Feling angry, then guilty.

[Guest guest]

I have had only limited email contact with NADA since getting married in May.

She behaved so badly at my wedding, that in weeks to follow when she would text

all kinds of nice things " How are the newly weds? " and such, and they made me so

angry. I couldnt respond to them how great things were because I was so pissed

off at her.

I finally sent an email saying I cant pretend like things are ok, because they

are not, and I would like an apology for her behavior if I was to continue in

the relationship. I never got a response. My sister, also at her wits end, also

sent an email establishing boundaries, and that abusive behavior would not be

tolerated in front of her baby, and things must change if the relationship was

to continue. No response to her either. 2 months later we get a call from her

husband that NADA has had a " complete mental breakdown " and spent a week in a

mental health hospital, and that it was my and my sister's fault, for writing

the emails that we did because it " devestated her " and you should not try and

contact her until further notice as she needs " time to heal " .

5 months later, NADA now resuming contact thru text, email, sent Christmas box,

but Im still angry, and I dont know, when am I not going to be angry when I see

an email or text from her? When will I get over her outrageous behavior and her

refusal to admit ANY of it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship, now

that she is reaching out again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel

that way, because she was a good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we

were close until she pretty much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

[Guest guest]

First of all, it is not your fault or your sister's that your nada had a mental

meltdown and needed some in-patient psychiatric treatment. You did not cause

her to be mentally ill, and you can't cure her.

If your nada is anything like my nada was, she had this uncanny ability to

completely and utterly dominate and control her family of origin, her husband,

and us kids (my younger Sister and me.)

My theory is that if a mother (in particular, a mother) with bpd and probably

npd as a co-morbidity has brainwashed/coerced her spouse and her children to

obey, defer and cater to her from infancy (or from the first date) then when one

of these subjugated individuals finally does make a stand and demand to be

treated with common human courtesy and mutual respect, it shakes the very

foundation of npd/bpd mom's reality. She will then go to amazing lengths to get

her power back; because (in my opinion) the bottom line is that this is really a

power struggle.

If *you* want to maintain contact with your nada instead of going No Contact, my

suggestion is that instead of trying to get her to admit and apologize for all

the horrible things she's done to you in the past (its a lost cause; she won't

go there) to instead focus on staying in the moment and stopping her

(maintaining your boundaries) when she becomes abusive to you *now.*

Your only real power is to decide what you will and will not tolerate, and give

consequences for boundary violation. For example, *the instant* that your nada

begins saying something abusive to you, something that you choose not to

tolerate any more, just interrupt her or talk over her and say something like:

" Mom, I'm not going to listen to you when you (call me names, scream at me, say

ugly, untrue things about my husband, make bizarre, false accusations about me,

etc.) I can't talk to you when you are upset. We can talk later when you are

feeling calmer. I'm hanging up now; (or I'm leaving now;) 'bye. "

Or you could cut it even shorter: " I've got to go now mom; 'bye. "

Eventually it will register with your nada that saying abusive things to you,

behaving in abusive ways, or bringing up certain topics has unpleasant

consequences: she gets much less time with you, abruptly. So you're not trying

to reason with her, or explain anything to her, or attempting to get her to buy

in to your decision and agree to it, you are simply acting on your boundary and

enforcing it. You can also give guidelines, such as " That topic is not on the

table for discussion, mom. Is there something else you wanted to discuss with

me? No? Then, I have a lot of things I need to take care of, I'll talk to you

later, 'bye. "

There are some good books out there about setting boundaries and enforcing them,

but basically its about politely but assertively not being a doormat any longer,

and cutting someone off when they are clearly launching into an abusive or

manipulative tirade at you. And no, its not easy, but its necessary if you want

to claim your adult power.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> I have had only limited email contact with NADA since getting married in May.

She behaved so badly at my wedding, that in weeks to follow when she would text

all kinds of nice things " How are the newly weds? " and such, and they made me so

angry. I couldnt respond to them how great things were because I was so pissed

off at her.

>

> I finally sent an email saying I cant pretend like things are ok, because they

are not, and I would like an apology for her behavior if I was to continue in

the relationship. I never got a response. My sister, also at her wits end, also

sent an email establishing boundaries, and that abusive behavior would not be

tolerated in front of her baby, and things must change if the relationship was

to continue. No response to her either. 2 months later we get a call from her

husband that NADA has had a " complete mental breakdown " and spent a week in a

mental health hospital, and that it was my and my sister's fault, for writing

the emails that we did because it " devestated her " and you should not try and

contact her until further notice as she needs " time to heal " .

>

> 5 months later, NADA now resuming contact thru text, email, sent Christmas

box, but Im still angry, and I dont know, when am I not going to be angry when I

see an email or text from her? When will I get over her outrageous behavior and

her refusal to admit ANY of it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship,

now that she is reaching out again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel

that way, because she was a good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we

were close until she pretty much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

>

[Guest guest]

I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from!!!! I am too trying to figure

out the same things that you are. I got married in July and since we got

engaged, leading up to the wedding and now after, my mother has done nothing but

lay guilt trips on me, rage at me, everything someone with BPD does. I agree a

lot with what Annie wrote, it was very well put.

The other things that I have learned through therapy and reading (Stop walking

on eggshells) is when she does contact you, to stay focused on the main point

she is trying to get across (which is difficult to decipher because it is

normally in a raging and has multiple guilt trips in there as well). For

example, my mother just recently texted me, yelling at me through a text, saying

how everyone abuses her, no one appreciates her, she gave up her life for her

kids, etc. The other thing in there was about getting the cd's to make pictures

from my wedding and saying how unimportant she was because she was the " last "

one to get pictures (we had also gotten an 8x10 for everyone in our family, she

had picked which one she wanted but I couldn't remember which one she had

wanted, so that was something else she freaked out about).

Basically her text to me was abusive, mean, yelling, pretty much how all her

communication is with me; therefore, I have had to accept that I will always

have to be the " adult " in our relationship and to try (being the operative word)

and not let her ways get to me. In addition, when I communicate with her, I

have to stick to the point she is trying to get across (which is difficult

sometimes to figure out). In the example above my response back to her was " Yes

you can borrow the cd's and once you let me know which picture you want, I will

get it ordered for you. " She raged back at me, so I had to repeat what I had

previously said; it's like talking to a child really, repeat, repeat, repeat and

don't leave anything open for further argument.

So, my advice to you is this, disassociate yourself from her behavior, don't

take it personally (much easier said than done I know), and when talking to her,

try to stick to the facts and don't let her craziness take over your life!!!

Chances are you are never going to completely get over your own anger for how

she is but you can learn to deal with it, expect it will happen and then let it

go. Her craziness doesn't have to be yours. You also need to accept that she

will NEVER apologize for her behavior, nor may she ever recognize it (sadly).

Once I began to realize that she would never apologize or recognize any of her

behavior and accepted that's just how it would be, I have come to a place where

it doesn't make me as sad. The contact you have with her should be positive,

unfortunately it may never be (just like mine), so what you will need to do is

maintain calmness when communicating with her, by you becoming

angry/outraged/upset when she emails or texts you, you are letting her control

you and your emotions; don't let her have that kind of control over you! When I

started to see that that's what my own mother was doing to me, I put a stop to

it. I flat out refused to let her have control over my emotions as an adult

(she already took enough from me as a kid), it's not fair to me and certainly

not to my new husband.

I hope this is helpful.

-A

> >

> > I have had only limited email contact with NADA since getting married in

May. She behaved so badly at my wedding, that in weeks to follow when she would

text all kinds of nice things " How are the newly weds? " and such, and they made

me so angry. I couldnt respond to them how great things were because I was so

pissed off at her.

> >

> > I finally sent an email saying I cant pretend like things are ok, because

they are not, and I would like an apology for her behavior if I was to continue

in the relationship. I never got a response. My sister, also at her wits end,

also sent an email establishing boundaries, and that abusive behavior would not

be tolerated in front of her baby, and things must change if the relationship

was to continue. No response to her either. 2 months later we get a call from

her husband that NADA has had a " complete mental breakdown " and spent a week in

a mental health hospital, and that it was my and my sister's fault, for writing

the emails that we did because it " devestated her " and you should not try and

contact her until further notice as she needs " time to heal " .

> >

> > 5 months later, NADA now resuming contact thru text, email, sent Christmas

box, but Im still angry, and I dont know, when am I not going to be angry when I

see an email or text from her? When will I get over her outrageous behavior and

her refusal to admit ANY of it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship,

now that she is reaching out again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel

that way, because she was a good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we

were close until she pretty much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree with Annie and want to also reinforce that it is

NOT you or your sister's fault that she had a mental meltdown. Not

one little bit. Nope. Not your fault.

But I do understand how this can cause guilt. As can feeling angry.

You see, so much of our lives with a BPD parent are spent in the FOG

(Fear, Obligation, Guilt). They get so good at fogging us, we tend to

fog ourselves. I think it's that fear of going up against the " ruler "

(mother or father with BPD); because there were horrible consequences

if we did break the rules. I know I personally have this issue still

to this day because breaking a rule (even if it's not a law, or if

it's a rule that makes no sense) always makes me feel awful. I feel

guilt, anger at myself, the whole nine yards.

I think so many of us KOs feel guilty for the world. And we shouldn't

have to. You have a right to maintain your boundaries and to lay them

out to ANYONE who you feel is hurting you, including your mother.

Hang in there and again, I think Annie gave you good advice!

Mia

>

>

>

> First of all, it is not your fault or your sister's that your nada had a

mental meltdown and needed some in-patient psychiatric treatment. You did not

cause her to be mentally ill, and you can't cure her.

>

> If your nada is anything like my nada was, she had this uncanny ability to

completely and utterly dominate and control her family of origin, her husband,

and us kids (my younger Sister and me.)

>

> My theory is that if a mother (in particular, a mother) with bpd and probably

npd as a co-morbidity has brainwashed/coerced her spouse and her children to

obey, defer and cater to her from infancy (or from the first date) then when one

of these subjugated individuals finally does make a stand and demand to be

treated with common human courtesy and mutual respect, it shakes the very

foundation of npd/bpd mom's reality. She will then go to amazing lengths to get

her power back; because (in my opinion) the bottom line is that this is really a

power struggle.

>

> If *you* want to maintain contact with your nada instead of going No Contact,

my suggestion is that instead of trying to get her to admit and apologize for

all the horrible things she's done to you in the past (its a lost cause; she

won't go there) to instead focus on staying in the moment and stopping her

(maintaining your boundaries) when she becomes abusive to you *now.*

>

> Your only real power is to decide what you will and will not tolerate, and

give consequences for boundary violation. For example, *the instant* that your

nada begins saying something abusive to you, something that you choose not to

tolerate any more, just interrupt her or talk over her and say something like:

" Mom, I'm not going to listen to you when you (call me names, scream at me, say

ugly, untrue things about my husband, make bizarre, false accusations about me,

etc.) I can't talk to you when you are upset. We can talk later when you are

feeling calmer. I'm hanging up now; (or I'm leaving now;) 'bye. "

>

> Or you could cut it even shorter: " I've got to go now mom; 'bye. "

>

> Eventually it will register with your nada that saying abusive things to you,

behaving in abusive ways, or bringing up certain topics has unpleasant

consequences: she gets much less time with you, abruptly. So you're not trying

to reason with her, or explain anything to her, or attempting to get her to buy

in to your decision and agree to it, you are simply acting on your boundary and

enforcing it. You can also give guidelines, such as " That topic is not on the

table for discussion, mom. Is there something else you wanted to discuss with

me? No? Then, I have a lot of things I need to take care of, I'll talk to you

later, 'bye. "

>

> There are some good books out there about setting boundaries and enforcing

them, but basically its about politely but assertively not being a doormat any

longer, and cutting someone off when they are clearly launching into an abusive

or manipulative tirade at you. And no, its not easy, but its necessary if you

want to claim your adult power.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I have had only limited email contact with NADA since getting married in

May. She behaved so badly at my wedding, that in weeks to follow when she would

text all kinds of nice things " How are the newly weds? " and such, and they made

me so angry. I couldnt respond to them how great things were because I was so

pissed off at her.

> >

> > I finally sent an email saying I cant pretend like things are ok, because

they are not, and I would like an apology for her behavior if I was to continue

in the relationship. I never got a response. My sister, also at her wits end,

also sent an email establishing boundaries, and that abusive behavior would not

be tolerated in front of her baby, and things must change if the relationship

was to continue. No response to her either. 2 months later we get a call from

her husband that NADA has had a " complete mental breakdown " and spent a week in

a mental health hospital, and that it was my and my sister's fault, for writing

the emails that we did because it " devestated her " and you should not try and

contact her until further notice as she needs " time to heal " .

> >

> > 5 months later, NADA now resuming contact thru text, email, sent Christmas

box, but Im still angry, and I dont know, when am I not going to be angry when I

see an email or text from her? When will I get over her outrageous behavior and

her refusal to admit ANY of it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship,

now that she is reaching out again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel

that way, because she was a good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we

were close until she pretty much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>When will I get over her outrageous behavior and her refusal to admit ANY of

it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship, now that she is reaching out

again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel that way, because she was a

good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we were close until she pretty

much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

>

I seriously doubt she went crazy overnight. Sometimes we mistake enmeshment for

closeness. That might be what you are experiencing.

Why is it awful that you don't want to pretend nothing is wrong? Your feelings

are your feelings--they're not right or wrong, they just are. There is nothing

wrong with how you feel.

Why do you feel obligated to put your own feelings aside, to invalidate

yourself, just because your mother has decided she needs you?

Your boundary was reasonable and mature. It is not your fault she ended up in

hospital. She was already unstable before you started standing up for yourself.

In fact, it's good that she went there because they are the only ones qualified

to help her learn to stabilize her own emotions.

Her choices are not your fault. You have a right to ask for an apology. You have

a right to protect yourself with boundaries, to refuse to pretend everything's

rosy when it isn't.

I can't remember--do you have a T?

Sveta

[Guest guest]

I've talked with my therapist about the feelings of anger & guilt

often being intermeshed within me. I like how she explained it to me,

and will try to explain what she told me here for you.

To this day, I still struggle somewhat with " going against authority " .

When hubby & I had to call CPS in regards to his ex wife & our

feelings of neglect of his kids, I felt horrible afterwards. Angry,

guilty, fearful. I shook from head to toe & was ice cold. It was this

example that brought on the discussion of guilt & anger with my

therapist.

She said it makes sense because as a kid, I was never allowed to

express anger. And doing something, anything, that went against the

authority of my nada would bring on not only guilt, but fear and anger

at myself.

In this case, I was going against the " authority " of my husband's

ex-wife, who is also likely BPD. (Got away from one, ran smack dab

into another *rolls eyes*). So, her explanation makes sense to me. I

know what we did was the right thing to do, but it did go against that

" authority " . And it has also served to make life much more difficult.

But it was still the right thing to do.

Anyway. Maybe this applies to you as well, maybe not. Just something

I found interesting and that seemed to make good sense to me.

Mia

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >When will I get over her outrageous behavior and her refusal to admit ANY of

it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship, now that she is reaching out

again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel that way, because she was a

good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we were close until she pretty

much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

> >

>

> I seriously doubt she went crazy overnight. Sometimes we mistake enmeshment

for closeness. That might be what you are experiencing.

>

> Why is it awful that you don't want to pretend nothing is wrong? Your feelings

are your feelings--they're not right or wrong, they just are. There is nothing

wrong with how you feel.

>

> Why do you feel obligated to put your own feelings aside, to invalidate

yourself, just because your mother has decided she needs you?

>

> Your boundary was reasonable and mature. It is not your fault she ended up in

hospital. She was already unstable before you started standing up for yourself.

In fact, it's good that she went there because they are the only ones qualified

to help her learn to stabilize her own emotions.

>

> Her choices are not your fault. You have a right to ask for an apology. You

have a right to protect yourself with boundaries, to refuse to pretend

everything's rosy when it isn't.

>

> I can't remember--do you have a T?

>

> Sveta

>

>

[Guest guest]

I go numb too. whenever I am together with the FOO I find it really hard to even

meet the needs of my kids. it makes me wonder if that is why nada unknowingly

neglected us. was she numb?

another danger I have when numb is that sometimes I get triggered and the

emotional reactions are hard to control because I am not in control enough to

begin with to think things out. also the feeling feel bigger when they cut

through an emotionless state. which re-enforces my bad image in the FOO. " why is

she crying it was just a joke " etc.

I am planning to fight the numb even if it hurts. when numb I take all the crap.

to stop being hurt I need to overcome this. It is easy to stay away from it

outside the FOO, but almost instant and involuntary around them for me.

Meikjn

> > > >

> > > >When will I get over her outrageous behavior and her refusal to admit ANY

of it? How do I move on, forward in our relationship, now that she is reaching

out again, and I dont even want to? It is awful to feel that way, because she

was a good mother the first 25 years of my life, and we were close until she

pretty much went crazy over night 4 years ago.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I seriously doubt she went crazy overnight. Sometimes we mistake

enmeshment for closeness. That might be what you are experiencing.

> > >

> > > Why is it awful that you don't want to pretend nothing is wrong? Your

feelings are your feelings--they're not right or wrong, they just are. There is

nothing wrong with how you feel.

> > >

> > > Why do you feel obligated to put your own feelings aside, to invalidate

yourself, just because your mother has decided she needs you?

> > >

> > > Your boundary was reasonable and mature. It is not your fault she ended up

in hospital. She was already unstable before you started standing up for

yourself. In fact, it's good that she went there because they are the only ones

qualified to help her learn to stabilize her own emotions.

> > >

> > > Her choices are not your fault. You have a right to ask for an apology.

You have a right to protect yourself with boundaries, to refuse to pretend

everything's rosy when it isn't.

> > >

> > > I can't remember--do you have a T?

> > >

> > > Sveta

> > >

> > >

> >

>