the night of my brother's film screening

[Guest guest]

It didn't rain, she came along with us and did what I expected her to do. Freak

out, audibly brace herself when a big bus or truck was next to the car, ask me

in Spanish if my husband knew where he was going, who gave him directions, are

we almost there, why is it taking so long; muttering out loud 'i don't know why

I came tonight, blah blah. " I mean, I see that she has intense anxiety and

agoraphobia to an extent. If she's out of her comfort zone, she becomes mean...

Actually, the car ride was wonderful compared to what happened after we got

there. We arrived very early and my kids and husband were hungry. When we told

her we were going to stop to eat (in walking distance from the studio where the

screening was) she flipped. " EAT?? why? " (In other words, " if I'M not hungry, I

don't see why we should stop to eat. " ) I explained why and she walked behind us

in her waify, martyr-y body language until we got to a little Greek restaurant.

We sat down and the server put olives on the table. I reached for one. I love

olives. She starts. " Yeeah, eat olives! You know what they do to your blood

pressure. " Now in writing, that doesn't sound so awful. I don't know what it is

about the way she says things that makes me want to throw a glass of water in

her face. I answered her in an almost kidding way, because I didn't want to

start scolding her so early in the evening. I said, " Mom. Stop. OK? Please

stop. "

Well, that was that for her. Waif hat came off. Witch hat came on. She starts

muttering under her breath. " you'll see what it's like to be old. YOUR kids will

reject YOU. " Then she accused my 6 yo of being rude to her, she refused to order

anything and just sat there like a stupid statue.

My husband tried to engage her but she just kept saying, " she told me not to

talk, so - I'm not talking. " I answered her as calmly as I could, " I did not

tell you to not talk. I told you to please not tell me to not eat olives. I am

43. I know about the salt in olives. You can talk if you like. " But she kept

her pout firmly on her stupid old face.

We got to my brother's screening, which was super. We met many of his friends,

saw old friends, it was a lot of fun. I have to say, I was proud of myself for

not allowing her -- as was the case in the past -- to affect my evening. I still

had fun, I still laughed and showed my kids off to my brother's friends.

The one point where she got to me was when my 6 yo (and it seems she was picking

on her b/c she's most vulnerable; my 13 yo and my husband would have ignored her

and walked away but my little one can't, so the bitch picked on her) was eating

a 2nd cupcake. She is a little chubby. She is a beautiful, sweet, funny,

fantastic person. But the bitch couldn't resist and said, " another cupcake??? "

with a look of disgust on her face.

My 6 yo looked SO, so hurt. She kept looking back at my mother with surprise

and again, hurt. She said, " what's wrong with Grandma? " I said, " sweetie, I

think Grannie is determined to be unhappy. And she doesn't like to see anyone

else be happy, either. Please just enjoy your cupcake. "

I didn't confront my mother there b/c I didn't want to make a scene at the

expense of my brother's night. I did tell my husband later and he assured me I

didn't need to say anything to my mother, that he would take care of it. (my

mother is terrified of my husband b/c he isn't afraid to say hard things to her.

He doesn't yell or get in her face. He just won't be manipulated by her and she

can't stand it.)

So, two questions I have:

1) why does her telling me not to eat olives still bug me? It bugs me that she

tells my brother not to let anyone bring wine to his own party. He's almost 50.

He knows about alcohol. Why does it bother me so much??? I just feel an

injustice about it.

2) I am not calling her. We have been LC (30 second call once a day and 1 1/2

hour visit once a week--for ME, that's LC; isn't that funny??) for quite a

while. And that's too much. I do not want to talk to her again until she

apologizes. She acted like an ass and like even more of a child than the kids

that were there. I'm not sure how to phrase this question: what can I do now

during my NC time with her -- and I know it's not for forever, we are going to

be in contact again at some point; we live within blocks of each other -- but

for now, how can I make myself even stronger, more resilient in dealing with

her, what can I ask my therapist about to gird me for the next time this

happens? Or is that not possible?

Thanks for listening!

Fiona

[Guest guest]

I think that was a superb answer to your child about the statement about the

cupcakes. and its a testament to how well you have protected her that she asked

out loud 'what's wrong with grandma' because is shows she doesn't understand and

isn't used to the behavior, which is a good thing.

I can see that the problem would be that when you go LC/NC you become more and

more of a human being and have normal pain reactions when people are trying to

hurt you, i.e. you get healthier. I am not sure you can make yourself impervious

to the pain she causes, nor should you want to. It's actually a good thing, I

think, that you know what is behind all of her behavior is she is trying to hurt

you. She has inner hurt she can't deal with, so she is trying to spread it

around. She thinks subconsciously, I guess, that if she gets the focus on her,

something will fix her insides. Talk about cutting her nose off to spite her

face.

I think NC is about all you do probably, and try to determine the length of time

and circumstances where you can 'handle' being exposed to her, if you are LC.

For instance I am exposed to both parents so I am loathe to give anyone advice,

but I don't go anywhere with my fada in public, EVER. I have been to a couple

weddings, where I could get far, far away from him, but I don't go to parties or

restaurants where I will be seated or trapped in a room with him. I know he will

attack me, just like your nada did you. Next time you can tell your brother,

'she's YOUR nada, if you want her at the event, YOU handle it. I'm done.'

Because at this point, she's beginning to attack the kids (I am using that word

more in the sense of an energy attack rather than physical, or maybe

psychological is the word, trying to do damage to their spirit or energy field)

and nothing is worth the risk of her actually landing some verbal punches that

inflict lasting damage.

>

> It didn't rain, she came along with us and did what I expected her to do.

Freak out, audibly brace herself when a big bus or truck was next to the car,

ask me in Spanish if my husband knew where he was going, who gave him

directions, are we almost there, why is it taking so long; muttering out loud 'i

don't know why I came tonight, blah blah. " I mean, I see that she has intense

anxiety and agoraphobia to an extent. If she's out of her comfort zone, she

becomes mean...

>

> Actually, the car ride was wonderful compared to what happened after we got

there. We arrived very early and my kids and husband were hungry. When we told

her we were going to stop to eat (in walking distance from the studio where the

screening was) she flipped. " EAT?? why? " (In other words, " if I'M not hungry, I

don't see why we should stop to eat. " ) I explained why and she walked behind us

in her waify, martyr-y body language until we got to a little Greek restaurant.

>

> We sat down and the server put olives on the table. I reached for one. I love

olives. She starts. " Yeeah, eat olives! You know what they do to your blood

pressure. " Now in writing, that doesn't sound so awful. I don't know what it is

about the way she says things that makes me want to throw a glass of water in

her face. I answered her in an almost kidding way, because I didn't want to

start scolding her so early in the evening. I said, " Mom. Stop. OK? Please

stop. "

>

> Well, that was that for her. Waif hat came off. Witch hat came on. She starts

muttering under her breath. " you'll see what it's like to be old. YOUR kids will

reject YOU. " Then she accused my 6 yo of being rude to her, she refused to order

anything and just sat there like a stupid statue.

>

> My husband tried to engage her but she just kept saying, " she told me not to

talk, so - I'm not talking. " I answered her as calmly as I could, " I did not

tell you to not talk. I told you to please not tell me to not eat olives. I am

43. I know about the salt in olives. You can talk if you like. " But she kept

her pout firmly on her stupid old face.

>

> We got to my brother's screening, which was super. We met many of his friends,

saw old friends, it was a lot of fun. I have to say, I was proud of myself for

not allowing her -- as was the case in the past -- to affect my evening. I still

had fun, I still laughed and showed my kids off to my brother's friends.

>

> The one point where she got to me was when my 6 yo (and it seems she was

picking on her b/c she's most vulnerable; my 13 yo and my husband would have

ignored her and walked away but my little one can't, so the bitch picked on her)

was eating a 2nd cupcake. She is a little chubby. She is a beautiful, sweet,

funny, fantastic person. But the bitch couldn't resist and said, " another

cupcake??? " with a look of disgust on her face.

>

> My 6 yo looked SO, so hurt. She kept looking back at my mother with surprise

and again, hurt. She said, " what's wrong with Grandma? " I said, " sweetie, I

think Grannie is determined to be unhappy. And she doesn't like to see anyone

else be happy, either. Please just enjoy your cupcake. "

>

> I didn't confront my mother there b/c I didn't want to make a scene at the

expense of my brother's night. I did tell my husband later and he assured me I

didn't need to say anything to my mother, that he would take care of it. (my

mother is terrified of my husband b/c he isn't afraid to say hard things to her.

He doesn't yell or get in her face. He just won't be manipulated by her and she

can't stand it.)

>

> So, two questions I have:

> 1) why does her telling me not to eat olives still bug me? It bugs me that she

tells my brother not to let anyone bring wine to his own party. He's almost 50.

He knows about alcohol. Why does it bother me so much??? I just feel an

injustice about it.

>

> 2) I am not calling her. We have been LC (30 second call once a day and 1 1/2

hour visit once a week--for ME, that's LC; isn't that funny??) for quite a

while. And that's too much. I do not want to talk to her again until she

apologizes. She acted like an ass and like even more of a child than the kids

that were there. I'm not sure how to phrase this question: what can I do now

during my NC time with her -- and I know it's not for forever, we are going to

be in contact again at some point; we live within blocks of each other -- but

for now, how can I make myself even stronger, more resilient in dealing with

her, what can I ask my therapist about to gird me for the next time this

happens? Or is that not possible?

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

> Fiona

>

[Guest guest]

thanks, llel; I appreciate your words. You're so right: she is a person in pain

and hurting. I guess it makes her feel better to " spread the love. "

You know what really nauseated me, was that as my brother's film was ending, his

dedication came up, it said, " For Mom and Pop. " Ugggghhhhh.... The two LEAST

encouraging, MOST negative, against-him people in the world, he dedicates his

film to. It revolted me. I would never tell him that, during the film, my

mother said, loudly enough for my older daughter and me to hear, " is it over

yet?? "

The same thing she said during my wedding.

What an unhappy, awful person.

Yeah, if he wants her somewhere ever again, he can arrange transportation!!

Fiona

>

>

> I think that was a superb answer to your child about the statement about the

cupcakes. and its a testament to how well you have protected her that she asked

out loud 'what's wrong with grandma' because is shows she doesn't understand and

isn't used to the behavior, which is a good thing.

>

> I can see that the problem would be that when you go LC/NC you become more and

more of a human being and have normal pain reactions when people are trying to

hurt you, i.e. you get healthier. I am not sure you can make yourself impervious

to the pain she causes, nor should you want to. It's actually a good thing, I

think, that you know what is behind all of her behavior is she is trying to hurt

you. She has inner hurt she can't deal with, so she is trying to spread it

around. She thinks subconsciously, I guess, that if she gets the focus on her,

something will fix her insides. Talk about cutting her nose off to spite her

face.

>

> I think NC is about all you do probably, and try to determine the length of

time and circumstances where you can 'handle' being exposed to her, if you are

LC. For instance I am exposed to both parents so I am loathe to give anyone

advice, but I don't go anywhere with my fada in public, EVER. I have been to a

couple weddings, where I could get far, far away from him, but I don't go to

parties or restaurants where I will be seated or trapped in a room with him. I

know he will attack me, just like your nada did you. Next time you can tell your

brother, 'she's YOUR nada, if you want her at the event, YOU handle it. I'm

done.' Because at this point, she's beginning to attack the kids (I am using

that word more in the sense of an energy attack rather than physical, or maybe

psychological is the word, trying to do damage to their spirit or energy field)

and nothing is worth the risk of her actually landing some verbal punches that

inflict lasting damage.

[Guest guest]

Oh lord what a bitch - I'm so glad I'm not her!!!!!!! I think I've had

basically that same night many times with my nada and all the other BDPS

Good job dealing with her now batten down the hatches and stay away from her

as much as you can!

hurting. I guess it makes her feel better to " spread the love. "

You know what really nauseated me, was that as my brother's film was ending,

his dedication came up, it said, " For Mom and Pop. " Ugggghhhhh.... The two

LEAST encouraging, MOST negative, against-him people in the world, he

dedicates his film to. It revolted me. I would never tell him that, during

the film, my mother said, loudly enough for my older daughter and me to

hear, " is it over yet?? "

The same thing she said during my wedding.

What an unhappy, awful person.

Yeah, if he wants her somewhere ever again, he can arrange transportation!!

Fiona

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > I think that was a superb answer to your child about the statement about

> the cupcakes. and its a testament to how well you have protected her that

> she asked out loud 'what's wrong with grandma' because is shows she doesn't

> understand and isn't used to the behavior, which is a good thing.

> >

> > I can see that the problem would be that when you go LC/NC you become

> more and more of a human being and have normal pain reactions when people

> are trying to hurt you, i.e. you get healthier. I am not sure you can make

> yourself impervious to the pain she causes, nor should you want to. It's

> actually a good thing, I think, that you know what is behind all of her

> behavior is she is trying to hurt you. She has inner hurt she can't deal

> with, so she is trying to spread it around. She thinks subconsciously, I

> guess, that if she gets the focus on her, something will fix her insides.

> Talk about cutting her nose off to spite her face.

> >

> > I think NC is about all you do probably, and try to determine the length

> of time and circumstances where you can 'handle' being exposed to her, if

> you are LC. For instance I am exposed to both parents so I am loathe to give

> anyone advice, but I don't go anywhere with my fada in public, EVER. I have

> been to a couple weddings, where I could get far, far away from him, but I

> don't go to parties or restaurants where I will be seated or trapped in a

> room with him. I know he will attack me, just like your nada did you. Next

> time you can tell your brother, 'she's YOUR nada, if you want her at the

> event, YOU handle it. I'm done.' Because at this point, she's beginning to

> attack the kids (I am using that word more in the sense of an energy attack

> rather than physical, or maybe psychological is the word, trying to do

> damage to their spirit or energy field) and nothing is worth the risk of her

> actually landing some verbal punches that inflict lasting damage.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fiona, glad you got through the screening and there were some positive

moments like seeing the film and meeting your brothers friends. Sounds like it

was still really challenging though...your poor kid with the cupcake! You

described a lot of " crazy " but that just seemed so small and mean of her.

I'm amazed by the dedication too - is your brother a golden child or fully under

the FOG? I'll be suspicious now of future dedications I hear - maybe it's not

all love and roses behind them.

About your questions on how on earth do we ever get to a point where they can't

get to us? I suspect that can only happen with complete detachment - to truly

no longer care at all what they think or need their love in any way or form.

For me at least I'm a long way off from that....I try to forgive myself for what

feels self-destructive at this point because millions of years of biology are in

play.

Eliza

> >

> >

> > I think that was a superb answer to your child about the statement about the

cupcakes. and its a testament to how well you have protected her that she asked

out loud 'what's wrong with grandma' because is shows she doesn't understand and

isn't used to the behavior, which is a good thing.

> >

> > I can see that the problem would be that when you go LC/NC you become more

and more of a human being and have normal pain reactions when people are trying

to hurt you, i.e. you get healthier. I am not sure you can make yourself

impervious to the pain she causes, nor should you want to. It's actually a good

thing, I think, that you know what is behind all of her behavior is she is

trying to hurt you. She has inner hurt she can't deal with, so she is trying to

spread it around. She thinks subconsciously, I guess, that if she gets the focus

on her, something will fix her insides. Talk about cutting her nose off to spite

her face.

> >

> > I think NC is about all you do probably, and try to determine the length of

time and circumstances where you can 'handle' being exposed to her, if you are

LC. For instance I am exposed to both parents so I am loathe to give anyone

advice, but I don't go anywhere with my fada in public, EVER. I have been to a

couple weddings, where I could get far, far away from him, but I don't go to

parties or restaurants where I will be seated or trapped in a room with him. I

know he will attack me, just like your nada did you. Next time you can tell your

brother, 'she's YOUR nada, if you want her at the event, YOU handle it. I'm

done.' Because at this point, she's beginning to attack the kids (I am using

that word more in the sense of an energy attack rather than physical, or maybe

psychological is the word, trying to do damage to their spirit or energy field)

and nothing is worth the risk of her actually landing some verbal punches that

inflict lasting damage.

>

[Guest guest]

yes, fiona, she's hurting but I say that with the unspoken caveat that you can't

fix her pain.

I was struck by what you said earlier about how she responded to the news about

the meal...SHE wasn't hungry, so why should anyone eat.

THIS has been one of the most devastating things watching my SIL try to parent

her kids without the capacity for empathy, the fact that she could not conceive

her children were hungry because SHE wasn't hungry, and she didn't understand

that their meltdowns were being caused by having to wait til 2 or 3 for lunch

and 8:30, 9, and sometimes 10 to be fed supper. She didn't 'get it' that there

was a world outside of her (extremely regressed development to say the least).

Were you hungry as a child?? I guess I am curious if other bpd moms parent this

way, not understanding their child's needs AT ALL because they are incapable of

perceiving any outside their own. Did your mom keep mealtimes with the two of

you as kids?

That is nauseating about the dedication. My golden child brother has reconciled

with my parents after almost a decade of absence and even though my father dogs

him out almost daily sometimes, he still is up in their armpit (from ten hours

away, anyway). it's truly disgusting, how HE gets to be detached, because he's

so far away, but I have to be stuck here taking the crap and hearing about how

'awful' he was to 'abandon' them for that length of time.

> >

> >

> > I think that was a superb answer to your child about the statement about the

cupcakes. and its a testament to how well you have protected her that she asked

out loud 'what's wrong with grandma' because is shows she doesn't understand and

isn't used to the behavior, which is a good thing.

> >

> > I can see that the problem would be that when you go LC/NC you become more

and more of a human being and have normal pain reactions when people are trying

to hurt you, i.e. you get healthier. I am not sure you can make yourself

impervious to the pain she causes, nor should you want to. It's actually a good

thing, I think, that you know what is behind all of her behavior is she is

trying to hurt you. She has inner hurt she can't deal with, so she is trying to

spread it around. She thinks subconsciously, I guess, that if she gets the focus

on her, something will fix her insides. Talk about cutting her nose off to spite

her face.

> >

> > I think NC is about all you do probably, and try to determine the length of

time and circumstances where you can 'handle' being exposed to her, if you are

LC. For instance I am exposed to both parents so I am loathe to give anyone

advice, but I don't go anywhere with my fada in public, EVER. I have been to a

couple weddings, where I could get far, far away from him, but I don't go to

parties or restaurants where I will be seated or trapped in a room with him. I

know he will attack me, just like your nada did you. Next time you can tell your

brother, 'she's YOUR nada, if you want her at the event, YOU handle it. I'm

done.' Because at this point, she's beginning to attack the kids (I am using

that word more in the sense of an energy attack rather than physical, or maybe

psychological is the word, trying to do damage to their spirit or energy field)

and nothing is worth the risk of her actually landing some verbal punches that

inflict lasting damage.

>