What is worse? ascorbyl palmitate or leucine in the zinc capsules

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to find zinc PICOLINATE product with safe ingredients as thorne one

has aspartic acid. Can anyone comment on the ingredients on the kirkman zinc

picolinate which are as follows:

Dicalcium phosphate

Zinc picolinate

Plant cellulose

l-leucine

I know a while ago Alberta posted about leucine being a problem for a few kids,

I don't completely understand the reason though. I looked at pure encaps also

but that contains ascorbyl palmitate.

So the question is that which one is worse? Ascorbyl palmitate or leucine? And

also if anyone can share their experience with zinc picolinate by either of the

brands, I would really appreciate it.

is

[Guest guest]

That was just my daughter having a leucine metabolism issue.  Not all kids have problems with leucine.  We had to avoid leucine because Maia stopped being able to metabolize it and she would get reactions that looked like very severe depression (can't stop crying, the very slightest things would set her off).  Most people don't have problems with it. 

 

Hi everyone,

I am trying to find zinc PICOLINATE product with safe ingredients as thorne one has aspartic acid. Can anyone comment on the ingredients on the kirkman zinc picolinate which are as follows:

Dicalcium phosphate

Zinc picolinate

Plant cellulose

l-leucine

I know a while ago Alberta posted about leucine being a problem for a few kids, I don't completely understand the reason though. I looked at pure encaps also but that contains ascorbyl palmitate.

So the question is that which one is worse? Ascorbyl palmitate or leucine? And also if anyone can share their experience with zinc picolinate by either of the brands, I would really appreciate it.

is

[Guest guest]

Hi alexis,Unfortunaelty, I don't know which is worse. I am also tring to find a new zinc wihout success. We tried the below kirkman and the brainchild's zinc but they didn't seem to do well on them. I am going to try the new beginnings liquid ionic zinc next. Will let you know how it goes. Hang in there!!hugs, megan-- Sent from my Palm Pre

Hi everyone,

I am trying to find zinc PICOLINATE product with safe ingredients as thorne one has aspartic acid. Can anyone comment on the ingredients on the kirkman zinc picolinate which are as follows:

Dicalcium phosphate

Zinc picolinate

Plant cellulose

l-leucine

I know a while ago Alberta posted about leucine being a problem for a few kids, I don't completely understand the reason though. I looked at pure encaps also but that contains ascorbyl palmitate.

So the question is that which one is worse? Ascorbyl palmitate or leucine? And also if anyone can share their experience with zinc picolinate by either of the brands, I would really appreciate it.

is

[Guest guest]

I get zinc piccolinate compounded for us at lee silsby pharmacy. The insurance picks it up and I only pay $12 for a 30 day supply and its sent to my house by ups.CassieSent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: mb12valtrex Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 04:04:11 -0000To: <mb12valtrex >ReplyTo: mb12valtrex Subject: What is worse? ascorbyl palmitate or leucine in the zinc capsules Hi everyone, I am trying to find zinc PICOLINATE product with safe ingredients as thorne one has aspartic acid. Can anyone comment on the ingredients on the kirkman zinc picolinate which are as follows:Dicalcium phosphateZinc picolinatePlant cellulosel-leucineI know a while ago Alberta posted about leucine being a problem for a few kids, I don't completely understand the reason though. I looked at pure encaps also but that contains ascorbyl palmitate. So the question is that which one is worse? Ascorbyl palmitate or leucine? And also if anyone can share their experience with zinc picolinate by either of the brands, I would really appreciate it.is

[Guest guest]

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>

> Hi everyone,

> I am trying to find zinc PICOLINATE product with safe ingredients as thorne

one has aspartic acid. Can anyone comment on the ingredients on the kirkman zinc

picolinate which are as follows:

> Dicalcium phosphate

> Zinc picolinate

> Plant cellulose

> l-leucine

>

> I know a while ago Alberta posted about leucine being a problem for a few

kids, I don't completely understand the reason though. I looked at pure encaps

also but that contains ascorbyl palmitate.

>

> So the question is that which one is worse? Ascorbyl palmitate or leucine? And

also if anyone can share their experience with zinc picolinate by either of the

brands, I would really appreciate it.

>

> is

>

[Guest guest]

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~~ Make a biomed book ~~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.

These are two different things.

Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>  

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>  

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

 

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I guess, I didn't articulate it properly.The question was why Ascorbyl palmitate is not good and the reply was, its high in oxalates. so I wonder, hows that? Vit A palmitate was an example.

 

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.

These are two different things.

Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>  

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>  

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

 

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Just because palmitic acid is a fatty acid doesn't exclude it from what it's attached to. It's still attached to vitamin c, which is very high oxalate. Ascorbyl is the vitamin C, palmitate carries it across the BBB. It's what makes things highly absorbable. You can palmitate any vitamin (and pretty much anything, for that matter.) Essentially, it's not the palmitate that's the problem.It's all chemistry and just because it's a fatty acid, it doesn't prevent it from doing dangerous things we don't expect from a fatty acid. It's about the combination. Napalm is made by adding palmitic acid to napthenic acid. Alone, it's fine. mixed with something else and you never know what's going to happen.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~~ Make a biomed book ~~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

I guess, I didn't articulate it properly.The question was why Ascorbyl palmitate is not good and the reply was, its high in oxalates. so I wonder, hows that? Vit A palmitate was an example.

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.These are two different things.Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

<PastedGraphic-3.tiff>

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Now things are clear.You are more concerned about Vitamin C crossing BBB? not the palmityl moiety. The reply sounded like Palmityl is the one thats causing oxalate problem and in my 3years of biochemistry, I never learned that !!

Thanks for clearing it up.

Just because palmitic acid is a fatty acid doesn't exclude it from what it's attached to. It's still attached to vitamin c, which is very high oxalate. Ascorbyl is the vitamin C, palmitate carries it across the BBB.  It's what makes things highly absorbable. You can palmitate any vitamin (and pretty much anything, for that matter.) Essentially, it's not the palmitate that's the problem.

It's all chemistry and just because it's a fatty acid, it doesn't prevent it from doing dangerous things we don't expect from a fatty acid. It's about the combination. Napalm is made by adding palmitic acid to napthenic acid. Alone, it's fine. mixed with something else and you never know what's going to happen.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

I guess, I didn't articulate it properly.The question was why Ascorbyl palmitate is not good and the reply was, its high in oxalates. so I wonder, hows that? Vit A palmitate was an example.

 

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.

These are two different things.Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>  

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>  

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

 

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

<PastedGraphic-3.tiff>

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

No, crossing the BBB isn't the problem. You take ascorbic palmitate specifically for that. But but c is high oxalate so if you are on low ox, it's not appropriate.

Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

 

Now things are clear.You are more concerned about Vitamin C crossing BBB? not the palmityl moiety. The reply sounded like Palmityl is the one thats causing oxalate problem and in my 3years of biochemistry, I never learned that !!

Thanks for clearing it up.

Just because palmitic acid is a fatty acid doesn't exclude it from what it's attached to. It's still attached to vitamin c, which is very high oxalate. Ascorbyl is the vitamin C, palmitate carries it across the BBB.  It's what makes things highly absorbable. You can palmitate any vitamin (and pretty much anything, for that matter.) Essentially, it's not the palmitate that's the problem.

It's all chemistry and just because it's a fatty acid, it doesn't prevent it from doing dangerous things we don't expect from a fatty acid. It's about the combination. Napalm is made by adding palmitic acid to napthenic acid. Alone, it's fine. mixed with something else and you never know what's going to happen.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

I guess, I didn't articulate it properly.The question was why Ascorbyl palmitate is not good and the reply was, its high in oxalates. so I wonder, hows that? Vit A palmitate was an example.

 

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.

These are two different things.Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>  

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>  

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

 

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

<PastedGraphic-3.tiff>

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

 

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

BBB?? Brain barrier ?? Following uo discussion learning lots but got lost???? What is BBBSent from my iPod

No, crossing the BBB isn't the problem. You take ascorbic palmitate specifically for that. But but c is high oxalate so if you are on low ox, it's not appropriate.

Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

Now things are clear.You are more concerned about Vitamin C crossing BBB? not the palmityl moiety. The reply sounded like Palmityl is the one thats causing oxalate problem and in my 3years of biochemistry, I never learned that !!

Thanks for clearing it up.

Just because palmitic acid is a fatty acid doesn't exclude it from what it's attached to. It's still attached to vitamin c, which is very high oxalate. Ascorbyl is the vitamin C, palmitate carries it across the BBB. It's what makes things highly absorbable. You can palmitate any vitamin (and pretty much anything, for that matter.) Essentially, it's not the palmitate that's the problem.

It's all chemistry and just because it's a fatty acid, it doesn't prevent it from doing dangerous things we don't expect from a fatty acid. It's about the combination. Napalm is made by adding palmitic acid to napthenic acid. Alone, it's fine. mixed with something else and you never know what's going to happen.

<PastedGraphic-3.tiff>

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

I guess, I didn't articulate it properly.The question was why Ascorbyl palmitate is not good and the reply was, its high in oxalates. so I wonder, hows that? Vit A palmitate was an example.

No, ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble vitamin c. Vitamin a palmitate is typically retinol which is what you are thinking of and that you have to be very careful of because it can cause toxicity.

These are two different things.Sent from my Evo. These are not the typos you are looking for...

>

>

>

> Sorry, I need a little more explanation.

>

> There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

>

> So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.

>

> Noel

>

>

>

>>

>> It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

>>

>>

>> ~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

>> ~ Make a biomed book ~

>>

>> ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

>> ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

>>

>>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

>>

>>

>

>

Sorry, I need a little more explanation.There is no connection between Palmitate and Oxalate. Palmitic acid is a a saturated fatty acid (Vit A is palmitate form most of the time) and Oxalic acid is an organic acid. AFAIK, Palmitic acid does not degrade into oxalic acid or its salt in the body. As a matter of fact, palmitates, being fatty in nature are very important to localize many of the compounds in the body, that cross the fatty cell membranes.

So I am not too sure why you think Ascorbyl Palmitate is not good for low-ox diet.Noel

It isn't bad for all kids. It's high oxalate. If you're on a low-ox diet, it wouldn't be appropriate.

<PastedGraphic-3.tiff>

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~

~ Make a biomed book ~

~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~

~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

Can you explain why ascorbyl palmitate is not a good supplement? Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Anyone else, feel free to jump in.  From what I understand, Vit C itself isn't high oxalate.  It's more an issue of it converting to oxalate.  A lot of people with oxalate problems also have abnormally low Vit C on their OAT.  Maia's first OAT showed that her Vit C was almost non-existent.  Yet, supplementing Vit C caused it to raise her oxalates because she couldn't use all (or any) of it that was taken in and it just converted to oxalate. 

From what I understand about it, it's more of a metabolic problem...cells cannot properly metabolize Vit C and any Vit C that the body deems as " excess " gets converted to oxalate.  So, if there's a Vit C metabolism problem, a greater percentage of Vit C intake converts to oxalate because the threshold of what the body thinks is " too much " is lowered when there's metabolic problem associated with Vit C?  Hypothetically, say the average person can process 250 mg of Vit C at a time, then giving them 1000 mg would cause the excess to be converted to oxalate....this is in an average and healthy person.  But if the person doesn't have the metabolic capacity of the average person, they might only have the resources to metabolize 25 mg at a time, and then the rest would convert to oxalate...so even if you gave a person with that type of metabolic problem 250 mg of Vit C (which the average person might not have problems with), the lack of resources to process all that Vit C would mean that 175 mg of Vit C isn't being used and for some reason they can't excrete it, and it hangs around in the system and then converts to oxalate.  And then, if you have oxidative stress, guess where all that endogenously made oxalate (it would be made in the cytosol of the cell) is going...yep, right into the mitochondrion.  Vicious, ugly cycle.  That's why Vit C can really suck for some people until you get the problem fixed and the person can metabolize Vit C properly.

Funny enough, our Vit C levels went up marginally when we started supplementing P5P (this was before we did high dose B6 and added proper mito support).  But even after doing high dose B6 for a few months, we still couldn't tolerate much Vit C supplementation (not enough for AC chelation).  When I tried to ramp it up, we hit a wall when we hit about 150 to 200 mg/day (divided into 3 doses throughout the day) and it took about 2 months to reverse the damage from that.  You could see her mito and digestive problems starting to cascade again.  Not pretty.  I'd love to run another OAT for Maia to gauge this hypothesis, but no $$$ right now.  But it almost looks like this is what's happening with her.

[Guest guest]

BBB = Blood Brain Barrier, which is a lipophilic barrier. If you want something to cross this barrier, it is hooked up to a specific fat that gets bound to the fats in this barrier. Any fat won't work.

Alberta, you are quite right, there are some studies supporting this notion.http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w99/kidneystones.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12631089 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472830/ NoelOn Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Alberta wrote:

 

Anyone else, feel free to jump in.  From what I understand, Vit C itself isn't high oxalate.  It's more an issue of it converting to oxalate.  A lot of people with oxalate problems also have abnormally low Vit C on their OAT.  Maia's first OAT showed that her Vit C was almost non-existent.  Yet, supplementing Vit C caused it to raise her oxalates because she couldn't use all (or any) of it that was taken in and it just converted to oxalate. 

From what I understand about it, it's more of a metabolic problem...cells cannot properly metabolize Vit C and any Vit C that the body deems as " excess " gets converted to oxalate.  So, if there's a Vit C metabolism problem, a greater percentage of Vit C intake converts to oxalate because the threshold of what the body thinks is " too much " is lowered when there's metabolic problem associated with Vit C?  Hypothetically, say the average person can process 250 mg of Vit C at a time, then giving them 1000 mg would cause the excess to be converted to oxalate....this is in an average and healthy person.  But if the person doesn't have the metabolic capacity of the average person, they might only have the resources to metabolize 25 mg at a time, and then the rest would convert to oxalate...so even if you gave a person with that type of metabolic problem 250 mg of Vit C (which the average person might not have problems with), the lack of resources to process all that Vit C would mean that 175 mg of Vit C isn't being used and for some reason they can't excrete it, and it hangs around in the system and then converts to oxalate.  And then, if you have oxidative stress, guess where all that endogenously made oxalate (it would be made in the cytosol of the cell) is going...yep, right into the mitochondrion.  Vicious, ugly cycle.  That's why Vit C can really suck for some people until you get the problem fixed and the person can metabolize Vit C properly.

Funny enough, our Vit C levels went up marginally when we started supplementing P5P (this was before we did high dose B6 and added proper mito support).  But even after doing high dose B6 for a few months, we still couldn't tolerate much Vit C supplementation (not enough for AC chelation).  When I tried to ramp it up, we hit a wall when we hit about 150 to 200 mg/day (divided into 3 doses throughout the day) and it took about 2 months to reverse the damage from that.  You could see her mito and digestive problems starting to cascade again.  Not pretty.  I'd love to run another OAT for Maia to gauge this hypothesis, but no $$$ right now.  But it almost looks like this is what's happening with her.

[Guest guest]

Yes it is a function of metabolism, and it's connected to the Krebs cycle (Citric Cycle). Which is why you see improvement with Bs. Here's the deal with the Krebs Cycle: if one part is off, the *entire* cycle is off.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~~ Make a biomed book ~~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

Anyone else, feel free to jump in. From what I understand, Vit C itself isn't high oxalate. It's more an issue of it converting to oxalate. A lot of people with oxalate problems also have abnormally low Vit C on their OAT. Maia's first OAT showed that her Vit C was almost non-existent. Yet, supplementing Vit C caused it to raise her oxalates because she couldn't use all (or any) of it that was taken in and it just converted to oxalate.

From what I understand about it, it's more of a metabolic problem...cells cannot properly metabolize Vit C and any Vit C that the body deems as "excess" gets converted to oxalate. So, if there's a Vit C metabolism problem, a greater percentage of Vit C intake converts to oxalate because the threshold of what the body thinks is "too much" is lowered when there's metabolic problem associated with Vit C? Hypothetically, say the average person can process 250 mg of Vit C at a time, then giving them 1000 mg would cause the excess to be converted to oxalate....this is in an average and healthy person. But if the person doesn't have the metabolic capacity of the average person, they might only have the resources to metabolize 25 mg at a time, and then the rest would convert to oxalate...so even if you gave a person with that type of metabolic problem 250 mg of Vit C (which the average person might not have problems with), the lack of resources to process all that Vit C would mean that 175 mg of Vit C isn't being used and for some reason they can't excrete it, and it hangs around in the system and then converts to oxalate. And then, if you have oxidative stress, guess where all that endogenously made oxalate (it would be made in the cytosol of the cell) is going...yep, right into the mitochondrion. Vicious, ugly cycle. That's why Vit C can really suck for some people until you get the problem fixed and the person can metabolize Vit C properly.

Funny enough, our Vit C levels went up marginally when we started supplementing P5P (this was before we did high dose B6 and added proper mito support). But even after doing high dose B6 for a few months, we still couldn't tolerate much Vit C supplementation (not enough for AC chelation). When I tried to ramp it up, we hit a wall when we hit about 150 to 200 mg/day (divided into 3 doses throughout the day) and it took about 2 months to reverse the damage from that. You could see her mito and digestive problems starting to cascade again. Not pretty. I'd love to run another OAT for Maia to gauge this hypothesis, but no $$$ right now. But it almost looks like this is what's happening with her.

[Guest guest]

Thank u!!!! A lot to learn still!!!Sent from my iPod

BBB = Blood Brain Barrier, which is a lipophilic barrier. If you want something to cross this barrier, it is hooked up to a specific fat that gets bound to the fats in this barrier. Any fat won't work.

Alberta, you are quite right, there are some studies supporting this notion.http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w99/kidneystones.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12631089

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472830/ NoelOn Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Alberta wrote:

Anyone else, feel free to jump in. From what I understand, Vit C itself isn't high oxalate. It's more an issue of it converting to oxalate. A lot of people with oxalate problems also have abnormally low Vit C on their OAT. Maia's first OAT showed that her Vit C was almost non-existent. Yet, supplementing Vit C caused it to raise her oxalates because she couldn't use all (or any) of it that was taken in and it just converted to oxalate.

From what I understand about it, it's more of a metabolic problem...cells cannot properly metabolize Vit C and any Vit C that the body deems as "excess" gets converted to oxalate. So, if there's a Vit C metabolism problem, a greater percentage of Vit C intake converts to oxalate because the threshold of what the body thinks is "too much" is lowered when there's metabolic problem associated with Vit C? Hypothetically, say the average person can process 250 mg of Vit C at a time, then giving them 1000 mg would cause the excess to be converted to oxalate....this is in an average and healthy person. But if the person doesn't have the metabolic capacity of the average person, they might only have the resources to metabolize 25 mg at a time, and then the rest would convert to oxalate...so even if you gave a person with that type of metabolic problem 250 mg of Vit C (which the average person might not have problems with), the lack of resources to process all that Vit C would mean that 175 mg of Vit C isn't being used and for some reason they can't excrete it, and it hangs around in the system and then converts to oxalate. And then, if you have oxidative stress, guess where all that endogenously made oxalate (it would be made in the cytosol of the cell) is going...yep, right into the mitochondrion. Vicious, ugly cycle. That's why Vit C can really suck for some people until you get the problem fixed and the person can metabolize Vit C properly.

Funny enough, our Vit C levels went up marginally when we started supplementing P5P (this was before we did high dose B6 and added proper mito support). But even after doing high dose B6 for a few months, we still couldn't tolerate much Vit C supplementation (not enough for AC chelation). When I tried to ramp it up, we hit a wall when we hit about 150 to 200 mg/day (divided into 3 doses throughout the day) and it took about 2 months to reverse the damage from that. You could see her mito and digestive problems starting to cascade again. Not pretty. I'd love to run another OAT for Maia to gauge this hypothesis, but no $$$ right now. But it almost looks like this is what's happening with her.