nada conversations

June 28, 2011

For my Father's Day, our son was in the early days of his broken leg and I was

taking it very hard myself, so I did not take calls from nada nor try to call my

dad. I could not take the chance of sharing my pain in chance conversation. When

I was ready, I returned a call this weekend, while my family were watching a

program I am not so wild about. Before Doc came on, which we all love.

I wanted to say this, I had another nada moment tonight. Therapist told me not

to deal with nada while she (therapist) is away. Kind of trapped at home right

now with my son and his broken leg, and sometimes taking the phone, not avoiding

it, feels empowering to me. When I race for the phone and find out it is nada,

sometimes I answer just to get the communication over with. When I take a phone

call it often gives me several weeks' respite from nada; she stops trying and

trying throughout the days.

I would like to be a good daughter and help my mom through grieving the loss of

her last " original " brother. (There are half-siblings that are 9 and more years

younger than my mom that are all quite alive and well.) I soon discovered my mom

was in a time warp about which of her brother's she is mourning the death of. I

was surprised to find that while I was commiserating with her about my uncle A,

she was talking about her other brother, my Uncle W. He died almost four years

ago! But then I realized deaths are funny that way. Uncle A's was as much a

surprise to her as Uncle W's. And Uncle W had an inheritance that was a

challenge to sell and it sold coincidentally with the death of my Uncle A, last

month, six weeks ago now.

In the midst of our reminiscing about her brothers, I brought up my dad and how

glad I was for how his angina was handled over 30 years ago (Uncle A died from

heart problems compounded by renal problems, ascites (?).. some of which I still

find hard to understand, but that I know my mom can relate to.). In a

spontaneous moment my mom decided in the conversation to call my dad to the

phone. She let him on long enough to say hi, and I did not even get to finish

telling him I missed him... before she grabbed the line back. Or he handed it

over to her passively. Either way, I felt done. Robbed. I basically get one

time a year to talk to my dad... and I felt loss all over again.

It may be exactly what they are both all to used to: she wanted to get back to

her topics of conversation, but I was still missing my dad. But I know better

than to ask for what I want. Because it will just lead to unresolved anger for

me. When she said, " Dad is working on one of his projects....and can't talk

long. " I mean, she could have called at a time when my dad could come to the

phone. Or she could stop always needing to have control. But no. So I asserted

myself this way, I very nicely, and with warmth in my voice, said, " I have a

project to return to, too, so I'll say good-bye. " And despite her protests, I

said a kind good-bye. I know I could have said, " I'll talk with you again, when

dad has more time to come to the phone. " But this was a start for me.

And I said good-bye so that I would not miss joining my family in a favorite

(and rare) program on t.v. Gently, with no remorse. I did feel a bit odd that

I had not shared my son has a broken leg. But then, I might hear from nada every

day asking about him. Her thinking I should always be at home ready for her

calls, with no legitimate excuse to be out!

Today, she called back, and I decided to take it, because I knew I could make my

part in the conversation short, if it was not a new doctor calling me back, who

might also show up as private caller. I told my nada that I'd need to get off

the phone to deal with American express (true). She quickly wished me a Happy

Birthday (she neglected to do so the last time she called the day before my

birthday)... but then jumped to some thought that she expected me to know the

context for, without being told! She got in one sentence. " And you had better

watch it and stop doing that kind of thing because you know you are stupid? " I

did not need a tongue-lashing, and nor did I care to know EXACTLY what she was

calling about. So I said, Good-bye mom and hung up the phone.

On one hand, I needed to share this story. It helps me to see that nothing is

really capable of changing with her, unless I change.

Changing for me, means setting boundaries that take care of me. I used to mean

that meant, telling nada when she was violating a boundary or mistreating me. I

could sure use some experience, strength and hope from someone who has found

ways to make progress in lame conversations like the ones I am describing. Right

now, I find I don't have much desire to set boundaries in a more productive way,

because I have tried for too long... to try to turn the Titanic around, but nada

has no interest in facing the reality that SHE is making things inhospitable.

She truly thinks I am to blame for the division between us... because I have

moved so far away, and I don't allow her much access to me. I know she has

figured out some formula in her head too, as to why I can't talk freely to my

dad.

I now refuse to argue, and I just get off the phone as soon as I pick up her

need to dump her crap on my doorstep and tell me that HER crap is MY crap.

Trying my best to live at peace with an unsolved problem.

Best,

June 29, 2011

" Good daughter "

What is a good daughter? And if your mother is mentally ill and abusive, how

is it possible to be one?

This is the kind of belief that has held me back a lot in my life. My T

helped me with this by having me ask myself " is this my belief that I should

be a good daughter? Is it my belief that X defines a good daughter? "

If its not my belief, then I dump the idea.

I would dump this one. It can't help anyone. I think good daughter is

someone who embraces her life, enjoys it and lets no one come between her

and her dreams.

My nada and dad on the other hand though would define it as someone who

drops everything they care about to be at their beck and call.

Which one really is the good daughter? Letting a mentally ill parent dump on

you does NOT make you a good daughter. I also think this is a belief from

another time - when kids were born to work their parents fields etc etc.

Well, the economy has changed, cultural beliefs have changed, and in my

opinion my nada's perception of a good daughter is actually a stupid

brainwashed daughter. . .

Sorry that phrase is totally the type of thing that triggers me. I've heard

it so many many times. I have no interest in being a good daughter ie

punching bag for my PD parent. I've seen what she did to me in the past and

I've also seen what she can do to other people who allow themselves to fall

into her trap. I'm done being a good daughter.

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:02 PM, V.S. wrote:

> **

>

> For my Father's Day, our son was in the early days of his broken leg and I

> was taking it very hard myself, so I did not take calls from nada nor try to

> call my dad. I could not take the chance of sharing my pain in chance

> conversation. When I was ready, I returned a call this weekend, while my

> family were watching a program I am not so wild about. Before Doc

> came on, which we all love.

>

> I wanted to say this, I had another nada moment tonight. Therapist told me

> not to deal with nada while she (therapist) is away. Kind of trapped at home

> right now with my son and his broken leg, and sometimes taking the phone,

> not avoiding it, feels empowering to me. When I race for the phone and find

> out it is nada, sometimes I answer just to get the communication over with.

> When I take a phone call it often gives me several weeks' respite from nada;

> she stops trying and trying throughout the days.

>

> I would like to be a good daughter and help my mom through grieving the

> loss of her last " original " brother. (There are half-siblings that are 9 and

> more years younger than my mom that are all quite alive and well.) I soon

> discovered my mom was in a time warp about which of her brother's she is

> mourning the death of. I was surprised to find that while I was

> commiserating with her about my uncle A, she was talking about her other

> brother, my Uncle W. He died almost four years ago! But then I realized

> deaths are funny that way. Uncle A's was as much a surprise to her as Uncle

> W's. And Uncle W had an inheritance that was a challenge to sell and it sold

> coincidentally with the death of my Uncle A, last month, six weeks ago now.

>

> In the midst of our reminiscing about her brothers, I brought up my dad and

> how glad I was for how his angina was handled over 30 years ago (Uncle A

> died from heart problems compounded by renal problems, ascites (?).. some of

> which I still find hard to understand, but that I know my mom can relate

> to.). In a spontaneous moment my mom decided in the conversation to call my

> dad to the phone. She let him on long enough to say hi, and I did not even

> get to finish telling him I missed him... before she grabbed the line back.

> Or he handed it over to her passively. Either way, I felt done. Robbed. I

> basically get one time a year to talk to my dad... and I felt loss all over

> again.

>

> It may be exactly what they are both all to used to: she wanted to get back

> to her topics of conversation, but I was still missing my dad. But I know

> better than to ask for what I want. Because it will just lead to unresolved

> anger for me. When she said, " Dad is working on one of his projects....and

> can't talk long. " I mean, she could have called at a time when my dad could

> come to the phone. Or she could stop always needing to have control. But no.

> So I asserted myself this way, I very nicely, and with warmth in my voice,

> said, " I have a project to return to, too, so I'll say good-bye. " And

> despite her protests, I said a kind good-bye. I know I could have said,

> " I'll talk with you again, when dad has more time to come to the phone. " But

> this was a start for me.

>

> And I said good-bye so that I would not miss joining my family in a

> favorite (and rare) program on t.v. Gently, with no remorse. I did feel a

> bit odd that I had not shared my son has a broken leg. But then, I might

> hear from nada every day asking about him. Her thinking I should always be

> at home ready for her calls, with no legitimate excuse to be out!

>

> Today, she called back, and I decided to take it, because I knew I could

> make my part in the conversation short, if it was not a new doctor calling

> me back, who might also show up as private caller. I told my nada that I'd

> need to get off the phone to deal with American express (true). She quickly

> wished me a Happy Birthday (she neglected to do so the last time she called

> the day before my birthday)... but then jumped to some thought that she

> expected me to know the context for, without being told! She got in one

> sentence. " And you had better watch it and stop doing that kind of thing

> because you know you are stupid? " I did not need a tongue-lashing, and nor

> did I care to know EXACTLY what she was calling about. So I said, Good-bye

> mom and hung up the phone.

>

> On one hand, I needed to share this story. It helps me to see that nothing

> is really capable of changing with her, unless I change.

>

> Changing for me, means setting boundaries that take care of me. I used to

> mean that meant, telling nada when she was violating a boundary or

> mistreating me. I could sure use some experience, strength and hope from

> someone who has found ways to make progress in lame conversations like the

> ones I am describing. Right now, I find I don't have much desire to set

> boundaries in a more productive way, because I have tried for too long... to

> try to turn the Titanic around, but nada has no interest in facing the

> reality that SHE is making things inhospitable.

>

> She truly thinks I am to blame for the division between us... because I

> have moved so far away, and I don't allow her much access to me. I know she

> has figured out some formula in her head too, as to why I can't talk freely

> to my dad.

>

> I now refuse to argue, and I just get off the phone as soon as I pick up

> her need to dump her crap on my doorstep and tell me that HER crap is MY

> crap.

>

> Trying my best to live at peace with an unsolved problem.

>

> Best,

>

June 29, 2011

" I could not take the chance of sharing my pain in chance conversation. "

, as I was reading your post, I so related to everything you were

saying. Your mother sounds so much like mine, like a verbal diarrhea machine,

who feels entitled to be endlessly listened to and does absolutely no listening

or connecting of her own.

I also have to gird myself before I talk to her b/c I don't want her to sense

any of how I truly feel about anything. What she's done consistently in the past

is seize upon it and make me feel stupid for sharing it.

When you mentioned about your dad...sigh...that was our relationship, a sick

triangulation. I had no relationship with my dad. If she saw us talking, she had

to know right away what we were saying. She would do it in her cutesy, smile on

her face way, intruding on us. Until he died, she did this. But as you said,

( " or he handed the phone back to her, passively " ), my father had a part in this,

allowing my mother to be the dominant force in the family. He was no wimp by any

means. Definitely scary temper, you did as he said and nada did as he said, but

when it came to us kids, she was our main " contact. "

And you're right, your mother called when your father was in the middle of one

of his projects b/c she wanted control, and somewhere deep, doesn't want you to

have a relationship with your father. It's very sad. I know that's how my mother

was.

Good for you for asserting yourself with her on the phone. That's something I've

had to build up to. I'm doing much better but do have days when I'm a wimp.

I'm the same re: not sharing about stuff, like one time my daughter had a tick

on her head. If I'd told my mother, she would have called me incessantly to ask

if any symptoms were showing. I know she means well, but it's draining. She is

draining.

" I could sure use some experience, strength and hope from someone who has found

ways to make progress in lame conversations like the ones I am describing. "

Me, too!!

" Changing for me, means setting boundaries that take care of me. " Yes, that is

what I want. She and I are NC and that could change soon, but i'm enjoying it

IMMENSELY right now.

Thanks for sharing, . Forget " Twilight " ; we have our own vampires,

trying their best to suck the life out of us!!

Fiona

>

> For my Father's Day, our son was in the early days of his broken leg and I was

taking it very hard myself, so I did not take calls from nada nor try to call my

dad. I could not take the chance of sharing my pain in chance conversation. When

I was ready, I returned a call this weekend, while my family were watching a

program I am not so wild about. Before Doc came on, which we all love.

>

> I wanted to say this, I had another nada moment tonight. Therapist told me not

to deal with nada while she (therapist) is away. Kind of trapped at home right

now with my son and his broken leg, and sometimes taking the phone, not avoiding

it, feels empowering to me. When I race for the phone and find out it is nada,

sometimes I answer just to get the communication over with. When I take a phone

call it often gives me several weeks' respite from nada; she stops trying and

trying throughout the days.

>

> I would like to be a good daughter and help my mom through grieving the loss

of her last " original " brother. (There are half-siblings that are 9 and more

years younger than my mom that are all quite alive and well.) I soon discovered

my mom was in a time warp about which of her brother's she is mourning the death

of. I was surprised to find that while I was commiserating with her about my

uncle A, she was talking about her other brother, my Uncle W. He died almost

four years ago! But then I realized deaths are funny that way. Uncle A's was as

much a surprise to her as Uncle W's. And Uncle W had an inheritance that was a

challenge to sell and it sold coincidentally with the death of my Uncle A, last

month, six weeks ago now.

>

> In the midst of our reminiscing about her brothers, I brought up my dad and

how glad I was for how his angina was handled over 30 years ago (Uncle A died

from heart problems compounded by renal problems, ascites (?).. some of which I

still find hard to understand, but that I know my mom can relate to.). In a