that want to work somewhere else can do so with my blessing. Henry Re: Re: Shift Pay > > > > Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to justify > > keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy > > groceries. > > > > GG > > > > > > > > > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > > > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > > > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > > > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > > > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > > > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > > > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > > > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > > > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > > > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > > > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > > > > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > > > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > > > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > > > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > > > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > > > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > > > > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > > > > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > > > still > > > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > > > figure > > > > > in > > > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Renny, You are right, we should be paid for all hours that we work, including OT because many count on that OT to make things meet. There was a place that I worked that was a private service and just before they closed, they started paying shift pay. It came out to be well above $5.85 an hr, but OT was lost. Many of the points that were brought up in the posts were very good points. EMS has little or no benefits, especially small private providers, pay is low, hours are long, some places pay you call time and some don't, and the list goes on. Again, this was brought up because of some others issues with this former provider that some of the personnel are having with the IRS and wages turned in that the former employees where not aware of. Wayne Subject: Re: Shift Pay To: texasems-l Date: Thursday, May 8, 2008, 2:58 PM Wayne sorry I led us off track. Again I do not know about shift pay. OT is tricky. There are numerous variations as to how many hours before OT is required. The 40 hour rule does not apply to all EMS jobs. Are you private service? 40 probably applys. Are you fire EMS? 40 probably does not apply. Are you a city or county owned service? 40 probably does not apply. In labor laws there are numerous exemptions to the 40 hour rule. What is sad is each labor law " expert " you talk with at the state or federal level will give you a different interpetation of the rules. Honestly though as low paid as EMS is all hours over 40 should be over time in order to help us survive. Again just my worthless opinion. Renny > > We have got off the question, but some good points have been made. Is the " shift pay " concept legal to do? If yes, what has to be considered in the pay? Where does OT come into play? > > Thanks, > Wayne > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Congratulations are in order to Henry on the announcement of the forthcoming new EMS station. I must confess that the old one had a certain " charm " but I'll bet everybody will soon forget it. Maybe it will actually have separate bedrooms. LOL. Gene > > Well I certainly am not catching to many. > > Everyone struggles with how we pay our employees. Here in Calhoun County we > pay paramedics $43,000 per year. They get paid for every hour they work at > the station. Additionally we pay them a $1.00 per hour to be on call 2-3 days > per month. When they are called in to work they get a minimum of 1hour > overtime even if they are here for only 15minutes. > > The employees get two weeks vacation at the end of their first year and > assorted holidays they work during that first year. It takes two holidays to > equal a shift off and 5 shifts equal two weeks off. > > Think about this. EMS personnel want to be paid for every hour they work but > still want to be paid for the vacation and holiday hours they do not work. > Example in that 1 shift equal two holidays, the truth be know 1 shift actually > equals three holidays. You can expand that in regards to the vacation time. > We actually pay them for time they do not work. > > My point is that employers do attempt to be as fair as possible while trying > to maintain a business. I will be the first to say that every paramedic > deserves to be paid for the work they do as does any individual. Howerver, some > seem to feel they are entitled just because they wear the patch. And that my > friends really makes me mad. Idle threats about well such and such pays more > mean nothing to me. I watch the market and do what I can for my employees when > I can. Those that want to work somewhere else can do so with my blessing. > > Henry > Re: Re: Shift Pay > > > > > > Oh, I agree, Renny. I was just pointing out the arguments used to > justify > > > keeping wages low. You can't use your health insurance card to buy > > > groceries. > > > > > > GG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gene you are right that benefits add much to a package. But you can > > > > not support your family on the benefits so we have to address actual > > > > cash getting to our pockets first then consider the benefits. PCEMS > > > > actually has extremely good benefits so if we put numbers to it pay > > > > would be much higher, but again all the benefit money is worthless if > > > > you can not feed your family. Thankfully PCEMS has for west Texas > > > > moved wages up along with a great benefit package. Is it enough? > > > > No, we all still need more than one job to survive. But it is a > > > > start. With the drastic increases in cost of living over the last 2- > > > > 3 years pay will still have to advance more or EMS will again see > > > > more people leaving for higher paying lower stress jobs. > > > > > > > > As regards benefits I have heard many say they would rather have the > > > > cash than the benefits. Why? Because if you don't survive right now > > > > what good is the retirement? If you have good health the thought of > > > > $300 extra in your pocket each month sounds much better than a > > > > plastic card in your wallet you never use. Is that sound thinking? > > > > No, but it is what happens when you are struggling to survive today. > > > > > > > > Again sorry for my rambling worthless thoughts. > > > > > > > > Renny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that some providers still pay " shift pay " to their > > > > > > > personnel. The question has been raised as to whether this is > > > > > > still > > > > > > > legal. It's my understanding that you can, but you have to > > > > figure > > > > > > in > > > > > > > over-time if its worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the list give me their views & thoughts on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > > > > > > ____________ _ > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > > > > http://mobile.http://mobile.http://mo<whttp://mobile.<wht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > > > > > > 5/6/2008 8:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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