New, and glad there is a group like this.

[Guest guest]

My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of my adult

life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting her, and at

least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because of a phone

call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an event I was

" volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest daughter,

son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last night, my

office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking, so I was

asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no one else would

talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an emotional wreck

afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out about the whole

thing today because of something someone said on Facebook. When she called me,

she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she wasn't surprised, since

she is always left out. Then she hung up. I (foolishly) tried to call back and

explain why, but she just started crying and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just

go be alone. " I get so sick of this. I didn't want anyone to know about being

on TV or being asked to lead it. I had to hold it together in front of a crowd,

and just wanted to go home to my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I

am tired of having to try and remember constantly that I should be letting her

know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions,

and not being allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group. What you described sounds all too familiar. With bpd

parents, its always all about their needs and their feelings, no matter what.

They seem to lack the capacity for empathy for other people's needs and

feelings, particularly anything involving their own children.

I'm so sorry you went through such a traumatic incident and then got more trauma

dumped on you by your mother (Note: some of us tend to refer to bpd moms as

" nadas " here, for " not a mom " .)

Educating yourself about bpd, reading up about it can be very helpful in

learning how to set boundaries with your bpd mom to protect yourself, and in

learning to not take their behaviors so personally.

Knowledge is power.

Be gentle with yourself, and again, my condolences.

-Annie

>

> My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of my

adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting her, and

at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because of a phone

call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an event I was

" volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest daughter,

son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last night, my

office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking, so I was

asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no one else would

talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an emotional wreck

afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out about the whole

thing today because of something someone said on Facebook. When she called me,

she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she wasn't surprised, since

she is always left out. Then she hung up. I (foolishly) tried to call back and

explain why, but she just started crying and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just

go be alone. " I get so sick of this. I didn't want anyone to know about being

on TV or being asked to lead it. I had to hold it together in front of a crowd,

and just wanted to go home to my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I

am tired of having to try and remember constantly that I should be letting her

know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions,

and not being allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

>

[Guest guest]

Hugs and welcome to the group.

It sounds like you were emotionally exhausted and a nice behavior from her would

have been to call you and see if YOU were okay, after that event, rather than

trying to put the negative emotions of guilt and blame on you.

I am sorry about the tragedy, please keep posting and reading. I have been

around the block with support groups/counselors/ you name it for 2 decades and

this group is probably the most helpful resource I have ever found, after AA for

quitting drinking, this group has given me a sense of reality that I have not

been able to find available anywhere.

>

> My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of my

adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting her, and

at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because of a phone

call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an event I was

" volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest daughter,

son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last night, my

office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking, so I was

asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no one else would

talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an emotional wreck

afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out about the whole

thing today because of something someone said on Facebook. When she called me,

she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she wasn't surprised, since

she is always left out. Then she hung up. I (foolishly) tried to call back and

explain why, but she just started crying and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just

go be alone. " I get so sick of this. I didn't want anyone to know about being

on TV or being asked to lead it. I had to hold it together in front of a crowd,

and just wanted to go home to my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I

am tired of having to try and remember constantly that I should be letting her

know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions,

and not being allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi keltnerjen,

Welcome to the group. I'm very, very sorry for your loss. How awful for that

family, their families, and everyone who knew them.

You know what really stands out to me is how your mom has made the horrifically

tragic death of a young family about HER suffering, playing the martyr.

Sounds like my nada. When you said, " I am tired of having to try and remember

constantly I should be letting her know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired

of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not being allowed to have my own. "

I can't add anything to that. That's where I'm at. I can't go on with status

quo. It's draining.

Fiona

>

> My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of my

adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting her, and

at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because of a phone

call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an event I was

" volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest daughter,

son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last night, my

office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking, so I was

asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no one else would

talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an emotional wreck

afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out about the whole

thing today because of something someone said on Facebook. When she called me,

she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she wasn't surprised, since

she is always left out. Then she hung up. I (foolishly) tried to call back and

explain why, but she just started crying and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just

go be alone. " I get so sick of this. I didn't want anyone to know about being

on TV or being asked to lead it. I had to hold it together in front of a crowd,

and just wanted to go home to my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I

am tired of having to try and remember constantly that I should be letting her

know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions,

and not being allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you to everyone who responded for their kind words. My mom actually

seemed to really have it together when we were kids, which now I know she was

fighting back really hard (she and I have had long discussions). Yes, there

were moments when I wondered " what is wrong? " but for the most part, my mom was

present, and worked hard to be a very good mom. Then, as we got into adulthood,

things really changed. As each of us has " left the nest " , she has gotten

progressively worse, and has a harder time keeping herself together.

I did go over to my parent's last night, because some of the things she said

when she apologized a few hours later (that is also getting tiring), made me

really worry about her. My dad was already on it, and we are pretty sure that

the new med (Geodon) that her therapist started her on was doing more harm than

good - I HATE the medication testing her therapist tries to do - so they were

going to the hospital so she could talk to someone. I don't know if she'll be

admitted, but I kind of hope she will because she is always a little more

balanced after she's stayed a few days inpatient.

I guess I'm just dreading the months ahead, because my younger sister and her

husband (in their mid 20s) have lived with my fam for a little over a year, and

are on the road to getting a place to live. This has all happened in the last

two weeks, and I am pretty sure that has more to do with my mom's recent mood

swings than the medication. It always seems to be my younger sister that

triggers these episodes. Last year (about the same time) it was her wedding.

Two years ago it was her moving to go to grad school. A couple of years before

that it was her being in Germany during her birthday. It just gets really

exhausting. I know it is because of my sister being the youngest and because of

the abandonment issues that go along with BPD, but I am a fixer by nature, and I

hate that I can't make her better. Sorry I got a little long winded in my thank

you. I'm going to keep reading and posting, I hope it will help me vent a

little.

> >

> > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of my

adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting her, and

at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because of a phone

call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an event I was

" volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest daughter,

son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last night, my

office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking, so I was

asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no one else would

talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an emotional wreck

afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out about the whole

thing today because of something someone said on Facebook. When she called me,

she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she wasn't surprised, since

she is always left out. Then she hung up. I (foolishly) tried to call back and

explain why, but she just started crying and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just

go be alone. " I get so sick of this. I didn't want anyone to know about being

on TV or being asked to lead it. I had to hold it together in front of a crowd,

and just wanted to go home to my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I

am tired of having to try and remember constantly that I should be letting her

know so that she doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions,

and not being allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In my book you are a bad ass for taking that on!!!

> **

>

>

>

>

> Thank you to everyone who responded for their kind words. My mom actually

> seemed to really have it together when we were kids, which now I know she

> was fighting back really hard (she and I have had long discussions). Yes,

> there were moments when I wondered " what is wrong? " but for the most part,

> my mom was present, and worked hard to be a very good mom. Then, as we got

> into adulthood, things really changed. As each of us has " left the nest " ,

> she has gotten progressively worse, and has a harder time keeping herself

> together.

>

> I did go over to my parent's last night, because some of the things she

> said when she apologized a few hours later (that is also getting tiring),

> made me really worry about her. My dad was already on it, and we are pretty

> sure that the new med (Geodon) that her therapist started her on was doing

> more harm than good - I HATE the medication testing her therapist tries to

> do - so they were going to the hospital so she could talk to someone. I

> don't know if she'll be admitted, but I kind of hope she will because she is

> always a little more balanced after she's stayed a few days inpatient.

>

> I guess I'm just dreading the months ahead, because my younger sister and

> her husband (in their mid 20s) have lived with my fam for a little over a

> year, and are on the road to getting a place to live. This has all happened

> in the last two weeks, and I am pretty sure that has more to do with my

> mom's recent mood swings than the medication. It always seems to be my

> younger sister that triggers these episodes. Last year (about the same time)

> it was her wedding. Two years ago it was her moving to go to grad school. A

> couple of years before that it was her being in Germany during her birthday.

> It just gets really exhausting. I know it is because of my sister being the

> youngest and because of the abandonment issues that go along with BPD, but I

> am a fixer by nature, and I hate that I can't make her better. Sorry I got a

> little long winded in my thank you. I'm going to keep reading and posting, I

> hope it will help me vent a little.

>

>

> > >

> > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of

> my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting

> her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group because

> of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling her about an

> event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest

> daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently. Last

> night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the speaking,

> so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no

> one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was an

> emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found out

> about the whole thing today because of something someone said on Facebook.

> When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said that she

> wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up. I

> (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just started crying

> and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so sick of this.

> I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to lead it. I

> had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to go home to

> my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of having to try

> and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that she

> doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not being

> allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's the damnedest thing, when a BPD steps on *your* foot, * you're* the

one who had better apologize to them !!!

Your Nada's sense of entitlement, and total lack of compassion is simply

astonishing!

You performed a tremendous act of friendship and compassion, and a

genuine act of loving kindness, under difficult circumstances, with grace

and dignity. You stood up in the trenches, sat aside your own feelings of

self-consciousness, and gave the gift *of* yourself, when no one else could

find it within themself to do so.

Instead of recognizing the emotional toll this took, commending your

selfless poise, and compassion, and expressing concern for your employers

mind numbing loss, she focuses on her own *manufactured* hurt feelings. The

world must revolve around the BPD, or not revolve at all.

My thoughts, and best wishes are with you and your employers family

during this painful and difficult time. Sunspot

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> In my book you are a bad ass for taking that on!!!

>

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you to everyone who responded for their kind words. My mom actually

> > seemed to really have it together when we were kids, which now I know she

> > was fighting back really hard (she and I have had long discussions). Yes,

> > there were moments when I wondered " what is wrong? " but for the most

> part,

> > my mom was present, and worked hard to be a very good mom. Then, as we

> got

> > into adulthood, things really changed. As each of us has " left the nest " ,

> > she has gotten progressively worse, and has a harder time keeping herself

> > together.

> >

> > I did go over to my parent's last night, because some of the things she

> > said when she apologized a few hours later (that is also getting tiring),

> > made me really worry about her. My dad was already on it, and we are

> pretty

> > sure that the new med (Geodon) that her therapist started her on was

> doing

> > more harm than good - I HATE the medication testing her therapist tries

> to

> > do - so they were going to the hospital so she could talk to someone. I

> > don't know if she'll be admitted, but I kind of hope she will because she

> is

> > always a little more balanced after she's stayed a few days inpatient.

> >

> > I guess I'm just dreading the months ahead, because my younger sister and

> > her husband (in their mid 20s) have lived with my fam for a little over a

> > year, and are on the road to getting a place to live. This has all

> happened

> > in the last two weeks, and I am pretty sure that has more to do with my

> > mom's recent mood swings than the medication. It always seems to be my

> > younger sister that triggers these episodes. Last year (about the same

> time)

> > it was her wedding. Two years ago it was her moving to go to grad school.

> A

> > couple of years before that it was her being in Germany during her

> birthday.

> > It just gets really exhausting. I know it is because of my sister being

> the

> > youngest and because of the abandonment issues that go along with BPD,

> but I

> > am a fixer by nature, and I hate that I can't make her better. Sorry I

> got a

> > little long winded in my thank you. I'm going to keep reading and

> posting, I

> > hope it will help me vent a little.

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of

> > my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting

> > her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group

> because

> > of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling her about

> an

> > event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest

> > daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently.

> Last

> > night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the

> speaking,

> > so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no

> > one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was

> an

> > emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found

> out

> > about the whole thing today because of something someone said on

> Facebook.

> > When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said that

> she

> > wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up. I

> > (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just started

> crying

> > and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so sick of

> this.

> > I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to lead it.

> I

> > had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to go home

> to

> > my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of having to

> try

> > and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that she

> > doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not

> being

> > allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it's so clear to me it's repressed trauma. them creating a situation or drama by

agitating someone or offending them, then creating in that person the emotions

they were terrified as a child, then having their dramatic reaction, then the

mea culpas and you hurt me you hurt me you hurt me, then the apologies from the

innocent unknowing offender, and on and on and on, all around the mulberry bush,

and the situation never ever gets better, the bpd never gets better, because the

bpd CAN'T for whatever reason, unearth the trauma and get themselves better,

because they are psychologically impaired, not in an incidental way, but that

their ENTIRE psychology is arranged around the repressed trauma, to both

hallucinate it into daily life whenever possible, and to keep it buried and

hidden from the self at all costs. They are essentially permanently impaled on

this trauma, for life. It's devastating to think about, but just like with

addicts and alcoholics, enabling never makes it better, it just drains the

enabler of their will to live.

> > > > >

> > > > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled most of

> > > my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from upsetting

> > > her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group

> > because

> > > of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling her about

> > an

> > > event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses' youngest

> > > daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident recently.

> > Last

> > > night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the

> > speaking,

> > > so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed, because no

> > > one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I was

> > an

> > > emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom found

> > out

> > > about the whole thing today because of something someone said on

> > Facebook.

> > > When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said that

> > she

> > > wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up. I

> > > (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just started

> > crying

> > > and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so sick of

> > this.

> > > I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to lead it.

> > I

> > > had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to go home

> > to

> > > my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of having to

> > try

> > > and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that she

> > > doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not

> > being

> > > allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i was always asking my counselor " How much of this can nada help? " " Is she

even capable of changing? " i told him i would understand better if she had

an intellectual disability, but she doesn't. my counselor said " think of

her as emotionally retarded " .

that helped put it in perspective. because to think of it as an " illness "

is to hold out hope that they can get better. thinking of nada as

permanently impaired has freed me from wishful thinking. my counselor also

encouraged me to think in terms of managing her rather than being in a

relationship. that was also VERY helpful. if a two year old has a tantrum

you don't try to use logic or negotiate. the same principle is true with

nada. i wish i had learned that lesson a lot sooner! before that I was

banging my head against the proverbial wall. now she is rewarded for good

behavior/observing boundaries, and experiences " time out " (time away from

me) when she screws up. she still doesn't always get it right, but she is

learning that I, on the other hand, am VERY consistent.

it is critical to note that if you use the time out thing you can't call it

that to nada. i generally tell her that i am going to take a break for a

week and will call her on or after a certain day. i give a basic

explanation, and do not invite debate. " i asked you not to criticize me,

and you have been unable to stop. so I am going to take a break for a week.

i'll call you next Sunday. " that way it doesn't trigger her abandonment

paranoia. i have learned not to trigger her abandonment paranoia out of

self-preservation. to ignore this dynamic is to invite great suffering and

grief upon myself because nada will stalk me.

i have gone LC. i talk to her on the phone a few times a month, and see her

twice a year even though she only lives an hour away. i realize some of

you have gone NC with your nadas. if it is working and they are actually

leaving you alone, i say Great! but, if your nada is like mine, she will

hunt you down, contact your friends, coworkers and acquaintances, and

literally stop at nothing until she has gotten your attention again. mine

will threaten to cut me out of her life, which is funny because she would

never grant me such peace.

> **

>

>

> it's so clear to me it's repressed trauma. them creating a situation or

> drama by agitating someone or offending them, then creating in that person

> the emotions they were terrified as a child, then having their dramatic

> reaction, then the mea culpas and you hurt me you hurt me you hurt me, then

> the apologies from the innocent unknowing offender, and on and on and on,

> all around the mulberry bush, and the situation never ever gets better, the

> bpd never gets better, because the bpd CAN'T for whatever reason, unearth

> the trauma and get themselves better, because they are psychologically

> impaired, not in an incidental way, but that their ENTIRE psychology is

> arranged around the repressed trauma, to both hallucinate it into daily life

> whenever possible, and to keep it buried and hidden from the self at all

> costs. They are essentially permanently impaled on this trauma, for life.

> It's devastating to think about, but just like with addicts and alcoholics,

> enabling never makes it better, it just drains the enabler of their will to

> live.

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled

> most of

> > > > my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from

> upsetting

> > > > her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group

> > > because

> > > > of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling her

> about

> > > an

> > > > event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses'

> youngest

> > > > daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident

> recently.

> > > Last

> > > > night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the

> > > speaking,

> > > > so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed,

> because no

> > > > one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I

> was

> > > an

> > > > emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom

> found

> > > out

> > > > about the whole thing today because of something someone said on

> > > Facebook.

> > > > When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said

> that

> > > she

> > > > wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up. I

> > > > (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just started

> > > crying

> > > > and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so sick

> of

> > > this.

> > > > I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to lead

> it.

> > > I

> > > > had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to go

> home

> > > to

> > > > my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of having

> to

> > > try

> > > > and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that she

> > > > doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not

> > > being

> > > > allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi KF,

That is very inspiring, it sounds to me like you have a very good handle on your

bpd mother's condition, and how to handle your relationship with her

effectively. I too think its just more realistic and humane to think of the

older or elderly bpd individual as having a permanent impairment (along the

lines of " emotional retardation " ) instead of an illness (like a flu) that can

get better.

With children and young people, I think early intervention in the form of

intensive therapy and meds if deemed appropriate can make some real

improvements, but, I just don't think that's possible in older people who have

gone untreated their whole life. The behaviors become too ingrained and

intractable.

Its all about what works for you, and what you find tolerable. The fact that

you can do the " time out " or " take a break " boundary enforcement in a positive

way, is wonderful.

Thank you for sharing this with us, its so encouraging to know that some of us

can find ways to have at least some kind of a relationship with our bpd parent,

without sustaining fresh injury. That's awesome.

-Annie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled

> > most of

> > > > > my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from

> > upsetting

> > > > > her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this group

> > > > because

> > > > > of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling her

> > about

> > > > an

> > > > > event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses'

> > youngest

> > > > > daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident

> > recently.

> > > > Last

> > > > > night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the

> > > > speaking,

> > > > > so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed,

> > because no

> > > > > one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and I

> > was

> > > > an

> > > > > emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My mom

> > found

> > > > out

> > > > > about the whole thing today because of something someone said on

> > > > Facebook.

> > > > > When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said

> > that

> > > > she

> > > > > wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up. I

> > > > > (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just started

> > > > crying

> > > > > and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so sick

> > of

> > > > this.

> > > > > I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to lead

> > it.

> > > > I

> > > > > had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to go

> > home

> > > > to

> > > > > my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of having

> > to

> > > > try

> > > > > and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that she

> > > > > doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and not

> > > > being

> > > > > allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

it has only taken 40 years

it feels good to be able to share something that might work for someone

else, too!

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 7:02 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi KF,

>

> That is very inspiring, it sounds to me like you have a very good handle on

> your bpd mother's condition, and how to handle your relationship with her

> effectively. I too think its just more realistic and humane to think of the

> older or elderly bpd individual as having a permanent impairment (along the

> lines of " emotional retardation " ) instead of an illness (like a flu) that

> can get better.

> With children and young people, I think early intervention in the form of

> intensive therapy and meds if deemed appropriate can make some real

> improvements, but, I just don't think that's possible in older people who

> have gone untreated their whole life. The behaviors become too ingrained and

> intractable.

>

> Its all about what works for you, and what you find tolerable. The fact

> that you can do the " time out " or " take a break " boundary enforcement in a

> positive way, is wonderful.

>

> Thank you for sharing this with us, its so encouraging to know that some of

> us can find ways to have at least some kind of a relationship with our bpd

> parent, without sustaining fresh injury. That's awesome.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My mom was diagnosed two years ago with BPD. I have struggled

> > > most of

> > > > > > my adult life to communicate with her in a way that keeps from

> > > upsetting

> > > > > > her, and at least now I know why. Today I decided to join this

> group

> > > > > because

> > > > > > of a phone call I received from her berating me for not telling

> her

> > > about

> > > > > an

> > > > > > event I was " volunteered " to lead. Some back story: my bosses'

> > > youngest

> > > > > > daughter, son-in-law, and child were killed in a car accident

> > > recently.

> > > > > Last

> > > > > > night, my office held a vigil for them. No one wanted to lead the

> > > > > speaking,

> > > > > > so I was asked. There were media there, and I was interviewed,

> > > because no

> > > > > > one else would talk. The whole thing lasted about 40 minutes, and

> I

> > > was

> > > > > an

> > > > > > emotional wreck afterwards. So I went home and went to bed. My

> mom

> > > found

> > > > > out

> > > > > > about the whole thing today because of something someone said on

> > > > > Facebook.

> > > > > > When she called me, she yelled at me for not telling her and said

> > > that

> > > > > she

> > > > > > wasn't surprised, since she is always left out. Then she hung up.

> I

> > > > > > (foolishly) tried to call back and explain why, but she just

> started

> > > > > crying

> > > > > > and said, " really, it's okay, I'll just go be alone. " I get so

> sick

> > > of

> > > > > this.

> > > > > > I didn't want anyone to know about being on TV or being asked to

> lead

> > > it.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > had to hold it together in front of a crowd, and just wanted to

> go

> > > home

> > > > > to

> > > > > > my own child and husband, emote, and go to bed. I am tired of

> having

> > > to

> > > > > try

> > > > > > and remember constantly that I should be letting her know so that

> she

> > > > > > doesn't go off, I am tired of tip-toeing around her emotions, and

> not

> > > > > being

> > > > > > allowed to have my own. Thanks for the place to vent.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

KF,

I think I like your counselor. Emotionally retarded. That is great and

acknowledging that we don't really have relationships as much as managed

relations is sooooo true. I had to let go of all the dreams I had of EVER having

a normal relationship and just try to manage with the one I have. I would love

it if she got in with a therapist that understood her disorder, but according to

her, she doesn't have a problem...she just thinks that no one understands her or

treats her right! Yeah, right.

>

> i was always asking my counselor " How much of this can nada help? " " Is she

> even capable of changing? " i told him i would understand better if she had

> an intellectual disability, but she doesn't. my counselor said " think of

> her as emotionally retarded " .

>

> that helped put it in perspective. because to think of it as an " illness "

> is to hold out hope that they can get better. thinking of nada as

> permanently impaired has freed me from wishful thinking. my counselor also

> encouraged me to think in terms of managing her rather than being in a

> relationship. that was also VERY helpful. if a two year old has a tantrum

> you don't try to use logic or negotiate. the same principle is true with

> nada. i wish i had learned that lesson a lot sooner! before that I was

> banging my head against the proverbial wall. now she is rewarded for good

> behavior/observing boundaries, and experiences " time out " (time away from

> me) when she screws up. she still doesn't always get it right, but she is

> learning that I, on the other hand, am VERY consistent.

>

> it is critical to note that if you use the time out thing you can't call it

> that to nada. i generally tell her that i am going to take a break for a

> week and will call her on or after a certain day. i give a basic

> explanation, and do not invite debate. " i asked you not to criticize me,

> and you have been unable to stop. so I am going to take a break for a week.

> i'll call you next Sunday. " that way it doesn't trigger her abandonment

> paranoia. i have learned not to trigger her abandonment paranoia out of

> self-preservation. to ignore this dynamic is to invite great suffering and

> grief upon myself because nada will stalk me.

>

> i have gone LC. i talk to her on the phone a few times a month, and see her

> twice a year even though she only lives an hour away. i realize some of

> you have gone NC with your nadas. if it is working and they are actually

> leaving you alone, i say Great! but, if your nada is like mine, she will

> hunt you down, contact your friends, coworkers and acquaintances, and

> literally stop at nothing until she has gotten your attention again. mine

> will threaten to cut me out of her life, which is funny because she would

> never grant me such peace.

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds exactly like my Mom - apparently we all have the problem while she gets

away scott free! How annoying.

N

> KF,

>

> I think I like your counselor. Emotionally retarded. That is great and

acknowledging that we don't really have relationships as much as managed

relations is sooooo true. I had to let go of all the dreams I had of EVER having

a normal relationship and just try to manage with the one I have. I would love

it if she got in with a therapist that understood her disorder, but according to

her, she doesn't have a problem...she just thinks that no one understands her or

treats her right! Yeah, right.

>

>

> >

> > i was always asking my counselor " How much of this can nada help? " " Is she

> > even capable of changing? " i told him i would understand better if she had

> > an intellectual disability, but she doesn't. my counselor said " think of

> > her as emotionally retarded " .

> >

> > that helped put it in perspective. because to think of it as an " illness "

> > is to hold out hope that they can get better. thinking of nada as

> > permanently impaired has freed me from wishful thinking. my counselor also

> > encouraged me to think in terms of managing her rather than being in a

> > relationship. that was also VERY helpful. if a two year old has a tantrum

> > you don't try to use logic or negotiate. the same principle is true with

> > nada. i wish i had learned that lesson a lot sooner! before that I was

> > banging my head against the proverbial wall. now she is rewarded for good

> > behavior/observing boundaries, and experiences " time out " (time away from

> > me) when she screws up. she still doesn't always get it right, but she is

> > learning that I, on the other hand, am VERY consistent.

> >

> > it is critical to note that if you use the time out thing you can't call it

> > that to nada. i generally tell her that i am going to take a break for a

> > week and will call her on or after a certain day. i give a basic

> > explanation, and do not invite debate. " i asked you not to criticize me,

> > and you have been unable to stop. so I am going to take a break for a week.

> > i'll call you next Sunday. " that way it doesn't trigger her abandonment

> > paranoia. i have learned not to trigger her abandonment paranoia out of

> > self-preservation. to ignore this dynamic is to invite great suffering and

> > grief upon myself because nada will stalk me.

> >

> > i have gone LC. i talk to her on the phone a few times a month, and see her

> > twice a year even though she only lives an hour away. i realize some of

> > you have gone NC with your nadas. if it is working and they are actually

> > leaving you alone, i say Great! but, if your nada is like mine, she will

> > hunt you down, contact your friends, coworkers and acquaintances, and

> > literally stop at nothing until she has gotten your attention again. mine

> > will threaten to cut me out of her life, which is funny because she would

> > never grant me such peace.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes! their lack of insight is maddening!

> **

>

>

> KF,

>

> I think I like your counselor. Emotionally retarded. That is great and

> acknowledging that we don't really have relationships as much as managed

> relations is sooooo true. I had to let go of all the dreams I had of EVER

> having a normal relationship and just try to manage with the one I have. I

> would love it if she got in with a therapist that understood her disorder,

> but according to her, she doesn't have a problem...she just thinks that no

> one understands her or treats her right! Yeah, right.

>

>

>

> >

> > i was always asking my counselor " How much of this can nada help? " " Is

> she

> > even capable of changing? " i told him i would understand better if she

> had

> > an intellectual disability, but she doesn't. my counselor said " think of

> > her as emotionally retarded " .

> >

> > that helped put it in perspective. because to think of it as an " illness "

> > is to hold out hope that they can get better. thinking of nada as

> > permanently impaired has freed me from wishful thinking. my counselor

> also

> > encouraged me to think in terms of managing her rather than being in a

> > relationship. that was also VERY helpful. if a two year old has a tantrum

> > you don't try to use logic or negotiate. the same principle is true with

> > nada. i wish i had learned that lesson a lot sooner! before that I was

> > banging my head against the proverbial wall. now she is rewarded for good

> > behavior/observing boundaries, and experiences " time out " (time away from

> > me) when she screws up. she still doesn't always get it right, but she is

> > learning that I, on the other hand, am VERY consistent.

> >

> > it is critical to note that if you use the time out thing you can't call

> it

> > that to nada. i generally tell her that i am going to take a break for a

> > week and will call her on or after a certain day. i give a basic

> > explanation, and do not invite debate. " i asked you not to criticize me,

> > and you have been unable to stop. so I am going to take a break for a

> week.

> > i'll call you next Sunday. " that way it doesn't trigger her abandonment

> > paranoia. i have learned not to trigger her abandonment paranoia out of

> > self-preservation. to ignore this dynamic is to invite great suffering

> and

> > grief upon myself because nada will stalk me.

> >

> > i have gone LC. i talk to her on the phone a few times a month, and see

> her

> > twice a year even though she only lives an hour away. i realize some of

> > you have gone NC with your nadas. if it is working and they are actually

> > leaving you alone, i say Great! but, if your nada is like mine, she will

> > hunt you down, contact your friends, coworkers and acquaintances, and

> > literally stop at nothing until she has gotten your attention again. mine

> > will threaten to cut me out of her life, which is funny because she would

> > never grant me such peace.

> >

>

>

>