Re: Do you think being a KO has affected your career choice?

[Guest guest]

,

I definitely think that my career choice was affected by my BPD Mom. I knew by

11th grade that I wanted to be a lawyer. I saw " strength " in the women lawyers

on TV. And that's what I wanted to become. I love my profession. I love

knowing right from wrong. I love the fact that there are final judgments that

decide conflicts, that each party has to accept that judgment from the judge.

In my life, I am the type of person who embraces " truth " , embraces " justice " ,

embraces " values " . I think the lies my BPD mom continually told us (4 kids -

I'm the eldest, and we have a 5th half sister living abroad) fueled this

definitely. I'm curious to know what other career choices have been made by

others.

To you all:

On another note, thank you all for welcoming me to this group. I truly feel

honored. Ever since I joined this yesterday, I have been feeling stronger and

more content than ever. The strange thing is that my BPD Mom pulled a stunt on

me (and I found out later, also on my brother) this morning along the lines of

" I'm going to die, please come and save me. " Well, I answered her in a matter

of fact way that she wasn't going to die, and I couldn't come over as I'm busy -

I have 3 children to look after, a home, a husband, and my own law career - I

had a court hearing to go to this morning, but I wasn't going to tell her that

of course as I find that telling her nothing about my life helps tremendously to

minimize conflict. Anyhow, my BPD Mom does most of the calling and ever since I

made a decision to disassociate from her, she has been even more clingy. My BPD

Mom is the " Queen " personality and my Dad is a very accomplished man, very

bright, very smart, a doctor, changed professions to go into government work and

excelled, he is a well respected writer and speaker, internationally as well,

and my Mom is his second wife. He went through a divorce with a foreign wife,

then married my Mom, who is about 20 years younger than he his. He is about 79

years old now. He held a high post in government for a long time and I cannot

for the life of me understand how he could not have diagnosed her these last 35

years! Even now, after I gave him a book to read, and after having spoken to

him extensively about it, after having the psychiatrist himself tell my Dad that

mom has BPD...... still, every time Mom goes beserck, she puts him under her

" spell " and he dutifully calls me, my brother (the " problem " children) and has

these long drawn out conversations on how we should call her, help her, feel

sorry for her, entertain her requests, etc. Any ideas from anyone on how to get

Dad to come around and start to put his foot down? Any way we can get him to

stop reinforcing her behavior? I believe that he is the key to crack this

problem. IF only he would stop reinforcing her behavior , I think she will have

to face the consequences of her own actions, and finally she will come around

and start getting some help from professionals (she stopped seeing the

psychiatrist).

Thank you all SO much for your invaluable insights.

N

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'd agree that our life experiences impact our career choice. Looking back, nada

is definitely part of why I chose the field of social work, but there are few

other experience that led me in that direction as well. It somehow made sense

for me to end up here, and I've learned at about the field and myself. and I'm

pretty good at it. Though I sometimes wonder if I had not had those experiences

would I have had the courage and support to follow one of my other passions that

seem to call to me these days(ie: photography)... a different kind of work all

together that doesn't require me tending to the needs of others in some way...

after spending all that money on school though i'm hesitant to just jump tacks.

-b.

>

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

[Guest guest]

Yes very very very much - so much infact that my parents forbid me from

studying many things they were not comfortable with. They tried to force me

into nursing (a good choice but not what I wanted), into medical technology

(umm put a super creative kid who hates rules in a lab??? I think not), and

worst of all into sewage treatment (its a very stable field according to

fada).

Their choices for me were about making THEM comfortable and preserving my

role of caregiver and family hero. And the things I was interested in -

music, anthropology, english, writing, sociology, psychology etc were

totally unacceptable.

My dad's entire life was built on fear - fear of losing his job and the

belief that the boss was always right. He took the safe path and worked for

the govt for 30 years. It has taken me a long long long time to overcome

some extremely negative career beliefs that he taught me - like sacrifice

myself and my personality for stability. That losing your job is the very

worst thing that can happen and is a permanent scar that you will never

overcome. That you should bow down and kneel before the authority of middle

management. BULLSHIT!

I ended up splitting the difference with them going into Public Health and

running marketing campaigns in that area for the past 13 years. I have every

intention of a future in fashion, art, photography, dance and theater

though. That's where I spend all my free time.

> **

>

>

> I'd agree that our life experiences impact our career choice. Looking back,

> nada is definitely part of why I chose the field of social work, but there

> are few other experience that led me in that direction as well. It somehow

> made sense for me to end up here, and I've learned at about the field and

> myself. and I'm pretty good at it. Though I sometimes wonder if I had not

> had those experiences would I have had the courage and support to follow one

> of my other passions that seem to call to me these days(ie: photography)...

> a different kind of work all together that doesn't require me tending to the

> needs of others in some way... after spending all that money on school

> though i'm hesitant to just jump tacks.

>

> -b.

>

>

> >

> > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

> finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector

> for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

> subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> >

> > What do you all think?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I am a teacher, and the oldest. My mom always did a good job of being

present when we were kids and I didn't suspect anything major then. But, I was

kind of always the voice of reason in the house if my dad weren't there (she did

get these impulsive ideas that seemed strange to me, so I guess that should have

been a clue), and my siblings did ask questions of me a lot. So maybe that had

an effect on my career choice. I am always bending over backward trying to help

my students, especially the hardest to reach. I am sure that has something to do

with the way I grew up, and my more recent experience with my mom.

>

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes the only reason I stuck with nursing was because of all the tuition

money that had already been paid. XD But I think ultimately the career I picked

makes sense for me too. I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sit

there and wonder " what if, " but it's still kind of interesting to think about.

Subject: Re: Do you think being a KO has affected your

career choice?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 5:17 AM

Â

I'd agree that our life experiences impact our career choice. Looking

back, nada is definitely part of why I chose the field of social work, but there

are few other experience that led me in that direction as well. It somehow made

sense for me to end up here, and I've learned at about the field and myself. and

I'm pretty good at it. Though I sometimes wonder if I had not had those

experiences would I have had the courage and support to follow one of my other

passions that seem to call to me these days(ie: photography)... a different kind

of work all together that doesn't require me tending to the needs of others in

some way... after spending all that money on school though i'm hesitant to just

jump tacks.

-b.

>

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

[Guest guest]

Good for you! It's great that you're still involved in your passions!

My nada was actually totally against me going into nursing. She wanted me to be

a teacher, I think because it fit better with her picture of the selfless

nurturing person she wanted me to be (read: her picture of me lying down and

letting her walk all over me). I think maybe because she disliked the field so

much, I was more motivated to get through school as a middle finger salute of

sorts. LOL.

-

Subject: Re: Re: Do you think being a KO has affected your

career choice?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 6:27 AM

Yes very very very much - so much infact that my parents forbid me from

studying many things they were not comfortable with. They tried to force me

into nursing (a good choice but not what I wanted), into medical technology

(umm put a super creative kid who hates rules in a lab??? I think not), and

worst of all into sewage treatment (its a very stable field according to

fada).

Their choices for me were about making THEM comfortable and preserving my

role of caregiver and family hero. And the things I was interested in -

music, anthropology, english, writing, sociology, psychology etc were

totally unacceptable.

My dad's entire life was built on fear - fear of losing his job and the

belief that the boss was always right. He took the safe path and worked for

the govt for 30 years. It has taken me a long long long time to overcome

some extremely negative career beliefs that he taught me - like sacrifice

myself and my personality for stability. That losing your job is the very

worst thing that can happen and is a permanent scar that you will never

overcome. That you should bow down and kneel before the authority of middle

management. BULLSHIT!

I ended up splitting the difference with them going into Public Health and

running marketing campaigns in that area for the past 13 years. I have every

intention of a future in fashion, art, photography, dance and theater

though. That's where I spend all my free time.

> **

>

>

> I'd agree that our life experiences impact our career choice. Looking back,

> nada is definitely part of why I chose the field of social work, but there

> are few other experience that led me in that direction as well. It somehow

> made sense for me to end up here, and I've learned at about the field and

> myself. and I'm pretty good at it. Though I sometimes wonder if I had not

> had those experiences would I have had the courage and support to follow one

> of my other passions that seem to call to me these days(ie: photography)...

> a different kind of work all together that doesn't require me tending to the

> needs of others in some way... after spending all that money on school

> though i'm hesitant to just jump tacks.

>

> -b.

>

>

> >

> > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

> finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector

> for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

> subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> >

> > What do you all think?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My answer RE your question: " Any ideas from anyone on how to get

Dad to come around and start to put his foot down? Any way we can get him to

stop reinforcing her behavior? I believe that he is the key to crack this

problem. IF only he would stop reinforcing her behavior , I think she will have

to face the consequences of her own actions, and finally she will come around

and start getting some help from professionals (she stopped seeing the

psychiatrist). "

....is, unfortunately, no, there aren't any effective ways to urge or persuade

another person to change themselves.

Your dad is apparently comfortable and familiar with his relationship dynamic

with his wife. Its a dysfunctional dance they're doing together, as a couple.

Its working for them.

If the dysfunction reaches the point where the relationship is no longer working

for him and the pain outweighs the pleasure, then he might do something. He

might set up some boundaries. But as long as the relationship is working enough

to suit him (he may have very minimal needs) he has no incentive to change

anything and a lot to risk by making changes.

You can't be his rescuer because he is an adult; he has to want to rescue

himself.

All you can do is make some boundaries of your own. For example, you could

decide that you're no longer available to listen to your dad complain about your

mom, because his refusal to take any positive steps to protect himself upsets

you.

YOU can make that boundary, for yourself. " Dad, I can't listen to this any

longer. I know you're unhappy with mother but I love both of you. Its not fair

to put me in the middle, it upsets me and there's nothing I can do to help,

anyway. I'm not a marriage counselor, and I'm not a psychologist. I hope you

will both go into therapy individually and as a couple and work this out; I want

you both to be happy. So, can we talk about something else? " etc.

Just my two cents' worth, to take or leave.

-Annie

>

> > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> >

> > What do you all think?

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes... my mom prevented me from pursuing any career.

All I wanted to do was study...she would never let me.

She would stand in my doorway and scream at me while I was trying to

concentrate....for years all through my college life. She did not let me go away

to college...wanted to keep me close.

She hated my figure skating career which I trained 6 days a week for 7

years...always trying to get me to quit. Now, I find that my contemporaries who

have stayed with it throughout the years have been successful in the sport as

judges, coaches...at the olympic level.

I could scream.

I gave up everything to make her happy...and it only happened when i got married

to someone acceptable to her and had kids. Then, I was a good girl.

So now, I have no career.

I am super talented...no career. I am 48 and have my self-taught computer

graphics to fall back on, but it's not what I wanted for myself.

I could kick myself around the world for letting her interfere in my every

decision.

How could I have been so innocent...so naive...to let her derail me for so long.

I want a do-over so bad.

Amy

[Guest guest]

I think that growing up with a Nada or Fada certainly colors our choices of

occupation. Well, actually, I can't think of anything in my life it *hasn't

* affected, to either a greater or lesser degree. *Damn**...*

My career choices were definitely colored by her " issues, " and

" constructive input. " When I indicated interest in working with children,

she took me aside, and had a very serious talk with me about how my interest

in children probably stemmed from a " karmic debt, or issue " incurred in

another lifetime, in which I had probably been a " child abuser, " of some

magnitude, and this was the sick/toxic aspect of myself, trying to once more

find access to children in order to brutalize them. I did not pursue that

line of work.

Anytime I found a mentor, an educational program, or the wherewithal to

gather my strength and work toward my own goals, she would interfere through

" concerned " phone calls to bosses, professors or directors, expressing fears

about my fragile state of mental and physical health, or imply concern over

something I had supposedly said about the person whom she was calling, just

to put them on notice that such behavior on their part would not be

tolerated. I had never said, or implied the things which she would attribute

to me. When the person she called was horrified at the accusation attributed

to me, she would tearfully commiserate with them, crying that I had " set her

up again. "

When I went into business for myself, she did her best to interfere,

implying various family members were terminally ill, suffering, etc.

When, late in life, I began working toward a career over which she had

almost no input, relying almost solely on my own creativity, she darn near

imploded, and did her best to shake my belief in myself.

In hindsight, I should have run farther, faster, and never looked back.

I have stupidly built a life around not triggering her issues.

I can only imagine many of us have done something similar. *Damn...*

Sunspot.

> **

>

>

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

> finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector

> for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

> subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

oh boy, can i relate. i never got any sleep during high school because my

mother was either keeping me up all night talking at the end of my bed, or

waking me up to start talking to me in the middle of the night. that

coupled with her refusal to let me have a social life that didn't include

her made for a hellish high school experience. i can't imagine how i

concentrated enough to pass any of my subjects. i'm smart, but i felt

exhausted and emotionally drained all the time. i think i could have done

much better if i had time alone to study, and a lot less drama from nada.

i tried to go away to a small private college but she interrupted that in my

second semester. she harassed me by calling my room at all hours (didn't do

much for my relationship with my assigned dorm mate). when i took the phone

off the hook she learned to call each of the rooms around mine until she

could get another student to come knock on my door...sometimes at 3am. She

would say she was having a heart attack and desperately needed to talk to

me. Guess what...if you're having a heart attack you need an ambulance, not

your daughter who lives three hours away! needless to say i couldn't

concentrate, had strained relationships with my peers, and struggled a lot.

it ended in my second semester with her showing up at my dorm unannounced.

i came home to find all my housemates literally fanning her, getting her

aspirin, and a providing her with cool washcloths because she was having

some sort of episode. when i walked in all i could do was cry, and then

pack.

i eventually graduated from a school close to home. having a mother with

BPD interfered with who i might have become. i've made adjustments and

sacrifices to accomodate her craziness. i've done the best i could, and am

proud that i didn't give up.

i ended up becoming a social worker and have been in a position to help

children who were struggling as i did in my own childhood. sometimes i

wonder what i would have done if i had been supported, intellectually

stimulated, and allowed to follow my own interests.

sadly it seems this is a common story for many of us. i believe we CAN have

a do-over. Figure out what you're interested in and study it now. And for

pete's sake DON'T tell Nada about it. She can't ruin what she doesn't know

about!

> **

>

>

> Yes... my mom prevented me from pursuing any career.

> All I wanted to do was study...she would never let me.

> She would stand in my doorway and scream at me while I was trying to

> concentrate....for years all through my college life. She did not let me go

> away to college...wanted to keep me close.

>

> She hated my figure skating career which I trained 6 days a week for 7

> years...always trying to get me to quit. Now, I find that my contemporaries

> who have stayed with it throughout the years have been successful in the

> sport as judges, coaches...at the olympic level.

>

> I could scream.

>

> I gave up everything to make her happy...and it only happened when i got

> married to someone acceptable to her and had kids. Then, I was a good girl.

>

> So now, I have no career.

> I am super talented...no career. I am 48 and have my self-taught computer

> graphics to fall back on, but it's not what I wanted for myself.

> I could kick myself around the world for letting her interfere in my every

> decision.

> How could I have been so innocent...so naive...to let her derail me for so

> long.

> I want a do-over so bad.

> Amy

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>And for pete's sake DON'T tell Nada about it.<<<<

This reminds me of something my brother and I used to say to each other,

starting when we were about 9 (me) and 7.5 (him): " What mom doesn't know, won't

hurt us! "

Oh, SO True!

[Guest guest]

I'll echo that " Damn!! " Good Lord, woman. Your mother is virtually demonic.

She has actively tried to anihilate you. The behaviors you describe that she's

done to you, the things she's said to you are reprehensible. I am beside myself

with astonishment at such deliberate maliciousness. I'm glad you found a

career that she was unable to taint with her toxic, hateful poison.

Just... wow.

-Annie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

> > finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector

> > for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

> > subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> >

> > What do you all think?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lol! When my younger Sister and I finally started to really get to know each

other as adults and became friends and allies, that became something like a

standard greeting for us: " Hey! Hi, howya doing? Hey, don't tell mom, but... "

etc.

-Annie

>

> >>>>And for pete's sake DON'T tell Nada about it.<<<<

>

> This reminds me of something my brother and I used to say to each other,

starting when we were about 9 (me) and 7.5 (him): " What mom doesn't know, won't

hurt us! "

>

> Oh, SO True!

>

[Guest guest]

Oh heck yes! I joined the Navy as soon as I graduated from high school

and ran like hell! They taught me my profession, but the main thing is

they did it far, far away from Nada!

Doug

>

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just

recently finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of

protector for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an

influence, even subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Annie,

Makes a lot of sense! Although I feel I'm prevented from even seeing Dad cause

Mom won't let him come over when I'm not on ok terms with Mom. I don't go over

anymore since Mom stole my child's car seat (yes, she is as sick as that, and

pretends that it got stolen, but who would steal a car seat?), I drew the line,

once she started to interfere with my children's things, that was it, I was not

going to go over to parents' house anymore.

So since then I haven't seen Dad much, and his coming over to my house is

sometimes a secret. I'm sick of the situation. Should I tell Dad that I don't

want to see him either until he changes relationship with Mom, will that get him

to change maybe?

N

> Hi ,

> My answer RE your question: " Any ideas from anyone on how to get

> Dad to come around and start to put his foot down? Any way we can get him to

stop reinforcing her behavior? I believe that he is the key to crack this

problem. IF only he would stop reinforcing her behavior , I think she will have

to face the consequences of her own actions, and finally she will come around

and start getting some help from professionals (she stopped seeing the

psychiatrist). "

>

> ...is, unfortunately, no, there aren't any effective ways to urge or persuade

another person to change themselves.

>

> Your dad is apparently comfortable and familiar with his relationship dynamic

with his wife. Its a dysfunctional dance they're doing together, as a couple.

Its working for them.

>

> If the dysfunction reaches the point where the relationship is no longer

working for him and the pain outweighs the pleasure, then he might do something.

He might set up some boundaries. But as long as the relationship is working

enough to suit him (he may have very minimal needs) he has no incentive to

change anything and a lot to risk by making changes.

>

> You can't be his rescuer because he is an adult; he has to want to rescue

himself.

>

> All you can do is make some boundaries of your own. For example, you could

decide that you're no longer available to listen to your dad complain about your

mom, because his refusal to take any positive steps to protect himself upsets

you.

>

> YOU can make that boundary, for yourself. " Dad, I can't listen to this any

longer. I know you're unhappy with mother but I love both of you. Its not fair

to put me in the middle, it upsets me and there's nothing I can do to help,

anyway. I'm not a marriage counselor, and I'm not a psychologist. I hope you

will both go into therapy individually and as a couple and work this out; I want

you both to be happy. So, can we talk about something else? " etc.

>

> Just my two cents' worth, to take or leave.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> > >

> > > What do you all think?

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Amy,

I'm so sorry you feel your career was ruined because of her. As long as you

realize that, don't look back, make a new start and move on. Your family are

the gift you have , your children, your husband, they are all there with you -

at least you don't live with her anymore, and she has no influence. You are

strong and you will overcome, don't look back, looking back will get you sucked

into something you cannot change.

N

> Yes... my mom prevented me from pursuing any career.

> All I wanted to do was study...she would never let me.

> She would stand in my doorway and scream at me while I was trying to

concentrate....for years all through my college life. She did not let me go away

to college...wanted to keep me close.

>

> She hated my figure skating career which I trained 6 days a week for 7

years...always trying to get me to quit. Now, I find that my contemporaries who

have stayed with it throughout the years have been successful in the sport as

judges, coaches...at the olympic level.

>

> I could scream.

>

> I gave up everything to make her happy...and it only happened when i got

married to someone acceptable to her and had kids. Then, I was a good girl.

>

> So now, I have no career.

> I am super talented...no career. I am 48 and have my self-taught computer

graphics to fall back on, but it's not what I wanted for myself.

> I could kick myself around the world for letting her interfere in my every

decision.

> How could I have been so innocent...so naive...to let her derail me for so

long.

> I want a do-over so bad.

> Amy

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are so right! She can't ruin what she doesn't know! I stopped telling her

anything as well. My siblings started way sooner, I should have done that too,

but I only realized last year after the psychiatrist diagnosed her.

I think financially once we are independent is when our BPD Moms can't

interfere, which was a big thing for me, I always wanted to be independent

financially, and once I was it was great, though she still lured me in to her

web, as I lived at home. She turned me against Dad, she turned me against

anyone she didn't like and used me as her front line in battle. Thank God that

is all over and I have my own family and can keep her at bay!

N

> oh boy, can i relate. i never got any sleep during high school because my

> mother was either keeping me up all night talking at the end of my bed, or

> waking me up to start talking to me in the middle of the night. that

> coupled with her refusal to let me have a social life that didn't include

> her made for a hellish high school experience. i can't imagine how i

> concentrated enough to pass any of my subjects. i'm smart, but i felt

> exhausted and emotionally drained all the time. i think i could have done

> much better if i had time alone to study, and a lot less drama from nada.

>

> i tried to go away to a small private college but she interrupted that in my

> second semester. she harassed me by calling my room at all hours (didn't do

> much for my relationship with my assigned dorm mate). when i took the phone

> off the hook she learned to call each of the rooms around mine until she

> could get another student to come knock on my door...sometimes at 3am. She

> would say she was having a heart attack and desperately needed to talk to

> me. Guess what...if you're having a heart attack you need an ambulance, not

> your daughter who lives three hours away! needless to say i couldn't

> concentrate, had strained relationships with my peers, and struggled a lot.

> it ended in my second semester with her showing up at my dorm unannounced.

> i came home to find all my housemates literally fanning her, getting her

> aspirin, and a providing her with cool washcloths because she was having

> some sort of episode. when i walked in all i could do was cry, and then

> pack.

>

> i eventually graduated from a school close to home. having a mother with

> BPD interfered with who i might have become. i've made adjustments and

> sacrifices to accomodate her craziness. i've done the best i could, and am

> proud that i didn't give up.

>

> i ended up becoming a social worker and have been in a position to help

> children who were struggling as i did in my own childhood. sometimes i

> wonder what i would have done if i had been supported, intellectually

> stimulated, and allowed to follow my own interests.

>

> sadly it seems this is a common story for many of us. i believe we CAN have

> a do-over. Figure out what you're interested in and study it now. And for

> pete's sake DON'T tell Nada about it. She can't ruin what she doesn't know

> about!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> **

>>

>>

>> Yes... my mom prevented me from pursuing any career.

>> All I wanted to do was study...she would never let me.

>> She would stand in my doorway and scream at me while I was trying to

>> concentrate....for years all through my college life. She did not let me go

>> away to college...wanted to keep me close.

>>

>> She hated my figure skating career which I trained 6 days a week for 7

>> years...always trying to get me to quit. Now, I find that my contemporaries

>> who have stayed with it throughout the years have been successful in the

>> sport as judges, coaches...at the olympic level.

>>

>> I could scream.

>>

>> I gave up everything to make her happy...and it only happened when i got

>> married to someone acceptable to her and had kids. Then, I was a good girl.

>>

>> So now, I have no career.

>> I am super talented...no career. I am 48 and have my self-taught computer

>> graphics to fall back on, but it's not what I wanted for myself.

>> I could kick myself around the world for letting her interfere in my every

>> decision.

>> How could I have been so innocent...so naive...to let her derail me for so

>> long.

>> I want a do-over so bad.

>> Amy

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

N,

What you said about your career totally makes sense to me. From the way you

describe it, it sounds wonderful, like finally being free of all the uncertainty

that comes with BPD moms.

I agree with some of the other posters about the situation with your Dad.

Unfortunately, he has to make the decision himself to change the way he reacts

to her manipulation. You could try talking to him about it but it's unlikely to

have the effect you want. Pretty much the only thing is to set limits that keep

*you* from being dragged into all the drama. Easier said than done, I know.

(hugs)

> Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

>

> What do you all think?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me personally, I don't recommend " the ultimatum " . Its just not a good strategy;

ultimatums can backfire and the situation can end up worse than before.

My impression, which is just my opinion to take or leave, is that you're very

fond of your dad, but you and your mom are kind of vying and competing with each

other for his attention and affection and that isn't healthy. Its not good for

any of you: your dad, or you or your mom. Its a kind of unhealthy drama

triangle with your dad in the middle.

It can't be healthy to insert yourself within their spousal dynamic, and have

clandestine meetings with your dad, without your mother. Its one thing if you

have separate relationships with each of them as individuals if the other is

aware of it and thinks its great, but its entirely different and unhealthy to

have secret visits.

My opinion (which may or may not resonate with you) is to take several steps

back from your parents' relationship and let them work things out between

themselves. You're really, really wanting to rescue your dad, but you can't.

He has to want a change and he has to make it happen; it won't be real if you

pressure him to change, plus, inserting yourself into their issue could end up

making it impossible for him to have any relationship with you at all. Don't

force him into the position of having to choose between you and your mother; its

more likely that he will choose his wife/your mother because he is very enmeshed

and invested in his wife and depends on her more than you; and if he chooses

you, you can't be a wife to him. That would be even more unhealthy.

So, anyway. That's just my take on it. I hope things work out the way you want

them to, in the healthiest way possible for all of you.

-Annie

> > >

> > > > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector for my

four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> > > >

> > > > What do you all think?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Wow. I'm feeling extremely humbled by some of the stories in this thread. I

mean, life at my house was never easy, but my Nada didn't really have much

physical control over where I went to school and what major I picked. I don't

think she would have had the nerve to show up at my school unannounced and

expect me to just get up and leave or call me repeatedly at 3 a.m.! (I can just

imagine the Herculean-sized FIT I'd have thrown if she'd tried.) That's

just...ridiculous doesn't even begin to cover it. You guys are truly amazing for

being able to get through being smothered by nadas to that extent.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie for your input, you really are insightful. I'm curious as to what

profession you're in?

Just to give you some more background: Dad is the one BIG on secrets. I hate

secrets. He would call and tell me something and then say: " But don't tell

Mom. " He has been saying this to us 4 children for as long as I can remember.

A few days ago, his grandson came to visit our country (our half sister lives

abroad) and he called me and told me to invite him over to my house but to keep

it a " secret " . He would tell us things, and then ask to keep it a secret from

Mom. He would come over, then say: " Don't tell Mom. " I think that's unhealthy

for us. He used to make us feel better as children by saying: " Don't worry, I

won't let Mom get her way in such and such thing for example, you can count on

me. " Usually he would stick to his word, but never in front of her, he would do

things behind the scenes, secrets, lies. He lies to her all the time. Which is

why I'm so big on the truth. He is nonconfrontational. Anyway, so with that

background in mind, what would you do if you were his daughter, and mother

dearest was using Dad as a weapon against us? From our perspective, she holds

him hostage. She even told my brother once, as my Dad is so old, that if he

doesn't do as she pleases, she will let Dad " shit in his pants " when he becomes

too old to go to the bathroom alone. He's 79 and she's 20 years younger. Yes,

she is as sick as that. My brother obliges out of love for Dad. She always uses

Dad as a middleman to come to us and get us to speak to her again. I'm tired of

it. What should I do? I'm afraid that I will lose Dad completely, he will be so

under her spell, which is why I'm fighting to get him to see our point of view.

I gave him the Anne Lawson book to read, he says he's read it, however

I don't think he has, as he still doesn't quite get our perspective. I feel

myself constantly having to fight to show my true feelings. It's like a

courthouse: Mom goes crying to Dad, Dad calls us up complaining and asking us to

make amends, we try to explain our situation, and in the end we cave, or we

don't cave, and the cycle goes on and on. What would be your advice under these

circumstances?

N

> Me personally, I don't recommend " the ultimatum " . Its just not a good

strategy; ultimatums can backfire and the situation can end up worse than

before.

>

> My impression, which is just my opinion to take or leave, is that you're very

fond of your dad, but you and your mom are kind of vying and competing with each

other for his attention and affection and that isn't healthy. Its not good for

any of you: your dad, or you or your mom. Its a kind of unhealthy drama triangle

with your dad in the middle.

>

> It can't be healthy to insert yourself within their spousal dynamic, and have

clandestine meetings with your dad, without your mother. Its one thing if you

have separate relationships with each of them as individuals if the other is

aware of it and thinks its great, but its entirely different and unhealthy to

have secret visits.

>

> My opinion (which may or may not resonate with you) is to take several steps

back from your parents' relationship and let them work things out between

themselves. You're really, really wanting to rescue your dad, but you can't. He

has to want a change and he has to make it happen; it won't be real if you

pressure him to change, plus, inserting yourself into their issue could end up

making it impossible for him to have any relationship with you at all. Don't

force him into the position of having to choose between you and your mother; its

more likely that he will choose his wife/your mother because he is very enmeshed

and invested in his wife and depends on her more than you; and if he chooses

you, you can't be a wife to him. That would be even more unhealthy.

>

> So, anyway. That's just my take on it. I hope things work out the way you want

them to, in the healthiest way possible for all of you.

>

> -Annie

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I could feel good about surviving my mother's insane twisted tactics to

get me to be her savior. I know I have endured so much, but I wish I were more

proud of myself. I was an accomplished skater, musician, artist and writer,

despite her war against me at all times. She exhausted me with her whining,

complaining and threatening. She blackmailed me with threats of losing my entire

family if I didn't make the " right " decisions.

But now, so many years later, I feel exhausted with no spirited juice in me. I

am a very conscientious mom, am open to everything they want to say or do...so

different from how I was raised and am proud that I could turn that around...but

I feel weakened at this point. Everything reminds me of how battered I truly

feel.

Just last week, my kids were talking to my dad about the same sex marriage

decision. My dad said that he was for it, saying that he believes that everyone

has the right to happiness... I almost busted a gut hearing him say that at this

time. Where was that attitude when I was trying to pursue my happiness? When my

mom was terrorizing me...why weren't my rights defended and upheld? Why was I

overlooked in the happiness department? I never slept...I was always trying to

figure out how to live my life with my passions...while figuring how to keep her

from tearing me away ffrom my family.

So now, so many years later, my original family has

disintegrated...inevitably...and the threat of losing all of them came true...it

was all for nothing.

I have a very hard time knowing that people in my family all gave up on each

other. They all slink back in insecurity and stay away from each other. Holidays

are sad and weird. Yes, we always have friends over, but it's just not the same.

I know I'm having a mini pity-party right now, but it's summer, and I should

feel happier...but I feel weighed down by being born into the wrong family.

I need to turn things around...even though I've done it so many times already.

As for career, I have a few creative opportunities on my horizon, but the

twisting feeling I get every time I meet a successful, smart, organized woman

with her own brain and values...I wonder why I couldn't break free of my mom and

put myself first. I was really in prison...and I still feel like a bird in a

cage, with the door wide open...still unable to fully fly.

Amy

[Guest guest]

Oh jeez, you and I have the same nada. Anytime I demonstrated independent

thought, she lapsed into hushed conversations with teachers, parents, etc.

trying to figure out who brainwashed me, undermining any credibility I may have

had with the other person in the process.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on this. I've just recently

> > finished nursing school and thought maybe having been a sort of protector

> > for my four younger siblings from nada growing up had an influence, even

> > subconsciously, on the decision to go into that field.

> >

> > What do you all think?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I personally would do, if I had good reason to believe that an elderly

person was helpless and actually being physically neglected or abused or being

financially exploited, I'd report it to the authorities. The elderly can become

as helpless and dependent as little children and as easily abused.

Otherwise, in my opinion, your dad's emotional dependence on and enmeshment with

his wife/your mother isn't fixable. Its a long-term, embedded, fixed dynamic

that works for him. It must work for both of them, otherwise they'd have

separated or divorced each other long ago.

Your dad's method of coping with his dysfunctional marital relationship, by

creating a " secret alliance " with you and his other children, isn't healthy *at

all* in my opinion. It would qualify as " emotional incest " , I think.

How your parents relate to each other isn't something you have the power to

change, unfortunately. All you have the power to do is change the way you

relate to them, by establishing healthy boundaries and rules for yourself.

My background? I'm just a KO, but I'm in my late 50's and I read a lot. Over

the last 10 years or so I've been reading a LOT about psychology and

psychological disorders, trying to understand why my nada is the way she is. I

am NOT a psychologist, and any opinions I offer here are just that: my personal

opinions. But, I hope my personal opinions can help.

-Annie

>

> > Me personally, I don't recommend " the ultimatum " . Its just not a good

strategy; ultimatums can backfire and the situation can end up worse than

before.

> >

> > My impression, which is just my opinion to take or leave, is that you're

very fond of your dad, but you and your mom are kind of vying and competing with

each other for his attention and affection and that isn't healthy. Its not good

for any of you: your dad, or you or your mom. Its a kind of unhealthy drama

triangle with your dad in the middle.

> >

> > It can't be healthy to insert yourself within their spousal dynamic, and

have clandestine meetings with your dad, without your mother. Its one thing if

you have separate relationships with each of them as individuals if the other is

aware of it and thinks its great, but its entirely different and unhealthy to

have secret visits.

> >

> > My opinion (which may or may not resonate with you) is to take several steps

back from your parents' relationship and let them work things out between

themselves. You're really, really wanting to rescue your dad, but you can't. He

has to want a change and he has to make it happen; it won't be real if you

pressure him to change, plus, inserting yourself into their issue could end up

making it impossible for him to have any relationship with you at all. Don't

force him into the position of having to choose between you and your mother; its

more likely that he will choose his wife/your mother because he is very enmeshed

and invested in his wife and depends on her more than you; and if he chooses

you, you can't be a wife to him. That would be even more unhealthy.

> >

> > So, anyway. That's just my take on it. I hope things work out the way you

want them to, in the healthiest way possible for all of you.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I too have the same Mom. She discouraged independence greatly and hoped we

would all live at home with her FOREVER.

> Oh jeez, you and I have the same nada. Anytime I demonstrated independent

thought, she lapsed into hushed conversations with teachers, parents, etc.

trying to figure out who brainwashed me, undermining any credibility I may have

had with the other person in the process.

>

>