Re: How long have you been here, and what event brought you?

[Guest guest]

I worked at a public library during college, reshelving books. I kept

feeling awful, so I would check out book after book that I found while

shelving on how to improve myself. Self-help books, about co-dependency,

how to say " no " without feeling guilty, things like that. Some I read, some

I skimmed, and none of them really described the issue of why I felt like

crap. I would also read books about depression and things like that.

Eventually, I began to realize that the reason why I felt like crap might

just be because my fada is crazy, so I would read books about the pattern

of abuse and how to protect yourself, and about men being angry all the

time, etc. They were written mostly for spouses of troublesome partners,

but I figured that there would be some info in there that would be helpful

for a child of a crazy father. None of those books quite described my dad.

I figured he had depression, possibly bi-polar or something because of his

spending sprees, when he was alternatively in his mania phase where he was

weirdly overly positive, or when he was raging angry, or when he was giving

us the silent treatment.

Finally, one day I was shelving a book, the Essential Family Guide to

Borderline Personality Disorder, and the blurb on it was about how to stop

walking on eggshells. I must admit, I read some of the book when I was

supposed to be shelving. And it described my dad so perfectly and exactly.

The book directed me to the Yahoo group and to the other BPD Family forums,

but I felt better about a Yahoo group.

It was amazing. When I lurked for a while, I kept reading other peoples'

stories, and they sounded SO familiar, even though there aren't many KOs of

fadas. Mostly nadas, here.

Over time, especially after fada disowned me, I realized that my dad

probably has a comorbidity of NPD as well, because of how he behaved when

he felt slighted, how he kept all the attention to himself, etc.

The disowning hurts like hell still, since I have four little siblings

still living at home, the oldest 13 1/2 and the youngest is 8. But it was

also a blessing, because it was finally then that I was able to break free

of my mental chains. And this group really helped me get through the whole

disowning thing.

I am so fortunate for this group, even when I don't participate very often.

I come and go, depending on how strong I feel. And sometimes taking a break

from the group helps me.

Ha, sometimes I've toyed with the thought of anonymously sending my mom or

my oldest little brother (22) a copy of one of Randi Kreger's books, just

on the off chance they may be able to break free like I did.

> **

>

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long

> you all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you

> that led you to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor

> after she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran

> into ( and we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up,

> she mentioned that many of the problems with my nada made her think that

> she might be Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information

> away for at least a year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him

> and nadas behavior was soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had

> said and started looking on the internet. I have a yahoo email address and

> ended up here! That was just over four or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been here about four years, after my nada made fun of me for being upset

that she had hurt my children. She also thought I should ignore the fact that I

caught my then five-year-old practicing spanking herself so it wouldn't hurt so

much if grandma hit her again. Clearly, in nada's mind, she was making it up. I

don't contribute as much as I could or probably should, but I like coming here

and reading the entries to remind myself that I'm not the crazy one.

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long you

all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you that led you

to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor after

she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran into ( and

we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up, she mentioned

that many of the problems with my nada made her think that she might be

Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at least a

year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was

soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on

the internet. I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over

four or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

I've been here about four years, after my nada made fun of me for being upset

that she had hurt my children. She also thought I should ignore the fact that I

caught my then five-year-old practicing spanking herself so it wouldn't hurt so

much if grandma hit her again. Clearly, in nada's mind, she was making it up. I

don't contribute as much as I could or probably should, but I like coming here

and reading the entries to remind myself that I'm not the crazy one.

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long you

all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you that led you

to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor after

she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran into ( and

we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up, she mentioned

that many of the problems with my nada made her think that she might be

Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at least a

year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was

soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on

the internet. I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over

four or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

I think I've been here since 2007 or perhaps earlier? I was trying to find my

first post, but the search engine won't let me find " me " . Too many posts, I

guess. I first started reading about " difficult people " , buying books about

how to get along with your mother, etc., about 10 years ago; after I had a

nervous breakdown due to an impending visit from my mother that wasn't a good

time for me but I was unable to tell her so. I was still enmeshed with nada,

still looking for her approval, and had few personal boundaries.

Reading books about " difficult people " , I came across the descriptions of the

various personality disorders and the one called " borderline " seemed to fit my

mother the closest. Looking up bpd on the internet, I came across Randi

Kreger's " Stop Walking On Eggshells " andI bought it, devoured it, then sent it

to my Sister.

Sister shared with me that our mother had actually been diagnosed with bpd over

20 years ago, when she had dragged dad with her to a marriage counselor " to

straighten him out about a few things. " But after their first and only session

the counselor said that he felt he could not be of help to them and that mother

needed to go into individual therapy for " borderline pd " . Mother called the

therapist incompetent and crazy, and refused to consider the idea that she

needed therapy.

There was a link to this site in SWOE, and I joined, but reading the posts that

sounded so similar to my own was completely emotionally overwhelming to me; I

could not handle it. I left the Group.

I then found " Understanding The Borderline Mother " and reading THAT was very

emotionally overwhelming for me; it was as though the author had somehow

observed my life personally; it was almost creepy. The book was uprooting deep

pain that I had buried and that was both a devastating but cathartic experience.

I felt a need to rejoin a support group, and rejoined WTO sometime, I think, in

'07.

-Annie

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long you

all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you that led you

to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor after

she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran into ( and

we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up, she mentioned

that many of the problems with my nada made her think that she might be

Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at least a

year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was

soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on

the internet. I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over

four or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

I joined a month ago. I have been really uncomfortable around my family for a

long time. when I went to college I chose (little knowing how much I needed it)

to go where no one I knew lived. and then the threads of my dillusion slowly

unraveled. the first revelation was that I have a sense of humor. I had had it

pounded into my head that I lacked that all important morsel of humanity.

someone laughed when I made a joke. then things were taken to a new level when I

dated and married my dh he treats me properly. the contrast between him and my

foo is startling. and eventually I realisesd that he is treating me like any

emotionally healthy person tries to. he makes mistakes like everyone else, but

he regrets, and apologizes. he also gives thoughtful and personal gifts without

expectations something I had never had before. next I returned home as an adult

and realized that while many attitudes remain on some level my siblings saw me

as an equal and began to appoligise for and reverse the bad habits Nada

encouraged.

then I realized that Nada did not change. and then all the pain and memories

slowly but surely festered out.

and I became angry, anxious, and very guilty for thinking poorly of my mom after

all as she so regularly reminds me she did it all for me.

a friend told me to go to a counselor something my mom has mocked and condemed

for years, becasue she strongly enforces the belif that no one in our family has

problems. and is very greatful (proud) that we have no mental health issues

amoung us. so becasue I had an immage of it being bad I was too emmeshed to jump

in.

then I visited this summer and she made it clear how tainted her belifs of me

and others as well that whatever dam was holding me back burst.

so now I am steeped in a quagmire of pain and feelings that I am slowly digging

out of.

I have been to 1 session and had a phone conversation with the T and she told me

about BP and said my mom is also likely narcissistic. and suggested SWOE and

that led me here.

I am in desperate need of validation. my DH is being very understanding. but he

is a bit helpless, and why I am facing all of this now and all at once is hard

on us all. this group has been just what I needed. somehow seeing my feelings

expressed by other people makes them legitimate. thanks.

> >

> > KO's

> >

> > I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long

you all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you that led

you to finding OZ?

> >

> > For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor

after she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran into

( and we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up, she

mentioned that many of the problems with my nada made her think that she might

be Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at least

a year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was

soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on

the internet. I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over

four or five years ago.

> >

> > Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

> >

> > Carla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carla.

I've been a member on this board for about 4.5 years. I originally joined using

a different username, but it would have been easily recognized by anyone who

knows me, so I changed my alias this year.

My T had confirmed that she thought my mother probably has BPD. I followed the

yellow brick road from SWOE until I got here. It was incredible to find so many

people who understood exactly what I had been through. I am very thankful for

the support and validation of this community.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

Wow. Forever? I think about 7 years. I knew my mom was really

disturbed, but couldnt put a finger on it. Wondered if it was me.

Classic FOGged KO. My sister in law, who is a social worker and alcohol

rehab counselor, said " I bet your Mom has BPD " That led to a search

for answers, which led to SWOE, which led here.

Reading SWOE was an epiphany for me, and a change to my life. It gave

me, at last, a handle on the whole bag of crazy shit I had lived with

all my life.

Doug

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how

long you all have been participating on this board and what event pushed

you that led you to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a

counselor after she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband

died, I ran into ( and we chatted. In the course of our conversation

and catching up, she mentioned that many of the problems with my nada

made her think that she might be Borderline Personality Disorder. I

tucked that information away for at least a year, until my dad got sick.

I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was soooo over the top

that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on the internet.

I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over four

or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

It's not you it's her! It'll get better. Promise!

> **

>

>

>

> I joined a month ago. I have been really uncomfortable around my family

> for a long time. when I went to college I chose (little knowing how much I

> needed it) to go where no one I knew lived. and then the threads of my

> dillusion slowly unraveled. the first revelation was that I have a sense of

> humor. I had had it pounded into my head that I lacked that all important

> morsel of humanity. someone laughed when I made a joke. then things were

> taken to a new level when I dated and married my dh he treats me properly.

> the contrast between him and my foo is startling. and eventually I

> realisesd that he is treating me like any emotionally healthy person tries

> to. he makes mistakes like everyone else, but he regrets, and apologizes.

> he also gives thoughtful and personal gifts without expectations something

> I had never had before. next I returned home as an adult and realized that

> while many attitudes remain on some level my siblings saw me as an equal

> and began to appoligise for and reverse the bad habits Nada encouraged.

>

> then I realized that Nada did not change. and then all the pain and

> memories slowly but surely festered out.

>

> and I became angry, anxious, and very guilty for thinking poorly of my mom

> after all as she so regularly reminds me she did it all for me.

>

> a friend told me to go to a counselor something my mom has mocked and

> condemed for years, becasue she strongly enforces the belif that no one in

> our family has problems. and is very greatful (proud) that we have no

> mental health issues amoung us. so becasue I had an immage of it being bad

> I was too emmeshed to jump in.

>

> then I visited this summer and she made it clear how tainted her belifs of

> me and others as well that whatever dam was holding me back burst.

>

> so now I am steeped in a quagmire of pain and feelings that I am slowly

> digging out of.

>

> I have been to 1 session and had a phone conversation with the T and she

> told me about BP and said my mom is also likely narcissistic. and suggested

> SWOE and that led me here.

>

> I am in desperate need of validation. my DH is being very understanding.

> but he is a bit helpless, and why I am facing all of this now and all at

> once is hard on us all. this group has been just what I needed. somehow

> seeing my feelings expressed by other people makes them legitimate. thanks.

>

> > >

> > > KO's

> > >

> > > I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how

> long you all have been participating on this board and what event pushed

> you that led you to finding OZ?

> > >

> > > For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a

> counselor after she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband

> died, I ran into ( and we chatted. In the course of our conversation and

> catching up, she mentioned that many of the problems with my nada made her

> think that she might be Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that

> information away for at least a year, until my dad got sick. I went home to

> be with him and nadas behavior was soooo over the top that I remembered

> what ( had said and started looking on the internet. I have a yahoo email

> address and ended up here! That was just over four or five years ago.

> > >

> > > Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

> > >

> > > Carla

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm new to the group. Been here about a month or 2. I found the

group while searching on google about emotional abuse. I somehow

came upon the website and then the yahoo group, and am reading

stop walking on eggshells. Also the self-harm aspects aren't

true of my nada the rest is, and I think there's some npd there

too.

Steph

[Guest guest]

O I hear you. This group is a lifeline right now as I unravel my

emotions.

Steph

Re: How long have you been here, and

what event brought you?

I joined a month ago. I have been really uncomfortable around my

family for a long time. when I went to college I chose (little

knowing how much I needed it) to go where no one I knew lived.

and then the threads of my dillusion slowly unraveled. the first

revelation was that I have a sense of humor. I had had it

pounded into my head that I lacked that all important morsel of

humanity. someone laughed when I made a joke. then things were

taken to a new level when I dated and married my dh he treats me

properly. the contrast between him and my foo is startling. and

eventually I realisesd that he is treating me like any

emotionally healthy person tries to. he makes mistakes like

everyone else, but he regrets, and apologizes. he also gives

thoughtful and personal gifts without expectations something I

had never had before. next I returned home as an adult and

realized that while many attitudes remain on some level my

siblings saw me as an equal and began to appoligise for and

reverse the bad habits Nada encouraged.

then I realized that Nada did not change. and then all the pain

and memories slowly but surely festered out.

and I became angry, anxious, and very guilty for thinking poorly

of my mom after all as she so regularly reminds me she did it all

for me.

a friend told me to go to a counselor something my mom has mocked

and condemed for years, becasue she strongly enforces the belif

that no one in our family has problems. and is very greatful

(proud) that we have no mental health issues amoung us. so

becasue I had an immage of it being bad I was too emmeshed to

jump in.

then I visited this summer and she made it clear how tainted her

belifs of me and others as well that whatever dam was holding me

back burst.

so now I am steeped in a quagmire of pain and feelings that I am

slowly digging out of.

I have been to 1 session and had a phone conversation with the T

and she told me about BP and said my mom is also likely

narcissistic. and suggested SWOE and that led me here.

I am in desperate need of validation. my DH is being very

understanding. but he is a bit helpless, and why I am facing all

of this now and all at once is hard on us all. this group has

been just what I needed. somehow seeing my feelings expressed by

other people makes them legitimate. thanks.

KO's

I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering

how long you all have been participating on this board and what

event pushed you that led you to finding OZ?

For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a

counselor after she retired. A year or two before nadas second

husband died, I ran into ( and we chatted. In the course of

our conversation and catching up, she mentioned that many of the

problems with my nada made her think that she might be Borderline

Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at

least a year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him

and nadas behavior was soooo over the top that I remembered what

( had said and started looking on the internet. I have a yahoo

email address and ended up here! That was just over four or five

years ago.

Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

Carla

------------------------------------

**This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book

The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder:

New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at

www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO

NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

Groups Links

[Guest guest]

I'm here 2 years this month.

What led me here was my mother calling me 5 times in a row at home while I was

trying to finish " The Other Boleyn Girl. " I refused to pick up the phone, felt

guilty, and yet thrilled to finish the book.

Then my cell phone rang, again, about 3 or 4 different calls....all from nada.

And then about 1/2 an hour later, my bell rang frantically. It was her. She had

come over to make sure I wasn't dead or anything.

So, it was that, the horrid suffocation and refusal to let me have my own life

and complete, utter lack of understanding that I don't belong to her.

>

> I'm new to the group. Been here about a month or 2. I found the

> group while searching on google about emotional abuse. I somehow

> came upon the website and then the yahoo group, and am reading

> stop walking on eggshells. Also the self-harm aspects aren't

> true of my nada the rest is, and I think there's some npd there

> too.

> Steph

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to ALL of you for your replies. I think it is always good to go back and

look at what brought us to the point that we finally felt we had to reach out

and find some help before our lives were just completely overwhelmed by our

nadas and fadas.

Carla

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering

> how long you all have been participating on this board and what

> event pushed you that led you to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a

> counselor after she retired. A year or two before nadas second

> husband died, I ran into ( and we chatted. In the course of

> our conversation and catching up, she mentioned that many of the

> problems with my nada made her think that she might be Borderline

> Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at

> least a year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him

> and nadas behavior was soooo over the top that I remembered what

> ( had said and started looking on the internet. I have a yahoo

> email address and ended up here! That was just over four or five

> years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book

> The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder:

> New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at

> www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @... DO

> NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

> To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

>

> Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> Groups Links

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I guess this is as good as any topic from which I might post. I joined the

group really briefly a month or so ago and then had misgivings about it, so I

stopped posting and I'd like to jump back in now.

I have been reading the daily digests in the interim and have come to the

conclusion that you are really supportive, kind and even remarkably enlightened

group. I love this sort of environment for sharing, healing and growing in

general, though I've never been part of an online community.

The problem I have with it is that I don't know if I fit in. I unquestionably

have an uBPD mother; I also had an uNPD father, though he is dead now. When I

read many of your posts I am often moved to tears. Partly they are tears of

empathy, because I know so well the struggles/losses that are expressed here and

partly they are tears of grief for my own. I cannot tell you how much I wish I

had had a group such as this while I was growing up.

I lived constantly under the weight of " is it me that's crazy or is it them (my

mother in particular) " . It wasn't really socially acceptable to not like or to

be angry at your mother when I was dealing with this stuff, so I had no outlets

for my struggles. When I did try to get help, I got judgement instead. It was

a really heavy burden to carry as a child and then as young adult.

It wasn't until I had my own children, and had the sorts of difficulties that

KOs have as a parent(depression, grief, anxiety) and got some serious therapy

that I finally convinced myself that it wasn't me. It was a long hard haul. I

even had to go through several therapists before I found one that really, really

deeply understood what I was dealing with and who had the skills to help me

through to the other side.

So now let me tell you why I fear I don't fit in here. So, so, much of this

group is oriented around helping people establish and maintain boundaries with

the PDs in their lives. This makes complete sense. I needed that sort of help

and validation too at one time. However, as I mentioned above, my Fada is dead

and for many years now my Nada has refused to have contact with me (which is

actually a relief to me at this point), so I don't really need help with the

setting of boundaries. Once in a while I have trouble with it with the non PDs

in my life like anyone and maybe a little more so because I am a KO, but by and

large I am really good at boundary setting from having had to be.

What I struggle with most right now is grief and regret about my sister. Here

is the clincher though: I am pretty sure she has OCPD. There are many, many

reasons that I think that. And pretty educated reasons at that. One of the

things about those with OCPD is that they have sooooooooooo many rules. Rules

are boundaries by another name. I mean like boundaries run amok; she has so

many rules it's like being in a rule mine field. There is only one way to do

everything and there is no discussing it. However, even this is not much of an

issue for me anymore, because she has pretty much " ruled " me out of her life.

It is the BPD-laden back story and the implications of this that I could use

support for. Does this make sense? Has anyone here had a similar situation or

dealt with an OCPD loved one?

I would also like to contribute and support others in their journeys, but I have

held back because I am not really sure I belong here and I felt like I needed to

bring myself forth first.

I welcome responses and feedback from anyone.

HC

>

> Hi, Carla.

>

> I've been a member on this board for about 4.5 years. I originally joined

using a different username, but it would have been easily recognized by anyone

who knows me, so I changed my alias this year.

>

> My T had confirmed that she thought my mother probably has BPD. I followed the

yellow brick road from SWOE until I got here. It was incredible to find so many

people who understood exactly what I had been through. I am very thankful for

the support and validation of this community.

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

I've been here about 2 months. I've known for decades that nada was BPD. I've

lived out of state for 20+ years, and over the last several years, lessened the

ties. That was hard, since as a single parent of four with no child support, my

parents bailed me out repeatedly, and you know how a nada can use that......

My dad was ill, passed away a year ago. Very difficult time. Nada in and out

of pysch wards between a lengthy stay in care facility. I was the unspoken but

designated " go to " person on most of this, dealing with multiple agencies,

banks, insurance companies etc even before my dad passed away. Nada kept

everyone spinning, especially me. Got her into assisted living, which has

turned out to be very costly, due to her behavioral issues, she's required a lot

of caregiving hours. Watched her split and triangulate staff.

Brought in a different caregiving agency. The RN knew of a good psychiatric

nurse practitioner (been unable to find psych willing to take Medicare and/or

someone with nada's complex issues.) I always share the info of BPD diagnosis

with MDs, caregiving agencies etc. This PNP was very familiar with BPD,

recommended to the caregivers that the read some of the books. They were ready

to throw in the towel on nada, but the RN is committed to making it work. We

have firm boundaries and try at all times to appear as a united front to nada,

so she can't play us off of each other. Or course, she still tries.

Nada was making false accusations of abuse and neglect against the caregivers.

We confronted her in a meeting, the providers, assisted living director and

myself. We presented her with a behavior contract that she needed to follow to

continue living there. That was 2 months ago, and so far, so good.

Anyway, I digress. I realized that my nada had me in a tailspin constantly.

Even though I'd taken steps: putting her calls directly to vm on my cell,

thinking of her as a client ( i work in social services) etc. She still had me

agitated and worked up pretty much daily! Reading SWOE reinforced a lot of

things I knew, but had drited away from. This group has helped immensely! I

can't go NC, given my responsibilities as trustee, p.o.a. etc. Sometimes, I'm

resentful of my sis that is NC.

I'm going to read UTBM as soon as I can order it. Again, I appreciate the

support here so much, the shared experience that most friends etc can't relate

to, and a place I can feel validated, and hopefully validate others.

Since finding the KO group, I've increased my ability to maintain Medium Chill

ten fold. I've kept the relationship with nada superficial for several years,

and have no regrets. I figured out as a very young adult that nada was not a

mom. I was blessed with many female mentors in my life, and also figured out

what that book title meant, " how to be your own best friend( or mom)! So, I

was able to let go of that longing years ago. It can be done! I'm a pretty

nurturing mom type to a lot of people, beyond my kids and grandkids. Be that

mom you didn't have!!!

Sending hugs to all of you.

>

> KO's

>

> I definitely see some old familiar names here, and was wondering how long you

all have been participating on this board and what event pushed you that led you

to finding OZ?

>

> For me it was a former Army co-worker, (, that had become a counselor after

she retired. A year or two before nadas second husband died, I ran into ( and

we chatted. In the course of our conversation and catching up, she mentioned

that many of the problems with my nada made her think that she might be

Borderline Personality Disorder. I tucked that information away for at least a

year, until my dad got sick. I went home to be with him and nadas behavior was

soooo over the top that I remembered what ( had said and started looking on

the internet. I have a yahoo email address and ended up here! That was just over

four or five years ago.

>

> Bless you for starting this group, Randi!

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome back, HC.

My nada has obsessive-compulsive pd, I think, or at least she has a lot of the

traits, as well as bpd (formally diagnosed) and npd (my speculation.)

My nada (who is now in hospice) was very obsessed with orderliness and having

control over everyone and everything in her reach. Chores could only be done

one way, her way, which was by definition " the right way. " Her standards of

perfectionism were usually unachievable; sometimes she herself would re-do a

chore I'd done or she'd make me re-do it over and over while she stood nearby

screaming abuse at me.

Our house was so neat, clean and orderly that it looked like nobody lived there.

Oh, and we were not even allowed to go into the " living room " as it had to

remain untouched in case a visitor should drop by. Are we surprised that

nobody, and I mean NObody *ever* just dropped in unannounced at our house? That

would have sent my nada into a paroxysm of agitation, trying to be gracious and

a good hostess while being completely put-out and resentful underneath. (I

learned by osmosis that it was better to not invite friends over to our house to

play or stay over; it made nada too irritable and agitated and she was likely to

criticize me or punish me in front of my friends and shame me.)

All nada's social events were carefully planned far in advance, to allow time

for nada to choose a theme for the party, create the perfect menu, purchase the

perfect matching decorations and plates and glasses, etc. (not plastic, mind

you. She'd buy new sets of ceramic dish-ware and real glasses and linens to go

with the party theme.) And there had to be time for us to " clean " the place to

within an inch of its life, as though its usual hospital-room sterility wasn't

clean enough.

My nada was quite the hoarder, also. It seems that hoarding behavior tends to

fall into the ocpd category, whether its neat hoarding (such as hundreds of

glass vases stored in clear plastic boxes neatly organized by color and labeled)

or filthy hoarding (as in the TV show " Hoarders " )

Without consulting with each other, both my younger Sister and I went through a

" filthy " phase when we first moved out of our parents' home and got our own

places. I think it was a form of rebellion, an " up yours " to nada. I'm much

neater than I used to be, but nowhere near what nada would consider neat &

clean, but I like it that way! It feels human to me. Although I admit that

one of my New Year's resolutions will be to seriously de-clutter my place. I

have a hard time throwing things away, but have started to do that now.

I plan to hire workmen to remove the large or bulky items I no longer need or

use, in the new year.

Perhaps ocpd has a genetic component also?

-Annie

>

> Hi,

>

> I guess this is as good as any topic from which I might post. I joined the

group really briefly a month or so ago and then had misgivings about it, so I

stopped posting and I'd like to jump back in now.

>

> I have been reading the daily digests in the interim and have come to the

conclusion that you are really supportive, kind and even remarkably enlightened

group. I love this sort of environment for sharing, healing and growing in

general, though I've never been part of an online community.

>

> The problem I have with it is that I don't know if I fit in. I unquestionably

have an uBPD mother; I also had an uNPD father, though he is dead now. When I

read many of your posts I am often moved to tears. Partly they are tears of

empathy, because I know so well the struggles/losses that are expressed here and

partly they are tears of grief for my own. I cannot tell you how much I wish I

had had a group such as this while I was growing up.

>

> I lived constantly under the weight of " is it me that's crazy or is it them

(my mother in particular) " . It wasn't really socially acceptable to not like or

to be angry at your mother when I was dealing with this stuff, so I had no

outlets for my struggles. When I did try to get help, I got judgement instead.

It was a really heavy burden to carry as a child and then as young adult.

>

> It wasn't until I had my own children, and had the sorts of difficulties that

KOs have as a parent(depression, grief, anxiety) and got some serious therapy

that I finally convinced myself that it wasn't me. It was a long hard haul. I

even had to go through several therapists before I found one that really, really

deeply understood what I was dealing with and who had the skills to help me

through to the other side.

>

> So now let me tell you why I fear I don't fit in here. So, so, much of this

group is oriented around helping people establish and maintain boundaries with

the PDs in their lives. This makes complete sense. I needed that sort of help

and validation too at one time. However, as I mentioned above, my Fada is dead

and for many years now my Nada has refused to have contact with me (which is

actually a relief to me at this point), so I don't really need help with the

setting of boundaries. Once in a while I have trouble with it with the non PDs

in my life like anyone and maybe a little more so because I am a KO, but by and

large I am really good at boundary setting from having had to be.

>

> What I struggle with most right now is grief and regret about my sister. Here

is the clincher though: I am pretty sure she has OCPD. There are many, many

reasons that I think that. And pretty educated reasons at that. One of the

things about those with OCPD is that they have sooooooooooo many rules. Rules

are boundaries by another name. I mean like boundaries run amok; she has so

many rules it's like being in a rule mine field. There is only one way to do

everything and there is no discussing it. However, even this is not much of an

issue for me anymore, because she has pretty much " ruled " me out of her life.

It is the BPD-laden back story and the implications of this that I could use

support for. Does this make sense? Has anyone here had a similar situation or

dealt with an OCPD loved one?

>

> I would also like to contribute and support others in their journeys, but I

have held back because I am not really sure I belong here and I felt like I

needed to bring myself forth first.

>

> I welcome responses and feedback from anyone.

>

> HC

[Guest guest]

Hi, and welcome, but sorry you need to be here.

I am the youngest of four kids, and given how little sense I could make of nada

often turned to my sister, who is nine years older than me, as my surrogate

parent. She seemed all too happy to assume the role. In fairness, she shouldn't

have had to be put in that position.

We were very close until several years ago when I began to notice things about

her. I once tried to confront her on an issue and she stormed off. She loved

teasing me, even well into adulthood. She'd make comments like " You need a new

bra " or " Fashion don't " or " Try harder " in response to my chosen attire, not

spoken in the I-really-want-to-help-you kind of way, but more in an accusatory,

belittling tone. She too had rules, not as over-the-top as your sister's sound,

but strange, rigid rules that she assumed everyone would agree with. Her house

was spotless. She completely redecorated her house about every other year. She

would frequently tell me " You don't want to be friends with that person " without

telling me why. She compared herself to me All The Time and always came to the

conclusion that she was better/prettier/smarter. I started to find myself a

little uncomfortable in her presence.

About four years back my nada--well, my post is in this thread, so I won't

dredge it up again. After I confonted my parents, I called my sister to alert

her to the fact that mom was about to go loony tunes. She in turn said " Well,

maybe it was the way you said it to her, " and other such statements implying

that I had misstepped somehow in trying to defend my children. I quit speaking

to my parents and she criticized my decision, stating that it was " too unfair to

Dad " . And then she, in turn, quit speaking to me. If I run into her at the

store, she pretends like everything is hunky-dory, we chit-chat, etc. But she

never calls. She (and my older brother) quit sending me Christmas cards two

years ago. I was very sad about it.

But I have thought a lot about this, have read extensively and talked to many

people. I have a very stressful, very time-consuming job, one that I chose and

would like to advance in. I have to make some incredibly difficult decisions. At

this point in my life, I need a support system, not a peanut gallery. I can't

afford to spend a large chunk of my free time with people who make fun of me,

ridicule my decisions, and undermine my authority in front of my children.

Having little to no support system would be better than wading in a constant

emotional undertow. Believe it or not, the less negative behavior that you put

up with, the more people with positive behaviors will want to be with you and

provide you the support you need.

Looking back, it was a very painful process. Very painful. But it seemed to come

down to give up on myself or give up on my family. And since I know I have to

live with me the rest of my life, I did what I felt I needed to do. I know I'm

stronger for it. Not necessarily happier, yet, but definitely a more functional

human being.

> >

> > Hi, Carla.

> >

> > I've been a member on this board for about 4.5 years. I originally joined

using a different username, but it would have been easily recognized by anyone

who knows me, so I changed my alias this year.

> >

> > My T had confirmed that she thought my mother probably has BPD. I followed

the yellow brick road from SWOE until I got here. It was incredible to find so

many people who understood exactly what I had been through. I am very thankful

for the support and validation of this community.

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I could have written this!!! Soooooo eerily familiar!!!!

My nada never set foot upstairs, for the last 40+ years, and yet, when I cleared

out the house after my dad died, she was able to tell me things like, " Be sure

and get the halloween scarecrow centerpiece from on top of the dresser, also I

want the 5 dry clean only table runners from the closet, " and on and on. And

darn it, she was right about where EVERYTHING was. Neat and tidy hoarding. And

everyone in the household had to comply, I am sure my poor dad, diminished lung

capacity and all, was trudging up and down the stairs, following her commands.

My mom also made lists: Every day when we came home from school, there was a

list for each of us, " change into play clothes, put away school clothes, do

homework, feed the cat, write thank you letters, practice piano " etc. My dad,

who worked 12 hour days, would come home and find his list taped to his dinner

glass, or the TV. Weekends were no exception. We all did the grocery

shopping, and what we brought home better match that list. " I said S & W, NOT Del

Monte. " That would require a trip to exchange. We even had typed lists for

camping! Hard to believe she ever went camping. Of course, she did sweep the

tent out hourly, and we only went a few times.

I am a perfectionist in some ways. How could I not be? But, even though I

keep things relatively clean and neat, I insist on my right to have a few little

" piles " . My SO learned the hard way not to mess with my little pile of papers

on my dresser. He thought he was being helpful. I thought he was being NADA.

LOL!

To this day, nada really cannot deal with anything out of order or not done to

her specifications. Just the other day, the agency reported the aide had to

remake the bed four times, because each time she would do it, nada would undo it

and tell her to do it right. I'd visited that day, and saw the pillow on the

floor, my mom reported the aide had not yet made the bed, even though she'd

" asked " five times.

Sending you a big hug, Annie! Now go throw some laundry on the floor!

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I guess this is as good as any topic from which I might post. I joined the

group really briefly a month or so ago and then had misgivings about it, so I

stopped posting and I'd like to jump back in now.

> >

> > I have been reading the daily digests in the interim and have come to the

conclusion that you are really supportive, kind and even remarkably enlightened

group. I love this sort of environment for sharing, healing and growing in

general, though I've never been part of an online community.

> >

> > The problem I have with it is that I don't know if I fit in. I

unquestionably have an uBPD mother; I also had an uNPD father, though he is dead

now. When I read many of your posts I am often moved to tears. Partly they are

tears of empathy, because I know so well the struggles/losses that are expressed

here and partly they are tears of grief for my own. I cannot tell you how much

I wish I had had a group such as this while I was growing up.

> >

> > I lived constantly under the weight of " is it me that's crazy or is it them

(my mother in particular) " . It wasn't really socially acceptable to not like or

to be angry at your mother when I was dealing with this stuff, so I had no

outlets for my struggles. When I did try to get help, I got judgement instead.

It was a really heavy burden to carry as a child and then as young adult.

> >

> > It wasn't until I had my own children, and had the sorts of difficulties

that KOs have as a parent(depression, grief, anxiety) and got some serious

therapy that I finally convinced myself that it wasn't me. It was a long hard

haul. I even had to go through several therapists before I found one that

really, really deeply understood what I was dealing with and who had the skills

to help me through to the other side.

> >

> > So now let me tell you why I fear I don't fit in here. So, so, much of this

group is oriented around helping people establish and maintain boundaries with

the PDs in their lives. This makes complete sense. I needed that sort of help

and validation too at one time. However, as I mentioned above, my Fada is dead

and for many years now my Nada has refused to have contact with me (which is

actually a relief to me at this point), so I don't really need help with the

setting of boundaries. Once in a while I have trouble with it with the non PDs

in my life like anyone and maybe a little more so because I am a KO, but by and

large I am really good at boundary setting from having had to be.

> >

> > What I struggle with most right now is grief and regret about my sister.

Here is the clincher though: I am pretty sure she has OCPD. There are many,

many reasons that I think that. And pretty educated reasons at that. One of

the things about those with OCPD is that they have sooooooooooo many rules.

Rules are boundaries by another name. I mean like boundaries run amok; she has

so many rules it's like being in a rule mine field. There is only one way to do

everything and there is no discussing it. However, even this is not much of an

issue for me anymore, because she has pretty much " ruled " me out of her life.

It is the BPD-laden back story and the implications of this that I could use

support for. Does this make sense? Has anyone here had a similar situation or

dealt with an OCPD loved one?

> >

> > I would also like to contribute and support others in their journeys, but I

have held back because I am not really sure I belong here and I felt like I

needed to bring myself forth first.

> >

> > I welcome responses and feedback from anyone.

> >

> > HC

>

[Guest guest]

I feel grief and regret and also resentment and hurt towards my sis.

My sis is 17 months younger, we're in our 50's. She's had anorexia as long as I

can remember, as well as an exercise addiction. She has a highly regimented

life that essentially keeps everyone at a distance. Her choosing. but it's very

painful to watch.

As long as I can remember, she's worked 60-70 hours a week. And yet, has nothing

to show for it. She lives in a studio apt. with her cat. She doesn't drive, by

choice, she's saving the environment. And the walking feeds the exercise

addiction. She's become very self righteous and now she's a vegan (not hard to

do when you don't eat anyway.)

She doesn't do holidays (believe me, I don't make a big splash, not into

religious tradition much etc, but I enjoy special occasions with family and

friends, I'm pretty social.) She never takes vacation days. She's been

married four times, walked away from the equity in homes on #2 and #3. Made her

sons live like paupers rather than ask for an increase in child support when dad

made six figures. Shoved oldest out the door when he turned 18. Was never

very " nurturing " , working those long hours. Has been NC with nada for years,

but will surface occasionally (last week, asked for $200 because she'd had the

flu and missed work....)

She was helpful when dad was terminally ill, she was a medical assistant and

enjoyed being able to help him and interact with the hospital staff. As soon as

he was sent home she was unavailable, even when he offered to give her his car.

Our grandparents essentially raised her eldest son the first 5 years of his

life. I also had him for weeks on end. She was distant from them, and so that's

what the boys learned. Who do you think fell apart when my grandparents and

dad died? Yep, it was her.

Over the last 20 years, I maintained contact with her, even when she wouldn't

have any contact with the rest of the family. Or I should say, I tried to

maintain contact. I defended her to the rest of the family, just as I defended

her when we were kids and nada had it out for her. I craved the contact with

her, we were so close in age, and had common experience and, I thought,

understanding of our nada and how we were raised. She suffered in a different

way, I was the " caretaker " and she was the " bad child " . I understand why she's

NC, but that means I am dealing with a lot in terms of elder care for nada. So,

I'm resentful. That sounds so awful. I don't want to offend those who are NC.

I can't imagine dealing with some of the horrible abuse people have described.

I've just been dealt a hand that doesn't allow me to go NC.

She would go months and not contact me. Then a barrage of emails telling me how

much she missed me, or she'd call and yak for hours on end. She'd tell my kids

she was coming to visit ( i live 3.5 hours from where we were raised.) She'd

tell ME she was coming to visit. And I'd fall for it. I'd get excited! She

visited once for the day in 2000. And husband #4 rented a zipcar and brought

her down for the afternoon in 2007. That's it.

Even now, she posts to my fb page, " hey, sister, miss you. " Says she's gonna

come visit. I feel creeped out when she calls me " sister " like that. It

implies ownership or something. And she makes it very clear she wants me to

comfort her about our dad's passing, she's literally said I'm her rock.

Whatever. I have my hands full dealing with nada, and never exactly had time to

grieve myself.

She has these boundaries/rules to keep everyone out, and then says she fears

being alone.

So, all this time, I was feeling so bad, and missing a relationship with her,

the one person who knew our " story " of our childhood. Our much younger sister

doesn't get it, essentially it was like she had a different childhood.

Then, after my dad's memorial service, she sent me a scathing email, about how

she'd been left out and she was the only one who ever helped my parents but baby

sis and I got all the glory. It was so mean and so unexpected. I was shocked.

And deeply hurt. Baby sis pointed out that we shouldn't have to apologize for

the way nada raised us and the roles she assigned us, we did what we had to, and

we were KIDS.

This was about the same time I was needing to really set boundaries with nada.

Which made it easier to set boundaries with sis. A few months later, she sent

me an email, saying " I'm sorry. " I said, okay. I forgive her. But am no

longer willing to let her be the one that determines the boundaries of the

relationship. I feel bad for her with her eating disorder and highly regimented

life that so conveniently serves to show the world how socially and

environmentally responsible she is, and yet reinforces her eating disorder as

well as her strict boundaries and tiny little world. But I am not going to be

there for her as an emotional caretaker regarding our dad etc. So, I've gone

Medium Chill with her.

I thank you for letting me sort this out.

> >

> > Hi, Carla.

> >

> > I've been a member on this board for about 4.5 years. I originally joined

using a different username, but it would have been easily recognized by anyone

who knows me, so I changed my alias this year.

> >

> > My T had confirmed that she thought my mother probably has BPD. I followed

the yellow brick road from SWOE until I got here. It was incredible to find so

many people who understood exactly what I had been through. I am very thankful

for the support and validation of this community.

> >

> > Sveta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(((((stillsmirky)))))

You must have a lot of resilience, to endure having a bpd mom and a sister with

some kind of disorder (I'm just speculating); possibly avoidant pd or ocpd?

Although it hurts to have to set such boundaries, it sounds like that is the

healthiest thing for you to do

with your next-younger sis. I'm sorry you're having to deal with dysfunction in

" stereo " with your foo.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi, Carla.

> > >

> > > I've been a member on this board for about 4.5 years. I originally joined

using a different username, but it would have been easily recognized by anyone

who knows me, so I changed my alias this year.

> > >

> > > My T had confirmed that she thought my mother probably has BPD. I followed

the yellow brick road from SWOE until I got here. It was incredible to find so

many people who understood exactly what I had been through. I am very thankful

for the support and validation of this community.

> > >

> > > Sveta

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've been here about six months or so, probably. I found out about BPD about a

year and a half ago. My sister, who was 16 at the time, was seeing a social

worker for depression and suicidal ideation (I'll give you one guess what was

causing that). I saw she had written in her online journal just one line that

said something like, " I guess we should all learn about Borderline Personality

Disorder then. " I asked her about it and she said her SW thought that our mom

had BPD. I was a junior in nursing school at the time and just happened to be in

my psych rotation so I pulled out my nursing psych book and looked up BPD. It

was like a wrecking ball smacked me upside the head. I couldn't believe it had a

name! A few months later I talked to my dad about it and I think it was he who

mentioned SWOE and I found the group through that book. I am so glad that my

sister's SW was able to see through Nada's bs to the root of the problem. I'm

pretty sure Nada unleashed

some very bpd-esque anger on her that clued her in. After all, sister's SW was

trying to help sister become more independent and get out from under Nada's

toxic influence. I'm sure Nada LOVED that. Sister and Dad put their collective

feet down and refused to switch, though I think a large part of it on my dad's

side was that seeing the SW was really cheap with our insurance.

It sucks that sister's SW could see it, but nada's ridiculously long trail of

T's and medicators are so oblivious. Well, to be fair I'm sure at least two of

them have figured it out, but by the time they did they were already in over

their heads and in full out " abandon ship! " mode. Guess that's pretty typical,

huh.

[Guest guest]

This is pretty strange as it's making me wonder if this is a bpd trait. My nada

knew exactly where everything was and everything had to be exactly to her

specifications.

When we stayed with her for a few weeks between houses a few years ago she

wouldn't let my hubby dispose of his breakfast banana peels. " I'll dispose of

those, " she would say disdainfully, as though they were something terribly

distasteful. Nope, he couldn't just toss them in the trash.

On the bright side, it made it easy to move her things out when I sold her place

earlier this year.

> Annie, I could have written this!!! Soooooo eerily familiar!!!!

>

> My nada never set foot upstairs, for the last 40+ years, and yet, when I

cleared out the house after my dad died, she was able to tell me things like,

" Be sure and get the halloween scarecrow centerpiece from on top of the dresser,

also I want the 5 dry clean only table runners from the closet, " and on and on.

And darn it, she was right about where EVERYTHING was. Neat and tidy hoarding.

And everyone in the household had to comply, I am sure my poor dad, diminished

lung capacity and all, was trudging up and down the stairs, following her

commands.

>

> My mom also made lists: Every day when we came home from school, there was a

list for each of us, " change into play clothes, put away school clothes, do

homework, feed the cat, write thank you letters, practice piano " etc. My dad,

who worked 12 hour days, would come home and find his list taped to his dinner

glass, or the TV. Weekends were no exception. We all did the grocery shopping,

and what we brought home better match that list. " I said S & W, NOT Del Monte. "

That would require a trip to exchange. We even had typed lists for camping! Hard

to believe she ever went camping. Of course, she did sweep the tent out hourly,

and we only went a few times.

>

> I am a perfectionist in some ways. How could I not be? But, even though I keep

things relatively clean and neat, I insist on my right to have a few little

" piles " . My SO learned the hard way not to mess with my little pile of papers on

my dresser. He thought he was being helpful. I thought he was being NADA. LOL!

>

> To this day, nada really cannot deal with anything out of order or not done to

her specifications. Just the other day, the agency reported the aide had to

remake the bed four times, because each time she would do it, nada would undo it

and tell her to do it right. I'd visited that day, and saw the pillow on the

floor, my mom reported the aide had not yet made the bed, even though she'd

" asked " five times.