Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. Anybody relate? Eliza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I love this terminology, I have never heard it before. It certainly applies to my NPD father, all strangers are wonderful and he really oozes the charm on them. Plus my mother..sigh...everyone thinks she is so wonderful and sweet and harmless...only to her daughters is she judgmental, vindictive, resentful, and undermining. The whole rest of the world thinks she is a freaking saint. > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > Anybody relate? > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Sounds so familiar! Just like your mother mine is a SAINT I tell you. Last visit I had with her we were in a restaurant and the waitress had to exclaim to me how my mother (nada) was the sweetest nicest person she'd ever waited on. This was of course after days of her stretching my sanity to the limit. So you are right our crazy parents are the wonderful strangers right back at them! > > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > Eliza > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Woah, yeah - there have been a long string of " wonderful strangers " over the years. Basically, anybody who's NOT ME is just super-duper - until Nada gets to know them (and they get to know her, and tell her " no " a time or two) - and then the wonderful stranger turns into a disappointing ex-friend and Nada " just doesn't know why the friendship ended. " Sigh. So here's a current, silly example: I mentioned in an earlier (long) post that my Nada is now living in an assisted living place - much more pleasant than the Medicaid-supported nursing home I SHOULD have let them put her in - and I am footing the bills for everything that's not covered by her Social Security, Medicare, etc. So it's really a burden, financially. Plus, I spent two months of weekends and hundreds and hundreds of dollars cleaning out the hoarded mess in her apartment. Plus, I am having to rummage through the boxes of stuff I moved and retrieve whatever she wants and haul it to her every week or so. You get the picture - it's a financial burden, a gigantic drain on my time, and she continues to demand and criticize. SO - this latest set of phone messages is a request for her favorite cologne. She is convinced there was a full bottle of this stuff on her dresser (no, there were several empty bottles, which I threw away). She then leaves this message: " I'm out of this cologne, and you KNOW it's my 'signature scent' - and your husband ALWAYS got this for me for my birthday, Christmas, and Mother's Day, so I'm counting on that. " Ohhhh-kayyy... first of all, my husband may have gone to pick up a bottle of the stuff once or twice, if I gave him specific instructions on where to find it. I always paid for it, and I usually purchased it, wrapped it, and sent it myself. The gifts were NEVER just from him, but I'd put a tag on there " from all of us. " But Nada CANNOT give me credit for this. If she got a gift, it had to come from someone else. It's a small thing, and my husband and another friend who's familiar with Nada have confirmed that this is what she's doing. I know this is what she's doing. We have laughed about it. But it's bitter laughter. I keep knocking myself out for her, even though I loathe her, because it's the " right " thing to do, and there's nobody else to do it. And she gives credit to anybody, everybody else in the world. Screw you, Nada. Take a shower - you'll smell just fine. > > > > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > > > Eliza > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 For my nada most everyone she meets is a wonderful stranger. That's because she wows them with her smiles and dirty jokes (which they find hilarious in an 82 year old woman). She acts all frail and helpless and they jump to pamper her. So yes, they are all wonderful until. . . . . they get to know her a little better. Until they don't pamper her as much as she thinks they should. Until they don't have as much time to listen to her talk. Then she hates them and criticizes them all over the place. As much as it gags me to hear her rave on about the sweet mailman or cute guy across the street, I know it won't last long. In the end she always turns back to me, the ever present door mat. Now that's sad. LOL > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > Anybody relate? > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Oh Gawd - " signature scent " does that ever ring a bell - - - I call that an identity issue. The rest of us know who we are without our fav perfume, but a nada would be lost. My nada would be. But she also would change her " signature " from day to day - also an identity prob. . . . The wonderful strange - - - that is the PERFECT word! HUGS PS no need to pamper nada - she's in a home where they will look after her. Take care of YOU > ** > > > For my nada most everyone she meets is a wonderful stranger. That's because > she wows them with her smiles and dirty jokes (which they find hilarious in > an 82 year old woman). She acts all frail and helpless and they jump to > pamper her. So yes, they are all wonderful until. . . . . they get to know > her a little better. Until they don't pamper her as much as she thinks they > should. Until they don't have as much time to listen to her talk. Then she > hates them and criticizes them all over the place. > > As much as it gags me to hear her rave on about the sweet mailman or cute > guy across the street, I know it won't last long. In the end she always > turns back to me, the ever present door mat. Now that's sad. LOL > > > > > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support > boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful > stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, > sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own > children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage > of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with > living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't > talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, > her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday > with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God > every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home > and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other > hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple > conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to > listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if > anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all > the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > Eliza > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 How the hell do they manage to appear so wonderful to other people? How * do* they* do* it? *Why* do other people believe them? GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! How could my family not see she was terrifying me and beating the living sh*t out of me, when she did this for years. How could they not see she lies and lies and lies .. Why did none of my teachers ever wonder why I was not functioning well in class. The other kids knew. It was local sport to sit outside our house, under the bushes in the front yard, and listen to her beat me up, and to then, the next day in school, imitate my pleading for her to stop. She eventually figured out, that if, after she knocked me down, she jammed her knee into my sternum and leaned on it, I couldn't get enough air to scream. She liked to refer to these beatings as " going to the mat " and even bragged about it sometimes, " confidentially " to sympathetic parents of other " difficult " children as a means of " clearing the air, working things out. " What the hell was wrong with them that no-one helped me? My father knew, why didn't he help? I was so ashamed. Weirdly, although *she *could *brag *about this behavior, she would be terrified that I would tell, and actively worked to make people think I had a " big imagination " I get sick to my stomach when people gush about how much alike we are, about how we look like sisters, about how wonderful, sensitive, understanding and wise she is. Yeah, I'm lucky. God help me, It drives me to despair. Why do people fall for BPD propaganda? I think if one more person tells me how lucky I am to have such a fabulous, generous devoted, selfless and loving mother, I 'm going to implode, or fling myself down the neighbors well (figuratively speaking) During a recent illness, Nada works hard to convince me my condition is terminal, impersonates me in threatening phone calls to my medical team, and alianiates my General practitioner so badly they will no longer see me. Upon a recurrence of this medical condition, my surgeon agreed to reinstate me only after I assured his office that she would not be attending my hospital stay. However all of her friends and coworkers, (she lives in another state) all assure me how lucky I am to have a mother who cares so much, and can look after my interests. Yea. During her " care " I became so unnerved by her weirdness, ( rages and accusations that I was trying to bully her, stealth " hugs " and kisses that, due to the nature of my surgery, actually hurt. She became enraged when I asked her not to hug or kiss me yet.) that I quit taking my pain medications, so I would have a clear head when I had to deal with her .. She then tried to convince me, (and everyone else who would listen) about how paranoid I became , how I misused my pain meds, etc., giving them the impression that I was either taking taking too much, or out of my head with pain. She also had a nasty little trick of trying to get me worked up just before the home healthcare nurse was due to come check my vital signs, and then talk with her about my high blood preasure, and distraught condition. I think this borders on Munchausens disorder. But at home, they all think she " s a saint. Just shoot me. Sunspot. On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Girlscout Cowboy < girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote: > Oh Gawd - " signature scent " does that ever ring a bell - - - I call that an > identity issue. The rest of us know who we are without our fav perfume, but > a nada would be lost. My nada would be. But she also would change her > " signature " from day to day - also an identity prob. . . . > > The wonderful strange - - - that is the PERFECT word! > > HUGS > > PS no need to pamper nada - she's in a home where they will look after her. > Take care of YOU > > > > > ** > > > > > > For my nada most everyone she meets is a wonderful stranger. That's > because > > she wows them with her smiles and dirty jokes (which they find hilarious > in > > an 82 year old woman). She acts all frail and helpless and they jump to > > pamper her. So yes, they are all wonderful until. . . . . they get to > know > > her a little better. Until they don't pamper her as much as she thinks > they > > should. Until they don't have as much time to listen to her talk. Then > she > > hates them and criticizes them all over the place. > > > > As much as it gags me to hear her rave on about the sweet mailman or cute > > guy across the street, I know it won't last long. In the end she always > > turns back to me, the ever present door mat. Now that's sad. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding > support > > boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The > wonderful > > stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, > > sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own > > children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take > advantage > > of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with > > living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she > can't > > talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had > it, > > her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday > > with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to > God > > every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her > home > > and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other > > hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple > > conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to > > listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if > > anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue > all > > the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > > > Eliza > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yes, I can relate. And that is a great term, very appropriate. My nada would go on and on about other people's children or my cousins, and how successful/beautiful/accomplished/smart they were, and this started in my childhood. It would make me very jealous and hurt my feelings, and reinforced to me that I just wasn't good enough. These days my nada tends to find males to be her " wonderful stranger. " If any of the men around her apartment complex or her church show her any attention, she is more than willing to invite them in, feed them, give them money, etc. I think it is very consistent with the borderline pd trait of black-and-white thinking, or alternately idealizing someone and then denigrating and rejecting them. Others are " all good " or " all bad " , depending on how nada feels about them or about herself at the moment. -Annie > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > Anybody relate? > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Your mother wasn't parenting you, she was brutalizing you, and she apparently enjoyed it. That's just so depraved. I wish you could have been rescued from that childhood of physical and emotional torture, it was a crime that you weren't. If a male had done that to his daughter or son, there probably would have been some intervention, somehow, but it seems mothers can get away with practically anything. In my opinion your nada was clearly way too mentally ill to have been raising a child, and yet she was able to present a charming mask of sanity and normality in public. That makes me think she is probably a psychopath. The books " The Mask of Sanity " and " The Sociopath Next Door " are about such " garden variety " psychopaths, the ones who never make headlines but who nevertheless take pleasure in manipulating, controlling and hurting those they can, when they can get away with it. If you haven't watched this documentary, it will give you a real eyefull and earfull of how psychopaths think and behave. Its very chilling. Its called " I, Psychopath. " http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/ This is the full-length version of this documentary, and its much more revealing than the edited version I posted links to in earlier years. I think the children of the very high-functioning borderline/narcissistic/antisocial pd / psychopathic pd mother are basically screwed. Other adults don't want to believe that a mother can target her own child for psychological and physical torture such as you and others here have described, particularly when that mother can appear charmingly appealing, rational, sane and articulate in public. Add in great physical beauty, great wealth, great intelligence and ambition, great personal achievement, or public acclaim/celebrity on the part of the pd mother and the child of such a monster has no chance at all: an ice-cube's chance in hell of being believed or rescued. Crawford finally was believed though, by a lot of people. She wrote " Mommy, Dearest " to purge herself of her childhood damage inflicted by her famous adoptive mother Joan Crawford, and speak the truth about the horror of unchallenged parental emotional and physical abuse. The book has been recommended at the Adult Child of Narcissistic PD Parents group I also belong to; much more thorough and detailed and insightful than the film. -Annie > > > > > > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding > > support > > > boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The > > wonderful > > > stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, > > > sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own > > > children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take > > advantage > > > of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with > > > living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she > > can't > > > talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had > > it, > > > her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday > > > with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to > > God > > > every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her > > home > > > and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other > > > hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple > > > conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to > > > listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if > > > anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue > > all > > > the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > > > > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > > > > > Eliza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yes--not only has my nada had a string of 'wonderful strangers,' but now she's got fada going on about these people as well. During her working years the stranger was usually a young woman about my age that she worked with. She would go on and on about her friendship with them--how she helped them attain their goals, or go on about their boyfriend/career choice/school goals. So many times she would try to encourage me to go after the same things the wonderful stranger did/had. Now her wonderful strangers are her real estate agent & wife that live across the street (I think this relationship is waning--I think they are crooks, too) and my dad's audiologist. She goes on for hours about the wonders of these people. Nada signed her mineral rights away after a 4 hour meeting in her house with one of these wonderful people. All they have to be is flashy and successful or young and vulnerable to get her interest in them piqued. Occasionally these people become close enough to become dinner party guests, but not usually. She rarely forms relationships with people her own age or social status. Some are just bizarre attachments. She also assigns more emotional attachment/importance to the stranger than bears out to be true on stranger's end of the relationship. Years ago these thinly veiled comparisons to me used to hurt me and piss me off. OK--they still piss me off, but I see them for the shallow fantasies they are now and that helps me to keep perspective. > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > Anybody relate? > > Eliza > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 > ** > > > Yes--not only has my nada had a string of 'wonderful strangers,' but now > she's got fada going on about these people as well. During her working years > the stranger was usually a young woman about my age that she worked with. > She would go on and on about her friendship with them--how she helped them > attain their goals, or go on about their boyfriend/career choice/school > goals. So many times she would try to encourage me to go after the same > things the wonderful stranger did/had. > Wow - amazing - my nada had a string of these " wonderful strangers " too. When I was a child, she would constantly go on and on about how perfect and good and beautiful and smart this or that friend of mine was. And if I did something that displeased her, she would tell me how, oh, little would NEVER do anything like that because little was GOOD. I remember there was this one little girl in my class who my mother was just crazy about, basically because of her golden curls, and she'd go on and on about her beauty and specialness. Actually this little girl and I didn't particularly get along, but my nada literally pushed us to spend time together, and if I dared to say I didn't want to play with this child any more, I would get raked through the coals. This child had an extremely mean streak, and would say and do nasty things to me, and when I cried, my mother would run in and I would be the one that got yelled at, and I'd get punished after the visit. Then there were friends of mine who my nada HATED, for really ridiculous reasons. She HATED my best friend, who was an incredibly nice, kind person (and still is as an adult) because she was chubby. She HATED another friend of mine because she wore dresses nada didn't like. The character of a person didn't seem to matter to nada at all. > > > She rarely forms relationships with people her own age or social status. > Some are just bizarre attachments. She also assigns more emotional > attachment/importance to the stranger than bears out to be true on > stranger's end of the relationship. > When I was a teenager, my nada worked as a legal secretary and every time a new young secretary got hired, my nada would glom onto her, and become her best friend, or at least try to. She'd call the young woman (all of them were in their early 20s and nada was in her 50s) and keep them on the phone for hours. After each phone call, I'd have to listen to nada extol the glories of this young woman. Nada would invite her to dinner and I'd be nice and polite, but I could never figure out what was so wonderful about any of the young women. I'd always feel queasy and uncomfortable when I was around nada and her chosen young woman, but didn't know why. These relationships never lasted long. Nada would also get extremely upset when I didn't want her to hang out with me and my friends. Many times I'd be visiting with a friend in my room and nada would come in and just plop down and start monopolizing the conversation, making all sorts of inappropriate comments and asking unbelievably inappropriate questions. It got to the point where most of my friends didn't want to visit me anymore. There was one especially horrible incident where a boy I had a HUGE crush on came to visit me, and of course I was thrilled out of my mind. We were playing the piano in my room, and nada barged in and took over. It wasn't that she was afraid the boy and I were doing anything sexual. It was just that she HAD to be included. And she just talked and talked, and said things that embarrassed both me and this boy, and she actually demanded he hug her, and her hugs weren't " normal " hugs - she'd GRAB and hang on so hard that it hurt, and wouldn't let you go - and the poor boy endured that, and then made an excuse and ran out of there. And he never visited me again. Nor was my crush on him ever requited. Oh, also, nada would hold up my cousin to me as " Mr. Perfect. " She would actually say, " Why can't you be like your cousin? " My cousin was, and still is, impressive as hell - he has an IQ off the charts, he's a world-renowned classical musician, he's highly charismatic, he's handsome, and he has tons of material wealth. No matter what I did, I COULDN'T be like my cousin. And believe me, I tried. So he was the Supreme Golden Child, as I had no siblings, and the upshot of all that is, well, she turned him completely against me, convincing him that I was a drug addict and alcoholic (I never took drugs or drank), that my depression and eating disorder were nothing more than fakery, and that I was a pathological liar. So now I have no family whatsoever, which breaks my heart, as I have always and always will love my cousin very much. Thanks for reading this. Judy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Annie, this 'Sam' is like watching one of my old bosses in action. His mannerisms, deceptions, pushing off the blame, redirecting, etc., are so like him. All the slight of hand tactics he used to keep us all enthralled until one by broken one we left his office, ashamed to be carrying our surfaced childhood pain/shame around our necks like chained dogs. The film says 1 in 100 people have traits fitting psychopathy, but I think the ones as special as Sam come along less frequently, thank god. Thank you for sharing~ > > Your mother wasn't parenting you, she was brutalizing you, and she apparently enjoyed it. That's just so depraved. I wish you could have been rescued from that childhood of physical and emotional torture, it was a crime that you weren't. If a male had done that to his daughter or son, there probably would have been some intervention, somehow, but it seems mothers can get away with practically anything. > > In my opinion your nada was clearly way too mentally ill to have been raising a child, and yet she was able to present a charming mask of sanity and normality in public. That makes me think she is probably a psychopath. The books " The Mask of Sanity " and " The Sociopath Next Door " are about such " garden variety " psychopaths, the ones who never make headlines but who nevertheless take pleasure in manipulating, controlling and hurting those they can, when they can get away with it. > > If you haven't watched this documentary, it will give you a real eyefull and earfull of how psychopaths think and behave. Its very chilling. Its called " I, Psychopath. " > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/ > > This is the full-length version of this documentary, and its much more revealing than the edited version I posted links to in earlier years. > > I think the children of the very high-functioning borderline/narcissistic/antisocial pd / psychopathic pd mother are basically screwed. Other adults don't want to believe that a mother can target her own child for psychological and physical torture such as you and others here have described, particularly when that mother can appear charmingly appealing, rational, sane and articulate in public. > > Add in great physical beauty, great wealth, great intelligence and ambition, great personal achievement, or public acclaim/celebrity on the part of the pd mother and the child of such a monster has no chance at all: an ice-cube's chance in hell of being believed or rescued. > > Crawford finally was believed though, by a lot of people. She wrote " Mommy, Dearest " to purge herself of her childhood damage inflicted by her famous adoptive mother Joan Crawford, and speak the truth about the horror of unchallenged parental emotional and physical abuse. The book has been recommended at the Adult Child of Narcissistic PD Parents group I also belong to; much more thorough and detailed and insightful than the film. > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Wow Sunspot, that is extreme - I hope you are able to be NC? She has no right to be anywhere near you. That she could pull off the sweet concerned mother act and act that evil to you speaks of sociopathy to me. I also have people tell me we look and talk alike, how lucky I am etc. throughout my life (including random people like that waitress)...I'm with ya it makes me want to run off screaming too. In a light random story, one time someone dabbling in astrology announced that my and my nada's horoscopes were exactly alike. This of course pleased my nada but it filled me with a sense of horror - like is anything mine, do I get to have any identity at all? I later learned enough about astrology to do it myself and no, not by any stretch of the imagination are they just alike - the woman obviously made a mistake just accidentally copied the wrong thing. Eliza > > How the hell do they manage to appear so wonderful to other people? How * > do* they* do* it? *Why* do other people believe them? GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! > How could my family not see she was terrifying me and beating the living > sh*t out of me, when she did this for years. How could they not see she > lies and lies and lies > . > Why did none of my teachers ever wonder why I was not functioning well in > class. The other kids knew. It was local sport to sit outside our house, > under the bushes in the front yard, and listen to her beat me up, and to > then, the next day in school, imitate my pleading for her to stop. > She eventually figured out, that if, after she knocked me down, she > jammed her knee into my sternum and leaned on it, I couldn't get enough air > to scream. She liked to refer to these beatings as " going to the mat " and > even bragged about it sometimes, " confidentially " to sympathetic parents of > other " difficult " children as a means of " clearing the air, working things > out. " What the hell was wrong with them that no-one helped me? My father > knew, why didn't he help? I was so ashamed. > > Weirdly, although *she *could *brag *about this behavior, she would be > terrified that I would tell, and actively worked to make people think I had > a " big imagination " > I get sick to my stomach when people gush about how much alike we are, > about how we look like sisters, about how wonderful, sensitive, > understanding and wise she is. Yeah, I'm lucky. God help me, > It drives me to despair. > Why do people fall for BPD propaganda? > I think if one more person tells me how lucky I am to have such a > fabulous, generous devoted, selfless and loving mother, I 'm going to > implode, or fling myself down the neighbors well (figuratively speaking) > > During a recent illness, Nada works hard to convince me my condition is > terminal, impersonates me in threatening phone calls to my medical team, and > alianiates my General practitioner so badly they will no longer see me. > > Upon a recurrence of this medical condition, my surgeon agreed to > reinstate me only after I assured his office that she would not be attending > my hospital stay. > However all of her friends and coworkers, (she lives in another state) all > assure me how lucky I am to have a mother who cares so much, and can look > after my interests. Yea. During her " care " I became so unnerved by her > weirdness, ( rages and accusations that I was trying to bully her, stealth > " hugs " and kisses that, due to the nature of my surgery, actually hurt. She > became enraged when I asked her not to hug or kiss me yet.) that I quit > taking my pain medications, so I would have a clear head when I had to deal > with her > . > She then tried to convince me, (and everyone else who would listen) about > how paranoid I became , how I misused my pain meds, etc., giving them the > impression that I was either taking taking too much, or out of my head with > pain. > > She also had a nasty little trick of trying to get me worked up just > before the home healthcare nurse was due to come check my vital signs, and > then talk with her about my high blood preasure, and distraught condition. > I think this borders on Munchausens disorder. > But at home, they all think she " s a saint. > Just shoot me. > Sunspot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Annie, you beat me to it! I had sociopath bells ringing in my head reading Sunspot's story. I guess really any nada who can put on the sane face in public and abuse their kid in private has some socipathy, it's just a matter of degree. Makes me think about that study you posted a while back about Cluster B's all having some sociopathy. I remember that doc from a couple years ago - there's more stuff in it now? Maybe I'll rewatch when I'm feeling bold - the guy reminds me of my father so it really creeps me out. Eliza > > Your mother wasn't parenting you, she was brutalizing you, and she apparently enjoyed it. That's just so depraved. I wish you could have been rescued from that childhood of physical and emotional torture, it was a crime that you weren't. If a male had done that to his daughter or son, there probably would have been some intervention, somehow, but it seems mothers can get away with practically anything. > > In my opinion your nada was clearly way too mentally ill to have been raising a child, and yet she was able to present a charming mask of sanity and normality in public. That makes me think she is probably a psychopath. The books " The Mask of Sanity " and " The Sociopath Next Door " are about such " garden variety " psychopaths, the ones who never make headlines but who nevertheless take pleasure in manipulating, controlling and hurting those they can, when they can get away with it. > > If you haven't watched this documentary, it will give you a real eyefull and earfull of how psychopaths think and behave. Its very chilling. Its called " I, Psychopath. " > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/ > > This is the full-length version of this documentary, and its much more revealing than the edited version I posted links to in earlier years. > > I think the children of the very high-functioning borderline/narcissistic/antisocial pd / psychopathic pd mother are basically screwed. Other adults don't want to believe that a mother can target her own child for psychological and physical torture such as you and others here have described, particularly when that mother can appear charmingly appealing, rational, sane and articulate in public. > > Add in great physical beauty, great wealth, great intelligence and ambition, great personal achievement, or public acclaim/celebrity on the part of the pd mother and the child of such a monster has no chance at all: an ice-cube's chance in hell of being believed or rescued. > > Crawford finally was believed though, by a lot of people. She wrote " Mommy, Dearest " to purge herself of her childhood damage inflicted by her famous adoptive mother Joan Crawford, and speak the truth about the horror of unchallenged parental emotional and physical abuse. The book has been recommended at the Adult Child of Narcissistic PD Parents group I also belong to; much more thorough and detailed and insightful than the film. > > -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Echo, it helps hear about your nada - I guess I've had it " easy " most of my life in that my nada is an extreme hermit. She rarely ever had anyone else to yammer on about at me - which was bad since it put more intensity on her focus on me. But yet at least I didn't have to witness her dysfunction in action with other people. I like what you said here " I see them for the shallow fantasies they are now and that helps me to keep perspective. " I will try to do this, thanks! Eliza > > Yes--not only has my nada had a string of 'wonderful strangers,' but now she's got fada going on about these people as well. During her working years the stranger was usually a young woman about my age that she worked with. She would go on and on about her friendship with them--how she helped them attain their goals, or go on about their boyfriend/career choice/school goals. So many times she would try to encourage me to go after the same things the wonderful stranger did/had. > > Now her wonderful strangers are her real estate agent & wife that live across the street (I think this relationship is waning--I think they are crooks, too) and my dad's audiologist. She goes on for hours about the wonders of these people. Nada signed her mineral rights away after a 4 hour meeting in her house with one of these wonderful people. All they have to be is flashy and successful or young and vulnerable to get her interest in them piqued. > > Occasionally these people become close enough to become dinner party guests, but not usually. > > She rarely forms relationships with people her own age or social status. Some are just bizarre attachments. She also assigns more emotional attachment/importance to the stranger than bears out to be true on stranger's end of the relationship. > > Years ago these thinly veiled comparisons to me used to hurt me and piss me off. OK--they still piss me off, but I see them for the shallow fantasies they are now and that helps me to keep perspective. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 My stepmother is the same way. She would be all wonderful in public, and when we were behind closed doors, she was almost always mean. She made sure, and still does, that she's the perfect mom, wife, Christian, etc. She had her good moments, but they were always few and far between. Even now, I am sure she's telling people she's the victim, and I am the horrible stepdaughter. I am slowly learning to let it all go.  She and my dad aren't worth the effort right now.  I know I need to worry about living my life, not theirs. Janet  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.  Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.  It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Proverbs 3:5-8 To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: the wonderful stranger  Wow Sunspot, that is extreme - I hope you are able to be NC? She has no right to be anywhere near you. That she could pull off the sweet concerned mother act and act that evil to you speaks of sociopathy to me. I also have people tell me we look and talk alike, how lucky I am etc. throughout my life (including random people like that waitress)...I'm with ya it makes me want to run off screaming too. In a light random story, one time someone dabbling in astrology announced that my and my nada's horoscopes were exactly alike. This of course pleased my nada but it filled me with a sense of horror - like is anything mine, do I get to have any identity at all? I later learned enough about astrology to do it myself and no, not by any stretch of the imagination are they just alike - the woman obviously made a mistake just accidentally copied the wrong thing. Eliza > > How the hell do they manage to appear so wonderful to other people? How * > do* they* do* it? *Why* do other people believe them? GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! > How could my family not see she was terrifying me and beating the living > sh*t out of me, when she did this for years. How could they not see she > lies and lies and lies > . > Why did none of my teachers ever wonder why I was not functioning well in > class. The other kids knew. It was local sport to sit outside our house, > under the bushes in the front yard, and listen to her beat me up, and to > then, the next day in school, imitate my pleading for her to stop. > She eventually figured out, that if, after she knocked me down, she > jammed her knee into my sternum and leaned on it, I couldn't get enough air > to scream. She liked to refer to these beatings as " going to the mat " and > even bragged about it sometimes, " confidentially " to sympathetic parents of > other " difficult " children as a means of " clearing the air, working things > out. " What the hell was wrong with them that no-one helped me? My father > knew, why didn't he help? I was so ashamed. > > Weirdly, although *she *could *brag *about this behavior, she would be > terrified that I would tell, and actively worked to make people think I had > a " big imagination " > I get sick to my stomach when people gush about how much alike we are, > about how we look like sisters, about how wonderful, sensitive, > understanding and wise she is. Yeah, I'm lucky. God help me, > It drives me to despair. > Why do people fall for BPD propaganda? > I think if one more person tells me how lucky I am to have such a > fabulous, generous devoted, selfless and loving mother, I 'm going to > implode, or fling myself down the neighbors well (figuratively speaking) > > During a recent illness, Nada works hard to convince me my condition is > terminal, impersonates me in threatening phone calls to my medical team, and > alianiates my General practitioner so badly they will no longer see me. > > Upon a recurrence of this medical condition, my surgeon agreed to > reinstate me only after I assured his office that she would not be attending > my hospital stay. > However all of her friends and coworkers, (she lives in another state) all > assure me how lucky I am to have a mother who cares so much, and can look > after my interests. Yea. During her " care " I became so unnerved by her > weirdness, ( rages and accusations that I was trying to bully her, stealth > " hugs " and kisses that, due to the nature of my surgery, actually hurt. She > became enraged when I asked her not to hug or kiss me yet.) that I quit > taking my pain medications, so I would have a clear head when I had to deal > with her > . > She then tried to convince me, (and everyone else who would listen) about > how paranoid I became , how I misused my pain meds, etc., giving them the > impression that I was either taking taking too much, or out of my head with > pain. > > She also had a nasty little trick of trying to get me worked up just > before the home healthcare nurse was due to come check my vital signs, and > then talk with her about my high blood preasure, and distraught condition. > I think this borders on Munchausens disorder. > But at home, they all think she " s a saint. > Just shoot me. > Sunspot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 i can really relate. my mother puts one person at a time on a pedestal. it is a relief in a sense because she is focussing her obsessive attention on them instead of me. BUT, i know the end is coming. she wears people to a frazzle and finally they have to bolt. then nada's borderline traits seem to escalate...triggered by the abandonment. then, i will get months and months of listening to her criticize and insult the person (who isn't even in her life anymore). i have watched this happen over and over and over. my mother doesn't have relationships with anyone that last longer than a couple of years....except me. On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:11 AM, eliza92@... < eliza92@...> wrote: > ** > > > " The wonderful stranger " is a term I first heard on the hoarding support > boards. I was wondering if it applies in general to BPD nadas. The wonderful > stranger is a person that a nada meets who she idealizes and pours love, > sympathy, and respect on - FAR MORE than she would ever do for her own > children or family. Sometimes they will allow this person to take advantage > of them. Right now the helper I arranged for her to hire to help her with > living independently has become the wonderful stranger. Suddenly she can't > talk enough about Sue, how wonderful she is, how hard in life she's had it, > her insomnia, hell she even wants to help her celebrate her dogs birthday > with treats! On the one hand I know that I need to be saying thanks to God > every day that my nada has accepted this woman, will allow her in her home > and because of this the burden on me is lifted somewhat. But on the other > hand after having to listen to her go on about Sue for multiple > conversations now...what can I say, it burns. Now not only do I have to > listen to my nada go on endlessly about herself and change the subject if > anything important about me comes up, I also have to hear about poor Sue all > the time. So Sue has " wonderful stranger " status with my nada. > > Anybody relate? > > Eliza > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Well, your 'perfect' cousin is apparently a dolt because he can't see past your nada's lies. And if you had had a supportive parent instead of a toxic witch, I am sure your life would not have been different. I am continually amazed and grateful when I read how alike our nadas are. I never imagined I would share this type of kinship with anyone, let alone scores of others. Being so full of FLEAS as a young adult, I was in my 30's before starting to question the parenting of my youth. I often wonder how different life would have been if I hadn't had FOG and nada's fleas around my neck. > > > ** > > > > > > Yes--not only has my nada had a string of 'wonderful strangers,' but now > > she's got fada going on about these people as well. During her working years > > the stranger was usually a young woman about my age that she worked with. > > She would go on and on about her friendship with them--how she helped them > > attain their goals, or go on about their boyfriend/career choice/school > > goals. So many times she would try to encourage me to go after the same > > things the wonderful stranger did/had. > > > Wow - amazing - my nada had a string of these " wonderful strangers " too. > When I was a child, she would constantly go on and on about how perfect and > good and beautiful and smart this or that friend of mine was. And if I did > something that displeased her, she would tell me how, oh, little would > NEVER do anything like that because little was GOOD. I remember there > was this one little girl in my class who my mother was just crazy about, > basically because of her golden curls, and she'd go on and on about her > beauty and specialness. Actually this little girl and I didn't particularly > get along, but my nada literally pushed us to spend time together, and if I > dared to say I didn't want to play with this child any more, I would get > raked through the coals. This child had an extremely mean streak, and would > say and do nasty things to me, and when I cried, my mother would run in and > I would be the one that got yelled at, and I'd get punished after the visit. > Then there were friends of mine who my nada HATED, for really ridiculous > reasons. She HATED my best friend, who was an incredibly nice, kind person > (and still is as an adult) because she was chubby. She HATED another friend > of mine because she wore dresses nada didn't like. The character of a person > didn't seem to matter to nada at all. > > > > > > > She rarely forms relationships with people her own age or social status. > > Some are just bizarre attachments. She also assigns more emotional > > attachment/importance to the stranger than bears out to be true on > > stranger's end of the relationship. > > > When I was a teenager, my nada worked as a legal secretary and every time a > new young secretary got hired, my nada would glom onto her, and become her > best friend, or at least try to. She'd call the young woman (all of them > were in their early 20s and nada was in her 50s) and keep them on the phone > for hours. After each phone call, I'd have to listen to nada extol the > glories of this young woman. Nada would invite her to dinner and I'd be nice > and polite, but I could never figure out what was so wonderful about any of > the young women. I'd always feel queasy and uncomfortable when I was around > nada and her chosen young woman, but didn't know why. These relationships > never lasted long. > > Nada would also get extremely upset when I didn't want her to hang out with > me and my friends. Many times I'd be visiting with a friend in my room and > nada would come in and just plop down and start monopolizing the > conversation, making all sorts of inappropriate comments and asking > unbelievably inappropriate questions. It got to the point where most of my > friends didn't want to visit me anymore. There was one especially horrible > incident where a boy I had a HUGE crush on came to visit me, and of course I > was thrilled out of my mind. We were playing the piano in my room, and nada > barged in and took over. It wasn't that she was afraid the boy and I were > doing anything sexual. It was just that she HAD to be included. And she just > talked and talked, and said things that embarrassed both me and this boy, > and she actually demanded he hug her, and her hugs weren't " normal " hugs - > she'd GRAB and hang on so hard that it hurt, and wouldn't let you go - and > the poor boy endured that, and then made an excuse and ran out of there. And > he never visited me again. Nor was my crush on him ever requited. > > Oh, also, nada would hold up my cousin to me as " Mr. Perfect. " She would > actually say, " Why can't you be like your cousin? " My cousin was, and still > is, impressive as hell - he has an IQ off the charts, he's a world-renowned > classical musician, he's highly charismatic, he's handsome, and he has tons > of material wealth. No matter what I did, I COULDN'T be like my cousin. And > believe me, I tried. So he was the Supreme Golden Child, as I had no > siblings, and the upshot of all that is, well, she turned him completely > against me, convincing him that I was a drug addict and alcoholic (I never > took drugs or drank), that my depression and eating disorder were nothing > more than fakery, and that I was a pathological liar. So now I have no > family whatsoever, which breaks my heart, as I have always and always will > love my cousin very much. > > Thanks for reading this. > Judy > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 KF, yes it's the " obsessive attention " that's so disturbing to watch. I can see her trying to enmesh and consume this person while also idealizing her and it is triggering as hell. > > i can really relate. my mother puts one person at a time on a pedestal. it > is a relief in a sense because she is focussing her obsessive attention on > them instead of me. BUT, i know the end is coming. she wears people to a > frazzle and finally they have to bolt. then nada's borderline traits seem > to escalate...triggered by the abandonment. then, i will get months and > months of listening to her criticize and insult the person (who isn't even > in her life anymore). i have watched this happen over and over and over. > my mother doesn't have relationships with anyone that last longer than a > couple of years....except me. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 ohh yes. have you ever tried to explain that to someone who doesn't have a nada? i have fumbled for the words and said " it is like my mother is trying to devour me " the person clearly had no idea what that could even mean. <<crickets>> .... the greatest thing about this list is that we are not alone in this anymore! On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:46 PM, eliza92@... < eliza92@...> wrote: > ** > > > KF, yes it's the " obsessive attention " that's so disturbing to watch. I can > see her trying to enmesh and consume this person while also idealizing her > and it is triggering as hell. > > > > > > i can really relate. my mother puts one person at a time on a pedestal. > it > > is a relief in a sense because she is focussing her obsessive attention > on > > them instead of me. BUT, i know the end is coming. she wears people to a > > frazzle and finally they have to bolt. then nada's borderline traits seem > > to escalate...triggered by the abandonment. then, i will get months and > > months of listening to her criticize and insult the person (who isn't > even > > in her life anymore). i have watched this happen over and over and over. > > my mother doesn't have relationships with anyone that last longer than a > > couple of years....except me. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.