IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone

I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

Transfer only.

I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

this working for services that have started this.

Terrell

[Guest guest]

So what is the EMT or EMT-I going to do if the pt receiving Vancomycin and

develops Red Man's Syndrome?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:49:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

paramedic352a@... writes:

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

some of those calls.

As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

cannot take.

For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

faster). Other states are doing it.

I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

discussion. Take care and be safe.

--

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> Transfer only.

>

> I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> this working for services that have started this.

>

> Terrell

>

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Guest guest]

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

some of those calls.

As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

cannot take.

For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

faster). Other states are doing it.

I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

discussion. Take care and be safe.

--

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> Transfer only.

>

> I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> this working for services that have started this.

>

> Terrell

>

[Guest guest]

Texas certifies to the I-85 but many programs teach more and more of an I-99

type class depending on again the program and the Medical Director of same.

LNM

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

some of those calls.

As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

cannot take.

For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

faster). Other states are doing it.

I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

discussion. Take care and be safe.

--

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> Transfer only.

>

> I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> this working for services that have started this.

>

> Terrell

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I would like to make a correction on something you said in your post. Texas

does not teach the I85 curriculum - or at least instructors are not SUPPOSED to

be teaching that curriculum. Texas teaches a 5 module subset of the 1999

Paramedic NSC for Intermediate. Candidated for NR from Texas TEST using that

test because there is no test available from NR that matches what Texas approved

as Intermediate.

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l@...: paramedic352a@...: Tue, 3 Jun 2008

18:48:54 +0000Subject: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear theline if it

gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patientsare going on

antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and allyou do is just talk to

them in the back and by sending anintermediate, you can save the paramedic for

the more severe patients.Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services

can keep thefacilities happy by transferring out those patients.Of course it

also depends on what the patient is going for. Forexample, you get sent to a

local community ER where you have a 14 y/of with a large abcess on her leg and

she is going downtown to a largerhospital (which is about a 25-40 minute

transport) cause they don'thave insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on

vancomycin or someother antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as

nocardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handlesome of

those calls.As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which

includesACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85

curriculum.Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker,

itwouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-Iin basic

EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALSclass to enable them

to take select " monitor " calls on patients thatare stable with no major cardiac

issues. But also keep in mind it hasto be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC

on what an EMT-I can andcannot take.For example you have a patient on a

telemetry floor in an LTACfacility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot

going to anoutpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a

telefloor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient isstable. To me

an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,thus keeping the paramedic

for the more severe calls. But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an

EMT-I a drug bagand monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else

fails,just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drivefaster).

Other states are doing it.I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics

about them losingthere jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent

potential toovercome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more

downtownfor the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, whichcan

be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but thatis why they

call it practicing medicine cause medicine is alwayschanging. Sorry if this was

so long, but I felt it is a gooddiscussion. Take care and be safe.-->> Hello

everyone> > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again >

Transfer only.> > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how

well is > this working for services that have started this.> > Terrell>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

From all the research I have found the risk of Red Mans syndrome has become

greatly reduced after early trials and adjusting the admin flow rate to 1 gm/2

hrs or longer. I know this is a risk that can have a bad outcome but so is most

everything we do.

So in the interest of fair play let me also ask this How many people have seen

this type of reaction while transferring a patient? I am not downplaying the

response I am asking legitimately for researching options of not overworking a

paramedic group that, like everyplace else is not as plentiful as is needed.

txguy001@... wrote:

So what is the EMT or EMT-I going to do if the pt receiving Vancomycin

and

develops Red Man's Syndrome?

----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:49:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

paramedic352a@... writes:

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

some of those calls.

As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

cannot take.

For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

faster). Other states are doing it.

I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

discussion. Take care and be safe.

--

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> Transfer only.

>

> I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> this working for services that have started this.

>

> Terrell

>

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Guest guest]

How many of understand the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of antibiotics well

enough to be involved in their administration??? I had a damned good paramedic

instructor, good preceptors in both the hospital and field setting, and have

supplemented my education through lots of reading.? None of these resources have

given me any level of comfort with antibiotics.?? And I seem to remember that

the first rule of medication administration, as a professional, is not to

administer a drug you don't completely understand.

So, for now, I'm a bit hesitant to have intermediates or paramedics messing with

antibiotics, even if it's " just " monitoring a patient who's already on?a drip.?

That's why some EMS services require a nurse on critical care transfers.

I'm not opposed to this being an eventual goal for EMS.? Just, for now, we don't

have the formal education in pharmacology and pharmacodynamics that nurses, PAs,

and physicians have.?? Until we've got the education to back it, we need to

tread cautiously.

Just the paranoid $0.02 from this attorney and paramedic.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

-Austin, Texas

Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

From all the research I have found the risk of Red Mans syndrome has become

greatly reduced after early trials and adjusting the admin flow rate to 1 gm/2

hrs or longer. I know this is a risk that can have a bad outcome but so is most

everything we do.

So in the interest of fair play let me also ask this How many people have seen

this type of reaction while transferring a patient? I am not downplaying the

response I am asking legitimately for researching options of not overworking a

paramedic group that, like everyplace else is not as plentiful as is needed.

txguy001@... wrote:

So what is the EMT or EMT-I going to do if the pt receiving Vancomycin and

develops Red Man's Syndrome?

----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:49:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

paramedic352a@... writes:

I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

some of those calls.

As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

cannot take.

For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

faster). Other states are doing it.

I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

discussion. Take care and be safe.

--

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> Transfer only.

>

> I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> this working for services that have started this.

>

> Terrell

>

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Guest guest]

Those are some good points, however you are not administereing the

medication you are just monitoring it. Also, by the time you get the

patient on your stretcher cause sometimes it takes hours to get the

transfer approved, that antibiotic has already started or it may be

finished and they have probably had other meds as well and if they

were to have a negative reaction to it, they would've had it by the

time you arrived at their bedside. Also they should only be taking

stable patients.

Also, to my knowledge, antibiotics are safe as long they are on a pump

and for the short time (depending on the area you work in) you have

the patient, most likely it will be uneventful and if not, bag them

and give high flow diesel.

However, that is why if a program like this is implemented, it must be

VERY SPECIFIC on what they can and can't take and also give the

Intermediates the training and tools to do the job and do no harm for

the patient. Also keep in mind, if there is a chance that the patient

could go " sour " the facility would request a paramedic anyway.

To answer your question about Redmans syndrome, I have never had

complications with transporting a patient on antibiotics. My only

experience with Redmans syndrome was my long time soccer coach while I

was growing up ALWAYS chewed Redman tobacco constantly on the

sidelines so I guess by definition, he has Redmans syndrome. Ha! Ha!

I'm not sure if they even make that anymore. Oh well, it doesn't

matter cause I don't chew tobacco anyway. Be safe.

-brian-

> >

> > Hello everyone

> >

> > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> > transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> > Transfer only.

> >

> > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> > this working for services that have started this.

> >

> > Terrell

> >

>

> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking

with

> Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Paramedics should understand the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of the

drugs they give? What a novel idea! The very thought! Next I guess you'll

be saying we ought to be able to interpret 12-lead EKGs. Sheesh!

GG

>

>

> How many of understand the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of antibiotics

> well enough to be involved in their administration? How many of understand

> the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of antibiotics well enough to be

involved

> in their administration?<wbr>?? I had a damned good paramedic instructor,

> good preceptors in both the hospital and field setting, and How many of

> understand the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of antibiotics well enough to

be

> involved in their administration?<wbr>?? I had a damned good

>

> So, for now, I'm a bit hesitant to have intermediates or paramedics messing

> with antibiotics, even if it's " just " monitoring a patient who's already on?a

> drip.? That's why some EMS services require a nurse on critical care

> transfers.

>

> I'm not opposed to this being an eventual goal for EMS.? Just, for now, we

> don't have the formal education in pharmacology and pharmacodynamics that

> nurses, PAs, and physicians have.?? Until we've got the education to back it,

we

> need to tread cautiously.

>

> Just the paranoid $0.02 from this attorney and paramedic.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

> -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

> -Austin, Texas

>

> Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

>

> From all the research I have found the risk of Red Mans syndrome has become

> greatly reduced after early trials and adjusting the admin flow rate to 1

> gm/2 hrs or longer. I know this is a risk that can have a bad outcome but so

is

> most everything we do.

>

> So in the interest of fair play let me also ask this How many people have

> seen this type of reaction while transferring a patient? I am not downplaying

> the response I am asking legitimately for researching options of not

> overworking a paramedic group that, like everyplace else is not as plentiful

as is

> needed.

>

> txguy001@... wrote:

> So what is the EMT or EMT-I going to do if the pt receiving Vancomycin and

> develops Red Man's Syndrome?

>

> ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:49:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> paramedic352a@paramedic writes:

>

> I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

> line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

> are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

> you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

> intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

> Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

> facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

>

> Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

> example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

> f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

> hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

> have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

> other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

> cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

> some of those calls.

>

> As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

> ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

>

> Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

> wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

> in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

> class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

> are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

> to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

> cannot take.

>

> For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

> facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

> outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

> floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

> stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

> thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

>

> But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

> and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

> just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

> faster). Other states are doing it.

>

> I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

> there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

> overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

> for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

> can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

> is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

> changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

> discussion. Take care and be safe.

>

> --

>

>

> >

> > Hello everyone

> >

> > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> > transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> > Transfer only.

> >

> > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> > this working for services that have started this.

> >

> > Terrell

> >

>

> ************ ************<wbr>**Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Wa

> Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

> (http://food.http://food.<whttp://fohttp://f & <wbr>NCID=aolfod<wbr>NCID)

>

>

[Guest guest]

At what point in the EMT-I course is anybody taught the use of IV pumps?

GG

>

> Those are some good points, however you are not administereing the

> medication you are just monitoring it. Also, by the time you get the

> patient on your stretcher cause sometimes it takes hours to get the

> transfer approved, that antibiotic has already started or it may be

> finished and they have probably had other meds as well and if they

> were to have a negative reaction to it, they would've had it by the

> time you arrived at their bedside. Also they should only be taking

> stable patients.

>

> Also, to my knowledge, antibiotics are safe as long they are on a pump

> and for the short time (depending on the area you work in) you have

> the patient, most likely it will be uneventful and if not, bag them

> and give high flow diesel.

>

> However, that is why if a program like this is implemented, it must be

> VERY SPECIFIC on what they can and can't take and also give the

> Intermediates the training and tools to do the job and do no harm for

> the patient. Also keep in mind, if there is a chance that the patient

> could go " sour " the facility would request a paramedic anyway.

>

> To answer your question about Redmans syndrome, I have never had

> complications with transporting a patient on antibiotics. My only

> experience with Redmans syndrome was my long time soccer coach while I

> was growing up ALWAYS chewed Redman tobacco constantly on the

> sidelines so I guess by definition, he has Redmans syndrome. Ha! Ha!

> I'm not sure if they even make that anymore. Oh well, it doesn't

> matter cause I don't chew tobacco anyway. Be safe.

>

> -brian-

>

>

> > >

> > > Hello everyone

> > >

> > > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> > > transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> > > Transfer only.

> > >

> > > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> > > this working for services that have started this.

> > >

> > > Terrell

> > >

> >

> > ************ ************<wbr>**Get trade secrets for amazing burge

> with

> > Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

> > (http://food.http://food.<whttp://fohttp://f & <wbr>NCID=aolfod<wbr>NCID)

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You made my point. It takes OJT to learn pumps and vents. Now, should we

be including those things in the initial curriculum since dealing with them is

becoming more and more a job requirement?

GG

>

> There's something to be said for on the job training... Currently I reside

> in the Commonwealth of Virginia which recognizes the I-99... The service I

> work for treats paramedics and intermediates the same essentially, with an

> additional level of medic designated critical care, which covers vents, and

> the higher power pressors and such... Anyhow, the maintenance of IV abx

> falls within our protocol here, as long as we are not initiating the drip...

> Our service carries 1 3-channel and a 1-channel IV pump on each unit, and we

> routinely transfer patients with multiple drips... I don't think that there

> is too much of an issue here as long as your service has protocols

> configured appropriately. configured appropriately.<wbr>.. Do I think p

> medications they may be administering? Yes... When I got hired with my

> service, not only did I have to learn the equipment, but we did do a little

> coverage on antibiotics, and the mechanisms of action, as well as risks...

> Arguably- Gene - your statement could be applied to many pieces of

> equipment... How many courses teach vent use? However, vents are routinely

> used in the field in some areas...

>

> Bottom line I think: If your protocols cover appropriately, and you are

> provided training, what's the problem?

>

> Joe Percer, LP (hoping to come back to TX at some point)

>

>

>

> > At what point in the EMT-I course is anybody taught the use of IV pumps?

> >

> > GG

> >

> > In a message dated 6/3/08 4:12:59 PM, paramedic352a@paramedic<

> paramedic352a%paramedic35><wbr>wr

> >

> > >

> > > Those are some good points, however you are not administereing the

> > > medication you are just monitoring it. Also, by the time you get the

> > > patient on your stretcher cause sometimes it takes hours to get the

> > > transfer approved, that antibiotic has already started or it may be

> > > finished and they have probably had other meds as well and if they

> > > were to have a negative reaction to it, they would've had it by the

> > > time you arrived at their bedside. Also they should only be taking

> > > stable patients.

> > >

> > > Also, to my knowledge, antibiotics are safe as long they are on a pump

> > > and for the short time (depending on the area you work in) you have

> > > the patient, most likely it will be uneventful and if not, bag them

> > > and give high flow diesel.

> > >

> > > However, that is why if a program like this is implemented, it must be

> > > VERY SPECIFIC on what they can and can't take and also give the

> > > Intermediates the training and tools to do the job and do no harm for

> > > the patient. Also keep in mind, if there is a chance that the patient

> > > could go " sour " the facility would request a paramedic anyway.

> > >

> > > To answer your question about Redmans syndrome, I have never had

> > > complications with transporting a patient on antibiotics. My only

> > > experience with Redmans syndrome was my long time soccer coach while I

> > > was growing up ALWAYS chewed Redman tobacco constantly on the

> > > sidelines so I guess by definition, he has Redmans syndrome. Ha! Ha!

> > > I'm not sure if they even make that anymore. Oh well, it doesn't

> > > matter cause I don't chew tobacco anyway. Be safe.

> > >

> > > -brian-

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > How many of understand the pharmacology and pharmacodynamics of

> > > antibiotics well enough to be involved in their administration? ant

> > > had a damned good paramedic instructor, good preceptors in both the

> > > hospital and field setting, and have supplemented my education through

> > > lots of reading.? None of these resources have given me any level of

> > > comfort with antibiotics. comfort with antibiotics.<wbr>?? And I seem

> > > of medication administration, as a professional, is not to administer

> > > a drug you don't completely understand.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So, for now, I'm a bit hesitant to have intermediates or paramedics

> > > messing with antibiotics, even if it's " just " monitoring a patient

> > > who's already on?a drip.? That's why some EMS services require a nurse

> > > on critical care transfers.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not opposed to this being an eventual goal for EMS.? Just, for

> > > now, we don't have the formal education in pharmacology and

> > > pharmacodynamics that nurses, PAs, and physicians have.?? Until we've

> > > got the education to back it, we need to tread cautiously.

> > > >

> > > > Just the paranoid $0.02 from this attorney and paramedic.

> > > >

> > > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

> > > > -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

> > > > -Austin, Texas

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From all the research I have found the risk of Red Mans syndrome has

> > > become greatly reduced after early trials and adjusting the admin flow

> > > rate to 1 gm/2 hrs or longer. I know this is a risk that can have a

> > > bad outcome but so is most everything we do.

> > > >

> > > > So in the interest of fair play let me also ask this How many people

> > > have seen this type of reaction while transferring a patient? I am not

> > > downplaying the response I am asking legitimately for researching

> > > options of not overworking a paramedic group that, like everyplace

> > > else is not as plentiful as is needed.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

**************

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & amp;

NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Guest guest]

There's something to be said for on the job training... Currently I reside

in the Commonwealth of Virginia which recognizes the I-99... The service I

work for treats paramedics and intermediates the same essentially, with an

additional level of medic designated critical care, which covers vents, and

the higher power pressors and such... Anyhow, the maintenance of IV abx

falls within our protocol here, as long as we are not initiating the drip...

Our service carries 1 3-channel and a 1-channel IV pump on each unit, and we

routinely transfer patients with multiple drips... I don't think that there

is too much of an issue here as long as your service has protocols

configured appropriately... Do I think people should be researching the

medications they may be administering? Yes... When I got hired with my

service, not only did I have to learn the equipment, but we did do a little

coverage on antibiotics, and the mechanisms of action, as well as risks...

Arguably- Gene - your statement could be applied to many pieces of

equipment... How many courses teach vent use? However, vents are routinely

used in the field in some areas...

Bottom line I think: If your protocols cover appropriately, and you are

provided training, what's the problem?

Joe Percer, LP (hoping to come back to TX at some point)

> At what point in the EMT-I course is anybody taught the use of IV pumps?

>

> GG

>

> In a message dated 6/3/08 4:12:59 PM,

paramedic352a@...<paramedic352a%40yahoo.com>writes:

>

> >

> > Those are some good points, however you are not administereing the

> > medication you are just monitoring it. Also, by the time you get the

> > patient on your stretcher cause sometimes it takes hours to get the

> > transfer approved, that antibiotic has already started or it may be

> > finished and they have probably had other meds as well and if they

> > were to have a negative reaction to it, they would've had it by the

> > time you arrived at their bedside. Also they should only be taking

> > stable patients.

> >

> > Also, to my knowledge, antibiotics are safe as long they are on a pump

> > and for the short time (depending on the area you work in) you have

> > the patient, most likely it will be uneventful and if not, bag them

> > and give high flow diesel.

> >

> > However, that is why if a program like this is implemented, it must be

> > VERY SPECIFIC on what they can and can't take and also give the

> > Intermediates the training and tools to do the job and do no harm for

> > the patient. Also keep in mind, if there is a chance that the patient

> > could go " sour " the facility would request a paramedic anyway.

> >

> > To answer your question about Redmans syndrome, I have never had

> > complications with transporting a patient on antibiotics. My only

> > experience with Redmans syndrome was my long time soccer coach while I

> > was growing up ALWAYS chewed Redman tobacco constantly on the

> > sidelines so I guess by definition, he has Redmans syndrome. Ha! Ha!

> > I'm not sure if they even make that anymore. Oh well, it doesn't

> > matter cause I don't chew tobacco anyway. Be safe.

> >

> > -brian-

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Hello everyone

> > > >

> > > > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> > > > transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> > > > Transfer only.

> > > >

> > > > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> > > > this working for services that have started this.

> > > >

> > > > Terrell

> > > >

> > >

> > > ************ ************<wbr>**Get trade secrets for amazing burge

> > with

> > > Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

> > > (http://food.http://food.<whttp://fohttp://f &

> <wbr>NCID=aolfod<wbr>NCID)

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

" Red man syndrome " is caused by histamine release. Some other antibiotics can

also cause it, e.g. erythromycin. Give em 25 or 50 of Benedryl IM or IV

and it will go away.

GG

>

> One thing I really like about this group is that no matter what the subjuct

> is we all have our own feelings and are not afraid to say them when we need

> to or are at least compeled to LOL

>

> OK so that being said I will throw mine in.

>

> 1. I think that the OJT for any service is important no matter what the

> situation as has been stated there are multiple types of IV med pumps and few

if

> any hospitals are the same even within the same system. Hence the reason why

> orientation is imperatiive. AND anyone who m ight concider such a change

> without properly training there people is asking for trouble.

>

> 2. At risk of being nostalgic I dont remember Jay Cloud talking much about

> IV pumps in my paramedic clas back in 1980 something either. NOW we do discuss

> them in the teaching group I work with now but again they are all different

> so .....

>

> 3. Wes I am in total agreement that having a nursing reference guide is a

> valuable tool and strongly incourage all my students too do that as well. It

is

> rediculus the different drugs we are asked to deal with especially in a

> transfer setting and there is no way that we can possible be expected to know

> them all. I mean doctors, nurses and even pharmasists use reference guides of

> some kind routinely who are we to think we are or should be different.

>

> 4. The reference to the " Red Man tobacco'' was priceless LOLOL ..... But it

> is a viable concern and I can again say I have never seen it ( now watch me

> see it happen tomorrow) but I can say that I have never actually been properly

> instructed in what to do if I do see it either . I mean I know but only

> because I did not transfer it until I had looked it up for the just in case

> senario.

>

> Most of us have been doing this for alot of years nad seen some tremendous

> changes(some good and some well lets just say are questionable ) but one thing

> we can all say is nothing has changed without some controversy. Thats why we

> are all medics, cause we can even argue with ourselves lol.

>

> " , Rick " wrote:

> 's Drug Guide for Nurses-published by F.A. Company

> ISBN-13:978- ISBN-13:978 ISBN-13:978-<wbr>0-8036-1 IS

> They also publish Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary which I highly

> recommend.

> Rick

>

> ____________ ________ ________ _

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie

> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:07 AM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

>

> I'm unfamiliar with the 's guide.?? Would you give me some more

> information about the book??? I'm always up for having another book(s).

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

>

> From all the research I have found the risk of Red Mans syndrome has

> become greatly reduced after early trials and adjusting the admin flow

> rate to 1 gm/2 hrs or longer. I know this is a risk that can have a bad

> outcome but so is most everything we do.

>

> So in the interest of fair play let me also ask this How many people

> have seen this type of reaction while transferring a patient? I am not

> downplaying the response I am asking legitimately for researching

> options of not overworking a paramedic group that, like everyplace else

> is not as plentiful as is needed.

>

> txguy001@... <mailto:txguy001%mailto:tx>

> <mailto:txguy001%mailto:tx> wrote:

> So what is the EMT or EMT-I going to do if the pt receiving Vancomycin

> and

> develops Red Man's Syndrome?

>

> ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- -

> ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- -------- -

> In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:49:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> paramedic352a@paramedic <mailto:paramedic35mailto:paramai>

> <mailto:paramedic35mailto:paramai> writes:

>

> I think it is a good thing as long as you train them how to clear the

> line if it gets air, etc. which isn't difficult. Cause when patients

> are going on antibiotics, they are for the most part stable and all

> you do is just talk to them in the back and by sending an

> intermediate, you can save the paramedic for the more severe patients.

> Also with the shortage of paramedics, private services can keep the

> facilities happy by transferring out those patients.

>

> Of course it also depends on what the patient is going for. For

> example, you get sent to a local community ER where you have a 14 y/o

> f with a large abcess on her leg and she is going downtown to a larger

> hospital (which is about a 25-40 minute transport) cause they don't

> have insurance or they don't treat pedis and is on vancomycin or some

> other antibiotic. To me an EMT-I can handle that. As long as no

> cardiac or other potential issues are involved, an EMT-I can handle

> some of those calls.

>

> As a matter of fact some states do the I99 curriculum which includes

> ACLS and PALS, but to my knoweldge, Texas only does the I85 curriculum.

>

> Also with the shortage of paramedics and patients getting sicker, it

> wouldn't surprise me if some private services started training EMT-I

> in basic EKG/Pharmacology, than put them through an ACLS and/or PALS

> class to enable them to take select " monitor " calls on patients that

> are stable with no major cardiac issues. But also keep in mind it has

> to be written out where it is VERY SPECIFIC on what an EMT-I can and

> cannot take.

>

> For example you have a patient on a telemetry floor in an LTAC

> facility with a dx of cellulitis to the right foot going to an

> outpatient radiology facility, which just because they are on a tele

> floor, they have to be on a monitor even though that patient is

> stable. To me an EMT-I can handle that cause it is just a formality,

> thus keeping the paramedic for the more severe calls.

>

> But the bottom line is that it is not fair to give an EMT-I a drug bag

> and monitor and not give them the training. Plus if all else fails,

> just bag them and give them high flow diesel (which means drive

> faster). Other states are doing it.

>

> I am not here to open a can of worms with paramedics about them losing

> there jobs, I am just stating an idea that has excellent potential to

> overcome the shortage of paramedics. Plus that means more downtown

> for the paramedics cause it would cut down there call volume, which

> can be a good thing. Afterall sometimes change is difficult, but that

> is why they call it practicing medicine cause medicine is always

> changing. Sorry if this was so long, but I felt it is a good

> discussion. Take care and be safe.

>

> --

>

>

> >

> > Hello everyone

> >

> > I have heard recently about sevices granting EMT-I's the ability to

> > transfer antibiotic's piggybacked on a normal saline mainline. Again

> > Transfer only.

> >

> > I am wondering what is the over-all opinion on this and how well is

> > this working for services that have started this.

> >

> > Terrell

> >

**************

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? & amp;

NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Guest guest]

Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

Like em better than .

[Guest guest]

Those are good points you have mentioned. By the time the EMT-I crew

gets there, they have already been in the hospital for a while and

would have already had a reaction if they were going too cause they

are already on the drip, plus they have already done labs, etc before

they get transferred out.

Also if the pt was critical to begin with and needed to get out quick,

than they would request a paramedic. Keep in mind, these are stable

patients and are very case specific on what an EMT-I can and cannot

take. It also depends on the length of the transport as well. In the

community hospitals in the houston area, you can get a patient

downtown within 30 minutes to an hour most of the time. I think it's a

good system and could work if it's done correctly. Plus if all else

fails, give them high flow diesel and bag em. Be safe.

>

> Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

> in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

> this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

> not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

> syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

> reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

> spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

>

> Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

> present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

> deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

> Like em better than .

>

[Guest guest]

Since Texas has no state wide protocols, and each service is 100% medical

director driven, if the medical director decides an EMT basic can do

trephination

of the skull and is willing to take responsibility for it, it's OK.

Gene G.

>

> Just a point of order.... You asked: Oh and since when could EMT-I give

> Benadryl??

>

> This depends on the service medical director... A service I worked for

> allowed his EMT-Is to administer SQ Epi and Benadryl IM in the event of an

> allergic reaction...

>

> EMT-P was given the addition of IV Epi / Benadryl and IV Solu-medrol. E

>

> So drugs are really up to the medical director's level of comfort... Well

> written protocols are as important as training.

>

> Joe Percer, LP

>

>

>

> > Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

> > in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

> > this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

> > not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> > unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

> > syndrome, but also s-' syndrome, but also s-

> > reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

> > spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

> >

> > Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

> > present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

> > deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

> > Like em better than .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a point of order.... You asked: Oh and since when could EMT-I give

Benadryl??

This depends on the service medical director... A service I worked for

allowed his EMT-Is to administer SQ Epi and Benadryl IM in the event of an

allergic reaction...

EMT-P was given the addition of IV Epi / Benadryl and IV Solu-medrol...

So drugs are really up to the medical director's level of comfort... Well

written protocols are as important as training.

Joe Percer, LP

> Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

> in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

> this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

> not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

> syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

> reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

> spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

>

> Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

> present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

> deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

> Like em better than .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Has anyone heard of the EMT-I I-99 protocol? Supposedly it allows EMT-I's to

practice at nearly a paramedic level. I am not real familiar with it. From

what I have heard of it, I'm not too sure if it's a good idea.

wrote: Hey I'm new to the group but have

been a paramedic for 4 years and been

in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

Like em better than .

[Guest guest]

It is not a protocol it's a curriculum and there is an NREMT test for same. It

is used in 4 maybe 6 states as a certification level. Texas tests and certifies

to the EMT-I (85) curriculum but as Jane pointed out most Programs teach more of

a hybrid. If you look at the EMT-I texts you will find both versions. I think J

and B has a single book with both. The current in force DOT NSC sets this.

I've heard some refer to it at Paramedic Lite but I never liked that term. I

think in VT or in that area it is the highest certification but that may be

dated?

Protocols are set only my a systems Medical Director.

LNM from Baku, AZ

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

Has anyone heard of the EMT-I I-99 protocol? Supposedly it allows EMT-I's to

practice at nearly a paramedic level. I am not real familiar with it. From

what I have heard of it, I'm not too sure if it's a good idea.

wrote: Hey I'm new to the group but have

been a paramedic for 4 years and been

in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

Like em better than .

[Guest guest]

now that is a medical director to have Lol let me do it all and on someone

Else's license

wegandy1938@... wrote: Since Texas has no state wide protocols,

and each service is 100% medical

director driven, if the medical director decides an EMT basic can do

trephination

of the skull and is willing to take responsibility for it, it's OK.

Gene G.

>

> Just a point of order.... You asked: Oh and since when could EMT-I give

> Benadryl??

>

> This depends on the service medical director... A service I worked for

> allowed his EMT-Is to administer SQ Epi and Benadryl IM in the event of an

> allergic reaction...

>

> EMT-P was given the addition of IV Epi / Benadryl and IV Solu-medrol. E

>

> So drugs are really up to the medical director's level of comfort... Well

> written protocols are as important as training.

>

> Joe Percer, LP

>

>

>

> > Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

> > in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

> > this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

> > not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> > unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

> > syndrome, but also s-' syndrome, but also s-

> > reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

> > spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

> >

> > Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

> > present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

> > deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

> > Like em better than .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Most Texas Medical Directors are very hands on.

LNM from Baku, AZ

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Re: IV antibiotics and EMT-I's

now that is a medical director to have Lol let me do it all and on someone

Else's license

wegandy1938@... wrote: Since Texas has no state wide protocols,

and each service is 100% medical

director driven, if the medical director decides an EMT basic can do

trephination

of the skull and is willing to take responsibility for it, it's OK.

Gene G.

>

> Just a point of order.... You asked: Oh and since when could EMT-I give

> Benadryl??

>

> This depends on the service medical director... A service I worked for

> allowed his EMT-Is to administer SQ Epi and Benadryl IM in the event of an

> allergic reaction...

>

> EMT-P was given the addition of IV Epi / Benadryl and IV Solu-medrol. E

>

> So drugs are really up to the medical director's level of comfort... Well

> written protocols are as important as training.

>

> Joe Percer, LP

>

>

>

> > Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years and been

> > in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money or

> > this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it may

> > not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> > unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red MAns

> > syndrome, but also s-' syndrome, but also s-

> > reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the pt

> > spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

> >

> > Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation could

> > present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a great

> > deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our Truck's.

> > Like em better than .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good point on the medical director and absolutely true.

>

> > Hey I'm new to the group but have been a paramedic for 4 years

and been

> > in EMS for 10. seems some people are always trying to save money

or

> > this may just be due to lack of paramedics. This could work or it

may

> > not work. it depends on whether or not the EMT-I is part of a MICU

> > unit or an ALS unit. Some food for thought though: not just Red

MAns

> > syndrome, but also s-'s Syndrome, delayed allergic

> > reaction, anaphylatic shock, and depending on the severity of the

pt

> > spetic shock. Oh and since when could EMT-I give Benadryl??

> >

> > Anyway, not in favor of it and see where a very serious situation

could

> > present itself and cost the service and individuals involved a

great

> > deal. Oh by the way have a Mosby's Drug Guide in all of our

Truck's.

> > Like em better than .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>