High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

February 13, 2012

Hi guys,I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i

decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent resultsThe strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite

high.I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut

autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?Many thanks, To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PM Subject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and

in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

I'm gonna pipe in and say that i was thinking she might do well with a general multi-mineral. I def wouldn't stop the zinc if things get worse without it but she may need more of the others to balance things out.

Have you read Dr. Kliinghardt at all? You can also google " copper" and see if any of that strikes you.

Just tossing around some ideas...

Tammy

Sent from my Kindle Fire

February 13, 2012

Oh ,

I feel your frustration. The levels that you have mentioned do seem high. I have

a few questions though. What was the reasoning for starting your 2 year old

daughter on zinc by her doctor? Did she check a serum zinc/copper ratio? As long

as I remember from your previous posts, she is not on spectrum. And I do agree

with you that the dose that she was on was too high for a little girl. I did

post a link a few days ago regarding zinc leading to elevated testosterone. It

is a known side effect and that is the reason body builders use to build

muscles. I just pulled out my son's lab results and his total testosterone was

24 and his androstanedione was 32. When he was tested, he was taking 50 mg of

zinc by Twin labs and was also getting 10 mg thru vitaspectrum. As soon as I got

the result, I stopped the zinc. His blood work was repeated in 3 weeks and the

levels had come back to normal range. In his case, androstanedione was elevated

which indicated a possible adrenal source. He also had a DHEAS level,

17OHprogesterone, cortisol, FSH, LH. In terms of clinical signs, he is not

growing too fast now. His upper lip hair are gradually becoming darker, overall

body hair is still fine but getting a little longer and darker but his testes

are still prepubertal in my opinion. Does it mean that his elevated testosterone

was from high dose zinc? I cannot say for sure. I will let you know what the

endocrinologist says. My suggestion to u is to stop the zinc at least for few

days, repeat hormonal workup and try to get your daughter evaluated by a

pediatric endocrinologist right away. I am sure that an endocrinologist would

want to repeat the hormones your daughter already had and would add a few more

like prolactin, DHEAS etc. As far as behaviors are concerned, aggression and

difficult behavior could come from elevated testosterone also. I hope this helps

and I will keep you posted about what I learn from my endocrinologist. Good

luck.

is

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! ï¿½I am sooooo

frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my

kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they

look really high to me. ï¿½I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones

because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too

much. ï¿½She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your

next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does

limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she

knows what to do. ï¿½I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can

help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont

want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen

locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things

worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

>

> The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19,

androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo

23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the

testosterone quite high.

>

> I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins,

probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often

sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and

down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their

guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when

i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. ï¿½I am now wondering if when she was put

on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that

messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very

high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must

have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but

language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

>

> If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

>

> Many thanks,

>

February 13, 2012

some people beleive that it not an issue to mix together....but i notice for my son...oil vitamins or oil supps i only give with food or alone....b vitamins i give beginning meal with minerals end of meal .....my sons liquid minerals have zinc and copper together but because i want make sure the copper is absorbed i will give by itself with meal with b complex and give multi mineral at diffrent meal with b complex....

when i finally get the liquid zinc that i been wiating on i will alternate days with copper and zinc...but because i want the problem your having i will give zinc most days and copper only once a week or if I feel he needs it...

if it were me i would space the zinc more from the probiotic...but if it is workin then dont worry bout it...

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

also im sure you heard molybedenum spose help with copper balancing/biovaiability and sometimes copper is high but still not getting in cells cuz it wrong kind of copper....

also gray hair is sign of copper defiecency....all this is not proven in testing just me skimming thru lots of articles....i dont stop to see which has docter approved study written on it...just collect data and go with what makes some sense...

chanan

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

Thank you tammy! I've asked before about wilson's too but need to push to see how we test for it...the genetic dr we saw was pretty unhelpful so not sure where to ask next...maybe our next woeller appt....haven't read yet on klinghardt but need to add him to my list...i am also wondering if it could be parasites too bc I think I read somewhere that zinc helps to keep the parasites at bay?? -- Sent from my Palm Pre

I'm gonna pipe in and say that i was thinking she might do well with a general multi-mineral. I def wouldn't stop the zinc if things get worse without it but she may need more of the others to balance things out.

Have you read Dr. Kliinghardt at all? You can also google " copper" and see if any of that strikes you.

Just tossing around some ideas...

Tammy

Sent from my Kindle Fire

February 13, 2012

let me rephrase that maybe some articles are from proven studies but i just dont pay attention to that....not enuff time for that i just speed read thru tons of stuff at a time...

ok I am talkin like a drunk person sadly without havin drunk anything but flat coke...im goin to bed my warrior friends...

channa

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:40 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

also im sure you heard molybedenum spose help with copper balancing/biovaiability and sometimes copper is high but still not getting in cells cuz it wrong kind of copper....

also gray hair is sign of copper defiecency....all this is not proven in testing just me skimming thru lots of articles....i dont stop to see which has docter approved study written on it...just collect data and go with what makes some sense...

chanan

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 13, 2012

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i

decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite

high.I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut

autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565

------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 13, 2012

Thank you alexis for the advice!! I am so on the fence as to what to do....hoping dr. Woeller will respond to my recent query...i am thinking I should try to bring it down again slowly and see what happens (making sure there is nothing else that could cause negative behaviors) and take out everything else except basic multi, probiotics and enzymes....fingers crossed!-- Sent from my Palm Pre

Oh ,

I feel your frustration. The levels that you have mentioned do seem high. I have a few questions though. What was the reasoning for starting your 2 year old daughter on zinc by her doctor? Did she check a serum zinc/copper ratio? As long as I remember from your previous posts, she is not on spectrum. And I do agree with you that the dose that she was on was too high for a little girl. I did post a link a few days ago regarding zinc leading to elevated testosterone. It is a known side effect and that is the reason body builders use to build muscles. I just pulled out my son's lab results and his total testosterone was 24 and his androstanedione was 32. When he was tested, he was taking 50 mg of zinc by Twin labs and was also getting 10 mg thru vitaspectrum. As soon as I got the result, I stopped the zinc. His blood work was repeated in 3 weeks and the levels had come back to normal range. In his case, androstanedione was elevated which indicated a possible adrenal source. He also had a DHEAS level, 17OHprogesterone, cortisol, FSH, LH. In terms of clinical signs, he is not growing too fast now. His upper lip hair are gradually becoming darker, overall body hair is still fine but getting a little longer and darker but his testes are still prepubertal in my opinion. Does it mean that his elevated testosterone was from high dose zinc? I cannot say for sure. I will let you know what the endocrinologist says. My suggestion to u is to stop the zinc at least for few days, repeat hormonal workup and try to get your daughter evaluated by a pediatric endocrinologist right away. I am sure that an endocrinologist would want to repeat the hormones your daughter already had and would add a few more like prolactin, DHEAS etc. As far as behaviors are concerned, aggression and difficult behavior could come from elevated testosterone also. I hope this helps and I will keep you posted about what I learn from my endocrinologist. Good luck.

is

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! Ã¯Â¿Â½I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. Ã¯Â¿Â½I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. Ã¯Â¿Â½She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. Ã¯Â¿Â½I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

>

> The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

>

> I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. Ã¯Â¿Â½I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

>

> If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

>

> Many thanks,

>

February 13, 2012

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i

decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite

high.I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut

autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565

------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 13, 2012

I give my carnosine with molybdenum and zinc, it is supposed to help with the copper " concern " but since your child seems to fluctuate between the two, it doesnt sound like " too much copper " will be a problem. Pubmed info seems to indicate it helps move zinc and copper in and out of cells?

It is supposed to help cognitive abilities in alzheimers and dementia, I figure if it can help with thatbad of issues, it can help our kids (and I use it too!)

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i

decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite

high.I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut

autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565

------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565

------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 13, 2012

-Are both your kids on the Spectrum? There is a theory out there about testosterone being the reason we see ASD in more boys than girls and when we do see it in girls,its generally because they have high levels of testosterone.You said you may just stop everything and do some basics, it may be helpful to take a supplement break.if you think their issues are immune related maybe you should check into seeing one of the NIDS docs.There are several people on this list who do NIDS protocol that would probably help you along the way.Also,do you have any concern for metal toxicity? It throws most of the hormones out of balance until metals are cleared.HTH,Melinda

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:34 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

I give my carnosine with molybdenum and zinc, it is supposed to help with the copper "concern"but since your child seems to fluctuate between the two, it doesnt sound like "too much copper"will be a problem. Pubmed info seems to indicate it helps move zinc and copper in and out of cells?It is supposed to help cognitive abilities in alzheimers and dementia, I figure if it can help with thatbad of issues, it can help our kids (and I use it too!)

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping

just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 14, 2012

Thank you Melinda! I have been considering NIDS or SCIA and will discuss this at our next appt with our DAN. And yes metals are an issue for both kids i am sure. Do you know where to find NIDS drs or can DANs do NIDS too? As far as the testosterone levels goes, I am almost certain my daughter's levels rose with the increase in zinc supplementation bc of the way she changed while on the high doses. My son also changed too so I am planning to have his testosterone level rechecked -- and I have his levels from this Spring (which were low) and this fall (which started to rise). My kids have almost identical OATs and other tests (but my daughter has good language, cognition, social etc)....all very tiring and confusing...hoping to find an answer soon....many thanks for your

input!! To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:25 AM Subject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

-Are both your kids on the Spectrum? There is a theory out there about testosterone being the reason we see ASD in more boys than girls and when we do see it in girls,its generally because they have high levels of testosterone.You said you may just stop everything and do some basics, it may be helpful to take a supplement break.if you think their issues are immune related maybe you should check into seeing one of the NIDS docs.There are several people on this list who do NIDS protocol that would probably help you along the way.Also,do you have any concern for metal toxicity? It throws most of the hormones out of balance until metals are cleared.HTH,Melinda

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:34 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

I give my carnosine with molybdenum and zinc, it is supposed to help with the copper "concern"but since your child seems to fluctuate between the two, it doesnt sound like "too much copper"will be a problem. Pubmed info seems to indicate it helps move zinc and copper in and out of cells?It is supposed to help cognitive abilities in alzheimers and dementia, I figure if it can help with thatbad of issues, it can help our kids (and I use it too!)

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping

just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 14, 2012

Hi Channa,Did you ask me how much my son grew with the zinc? I cannot remember if i replied! I did not check his height before we increased the zinc to 90mg this fall (October i think) but i noticed a major growth spurt (he also looked stronger). Of course, part of this could have been the flagyl and sporonox which helped heal his gut for awhile. Anyway, we recently had his 5 year check up and he was in the 90% for height whereas last year at 4years old he was in the 50% range. Unfortunately, with his latest illness he is looking weaker (he has done this the last couple of winters) but I am hoping this year we will get him healthier quicker....hope your son adds a few inches and pounds

too!!hugs,megan To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:36 PM Subject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

some people beleive that it not an issue to mix together....but i notice for my son...oil vitamins or oil supps i only give with food or alone....b vitamins i give beginning meal with minerals end of meal .....my sons liquid minerals have zinc and copper together but because i want make sure the copper is absorbed i will give by itself with meal with b complex and give multi mineral at diffrent meal with b complex....

when i finally get the liquid zinc that i been wiating on i will alternate days with copper and zinc...but because i want the problem your having i will give zinc most days and copper only once a week or if I feel he needs it...

if it were me i would space the zinc more from the probiotic...but if it is workin then dont worry bout it...

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and

in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 14, 2012

Dr.Goldberg in California and Dr. in Texas are both NIDS docs,they have a website that has alot of great info as well.Good luck . Melinda

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:46 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Melinda! I have been considering NIDS or SCIA and will discuss this at our next appt with our DAN. And yes metals are an issue for both kids i am sure. Do you know where to find NIDS drs or can DANs do NIDS too? As far as the testosterone levels goes, I am almost certain my daughter's levels rose with the increase in zinc supplementation bc of the way she changed while on the high doses. My son also changed too so I am planning to have his testosterone level rechecked -- and I have his levels from this Spring (which were low) and this fall (which started to rise). My kids have almost identical OATs and other tests (but my daughter has good language, cognition, social etc)....all very tiring and confusing...hoping to find an answer soon....many thanks for your input!!

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:25 AMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

-Are both your kids on the Spectrum? There is a theory out there about testosterone being the reason we see ASD in more boys than girls and when we do see it in girls,its generally because they have high levels of testosterone.You said you may just stop everything and do some basics, it may be helpful to take a supplement break.if you think their issues are immune related maybe you should check into seeing one of the NIDS docs.There are several people on this list who do NIDS protocol that would probably help you along the way.Also,do you have any concern for metal toxicity? It throws most of the hormones out of balance until metals are cleared.HTH,Melinda

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:34 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

I give my carnosine with molybdenum and zinc, it is supposed to help with the copper "concern"but since your child seems to fluctuate between the two, it doesnt sound like "too much copper"will be a problem. Pubmed info seems to indicate it helps move zinc and copper in and out of cells?It is supposed to help cognitive abilities in alzheimers and dementia, I figure if it can help with thatbad of issues, it can help our kids (and I use it too!)

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping

just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 14, 2012

...i was actually curious what your sons weight was when you had him on the 90 mg zinc...i just trying to guage how much to give my son..he is only 39 pounds soaking wet...and im trying to find the theraputic dose

channa

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:53 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi Channa,

Did you ask me how much my son grew with the zinc? I cannot remember if i replied! I did not check his height before we increased the zinc to 90mg this fall (October i think) but i noticed a major growth spurt (he also looked stronger). Of course, part of this could have been the flagyl and sporonox which helped heal his gut for awhile. Anyway, we recently had his 5 year check up and he was in the 90% for height whereas last year at 4years old he was in the 50% range. Unfortunately, with his latest illness he is looking weaker (he has done this the last couple of winters) but I am hoping this year we will get him healthier quicker....hope your son adds a few inches and pounds too!!

hugs,

megan

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:36 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

some people beleive that it not an issue to mix together....but i notice for my son...oil vitamins or oil supps i only give with food or alone....b vitamins i give beginning meal with minerals end of meal .....my sons liquid minerals have zinc and copper together but because i want make sure the copper is absorbed i will give by itself with meal with b complex and give multi mineral at diffrent meal with b complex....

when i finally get the liquid zinc that i been wiating on i will alternate days with copper and zinc...but because i want the problem your having i will give zinc most days and copper only once a week or if I feel he needs it...

if it were me i would space the zinc more from the probiotic...but if it is workin then dont worry bout it...

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 14, 2012

He fluctuated between 37 and 42 last year, depending on how loose his stool was...he is now about 43 or 44, although I haven't weighed him since this latest illness...I would have to recheck my notes but I think we upped him from 60 to 90 from oct until early jan. His levels had risen to within range (still low) at his test in jan so the dr said to bring him back down to 60. I have since uped it to 75 bc I think that 60 was too low (this inlcudes 15 in a multi and 60 picolinate). I have often read and heard from other groups that the general rule for zinc and kids on the spectrum is weight plus 20. I am not sure if this is falling out of favor though bc i've read other drs don't like to have one mineral so high (dr. Woeller for example)...anyway, I would recommend upping slowly and see how it goes....hope this helps!!...-- Sent from my Palm Pre

...i was actually curious what your sons weight was when you had him on the 90 mg zinc...i just trying to guage how much to give my son..he is only 39 pounds soaking wet...and im trying to find the theraputic dose

channa

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:53 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi Channa,

Did you ask me how much my son grew with the zinc? I cannot remember if i replied! I did not check his height before we increased the zinc to 90mg this fall (October i think) but i noticed a major growth spurt (he also looked stronger). Of course, part of this could have been the flagyl and sporonox which helped heal his gut for awhile. Anyway, we recently had his 5 year check up and he was in the 90% for height whereas last year at 4years old he was in the 50% range. Unfortunately, with his latest illness he is looking weaker (he has done this the last couple of winters) but I am hoping this year we will get him healthier quicker....hope your son adds a few inches and pounds too!!

hugs,

megan

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:36 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

some people beleive that it not an issue to mix together....but i notice for my son...oil vitamins or oil supps i only give with food or alone....b vitamins i give beginning meal with minerals end of meal .....my sons liquid minerals have zinc and copper together but because i want make sure the copper is absorbed i will give by itself with meal with b complex and give multi mineral at diffrent meal with b complex....

when i finally get the liquid zinc that i been wiating on i will alternate days with copper and zinc...but because i want the problem your having i will give zinc most days and copper only once a week or if I feel he needs it...

if it were me i would space the zinc more from the probiotic...but if it is workin then dont worry bout it...

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 14, 2012

yes this helps! thank you megan! im hopin so much this is the ticket for my son...with his growth issues

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:57 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

He fluctuated between 37 and 42 last year, depending on how loose his stool was...he is now about 43 or 44, although I haven't weighed him since this latest illness...I would have to recheck my notes but I think we upped him from 60 to 90 from oct until early jan. His levels had risen to within range (still low) at his test in jan so the dr said to bring him back down to 60. I have since uped it to 75 bc I think that 60 was too low (this inlcudes 15 in a multi and 60 picolinate). I have often read and heard from other groups that the general rule for zinc and kids on the spectrum is weight plus 20. I am not sure if this is falling out of favor though bc i've read other drs don't like to have one mineral so high (dr. Woeller for example)...anyway, I would recommend upping slowly and see how it goes....hope this helps!!...

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

...i was actually curious what your sons weight was when you had him on the 90 mg zinc...i just trying to guage how much to give my son..he is only 39 pounds soaking wet...and im trying to find the theraputic dose

channa

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:53 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi Channa,

Did you ask me how much my son grew with the zinc? I cannot remember if i replied! I did not check his height before we increased the zinc to 90mg this fall (October i think) but i noticed a major growth spurt (he also looked stronger). Of course, part of this could have been the flagyl and sporonox which helped heal his gut for awhile. Anyway, we recently had his 5 year check up and he was in the 90% for height whereas last year at 4years old he was in the 50% range. Unfortunately, with his latest illness he is looking weaker (he has done this the last couple of winters) but I am hoping this year we will get him healthier quicker....hope your son adds a few inches and pounds too!!

hugs,

megan

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:36 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

some people beleive that it not an issue to mix together....but i notice for my son...oil vitamins or oil supps i only give with food or alone....b vitamins i give beginning meal with minerals end of meal .....my sons liquid minerals have zinc and copper together but because i want make sure the copper is absorbed i will give by itself with meal with b complex and give multi mineral at diffrent meal with b complex....

when i finally get the liquid zinc that i been wiating on i will alternate days with copper and zinc...but because i want the problem your having i will give zinc most days and copper only once a week or if I feel he needs it...

if it were me i would space the zinc more from the probiotic...but if it is workin then dont worry bout it...

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Thank you Channa! Interestingly I remember my daughter's copper was too high last spring and the zinc too low so that is why they put her on the high zinc to begin with....so maybe it was too much and she dumped too much copper??....thank you for the note on the minerals away from oils and probiotics....i am finding it so hard to fit everything in. We are currently giving the zinc about an hour after lunch and 1-1.5 hrs after dinner (supplements, including oils, and small calcium in multi), 30minutes-1 hr after citrus pectin (for my son only) and 30minutes before probiotics. Do you think that is a problem?

Many thanks,

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:07 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

as i did my research on zinc and copper I had come across some info about copper bein the feminine mineral and zinc bein the masculine mineral....women are naturally higher in copper cuz we spose to be and men higher in zinc.....so if it were me I would start your girl on some copper...i really like the one by nutricology copper sebacate...that is the only straight copper i have used thus far...

just an idea to try....if she does good on zinc then keep the zinc and just add in copper at diffrent times! i also dont give minerals give with probiotics or oils

channa

To: mb12valtrex <mb12valtrex > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:45 PMSubject: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in

the Chicago area are not helping just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

February 15, 2012

To get a true picture of hormone levels you need to check more than just testosterone. There is a whole list of androgens and FSH that should be tested as well.K

Thank you Melinda! I have been considering NIDS or SCIA and will discuss this at our next appt with our DAN. And yes metals are an issue for both kids i am sure. Do you know where to find NIDS drs or can DANs do NIDS too? As far as the testosterone levels goes, I am almost certain my daughter's levels rose with the increase in zinc supplementation bc of the way she changed while on the high doses. My son also changed too so I am planning to have his testosterone level rechecked -- and I have his levels from this Spring (which were low) and this fall (which started to rise). My kids have almost identical OATs and other tests (but my daughter has good language, cognition, social etc)....all very tiring and confusing...hoping to find an answer soon....many thanks for your

input!!

To: " mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:25 AM Subject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

-Are both your kids on the Spectrum? There is a theory out there about testosterone being the reason we see ASD in more boys than girls and when we do see it in girls,its generally because they have high levels of testosterone.You said you may just stop everything and do some basics, it may be helpful to take a supplement break.if you think their issues are immune related maybe you should check into seeing one of the NIDS docs.There are several people on this list who do NIDS protocol that would probably help you along the way.Also,do you have any concern for metal toxicity? It throws most of the hormones out of balance until metals are cleared.HTH,Melinda

To: mb12valtrex

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:34 PMSubject: Re: High testosterone in my 2year old daughter:( What do I do??

I give my carnosine with molybdenum and zinc, it is supposed to help with the copper " concern " but since your child seems to fluctuate between the two, it doesnt sound like " too much copper "

will be a problem. Pubmed info seems to indicate it helps move zinc and copper in and out of cells?It is supposed to help cognitive abilities in alzheimers and dementia, I figure if it can help with thatbad of issues, it can help our kids (and I use it too!)

Thank you toni!! I have thought about carnosine too (we have some in our cabinet)...Need to look more into this!!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

If you have a hard time balancing zinc and copper, carnosine is supposed to help.There is some warning on onibasu about supplementing carnosine but ithas been a good thing here.Not sure about the testosterone directly tho.

Hi guys,

I could use some advice again from you lovely people!!! I am sooooo frustrated because i keep feeling biomed stuff often makes things worse for my kids:(.....I finally got back the results on my daughter's testosterone and they look really high to me. I had asked our local dr. here to test her hormones because i was concerned that the zinc was making her too boyish look/grow too much. She didnt want to test her -- stalled on it....let's wait until your next appt..blah, blah....so i decided to switch over to another NP who does limited DAN stuff and asked her to run some tests....problem is i dont think she knows what to do. I am making an appt. with Dr. Woeller so i am hoping he can help but we wont be able to talk to him for a couple of weeks....ughhh i dont want my little girl to turn into a boy and feeling like the drs. we have seen locally and in the Chicago area are not helping

just making things worse.....Anyway, here are her recent results

The strep titers were negative, vit d 93, the estrogen 67, progesterone 0.19, androstenedione 8, total testosterone 155, free testo 10.4, bioavailable testo 23.1 sex hormone binding globulin 66 and albumin 4.9. All normal except the testosterone quite high.

I am so tempted to stop everything except 2 children's multivitamins, probiotics, and enzymes and see what happens....i think she and my son are often sensitive to so many of these supplements anyway....or their levels swing up and down so quickly.....the problem is i have noticed when we drop the zinc their guts get worse and recently she became very clingly, whiney, couldnt sleep when i had dropped her zinc down to 35mgs. I am now wondering if when she was put on zinc last spring at 40 or 60mgs that it was too high of a dose and that messed up her system....her last zinc test showed very low RBC zinc but very high serum zinc so it is not getting into her cells....anyway, i think she must have some sort of gut autoimmune disorder that we havent figured out yet but language wise, cognition and social skills are all really good.....

If anyone has any ideas on what to do with this, please let me know!!

Many thanks,

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565------

Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find info about Vitamins and Minerals:http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543521682565

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click to find links to info about the Low Oxalate Diet :http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150543495292565

------Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 15, 2012

Usually it's 20mg+their weight.

For instance, Tom is 80lbs. So he would take 100mg.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

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