childhood stress leading to adult disease

[Guest guest]

An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

" What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

AND

" So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they are

grown?

Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

Eliza

[Guest guest]

Eliza,

Thanks for posting this. This is something I have always thought of, but never

was able to find out much about it.

My childhood was not necessarily violent, but of course, my dysfunctional family

had many other ways of inflicting harm.

I was a very sickly child and battled severe, life threatening asthma. I was

hospitalized a LOT. When I moved away for college and stayed away, I stopped

being sick. My asthma is gone. Weird huh?

Sara Jo

>

> An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

>

> " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

>

> The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

>

> AND

>

> " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they are

grown?

>

> Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

>

>

> http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

Not surprising about your asthma at all...since having a mother who is simply

depressed can cause a child and later adult physical health problems then having

a mother who has bpd has got to be bad for the health.

> >

> > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

> >

> > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> >

> > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> >

> > AND

> >

> > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they

are grown?

> >

> > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> >

> >

> > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> >

> > Eliza

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I think there is something to all this.

In my FOO, my nada was/is the queen, occassionally the waif and sometimes, but

less often, the witch. In adulthood my older sibling is an alcoholic, I am an

overeater and my younger sibling is a shopaholic and I suspect is NP if not BPD

herself.

My MIL is the queen, waif and major witch. My husband has chronic back pain and

multiple ailments (gastro intestinal, BP, heart, etc.) Both my BIL's have

medical issues (including alcohol issues) especially the youngest one who has

chronic kidney stone issues and a multitude of medical concerns, my SIL has also

chronic kidney problems and thyroid issues.

In addition, most of the time the tension between my husband and his siblings is

palpable and in my FOO we have major ego issues and there is always the unspoken

pink elephant in the room stuff going on. In my family we don't talk about it,

ever, but we play a little nicer than my DH family, at least most of the time.

ly it is a mess, and now that both my dad and my FIL are gone, I think many

of the " players " play less nicely.

> >

> > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

> >

> > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> >

> > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> >

> > AND

> >

> > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they

are grown?

> >

> > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> >

> >

> > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> >

> > Eliza

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Stress can do a lot of things to your health. I know all to well about childhood

stress and my own heath. It has taken me eight years to start to undo the health

issues cased by stress from my Nada. Lucky for me I am now making progress in

reversing my hormone imbalance (PCOS) that was caused by stress. I too have

asthma but, I was born with that. I was 3 months premature and since the lungs

are the last thing to develop I have a crappy upper resp. system. I am glad your

asthma is gone! You should still keep a inhaler just in case for some strange

reason an out of the blue attach happens.

B

Sent from my BlackBerry® device on the Simple Mobile network

Re: childhood stress leading to adult disease

Eliza,

Thanks for posting this. This is something I have always thought of, but never

was able to find out much about it.

My childhood was not necessarily violent, but of course, my dysfunctional family

had many other ways of inflicting harm.

I was a very sickly child and battled severe, life threatening asthma. I was

hospitalized a LOT. When I moved away for college and stayed away, I stopped

being sick. My asthma is gone. Weird huh?

Sara Jo

>

> An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

>

> " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

>

> The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

>

> AND

>

> " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they are

grown?

>

> Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

>

>

> http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it is

called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic urinary

tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would be dead

a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor that

moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out the

prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment before I

had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend who

did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain of

having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to get

it checked out.

as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever we

get together.

I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

Meikjn

> > >

> > > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

> > >

> > > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> > >

> > > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off

a series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> > >

> > > AND

> > >

> > > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they

are grown?

> > >

> > > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> > >

> > >

> > > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> > >

> > > Eliza

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Meikjn,

I think that I ask my self a hundred times a day, Why are people so mean to

others? I am sorry about what you are dealing with. I just can't wrap my mind

around how people can live with themselves

Sent from my BlackBerry® device on the Simple Mobile network

Re: childhood stress leading to adult disease

I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it is

called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic urinary

tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would be dead

a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor that

moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out the

prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment before I

had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend who

did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain of

having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to get

it checked out.

as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever we

get together.

I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

Meikjn

> > >

> > > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

> > >

> > > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> > >

> > > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off

a series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> > >

> > > AND

> > >

> > > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they

are grown?

> > >

> > > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> > >

> > >

> > > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> > >

> > > Eliza

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ooops I didn't mean to hit send I was trying to ease my typo. LOL

I don't understand how people can be so unfeeling to others. Do they have a

heart of stone? They must have an internal system that let's them know how

hurtful they are being, even with having a mental illness. On some level they

must understand their actions. I know my mom's down right evil. She plots and

plans all the time being nice to you then WAMA she hits you with such vengeance

that has been well thought out and planned. You can't tell me that she doesn't

understand what she is doing is wrong. I had to save an animals life bc of her

selfishness. Our next door neighbor had a cat, mind you for some reason my Mom

hates all cats. So, she was upset bc the cat would sleep on her car and, one day

she decided to try and poison the poor cat. I was so upset!!! She was telling me

about her plan she would get rubber gloves so, there would be no finger prints

on the poisoned can of tuna. She told me where she was going to put the can

so, I suck out and properly disposed of it so no harm would come to any animals.

It makes me sick how she plans mean evil things to do to people and animals. I

am most horrified by the fact she is allowed to teach children. That's why she

was worried about her finger prints on the can of tuna. I am sorry your mom

treats you that way. I wish all mother could be loving and supportive. Hugs

B

Sent from my BlackBerry® device on the Simple Mobile network

Re: childhood stress leading to adult disease

I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it is

called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic urinary

tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would be dead

a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor that

moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out the

prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment before I

had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend who

did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain of

having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to get

it checked out.

as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever we

get together.

I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

Meikjn

> > >

> > > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

> > >

> > > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> > >

> > > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off

a series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> > >

> > > AND

> > >

> > > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they

are grown?

> > >

> > > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> > >

> > >

> > > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> > >

> > > Eliza

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The layers of abuse go deep, don't they. I'm speculating that a similar

physical issue/physical damage was done to me in infancy by my nada.

I think that my nada may have kept me under-hydrated as an infant for two

reasons: first, she herself hated drinking water/liquids to stay properly

hydrated because it meant she would have to urninate frequently. It didn't

register with my nada that being chronically under-hydrated contributed to her

own chronic/lifelong problems with constipation.

In her borderline pd state, my nada did not separate her infants's needs from

her own. If nada wasn't thirsty (nada frequently would mention this, that she

never felt thirsty) then I, her infant, wasn't thirsty either.

The other reason, I'm speculating, is that my nada's extreme distaste with

anything messy or smelly made her loathe and resent having to change her

infant's diapers frequently. If she didn't give me plenty of water/juice,

there were fewer diapers to change and my infant stools wouldn't be as messy.

(My nada also had obsessive-compulsive pd, was hyper-neat, clean and organized,

and very nervous and perfectionistic. Messiness and disorder sent her over the

edge.)

The result: before I was one year old, I'd busted a gut (inguinal hernia) trying

to pass stool and had to have an emergency operation to put my intestine back in

place. The doctors recommended a second (non-emergency) operation to

proactively reinforce the muscles on the other side, about 6 months later.

Nobody on either side of my family, nada's or dad's side, had this " family

weakness " that nada always referred to. I asked. So I think that my needing

two operations before I was two years old (and the separation trauma that must

have engendered) was purely nada-induced, and contributed to nada developing a

fixed delusion that I, her infant, hated and rejected her.

Nada admitted to me that she had " given up on having a normal, loving

mother-daughter relationship " with me by the time I was three years old, because

*I*, her infant, hated her and rejected *her.* Can you say " Projection " ?

So, my personal feeling is that I agree: its not just dangerous to the child's

emotional health, its dangerous and possibly fatal to a child's physical

survival to be raised by an undiagnosed, untreated, unsupervised moderately to

severely mentally ill, Cluster B pd mother. They simply are not mentally

healthy enough to be trusted to raise a child. If the child manages to survive,

the stress-related injuries and conditions are still there to negatively impact

the KO's quality of life into adulthood.

This should be common knowledge that children are in very real danger from

mentally ill mothers, and there should be some sort of mandatory screening

process, mandatory educational classes and mandatory supervision given to

mothers who score moderate to high on personality disorder screening tests. And

fathers too. And yes, I realize that that is politically incorrect and Big

Brother-ish, but I can't think of a less invasive or intrusive way to deal with

this issue. I wish I could.

-Annie

>

> I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it

is called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

>

> the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic urinary

tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would be dead

a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor that

moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out the

prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment before I

had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

>

> the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

>

> she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

>

> many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

>

> I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend who

did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain of

having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to get

it checked out.

>

> as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

> but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever

we get together.

>

> I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

>

> the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

>

> this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

>

> and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

>

> Meikjn

[Guest guest]

I had more than a couple of genuinely severely mentally-ill teachers during my

school years; one of them was literally escorted out of our school one day,

leaving us kids in her classroom both perplexed and delighted (that was one of

my 6th grade teachers.) Others were clearly on the thin edge of nervous

breakdowns, or were sadistic and enjoyed using their total, absolute control

over kids in their classroom to keep us in a state of high anxiety and even

terror; there were even more instances of creepy, clearly disturbed teachers

when I was in high-school; one female science teacher wanted to trade favors

for good grades, and more than a couple of males whose inappropriate behaviors

were sexually-driven and focused.

I wish there was more monitoring and observing of teacher performance, to the

point of having cameras in the classrooms recording video and audio 24/7 for

future reference (and prosecution.)

It seems so obvious (to me) that those who have a need to be idolized by

children, to dominate/have total power over children, or a compulsion to use

children for their own sick, sexual gratification will gravitate to jobs that

put them in charge of children, or give them unsupervised access to children.

Should that not be obvious? I just don't get it.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how

early childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part

especially relevant to us here:

> > > >

> > > > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

> > > >

> > > > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set

off a series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the

NICU [neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a

huge impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can

be caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

> > > >

> > > > AND

> > > >

> > > > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once

they are grown?

> > > >

> > > > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable

bowel syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

> > > >

> > > > Eliza

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My Nada Loves all teachers. they are Gods. one who bullied me and humiated me

for pleasure was praised to they sky. one day (when My sister was in her class)

this teacher made all the students of a certain religion (that we happen to be)

stand to be humiliated during a class discussion. this led to an understandable

outcry amouing parents of all sects.

nada made a phone call to the teacher too. I heard it. it was to pledge her

support to the teacher and assure her that she " trusted her judgement. " and

" supported her 100% " . awwww...

in the end the teacher was fired a few years later for persistent horribleness.

when one of my older sisters was in school she had a teacher that touched girls

inappropriately. my sister was very uncomfortable around him. Nada repeatedly

told her she " imagined " it. that teacher was later jailed for molesting some

students.

I guess abusers support each others temptations. Nada tearfully defends (or

makes arbitrary excuses when there is little to defend) each of these and other

terrible teachers too. whenever we try to discuss it.

Meikjn

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how

early childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part

especially relevant to us here:

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set

off a series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the

NICU [neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a

huge impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can

be caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > AND

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once

they are grown?

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable

bowel syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > >

http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

>

> > > > >

>

> > > > > Eliza

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I agree mothers and fathers should have to go thru some sort of testing before

the baby is born to tell if they are mentally sound to be raising a child! I am

horrified by what you went thru! I am just glad you are alright. I don't

understand why women who have BP want to bear children?

My mom wanted children so badly and my dad was dead against having children. I

am the only one out of three pregnancies to survive. All three pregnancies she

got toxemia. I was born at the 6 month mark bc my mom's organs we all shutting

down. The doctors never expected me to live they were just concerned about

saving her life. I weighted only 2 pounds and had to stay at the hospital for

the first 6 months of my life. I use to struggle with understanding why I lived

thru all that to end up in a home where my parents decided they didn't want me

and, abused me instead of giving me love. I now know that I exist on this planet

for some reason other than for my parents. I don't know if I will ever know the

reason I was the baby who lived. Both my parents told expressed to me that they

wish I had never be a part of their lives. It use to make me sad now I just see

two screwed up people and consider the source. I believe they both wanted

something to happen to me so, I would no longer burden them. At the age of 2 my

dad gave a huge amount of alcohol. I remember it I remember trying not to fall

into a giant catus and how I lost 3 days of my life the I couldn't account for.

I don't think they even sought medical help, I think they must have just wait

for me to wake up. There were other times I needed them to care for me and they

left me alone. I almost died of the flu my fever has so high that I was

hullucinating and was unable to care for myself. My both my parents left me on

the couch wrapped in a blanket for 2 weeks, no one took to the hospital or much

less the doctors office. I lost over 40 pounds in those 2 weeks. I was 16 at the

time this happened and had a 105 fever for 2 weeks. Why did we end up with

screwed up parents?

B

Sent from my BlackBerry® device on the Simple Mobile network

Re: childhood stress leading to adult disease

The layers of abuse go deep, don't they. I'm speculating that a similar

physical issue/physical damage was done to me in infancy by my nada.

I think that my nada may have kept me under-hydrated as an infant for two

reasons: first, she herself hated drinking water/liquids to stay properly

hydrated because it meant she would have to urninate frequently. It didn't

register with my nada that being chronically under-hydrated contributed to her

own chronic/lifelong problems with constipation.

In her borderline pd state, my nada did not separate her infants's needs from

her own. If nada wasn't thirsty (nada frequently would mention this, that she

never felt thirsty) then I, her infant, wasn't thirsty either.

The other reason, I'm speculating, is that my nada's extreme distaste with

anything messy or smelly made her loathe and resent having to change her

infant's diapers frequently. If she didn't give me plenty of water/juice,

there were fewer diapers to change and my infant stools wouldn't be as messy.

(My nada also had obsessive-compulsive pd, was hyper-neat, clean and organized,

and very nervous and perfectionistic. Messiness and disorder sent her over the

edge.)

The result: before I was one year old, I'd busted a gut (inguinal hernia) trying

to pass stool and had to have an emergency operation to put my intestine back in

place. The doctors recommended a second (non-emergency) operation to

proactively reinforce the muscles on the other side, about 6 months later.

Nobody on either side of my family, nada's or dad's side, had this " family

weakness " that nada always referred to. I asked. So I think that my needing

two operations before I was two years old (and the separation trauma that must

have engendered) was purely nada-induced, and contributed to nada developing a

fixed delusion that I, her infant, hated and rejected her.

Nada admitted to me that she had " given up on having a normal, loving

mother-daughter relationship " with me by the time I was three years old, because

*I*, her infant, hated her and rejected *her.* Can you say " Projection " ?

So, my personal feeling is that I agree: its not just dangerous to the child's

emotional health, its dangerous and possibly fatal to a child's physical

survival to be raised by an undiagnosed, untreated, unsupervised moderately to

severely mentally ill, Cluster B pd mother. They simply are not mentally

healthy enough to be trusted to raise a child. If the child manages to survive,

the stress-related injuries and conditions are still there to negatively impact

the KO's quality of life into adulthood.

This should be common knowledge that children are in very real danger from

mentally ill mothers, and there should be some sort of mandatory screening

process, mandatory educational classes and mandatory supervision given to

mothers who score moderate to high on personality disorder screening tests. And

fathers too. And yes, I realize that that is politically incorrect and Big

Brother-ish, but I can't think of a less invasive or intrusive way to deal with

this issue. I wish I could.

-Annie

>

> I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it

is called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

>

> the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic urinary

tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would be dead

a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor that

moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out the

prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment before I

had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

>

> the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

>

> she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

>

> many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

>

> I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend who

did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain of

having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to get

it checked out.

>

> as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

> but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever

we get together.

>

> I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

>

> the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

>

> this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

>

> and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

>

> Meikjn

[Guest guest]

((((()))))

Good Lord; your post made me cry too. There are too many members here who post

of incidents and behaviors that are literally criminal acts of child abuse and

neglect. I wish you could have been rescued from your " parents. " Good Lord,

they really did try to kill you, you poor little kid.

I'm wondering if these atrocities are based on the parent or parents having a

great deal of narcissistic pd, or even psychopathy. A narcissistic parent

expects and feels she deserves a perfect child, a superior child, to feed her

own need to be admired and envied. When their child turns out to be less than

perfect, the npd parent resents it. They feel tricked, conned. They had to

spend time and money on you (as my nada did on me) that they feel should have

been spent on themselves, plus they were expected to provide extra care at home

for a weak or injured infant: nursing care, which is above and beyond what they

expected to be providing.

I think my mother was totally unprepared for the reality of having a child (let

alone a sick one) and resented having to sublimate her own wishes, needs and

feelings and financial resources to provide child care.

Being a mother, being a parent, is the exact opposite of narcissism: its about

putting someone else first. So when when her child became ill, that was more

than my nada signed up for (so to speak.) She resented me.

Maybe she realized on some level of her bpd brain that she had resented me and

harmed me, and couldn't take the guilt (a mother who resents and mistreats her

own child isn't perfect) and so she projected her hate and rejection of me...

onto me. Who knows?

But possibly your parents were more over into the psychopathic end of the

spectrum; it just chilled me to the bone to read what your parents did to you.

I so, so wish you could have been rescued. What they did was criminal. No

child deserves to be told they are not wanted, and repeatedly suffer physical

abuse at the hands of her own parents.

I'm glad you survived, and yes, I think you lived for some other reason than to

be your parent's victim. I wish you continued healing and hope you find the joy

and peace in this life you deserve.

-Annie

> >

> > I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it

is called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

> >

> > the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic

urinary tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would

be dead a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor

that moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out

the prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment

before I had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

> >

> > the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

> >

> > she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

> >

> > many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

> >

> > I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend

who did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain

of having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to

get it checked out.

> >

> > as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

> > but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever

we get together.

> >

> > I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

> >

> > the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

> >

> > this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

> >

> > and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

> >

> > Meikjn

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Annie I know that my healing will take me on a life time journey. I

have very happy life! I have the BEST husband a women could ask for. His family

loves me as their own (which makes me cry from happiness to be finally loved).

My mother-in-law and I have a very special bond she calls me her little angle.

Her mom also had BP so, we share in the healing process. I am so grateful to

have found the support of this group. I want to thank everyone for listening and

for all love and support!!

B

Sent from my BlackBerry® device on the Simple Mobile network

Re: childhood stress leading to adult disease

((((()))))

Good Lord; your post made me cry too. There are too many members here who post

of incidents and behaviors that are literally criminal acts of child abuse and

neglect. I wish you could have been rescued from your " parents. " Good Lord,

they really did try to kill you, you poor little kid.

I'm wondering if these atrocities are based on the parent or parents having a

great deal of narcissistic pd, or even psychopathy. A narcissistic parent

expects and feels she deserves a perfect child, a superior child, to feed her

own need to be admired and envied. When their child turns out to be less than

perfect, the npd parent resents it. They feel tricked, conned. They had to

spend time and money on you (as my nada did on me) that they feel should have

been spent on themselves, plus they were expected to provide extra care at home

for a weak or injured infant: nursing care, which is above and beyond what they

expected to be providing.

I think my mother was totally unprepared for the reality of having a child (let

alone a sick one) and resented having to sublimate her own wishes, needs and

feelings and financial resources to provide child care.

Being a mother, being a parent, is the exact opposite of narcissism: its about

putting someone else first. So when when her child became ill, that was more

than my nada signed up for (so to speak.) She resented me.

Maybe she realized on some level of her bpd brain that she had resented me and

harmed me, and couldn't take the guilt (a mother who resents and mistreats her

own child isn't perfect) and so she projected her hate and rejection of me...

onto me. Who knows?

But possibly your parents were more over into the psychopathic end of the

spectrum; it just chilled me to the bone to read what your parents did to you.

I so, so wish you could have been rescued. What they did was criminal. No

child deserves to be told they are not wanted, and repeatedly suffer physical

abuse at the hands of her own parents.

I'm glad you survived, and yes, I think you lived for some other reason than to

be your parent's victim. I wish you continued healing and hope you find the joy

and peace in this life you deserve.

-Annie

> >

> > I have a condition I have always had that is aggravated/caused by stress. it

is called Pelvic floor dysfunction. I have made reference to it multiple times

here. The simple version is that I have pelvic floor muscles that are abnormally

strong. they also don't interact right in bodily functions. I have had 3 kids

and my muscles are stronger than normal for women before they give birth.

> >

> > the symptoms are things like difficulty voiding which leads to chronic

urinary tract infections and if left untreated back up into the kidneys. I would

be dead a few times over without anti-biotics. I had an Uncle who was a doctor

that moved to town, and saved me a lot of pain because he was able to dole out

the prescriptions without an office visit this led to me getting treatment

before I had to be sufficiently sick to convince nada to take me to the doctor.

> >

> > the condition also lead to me having accidents. you can probably guess the

backlash of such a thing with a nada around...

> >

> > she would (still does. she never noticed I grew up) tell me to go to the

bathroom every time we left the house. then when I had accidents she would

berate me with " I told you to go why are you so defiant? " and anything else that

implied that I just wanted attention. she was supported in this by couple of

family doctors that when confronted with my weird symptoms rather than admitting

they were ignorant told her that I " just needed to go to the bathroom on a

schedule " and that I needed psychiatric care because this was a sick form of

attention seeking. which would never happen because my mom proudly states that

we have no mental illness in *our* family to anyone who will listen.

> >

> > many in the family insist that it is just a " habit " she has and think I am

" overreacting " whenever I get annoyed by it

> >

> > I did not get a diagnosis until after I had my second baby. I had a friend

who did a residency with a specialist in this field. she overheard me complain

of having another infection (I had 6 that year) and cornered me ant told me to

get it checked out.

> >

> > as it turnes out the problem is easy to diagnose, and is much more treatable

when caught early. mine has advanced, and I may have permanant kidney damage. I

do have treatment now, so accidents and infections are rare,

> > but NADA unable to admit she was wrong, still shames me in advance whenever

we get together.

> >

> > I asked her specifically (when not upset) this summer in textbook fashion to

stop telling me to go to the bathroom.

> >

> > the next time we got together she said as we stopped at a bathroom to all go

before going to an event " here we are at the bathroom, and everyone is going,

everyone but you. " if she can expend energy to re-phrase the question she can

use it to STOP! this was brought on because I was not fighting to be first in

line I guess. I was intending to go, and did as a matter of fact. but I was

tempted not to, to avoid her little smile of victory when I went.

> >

> > this is a stress related problem. and I hate it, and I hate her role in

creating, denying, and shaming me for it.

> >

> > and I hate that any progress I make in fixing it can't be discussed with her

because my getting well makes her " wrong " so she hates that I am getting better.

> >

> > Meikjn

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. I had done some research while in school on IBS &

found a few studues that showed that abuse survivors are 50% as likely

to suffer from IBS as the general population. That's pretty sad.

Unfortunately, I add to that statistic. Stupid IBS > I also have

fibro, and endometriosis. Oddly, those 3 issues seem to feed one

another. (women with endo have higher chance to have IBS AND Fibro,

and women with fibro have higher incidence of IBS... not matter how

you cut it, I got screwed! " The great triad of BLEH " as I like to

call it lol.)

But it does make sense when you're talking about the nervous system &

development, at least in my mind. I don't have as much education as

I'd like, but I do think something went wrong with my autonomic

nervous system.

Anyway, sorry I'm just rambling now. TY for the post, it's very interesting!

Mia

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:52 PM, eliza92@...

wrote:

>

>

>

> An interesting and rather depressing article about research into how early

childhood and fetal stress have long-term effects. I found this part especially

relevant to us here:

>

> " What kinds of traumas affect young children once they are born?

>

> The research on this is prolific. A traumatic birth can certainly set off a

series of problems: being born too soon, prematurity, and a stint in the NICU

[neonatal intensive care unit]. Maternal depression is very profound, has a huge

impact: as profound an impact as child abuse on that little brain. It can be

caused by ongoing maternal neglect or family neglect. The attachment process

early in life is really the hub, the core of that baby learning how to

self-regulate its own nervous system. When it's interrupted over and over again,

as it is for infants who are left in various forms of childcare with neighbors,

friends, catch as catch can, that's a huge problem. So those are just a few

examples from early in our lives that can set that little nervous system on

high. One of them alone does not do this, and it's terribly important that

people realize that even when the mother is stressed, if things settle down, and

the baby goes home with mom who moves into a more relaxed state and develops a

strong stable environment for the baby and herself, that's fine. "

>

> AND

>

> " So what kinds of disease does this early trauma cause in people once they are

grown?

>

> Some of the really obvious ones are fibromyalgia and IBS, irritable bowel

syndrome. Gut problems, chronic back pain, many forms of arthritis,

cardiovascular issues, are probably the ones that occur to me first. Often times

in chronic pain. Many of the subtler problems like fibromyalgia and many forms

of chronic pain are diseases that doctors are flummoxed by. They don't

understand where the source of the problem is. It doesn't appear to be genetic.

The bridge to really understanding that is the adverse-childhood-experience

study, the Felitti and Anda study that I mentioned in " Scared Sick, " that

mentioned the histories of 58,000 Kaiser Permanente patients and correlated

their middle-age health issues with the number of what they called adverse

childhood experiences. It asked people specific questions like, " Was anyone in

your family incarcerated in this period of time in your life? " It asks about

child abuse, it asks about neglect, it asks about addiction, it asks about very

specific issues early in life. And the correlations between the number of early

childhood experiences and certain diseases is shocking. Cardiovascular being the

glowing one, but some forms of cancer, some forms of arthritis, and as I say,

gut and intestinal problems. "

>

> http://life.salon.com/2012/01/02/how_stress_is_really_hurting_our_kids/

>

> Eliza

>

>

[Guest guest]

((((Mia)))) no one should have to endure the great triad of BLEH. It's

interesting all those conditions are connected - maybe one day the docs will

finally be able to treat/cure them with one solution? I don't know about you

but it makes me especially furious (which probably doesn't help my own

conditions) when I think that this could be additionally legacy of simply being

born to two crazy people. The only positive side that I have to reach a bit for

is that being more fragile physically has kept me away from certain bad

decisions in my life. Like I never got involved with drugs or excess drinking

because I knew my body couldn't take it...excessive food yes, but these days my

body says no to that too.

stay strong!

Eliza

>

> Very interesting. I had done some research while in school on IBS &

> found a few studues that showed that abuse survivors are 50% as likely

> to suffer from IBS as the general population. That's pretty sad.

> Unfortunately, I add to that statistic. Stupid IBS > I also have

> fibro, and endometriosis. Oddly, those 3 issues seem to feed one

> another. (women with endo have higher chance to have IBS AND Fibro,

> and women with fibro have higher incidence of IBS... not matter how

> you cut it, I got screwed! " The great triad of BLEH " as I like to

> call it lol.)

>

> But it does make sense when you're talking about the nervous system &

> development, at least in my mind. I don't have as much education as

> I'd like, but I do think something went wrong with my autonomic

> nervous system.

>

> Anyway, sorry I'm just rambling now. TY for the post, it's very interesting!

>

> Mia