Re: A Huge fear

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you're the scapegoat and you can't win with these people. If

you leave their circle they'll have to pick a new scapegoat.

> **

>

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes

> my daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my

> mom has denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to

> me. she denies the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher

> brought a doctor to the school for me.) or worse says vague things like

> " you grew out of that years ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in

> which to grow out of something) or " I am not sure that doctor really knew

> what he was talking about " etc. she denies (and used to deny daily) that I

> was being severely bullied. she denies that I was mistreated at home by my

> siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious medical issue, and

> insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention, or defiance

> etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my problem,

> but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still shames

> me for her expectation of the symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

> " over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of

> that all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to

> get a reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it

> off with " I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she

> bothered to punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she

> over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one

> huge projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she

> feels is justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

> doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our

> mom. and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her

> favorite accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my

> family even if they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gaslighting is a devastating form of emotional torture, and to do that to one's

own young, trusting child is reprehensible. It can literally drive a person

insane, to make her doubt her own senses, her own memory and her own feelings.

A parent who routinely uses gaslighting against her child, in order to minimize

the child's needs, pain, and feelings and deny having mistreated or neglected

the child: deny the child's perception of reality... such a parent is too

mentally ill to be raising children, in my opinion. I wish you could have been

rescued from such treatment.

Its very sad when an entire family system is caught up in dysfunction, and

supports the mentally-ill but powerful and controlling family

matriarch/patriarch in maintaining the toxic family dynamic: agreeing to

designate certain family members as the " all-good, sane, golden " ones and other

family members as the " all-bad, insane, scapegoated " ones.

I hope that you are able to get some therapy for yourself, to help you realize

that you are not making things up, that your pd mother actually did neglect and

abuse you, that you do have rights and feelings, and that its OK to stop

needing your toxic family's validation and its OK to create a safe emotional

distance from them.

They are still able to harm you if you are afraid of their disapproval.

I suggest that when we feel fear of our pd parent's disapproval, its because we

revert to our child-selves in their presence, craving their love and validation

and approval like its a life-line to a drowning person.

But if you can somehow start seeing yourself as a fully grown, powerful,

self-actualized, self-reliant adult, and see your parents as the nasty, mean,

bullying children that they actually are, it can help you create emotional

distance from them. If you can get to a point where you can easily say to

yourself, " Who gives a crap WHAT they think, about anything? They're nasty,

hateful, mean human beings who don't care about me, and probably never did. Who

gives a flying fig if they are displeased with me? Their opinion of me doesn't

matter! "

Or, if you can access any hidden, repressed righteous anger you may have buried

in your subconscious, righteous anger can motivate you to act in your own

defense and protect yourself from further trauma, sort of like becoming your own

big sister or big brother.

How DARE your nada try to gaslight you? No real mother, no sane, compassionate,

empathetic, caring human being does that to her own child! How dare she think

she can do that to you? In reality, denying you medical treatment could very

likely be considered criminal child neglect. Hearing about such things gets me

riled up big time; makes me want to turn into Popeye and beat the crap out of

parents who medically neglect their children.

I hope that helps, or is at least food for thought.

-Annie

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one huge

projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels is

justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

[Guest guest]

I too just learned that term...it's a relief to know that it's not all in my

head....I too second guess everything....every emotion...I used to have a

difficult time even having a conversation with people for fear my thoughts and

knowledge were all wrong. It's so complicated. I remember my T from years ago

saying, " This is crazy making behavior. " That " Crazy Making " was Gaslighting.

It makes good sense now. I still second guess myself. I'm not sure why, but I

atract people who want to control me and tell me what to do. I'm trying very

hard to stand up for myself.

Understanding this is all so very sad too and it makes us have to go back and

recall all the events over the course of our lives (I guess I don't have too but

I do...to make sense out of what my childhood was). It also helps me to stop

the interaction with my Nada when she starts doing this. Many times I don't

realize until after our conversation and I don't feel good about what she has

said....then I realize....Gaslighting.

Thank you for sharing.

Louise

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one huge

projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels is

justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

[Guest guest]

Fog and gaslighting leave us emotionally scarred for years. Knowledge

is the beginning of healing. If you have not yet read Stop Walking on

Eggshells, I strongly suggest you do so.

You will NEVER get her to see things as they are, or as you saw them.

Your focus is not on getting her to a sane place, but yourself. If mom

is a BP, that is her problem. Being a KO is yours.

Find healthy ways for you to live and cope, and let her problems be

hers.

Doug

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is

describes my daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my

household. my mom has denied almost all the negative things that have

ever happened to me. she denies the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed

because a teacher brought a doctor to the school for me.) or worse says

vague things like " you grew out of that years ago " (like a 11 year old

has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I am not sure

that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies (and

used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a

serious medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy

for attention, or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very

efficient treatment for my problem, but as everyone still defends her

with " i'ts just a habit " she still shames me for her expectation of the

symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because

of that all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was

to get a reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would

top it off with " I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare

occasions she bothered to punish them it was always prefaced with " I

know she over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just

one huge projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything

she feels is justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully

groomed to doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at

our mom. and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another

of her favorite accusations) the perceptions she created are still

popular in my family even if they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

[Guest guest]

I can REALY relate to your email. I CONSTANTLY doubt my

feelings! Because as a child, and even now, they have no value.

My feelings don't enter in to it, and so I just doubt them. I

was trained to not question, not display my feelings. You

expressed the same fear I have. I am beginning to realize it

doesn't matter if anyone believes me or not. I just have to live

this life the best I can.

Steph

A Huge fear

background:

Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is

describes my daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport

in my household. my mom has denied almost all the negative

things that have ever happened to me. she denies the existence

of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out

of that years ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to

grow out of something) or " I am not sure that doctor really knew

what he was talking about " etc. she denies (and used to deny

daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I was

mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence

of a serious medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it

were a ploy for attention, or defiance etc. as an adult I have

found a very efficient treatment for my problem, but as everyone

still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still shames me

for her expectation of the symptoms.

my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder "

because of that all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to

pick on me was to get a reaction. because then i was the one in

trouble. and she would top it off with " I'm not going to fight

your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to punish

them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is

just one huge projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings "

than everything she feels is justified.

my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully

groomed to doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself

sometimes.

and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad

at our mom. and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim "

(another of her favorite accusations) the perceptions she created

are still popular in my family even if they are faded a bit.

how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee

properly?

------------------------------------

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The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder:

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

I hear where you're coming from.

My feelings were frequently negated as well. I'm 44 and I would say it's only

been since last year that I have felt freedom to say what I mean and to feel

validated only because **I** knew that's how I felt.

You asked how you can express what you want to people who think you can't feel

properly--my answer is that you don't. They are not worthy of the effort of an

explanation. It sounds like they are part of the problem.

Your feelings are yours whether they get it or not. And that's that. They don't

need to understand or agree with you.

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one huge

projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels is

justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

[Guest guest]

I agree; the problem that a lot of us KOs have is learning to self-validate our

own feelings and perceptions. I have to admit that it really, really helped me

that my younger Sister was able to validate my perceptions and feelings and some

memories (as I do for her), it helped us heal and grow closer to each other as

sisters and friends.

What helped me before I started sharing a lot / opening up a lot to my Sister,

was that I had started writing a " retro diary " . I just started jotting down

random memories from my childhood and growing up years. At first I wasn't

concerned with placing them in time, just getting the memories down on paper,

and later, on my computer. Then I started trying to sort them based on the

fragments of details, the place the memory seemed to be located, etc. What

emerged was a kind of checkerboard pattern of both a loving, kind mother and a

scary, unpredictable, abusive mother. Seeing the incidents written down helped

make them more solid for me; I wasn't making this stuff up. It wasn't

occasional. It was real: a pattern of clearly abnormal behaviors that my nada

had.

So, I suggest that writing down your feelings, perceptions and thoughts

regarding current events in your life in a diary/blog, and/or writing a " retro

diary " is one way to help you self-validate.

-Annie

> >

> > background:

> > Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

> >

> > my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

> >

> > my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one

huge projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels

is justified.

> >

> > my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

> >

> > and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

> >

> > how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

or just do what I do, mentally put on your tshirt that says...THERE IS NO

REASONING WITH CRAZY PEOPLE!!! It's just a waste of your time energy and effort.

> >

> > background:

> > Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

> >

> > my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

> >

> > my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one

huge projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels

is justified.

> >

> > my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

> >

> > and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

> >

> > how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow... are you my long lost sibling?!! Your nada sounds like mine

with the way she gaslights you. Even to the extent of denying a

serious medical condition & stating I was only having surgery (again)

" for attention " . Yes, because doctors just go around doing surgery

willy-nilly. *rolls eyes*

Gosh, she sounds so much like my nada. Mine also denies all the

negative things that have happened to me, especially the ones that she

was responsible for.

I happen to agree that it is projection of her inner thoughts about

her self onto me. With my situation, she was so toxic I have moved

200 miles away & gone completely NC. That hasn't stopped her from

sending her " flying monkeys " to track me down though, but I refuse to

live my life in fear anymore. It's my life, and I have the right to

chose who's in it.

I also understand your fear of not being believed. I think, in my

case, that fear stemmed from constantly being told I was a liar. I

don't go around telling people about my nada randomly of course, but

those whom I have told DO believe me. My husband, his family, and the

few close friends I have told... they seem to get it and more

importantly, they believe me.

Gaslighting is such a horrible thing.

I think too, that as KO's, we have also had to suppress our emotions

and thoughts on how we feel for so long that we no often have no idea

how to express them. It takes time. Often therapists can help us

find the words to express how we feel. For me, therapy helped with

that tremendously! Not only did I learn how to express what I was

feeling, I learned how to IDENTIFY it. It sounds like the same thing,

but it's different. Learning to identify the feelings helped me to

also identify those " red flags " ... boundary violations by other

people.

I have learned to listen to my gut, how to express my concern, emotions, etc.

I hope you are able to get to a point where you can too, and feel

comfortable with it.

Hugs to you,

Mia

>

>

>

> background:

> Gaslighting is a term i learned only in the last month. but is describes my

daily reality as a child. gaslighting was a sport in my household. my mom has

denied almost all the negative things that have ever happened to me. she denies

the existence of my ADD (i was diagnosed because a teacher brought a doctor to

the school for me.) or worse says vague things like " you grew out of that years

ago " (like a 11 year old has " years ago " in which to grow out of something) or " I

am not sure that doctor really knew what he was talking about " etc. she denies

(and used to deny daily) that I was being severely bullied. she denies that I

was mistreated at home by my siblings. and she denied the existence of a serious

medical issue, and insisted that the symptoms of it were a ploy for attention,

or defiance etc. as an adult I have found a very efficient treatment for my

problem, but as everyone still defends her with " i'ts just a habit " she still

shames me for her expectation of the symptoms.

>

> my mom believes that all of my feelings present and past are an

" over-reaction " or a manifestation of the " chip on my shoulder " because of that

all my siblings had to do whenever they wanted to pick on me was to get a

reaction. because then i was the one in trouble. and she would top it off with

" I'm not going to fight your battles " and if on rare occasions she bothered to

punish them it was always prefaced with " I know she over-reacted but... "

>

> my theory is that her creation and loathing of my personality is just one huge

projection. if I am the one with " bad feelings " than everything she feels is

justified.

>

> my fear is that no one will ever believe me. I was so carefully groomed to

doubt my feelings that I still doubt them myself sometimes.

>

> and I am afraid that my FOO will think that I am wrong to be mad at our mom.

and worse, that I am just " wanting to be the victim " (another of her favorite

accusations) the perceptions she created are still popular in my family even if

they are faded a bit.

>

> how do I express what I want to people who think I can't fee properly?

>

>