I feel guilty that I haven't spoken to my mother in 2 weeks

[Guest guest]

I know I shouldn't.  Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about it.

And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty about it. I

couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she is, is she ok, is she afraid of

the thunderstorm tonight, things like that.  I feel responsible for her, and

like I'm letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada won't

be ok unless they are involved in their lives?  I know it's not realistic and

not based on reality and untrue, but I feel like, unless I'm involved in her

life, she won't be ok.

On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here, " she steps on my

foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. "  I want an apology from her after our

argument 2 weeks ago and for her to initiate reconciliation for once, but I

don't think that's going to happen.

Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2 weeks??   Even though

I've been so proud of being " LC " with her - talking once a day for a few minutes

and seeing her for an hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all that LC.

 She is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days I take off

from work that I'm not at work and make up some reason. I resent having to visit

her every, single Sunday. I resent that it's expected.

I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that she expects and

feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

Any advice?

[Guest guest]

This is just my opinion and I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that you

have been " parentalized " by your nada. You have accepted the role and

responsibility she assigned you at some early stage of your life to be the

" mother " in your relationship.

Grown-up people aren't scared during thunderstorms, but little children are.

Your mother is an adult and she has the ability to choose at any moment in time

to go get therapy for herself and learn healthy ways to soothe herself and

regulate her moods more effectively. If you step in and do things for her that

she should be doing for herself, in a way you are enabling her to remain

dependent and needy.

I can totally relate to knowing/understanding something intellectually, but not

being able to accept the reality in your heart and psyche. It really is two

different things to know something, and to accept it.

Have you read any of the books about overcoming co-dependency, which is an

unhealthy feeling of responsibility for another person's feelings and well-being

when its not your job at all? " Co-dependent No More " gets recommended here

often.

I'm going to suggest the same thing to you that I suggested to my own Sister,

who was feeling very responsible for our nada's feelings and well-being for

quite a while, for a decade after our dad died.

Although Sister was going over to our mom's (our " nada's " ) home twice a week,

then increased to three times a week, it wasn't enough for nada. Nada would

complain and make Sister feel guilty and selfish for not coming over even more

often. Never mind that at the time my Sister had a full-time job and was

raising a teenage son. Mom didn't care about Sister's needs or feelings, it was

always, only about mom.

So I told my Sister, please do NOT feel guilty; nothing we do for mom is ever

enough... ever.

Please take time off for yourself, I begged her. Only go over once a week, or

once every two weeks, or once a month, because even if you went over EVERY DAY

you would not be there enough to suit mom and she would complain. She'd even

find something else to complain about.

It took a psychologist saying the exact same thing for this advice to register

with my Sister. For whatever reason, she was able to hear it and accept it and

feel absolved from her misplaced, inappropriate feelings of guilt when the

advice came from the psychologist. Maybe my Sister needed to hear it from a

male authority figure? Hey, whatever works for you, works for you. Sister

finally was able to shed her misplaced, inappropriate guilt and she now sees our

mother only once a month. And I was right, it made no difference. Mom is about

as unhappy at that point as she was before.

In the last few months my nada began actively hallucinating, and now she's in a

psychotic state (hallucinating, not connected with reality) most of the time and

has been relocated to an assisted living residence for her own safety. (She had

taken to wandering around the grounds of her apartment complex at night.) I'm

hoping that between having other people around her all the time and the meds

will help her feel safer and happier.

So, anyway. You have to do what you feel will work for you. I hope you will

find some way to unburden yourself from the weight of inappropriate

responsibility you were saddled with, probably as a child, of care-taking your

mother's feelings.

Your mother's happiness or unhappiness is her own responsibility, not yours.

-Annie

>

> I know I shouldn't.  Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about it.

>

> And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty about it. I

couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she is, is she ok, is she afraid of

the thunderstorm tonight, things like that.  I feel responsible for her, and

like I'm letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada won't

be ok unless they are involved in their lives?  I know it's not realistic and

not based on reality and untrue, but I feel like, unless I'm involved in her

life, she won't be ok.

>

> On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here, " she steps on my

foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. "  I want an apology from her after our

argument 2 weeks ago and for her to initiate reconciliation for once, but I

don't think that's going to happen.

>

> Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2 weeks??   Even though

I've been so proud of being " LC " with her - talking once a day for a few minutes

and seeing her for an hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all that LC.

 She is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days I take off

from work that I'm not at work and make up some reason. I resent having to visit

her every, single Sunday. I resent that it's expected.

>

> I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that she expects and

feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

>

> I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

>

> Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

Ah Fiona, I believe - my fellow parentified daughter/waif nada having

friend? ;-)

I totallllllly understand where you are coming from. Once you went NC for

those 2 weeks - which can feel like months in some ways and minutes in

others, you get some clarity... and realize, " I don't want it to go back to the

way it was " . The thunderstorm would be an easy suck back in situation,

where you take care of her, worry about her, and in her mind she is allowed

to just go right back where she was without having to take any personal

responsibility for the argument and things that were said.

I just had a really similar situation... my nada, my husband and I got in a

huge fight and she moved out (which was sooo needed). I told her I didn't

want to talk to her for awhile. During that time I got *really* sick.

My family wondered if I had told her anything that was going on with me, but

I knew that if I let her in, even a little bit, she would use it as an

excuse and would weasle back in under the premise of worrying about me, and she

could just completely brush over all the horrible things she said and act

like nothing at all had happened!

Now I have to really figure out what I want our relationship to 'look like'

once we start really talking again. It's made more difficult by her

confusing behaviors - she said absolutely awful things to my currently 'all bad'

husband, and then sent him nice texts and even a text and anniversary card

for our anniversary. WTH?! Did she forget that she told him " I lost my

daughter the day she married you " ?! among other things like what a bad

husband he was?

I think you could use the NC as a way to gather a little resistance to her,

and to your history, and make some good boundaries as you enter back into

the relationship. I'm working on not getting personally and emotionally

involved in the decisions my nada makes. It's so freaking hard... I am sure

I am going to trip up a lot. But at least I have a starting point (the NC

period). I'm working with a therapist to get in touch with my emotions

about it all, and create healthy boundaries. Maybe you can do that too? I

keep meaning to get the co-dependant book that Annie has recommended...

probably would be really helpful. A support group would be nice - someone to

talk you off the ledge when you call and say " help me, I am feeling guilty

and might call my nada " . LOL I guess that is what we have here!!!

Sorry that post was all over the place - I guess I just want to say - I GET

IT! ;-)

Take care of yourself,

*Star

[Guest guest]

I'd say just stop doing the sunday thing. she will rant and rave, but too bad

for her - it's up to you to live your life happy and you are in complete control

.. You don't HAVE to do anything for her if you don't want to. You are a free

human being - we are all born free and have the full right to be happy. Live

selfishly for once. That would be my advice.

N

> I know I shouldn't. Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about it.

>

> And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty about it. I

couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she is, is she ok, is she afraid of

the thunderstorm tonight, things like that. I feel responsible for her, and

like I'm letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada won't

be ok unless they are involved in their lives? I know it's not realistic and

not based on reality and untrue, but I feel like, unless I'm involved in her

life, she won't be ok.

>

> On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here, " she steps on my

foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. " I want an apology from her after our

argument 2 weeks ago and for her to initiate reconciliation for once, but I

don't think that's going to happen.

>

> Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2 weeks?? Even though

I've been so proud of being " LC " with her - talking once a day for a few minutes

and seeing her for an hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all that LC.

She is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days I take off

from work that I'm not at work and make up some reason. I resent having to visit

her every, single Sunday. I resent that it's expected.

>

> I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that she expects and

feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

>

> I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

>

> Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Annie. I have a copy of Codependent No More and haven't read it in a

while. I'm going to do so.

I know at some point, I will be speaking again to my mother and I'm gearing up

for some big conversation....that in all reality will not happen. She will

never, ever sit down with me to have a " heart to heart " talk. She is too

fearful, anxious, and rageful to do that.

I just want to tell her to not tell me what I should eat or do, not tell my kids

what to eat or do, and especially to tell her that I will come over every other

week and call once a week. THAT'S going to be a tough conversation. Good for

your sister for doing it! She's my hero!!

> >

> > I know I shouldn't.  Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about it.

> >

> > And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty about it. I

couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she is, is she ok, is she afraid of

the thunderstorm tonight, things like that.  I feel responsible for her, and

like I'm letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada won't

be ok unless they are involved in their lives?  I know it's not realistic and

not based on reality and untrue, but I feel like, unless I'm involved in her

life, she won't be ok.

> >

> > On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here, " she steps on

my foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. "  I want an apology from her after

our argument 2 weeks ago and for her to initiate reconciliation for once, but I

don't think that's going to happen.

> >

> > Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2 weeks??   Even

though I've been so proud of being " LC " with her - talking once a day for a few

minutes and seeing her for an hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all

that LC.  She is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days I

take off from work that I'm not at work and make up some reason. I resent having

to visit her every, single Sunday. I resent that it's expected.

> >

> > I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that she expects and

feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

> >

> > I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

> >

> > Any advice?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Fiona,

You're right that you shouldn't feel guilty about it. If you

know that but still have problems with how you feel, you may

need to get some professional help with it. You've spent a

lifetime being trained to act that way. Undoing that will take

time and strength. It may help if you think about how

interacting with her is affecting your children. Your primary

responsibility is to them at this point and it is obvious from

your previous comments that she is perfectly willing to hurt

them. Even if you keep her away from them and just deal with her

yourself, the way she treats you has to have an affect on your

mood, energy level and maybe even your physical health, all of

which are important for parenting. Seen from that perspective,

it may be easier to clearly see what choices you should make.

Talking once a day and visiting for an hour and a half each week

isn't " low contact " even if it is a lot lower than you've

previously had. That's more contact than many people have with

their normal, non-abusive mothers. Having to explain to her why

you aren't at work is ridiculous. That's your business, not

hers. I'd recommend stopping that. If she refuses to drop the

subject, let that be the end of the conversation. If you don't

want to visit her every Sunday, then stop visiting her every

Sunday. She won't like it, but let that be her problem, not

yours.

For now, I'd recommend enjoying the time without speaking to

her. She's likely to decide to contact you again and when she

does, she's almost certain to go back to her old ways soon

afterward even if she decides to play nice for a little while.

I'd recommend having some additional boundaries set in your mind

in preparation for that - things like " my work schedule is my

business, not hers " and " saying hurtful things to my children is

not acceptable " . You don't have to tell her the boundaries, but

it helps a lot to have them set in your mind before they're

needed. Deciding what is and isn't acceptable is much harder to

do if you have to figure it out in the heat of the moment.

At 09:22 PM 07/05/2011 Fiona wrote:

>I know I shouldn't. Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about

>it.

>

>And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty

>about it. I couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she

>is, is she ok, is she afraid of the thunderstorm tonight,

>things like that. I feel responsible for her, and like I'm

>letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada

>won't be ok unless they are involved in their lives? I know

>it's not realistic and not based on reality and untrue, but I

>feel like, unless I'm involved in her life, she won't be ok.

>

>On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here,

> " she steps on my foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. " I

>want an apology from her after our argument 2 weeks ago and for

>her to initiate reconciliation for once, but I don't think

>that's going to happen.

>

>Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2

>weeks?? Even though I've been so proud of being " LC " with her

>- talking once a day for a few minutes and seeing her for an

>hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all that LC. She

>is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days

>I take off from work that I'm not at work and make up some

>reason. I resent having to visit her every, single Sunday. I

>resent that it's expected.

>

>I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that

>she expects and feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

>

>I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

>

>Any advice?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

The thing is...

People like this want you to dandle them endlessly on your knee as if they were

babies. They won't be happy unless you're there, endlessly, on and on and on,

smiling, offering them candy, and making funny faces.

(I mean, I'm speaking metaphorically, here, but still.)

When I think of all I gave up, screwed up, and messed up in my life, trying to

make my mother happy...

....and guess what?? SHE STILL ISN'T HAPPY!

And then it dawned on me: She never will be. I let her tell me what to think,

what to like, how to conduct my friendships, who to be. (And said some really

hurtful things and messed up some friendships, because I was too worried about

what would happen if I didn't.) I bent wayyy over backwards, for wayyy wayyy

too long. And people like this still won't be happy.

Happiness for these people is something they hold out in front of you like a

mirage: " If only you would do this, then I would be happier. " But then you do

it, and they're still not happy. " If now only you would do THIS, THEN I would

be happier. " You do that...still they're not happy. Years later, you are miles

away from where you started, in a dark and misty jungle filled with wild animals

waiting to eat you alive, and they are still holding out that mirage, in the

distance, even further into the jungle: " If only you would do this, then I

would be happy...and you are a bad child if you don't do it! I

neee-EEE-eee-EEE-d it!!! "

At some point, you gotta recognize how deep you're really in, and that the

mirage isn't really there. It never was. It never will be.

Good luck, and God bless.

--.

[Guest guest]

Keep in mind that you do not have to explain any of this to your mother or get

her to buy into it; instead you simply revise your behaviors toward her.

If you are visiting her (I recommend only meeting with her in public places,

other people's homes, or at her home) and she does something or says something

inappropriate to your child, you simply leave.

" You know its not OK for you to (do that/say that) to the children, mom. We're

going to leave now. See you some other time. " Even if you just got there.

Its much easier and simpler for you to leave a place than to get your bpd mom to

leave your home. Your home needs to be your safe place that you can go to to

get distance and peace from her.

Just a option for you to consider; each of us has to do what we feel will work

best in our own situation.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I know I shouldn't.  Most days I feel perfectly wonderful about it.

> > >

> > > And then other days, like last night, and today, I feel guilty about it. I

couldn't sleep last night thinking about how she is, is she ok, is she afraid of

the thunderstorm tonight, things like that.  I feel responsible for her, and

like I'm letting her down somehow. Does anyone else feel like their nada won't

be ok unless they are involved in their lives?  I know it's not realistic and

not based on reality and untrue, but I feel like, unless I'm involved in her

life, she won't be ok.

> > >

> > > On the other hand, I totally get what someone else said here, " she steps

on my foot, but I'm expected to say I'm sorry. "  I want an apology from her

after our argument 2 weeks ago and for her to initiate reconciliation for once,

but I don't think that's going to happen.

> > >

> > > Can I tell you how weird I have been feeling the past 2 weeks??   Even

though I've been so proud of being " LC " with her - talking once a day for a few

minutes and seeing her for an hour and a half each Sunday - it really isn't all

that LC.  She is still so in my life that I resent having to explain on days I

take off from work that I'm not at work and make up some reason. I resent having

to visit her every, single Sunday. I resent that it's expected.

> > >

> > > I don't mind having her in my life, entirely. I do mind that she expects

and feels entitled to our rote " schedule. "

> > >

> > > I really want this to change if we ever talk again.

> > >

> > > Any advice?

> > >

> >

>