Guest guest Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'll put this in point form because it's easier and my mind is just spinning. 1. No gifts or cards or phone call for dd birthday. This from a dada who accussed me of not sending an ecard for mum's birthday. 2. Really fearful of what will come next? more mediation, legal stuff? 3. Feeling paranoid that they have my email password and can read my email even though i changed my password and now access this group from a different address. 4. feeling depressed and hurt, angry and FOG to call. I don't know what to do any more. Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'm so sorry for all you're going through. It sounds like your father is trying to punish you for daring to go against him and is taking it out against your daughter's birthday. In a way, it's for the better. If he had sent a card or gift, he might feel you owed him full reconciliation. I'm not sure what kind of mediation or legal stuff your parents could legally bring against you, and for what? You're of age and your children are your children, not theirs. (I'm sorry if you mentioned the legal aspect earlier and I missed it.) I truly know how hard this is for you. I've been through it, too, to the point where I felt physical pain about it. I had to keep reminding myself that I AM an adult and that I am entitled to my own opinion and that I don't have to dance the dance anymore with nada. When I stopped dancing, it was very, very ugly; it was like conjoined twins being ripped apart: painful, but necessary. A very hard time for me. But it's important you stand your ground. I'm really proud of you. Stay strong, Steph. Stay with us, keep reading about living with BPDs. > > I'll put this in point form because it's easier and my mind is > just spinning. > 1. No gifts or cards or phone call for dd birthday. This from a > dada who accussed me of not sending an ecard for mum's birthday. > 2. Really fearful of what will come next? more mediation, legal > stuff? > 3. Feeling paranoid that they have my email password and can > read my email even though i changed my password and now access > this group from a different address. > 4. feeling depressed and hurt, angry and FOG to call. > I don't know what to do any more. > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi Steph, I am sorry you are having to experience this. You sound scared to me. Are you? If so maybe you could explain why a bit more and those of us here will do our best to help you through this. Point form is just fine. We understand what it is like to be in the kind of state you are in. Just keep expressing yourself as best you can (and it IS good enough) and we'll just keep trying to help as best we can. Hugs, HC > > I'll put this in point form because it's easier and my mind is > just spinning. > 1. No gifts or cards or phone call for dd birthday. This from a > dada who accussed me of not sending an ecard for mum's birthday. > 2. Really fearful of what will come next? more mediation, legal > stuff? > 3. Feeling paranoid that they have my email password and can > read my email even though i changed my password and now access > this group from a different address. > 4. feeling depressed and hurt, angry and FOG to call. > I don't know what to do any more. > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Steph, you dont need to appoligise here. we all understand. I am wordy and my posts are long. I feel embarassed by that sometimes, but that is my way of communicating. and people read them anyway and have helped me. we all have our own way of doing things. legal stuff? what kind of crap have they put you through? even if it happens you are married and an adult if this is about the kids, things will be OK. as was mentioned recently as long as the kids are safe physically and not neglected (real neglect not the little mistakes you make that you are beating yourself up for) your kids are safe. are you worried about their saftey? I agree you sound scared. Punishing your children when they are mad at you is sick.what an ass. your kids deserve better. but the person that they need is you more than anything. my grandparents never had enough money to give us much, but it was not that important. you are their protection, and their biggest source of love. you don't need to call them. I NEVER call my nada. she calls me all the time, so I have no reason to. you don't have to return calls unless it is an Emergency. I started doing that LONG before I stopped being enmeshed. I think my instincts were smarter than my brain. you don't OWE them anything. the best passwords are ones that only mean something to you. (i.e. one day you were at the park on a sunny day and you stepped on a squirrel, so the password would be sunparksquirrel) I would like to see them come up with that. I am sure none of this is news to you, but it is hard to remember sometimes. do something simple today read the kids one of your favorite stories, or sit down and color with them. kids are so uplifting when you spend time with them. when they are not aggravating they are therapeutic. or if you have nothing to give today do something you like. I read one of my guilty pleasure books for me it is often anything by L.M. Montgomery (like Anne of Green Gables) I am finally coming out of a FOG myself. it is so hard to have people you care about (or should?) be so mean. I still have tr remind myself often that I have nothing to prove. something that I realised that has helped me detach a little more recently is that I realised that the person my mom criticise, and abuses does not exist. her perceptions of me are so off. and my husband and kids love and trust ME not that other girl. I am sure that is true for you too. you are not only good enough you are FANTASTIC. I am sure of it. give your kids your love THEY will reciprocate. Meikjn > > > > I'll put this in point form because it's easier and my mind is > > just spinning. > > 1. No gifts or cards or phone call for dd birthday. This from a > > dada who accussed me of not sending an ecard for mum's birthday. > > 2. Really fearful of what will come next? more mediation, legal > > stuff? > > 3. Feeling paranoid that they have my email password and can > > read my email even though i changed my password and now access > > this group from a different address. > > 4. feeling depressed and hurt, angry and FOG to call. > > I don't know what to do any more. > > Steph > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks. It's nice to be heard! Steph Re: feeling really depressed Steph, you dont need to appoligise here. we all understand. I am wordy and my posts are long. I feel embarassed by that sometimes, but that is my way of communicating. and people read them anyway and have helped me. we all have our own way of doing things. legal stuff? what kind of crap have they put you through? even if it happens you are married and an adult if this is about the kids, things will be OK.. as was mentioned recently as long as the kids are safe physically and not neglected (real neglect not the little mistakes you make that you are beating yourself up for) your kids are safe. are you worried about their saftey? I agree you sound scared. Punishing your children when they are mad at you is sick.what an ass. your kids deserve better. but the person that they need is you more than anything. my grandparents never had enough money to give us much, but it was not that important. you are their protection, and their biggest source of love. you don't need to call them. I NEVER call my nada. she calls me all the time, so I have no reason to. you don't have to return calls unless it is an Emergency. I started doing that LONG before I stopped being enmeshed. I think my instincts were smarter than my brain. you don't OWE them anything. the best passwords are ones that only mean something to you. (i.e. one day you were at the park on a sunny day and you stepped on a squirrel, so the password would be sunparksquirrel) I would like to see them come up with that. I am sure none of this is news to you, but it is hard to remember sometimes.. do something simple today read the kids one of your favorite stories, or sit down and color with them. kids are so uplifting when you spend time with them. when they are not aggravating they are therapeutic. or if you have nothing to give today do something you like. I read one of my guilty pleasure books for me it is often anything by L.M. Montgomery (like Anne of Green Gables) I am finally coming out of a FOG myself. it is so hard to have people you care about (or should?) be so mean. I still have tr remind myself often that I have nothing to prove. something that I realised that has helped me detach a little more recently is that I realised that the person my mom criticise, and abuses does not exist. her perceptions of me are so off. and my husband and kids love and trust ME not that other girl. I am sure that is true for you too. you are not only good enough you are FANTASTIC. I am sure of it. give your kids your love THEY will reciprocate. Meikjn I'll put this in point form because it's easier and my mind is just spinning. 1. No gifts or cards or phone call for dd birthday. This from a dada who accussed me of not sending an ecard for mum's birthday. 2. Really fearful of what will come next? more mediation, legal stuff? 3. Feeling paranoid that they have my email password and can read my email even though i changed my password and now access this group from a different address. 4. feeling depressed and hurt, angry and FOG to call. I don't know what to do any more. Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi all, Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed scared and frustrated. First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I don't need them adding to that. Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to the kids. She wanted the following: -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for them. -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying them access. Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally which is what I'm afraid of. Sorry for the novel. Steph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 yikes!!!!! it's not like you are divorced! cant the law see she is wacko? you are right to be scared and ANGRY about that. SWOE talks about some things you can do in a legal situation. I would show them the e-mail from step-fada. and relate that they did not send a card. keep records. nothing like having your parenting put under a microscope. this really makes me ache for you. I had a thought today. I remember that you mentioned previously that your son was told that your parents don't like the way you are raising your kids. so, My Nada blames the in-laws for EVERYTHING. one example is a b-i-l I have that is a nice guy, a fantastic businessman, and a supportive loving father and husband they have been married 22 years. my Nada has a set perception of him that " he does not let kids be kids " and that he is " controlling " and blah, blah, blah. this stems as far as I can tell from one or two incidents where we were visiting them (this sister is older than me and we as a family would visit when I was growing up.)and he yelled at the kids for normal things. the real issue is that this B-I-L helped my sister to detach. and nada blames him because well that's what she always does. she refuses to acknowledge her role in relationship problems. the point is they are not judging you and your husband really. they are just scared to be abandoned. and can't act humane about it. this is not to say it does not really stink to be you right now. personally I think this is BS. You have every right to protect your children. and they are wasting everyone's time, and money (not to mention sanity) on a situation it sounds like you are more reasonable about. Meikjn > > Hi all, > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > scared and frustrated. > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > don't need them adding to that. > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > the kids. She wanted the following: > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > them. > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > them access. > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > which is what I'm afraid of. > Sorry for the novel. > Steph > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The " set perception " you mentioned could possibly be a " fixed delusion. " My nada had several persistent fixed delusions about various people and events, throughout her life. Each of these fixed delusions were negative; they were about someone having persecuted her or " done her wrong " in some way, that allowed her to position herself as the victim. Transient delusions and transient paranoid thoughts and feelings are a diagnostic trait of borderline pd, but these " transient " or short-lived abnormal perceptions are triggered by stress (if I understand what I've read in the DSM, correctly.) My Sister speculates that our recently deceased nada's long-term fixed delusions may have been,due to an underlying psychotic disorder like schizophrenia, possibly. At this point in time, it seems to me that the whole idea of " separate disorders " is kind of an artificial construct; I'd love to read any studies about how it is determined, or at what point does a " transient " delusion becomes a " fixed " delusion, and what causes that. Annie > > > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > scared and frustrated. > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > don't need them adding to that. > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > them. > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > them access. > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > Sorry for the novel. > > Steph > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi Annie, I answer to your interest about how transient phenomena become fixed phenomena, poke around the psychological literature using terms such as " psychological states becoming traits " , and " how mental states become traits " . These are the terms in which this is often discussed. I remember reading several interesting articles on this in grad school. If I can remember the sources, I will post again. It is really interesting. HC > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > scared and frustrated. > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > them. > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > them access. > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > Steph > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 My Nada has Tons of fixed delusions. most come from a single event or very little " persecution " her only real " friend " is a woman who used to be my Sunday school teacher. she is a super nice lady who likes to make food whenever anyone comes to visit whether you are hungry or not.I was friends with her son, and NADA thought I should marry him. We never even dated. Nada says she is a liar, and you have to " consider the source " every time she talks about her. this women is Nada's source of info. for some people we used to know. It is so sad that Nada can't like anyone once she learns (or thinks) they have flaws. I have no reason to believe she is a liar. she exaggerates sometimes, but no more than normal.nada tells outright lies all the time to make herself look good. many of us grew up thinking Nada has a masters degree, and that her Dad fought in D-day,(he entered the war after) neither are true. there was a fancy choir I was in I have talked about it before. the director is fantastic. Nada has a fixed delusion that this woman " was always horrible to you " (me)and is the " cause for all your rhythm problems " (which I never believed at all)which are incredibly slanderous things to say. and so far from reality. I used to be so confused about this one. I used to be paranoid she would be mean, but now I realize she never was. as far as I can remember she never even displayed any signs of disliking me, quite the opposite in fact. she was strict, but it was only because she had a high standards for us in the choir and we loved her for it. I am confident that this came from a single incident. Nada was the adult Sunday school teacher. the way she teaches lessons is " my family is wonderful at living this principle this is how you can be like us " (another fixed delusion we are the " perfect family " and she has the " perfect marriage " ) understandably this offended people. and someone told the bishop. this choir director happened to be the head of all the Sunday schools. so she had a meeting with Nada to tell her to tone down the personal stories because they are offending people and teach from the scriptures more. Poor, poor Nada. this was Years ago. her fixed delusion in relationship to me may very well be jealousy. nada knows this was my most positive experience in music. consciously or not she was (and did) tainting it for me. ok this post could be HUGE. I have so many stories like this. these are some that have really bothered me because I spent some time believing them. I don't now. she still does. she blames my ex-b-I-L for choices my sister makes she does not like, and the same sisters best friend from HS for making her marry him in the first place (she met him in college) she blamed yet another B-I-L for being controlling and that is why my sister went on birth control and when she had fertility problems nada declared to the world that BC had " ruined her body " (she said all of this about 2 sisters)she blames my husband for keeping me from the family (we visit as much as a grad student with 3 kids, and a tiny income can) CRAZY... whether or not this is a criteria for BPD my nada does it. as far as I can tell, BPD exhibits itself in a vast many ways. all I know is that whatever you call the cause it is horribly sad. it damages the relationship with everyone connected to it. I used to believe some of her delusions, and I am examining the people in my life carefully, and trying to dismantle what she told me about them. the lies are huge. the crazy part is that I am convinced she is not a liar. just very sick. Meikjn > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > scared and frustrated. > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > them. > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > them access. > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > Steph > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Here is one article I just found which may lead to some others: http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/perry_childhood_trauma_the_neurobilogy_of_adapta\ tion_states.pdf. As I mentioned, this is a subject that I find really interesting, particularly as person interested in healing. One of the things to remember about PTSD and trauma, is that once a person has been exposed to significant, overwhelming experiences, they may be thereafter, more vulnerable to further ones than they may have been otherwise. Metaphorically, it is almost like the way allergic reactions work. First exposure results in excessive localized swelling. Second results in hives all over and the third full-blown anaphalaxis, even though there is no difference in the quantity of allergic material. So, for example in my case, I was in a traumatized, " PTSDish " state for quite a while as a child because of my environment and experiences. I adapted and coped to the best of my ability at the time. Eventually, things got better. We moved from the town where I was being bullied and taunted, my mother came out of the hospital and was no longer suicidal (though neither of us were happy campers), our living environment was somewhat less chaotic (there was food in the house, for example), etc. Life was hardly a rose garden, it did not overwhelm my ability to could cope at that point. Then I made it all the way to my late 30's before I was really significantly ptsdish again. That was when I was overwhelmed with babies, grief, abusive husband, horrible extended foo experiences, etc. I was actually semi-consciously aware of how the long-forgotten traumatic " states " of my childhood (hyper vigilance, dissociation, insomnia, social withdrawal, depression/anxiety, paranoia, etc.) swept back over me and threatened to consume me. It scared the sh*t out of me. I really had no control over it with my will despite my awareness of it or even by changing my habits, yet I still had this witnessing eye on it. It was weird. Medication helped a little. I started reading everything I could get my hands on to understand it. What really made the difference was over time finding really caring, supportive people who could both tolerate and understand my distress and, most importantly, I had to my environment (lose the husband, move, getting better childcare, go back to grad school so I felt stimulated, connect in social environments with goodhearted and trustworthy people, i.e., find my tribe so to speak). The reason I am spelling all of this out is that I really believe that if I had not made those changes, the state(s) that I was in would have solidified into traits. Through my experiences and studies, I have come not to think of people and their mental health as isolated from their contexts. Their contexts consist of those with whom they interact as well as their broader social/economic/political, etc. circumstances. The primary person with whom I was interacting with at that time (husband) was abusive to me as had been my nada, so the " re-instatement " of the state(s) made sense - they were a way of coping defensively. Another way to say this is that you can't separate the biology/physiology of this phenomenon from the social context. One thing that I feel so, so, so bad about, is that I may well have ended up becoming my mother. She had an abusive husband (my fada). In fact he was way worse to her than mine was to me. And she had so little social support and was much worse off economically. I constantly wonder if her states need not have become traits if these other circumstances had been different. I can remember back to when I was really little before things got so bad for her and she only had really fleeting episodes of the awfulness that she lives every day now. She was really loving and often happy. It makes me so, so sad to think about. Anyway this is one big, long, disjointed ramble, but this topic fascinates me. I would love to engage with you KOs out there on this! Thoughts, questions, and stories are invited. HC > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > scared and frustrated. > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > them. > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > them access. > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > Steph > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think that environment has a lot to do with it. Had things been different in the beginning - nice, peaceful, healthy, would anyone turn into a BP? Probably not. If we all had healthy childhoods and loving spouses, there would be no need for defense mechanisms to trigger and for mental disorders to develop later on. Why do you think a lot of mental hospitals are set up in nature and away from stressful triggers? That said, we also have a responsibility to become aware of our problems, acknowledge them,and overcome our bad tendencies the best we can. The earlier, the better. Who knows how it actually " might have been " in different circumstances. But you haven't become you mother. The one difference is that you can recognize what behavior of yours is good and bad. That is a huge difference! :-) And that can help you heal. > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > them. > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > them access. > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hello All- I haven't posted in a while but I wanted to respond to what HC brought up, since I've been thinking a lot about this the last year. We have a wonderful foster daughter, whom I'll call Anne, whom I am now very close to, but about a year ago she scared the bejeezus out of me because she started to exhibit traits that reminded me strongly of my BPD father and brother - switching from love to hate overnight, turning on a dime, black/white thinking, etc. People who didn't know about BPD said to me " Oh, that's just a typical teenager " but I could tell something really messed up was happening. After talking to her therapist and reading several articles on the subject, I found out that many professionals now think BPD and Complex Post-Traumatic Stress disorder are actually one and the same thing. Complex PTSD is a lasting response to repeated trauma. Luckily with a lot of love, patience, and therapy got things back onto an even keel. She's now blossoming beautifully. So in other words, Anne was heading straight down that BPD highway, but we were able to intervene and change her course. Years of trauma and neglect had really primed her for BPD, thankfully she had a strong inner bias towards mental health and a good moral compass (where from, God alone knows). We were able to give her a safe, stable loving home where she could begin to experience safety and trust. Helping her put herself back together has been fascinating. Anne's 14 now, but she quickly re-lived all the stages of childhood, all the things she hadn't been able to experience safely before. She had me hold her like a baby while she stared into my eyes, wash her face, brush her teeth, make her comfort food, read her stories. She climbed all over my husband like a little kid would, or had him carry her around. I read recently in a great book, called " Nurturing Adoptions " how children learn to regulate their emotions by looking to their parents - that looking into a parent's eyes actually alters neural pathways in a baby's brain so that they mimic the parent's emotional regulation. Bad news for those of us whose parent's emotions were completely unregulated!!! Actually, this book was real eye-opener for me, because it's designed to help you understand the effects of abuse, neglect, and trauma on kids. It helped me understand my own past, the extent of my own recovery, and how to help Anne. Anne mostly acts her age now, except in times of stress, though we still all enjoy moments of great silliness. But we still sometimes wonder what would have happened to her if we hadn't met her, if she'd stayed in her (mentally ill and cognitively limited) mother's house. Interestingly, she had a very elaborate fantasy world that she retreated to during abuse or neglect. Now that she trusts me, she's shared that story with me and even wants us to write it down together. She says she doesn't really need it anymore. But I wonder, if she had had to spend more time in that imaginary world, or escape there to avoid even worse things than she's already lived through, would it have become outright psychosis? Would there have been a day when she simply didn't return from the fantasy? Chilling to think of. BTW, her social worker thinks her mom has BPD. Her mom survived a terrible war as child in her home country, and years of abuse from family members, so it's not hard to see why she's so troubled... Letty > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > them. > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > them access. > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 My Nada grew up in a loving environment. unless my grandma has changed a lot. I think things are better for me than others here, but BPD is not just the fruits of abuse. > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > > them. > > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > > them access. > > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 <<but BPD is not just the fruits of abuse. >>   I believe you are correct. I recall there is a cite in the circa 1998 edition of SWOE to a medical journal article to the effect that BPD can emerge even without an abusive environment. (It is referenced in the context that some therapists assume that a prior exposure to abuse of some kind is always necessary to make a BPD diagnosis, but that is no longer the case.)  To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 2:11 PM Subject: Re: feeling really depressed  My Nada grew up in a loving environment. unless my grandma has changed a lot. I think things are better for me than others here, but BPD is not just the fruits of abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 The theory that makes the most sense to me is that developing a personality disorder happens due to a combination of an invalidating environment (or the perception on the part of the individual that the environment is invalidating) *plus* a genetic predispostion or genetic vulnerability to the invalidating environment aka " resiliencey " . Resiliency and sensitivity are two of the inborn temperament factors; part of the " building blocks " that makes an individual an individual. So, for example, in my own case and my Sister's case, we were raised by a mom with borderline pd and other Cluster B pd traits, and obsessive-compulsive personality disorder traits. We experienced a lot of emotional and physical abuse during our growing up years, my Sister and I, and yet we did not develop any of the Cluster B disorders. We have other psychological damage, such as complex ptsd symptoms, depression, partial childhood amnesia in my Sister, and in my case, c-ptsd and avoidant pd symptoms (and who knows, possibly full-blown avoidant pd; I've never been formally diagnosed.) So, the idea that both " nature AND nurture " are involved in order to produce personality disorder makes sense to me. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > > them. > > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > > them access. > > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I mentioned that my nada grew up in a loving environment. as far as I can tell no other of her siblings have BPD. their families are close (not the fake close my nada insists we have, we all put on a good show) and encouraging, and share common goals etc. like a family should. my Nada claims that a number of the families are all just clones of each other because their parents never let them choose their own interests (unlike us) etc. it was a family " joke " that I should have been an Ormand (my cousins) because I have similar interests and get along really well with them and don't really fit in in my own family.nada demands that I conform to our family by criticizing my individuality. Nada sees families as a huge competition. number of kids, grand-kids,kids that are married young (she thinks this is a mark of desirability) how educated they are (except my husband who has the most education and is inexplicably criticized for it, at least when she isn't bragging.)what illnesses we don't have. what position they hold in the church, and just about anything else she can compare.this all screams to me that she feels inferior to her family somehow. she has an " explanation " for everyone. all are absurd. her mom is a bit bossy (not bpd bossy at all, just regular kind.) Nada has always said that her mom " is the way she is " because her mother was an " invalid " (I don't have any clue what her actual ailment was) and my g-ma was " forced " to take on the role of mother as the oldest girl. I have some reasons to question this story completely, but this is not the place... the thing that makes me frustrated about this is that almost all of us were parentafied in some way. some of my sisters to the extreme. nada thinks that was our job, or denies it happened as the mood strikes. she created a rigid hierarchy in our family based oldest to youngest that was always enforced no matter how wrong. I am the youngest, so this was hard on me. she is the oldest girl (one older brother) in her family so clearly she is trying to right a preconceived wrong with that one. I guess I don't know g-ma well enough to say either way if she has a PD. she does play the I am going to die soon so the family reunion should be where I want it (she is 93) card etc, but it is not her excuse for everything. my g-pa was amazing and way too nice to be PD. one event stands out to me as evidence of the lack of BPD in my g-ma. one day when I was spending the night at her house I wet the bed. I was scared to tell anyone. so I left it. g-ma found it and came to where we were playing and got after me about it in front of everyone. it made me very upset. she then pulled me aside, and apologized and explained that I was not in trouble for wetting the bed, but that she just needed to be told so she could clean it up, and did not like finding it the hard way. she even apologized to my cousins. when I was still upset she spent the rest of the day trying to cheer me up. she gave me some of her special stash of candy (she was raised during the depression, and this is sacred to her) and showed me her treasures and told me stories about them. it was a wonderful day. the best nada can do by way of apology is to express that she can see how things could make me upset, and express concern that I was unhappy. then she would usually explain why I don't need to be upset by blaming everyone else. awwww. I think my Nada developed BPD because of DNA. and because she thinks very poorly of herself, and her family who is amazing made her feel inferior. her siblings are all painted white, and their spouses (mostly) are the bad ones. a trend she has continued with her own kids and their spouses. some couples are both white, but it seems to be unrelated to accomplishments, or all the other crap she brags about. it just has to do with how well they see her flaws, and if they like the things she wants them to. she is a big faker. she projects a wonderful close happy family to everyone outside the immediate family to a degree that is revolting. and craps on the ones of us who defy her perfection ,by questioning it, within the family. I guess that is her dry alcoholic behavior. I am a huge fly in her ointment. my flaws can't all be covered up. Meikjn > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > > > them. > > > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > > > them access. > > > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Letty, I am so glad you found your way to recovery and that " Anne " found her way to you. She is one lucky girl to have landed in a reality with a caring soul such as yourself thereby making her fantasy world obsolete. HC > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > > them. > > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > > them access. > > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks, HC! Will do. -Annie > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for the replies. I would reply to each one, but I have > > > > limited time right now, and am feeling still very depressed > > > > scared and frustrated. > > > > First of all, I am just plain fucking angry. Because they are > > > > using our kids like pawns and I think that's just disgusting. > > > > How dare they decide not to send our daughter a card or gift, not > > > > because they didn't send it, but because I didn't send mum an > > > > ecard for her birthday. It's almost like payback for what I did! > > > > And I think it repulsive that she used the kids to express that. > > > > Secondly, I know deep down it's probably for the best there's no > > > > contact. But I have to grieve. Why can't I have a normal family > > > > who accepts me how I am? I have enough trouble with that as it > > > > is, I have enough trouble building a network in real life, and I > > > > don't need them adding to that. > > > > Thirdly, we did go through mediation 2 years ago. It was > > > > requested by then. We just got a letter ouI even tri of the blue > > > > one day, saying nada wanted mediation. We had no idea why. We > > > > even trying writing to her twice to find out, but we never heard > > > > back. The medeaation started out with nada telling me that she > > > > didn't really want a realationship with me, but she wanted to > > > > have one with the kids. The mediation was to set up access to > > > > the kids. She wanted the following: > > > > -- 3 visits from us per year interstate to see her. > > > > -- us to let her know when we got gifts, and to thank her for > > > > them. > > > > -- 10 min phone calls with the kids once every 2 weeks > > > > We never made it past the phone calls. We tried to push for once > > > > a month because of church and we wanted to live life. We also > > > > suggested unlimited time on the phone, but she didn't like that. > > > > Then suddenly she got too emotional to continue. and ranted on > > > > about how we didn't go to her 60th birthday. > > > > betw, before the mediation, we have tried skype, we have our > > > > photos on the net, we also allowed them to call any time. They > > > > never took us up on that. The claim was that we were denying > > > > them access. > > > > Apparently, gandparents could have visiting rights legalally > > > > which is what I'm afraid of. > > > > Sorry for the novel. > > > > Steph > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hi Meijkin, Your nada and mine may be (or may have been) very similar. My recently-deceased nada *perceived* or interpreted her childhood as highly abusive and invalidating, but her sisters (both of whom are just very sweet, normal, relatively mentally healthy people) do not corroborate my nada's version of her childhood. Both of my mother's sisters were actually astonished and taken aback when my Sister shared with them the stories that Sister and I had been told over and over during our growing up years about how abusive our nada's parents were. My own perceptions growing up and into my adulthood were that my grandparents were just nice, sweet people. I never saw my grandfather/nada's dad become enraged, scream at anyone or hit them, as my nada said he did, and I never saw my grandmother/nada's mom " playing favorites " or rejecting or ignoring my mom, or us. I grew up hearing my mother claim that her own mother hated her and preferred her older sister to her. Nada loathed her older sister and took opportunities to get her sister alone (I didn't count as a witness, apparently) and revile her sister to her face, at family dinners. All my Aunt did about this was walk away from my nada's tirade, and then cry afterward, when she was back at her home with her own husband and kids. So, over time, as an adult, I began to seriously question my nada's version of reality because there was such a huge disconnect between what she claimed her foo members were like, and how *I* personally experienced them, and observed them behaving. My own mother was the only adult I ever saw who would pick fights with others, use ugly verbal abuse against others, claim that I (and others, like my Sister and like dad) had done ugly things I had never done, or said, or thought. My own mother is the only adult I ever experienced who would fly into screaming, red-faced, spittle-flying terrifying rages, attack me physically, and during these horrifying rages, she didn't even seem to *know me.* When my nada started claiming that my dad had beat her throughout their marriage, and that he had been running around having affairs on her throughout their marriage, it really hit home RE how skewed and bizarre my nada's perception of reality truly was. In her later years nada began claiming that she had never been physically violent with Sister and me, that both of us are liars, and she began claiming that Sister and I were out to steal her money from her. Apparently for her whole life, my nada has had these delusions of being persecuted and victimized, and that she herself was perfect. Its sad that her distorted reality caused so much very real damage to her foo and to her relationship with her own husband and kids. So, I personally believe that a mentally-unbalanced individual like my recently deceased nada (who had delusional and paranoid thinking up the wazoo) will *interpret* her environment as being hostile and persecutory and manipulative and exploitative toward her, even when there is no genuine abuse or neglect or exploitation going on at all. -Annie > > > I mentioned that my nada grew up in a loving environment. as far as I can tell no other of her siblings have BPD. their families are close (not the fake close my nada insists we have, we all put on a good show) and encouraging, and share common goals etc. like a family should. my Nada claims that a number of the families are all just clones of each other because their parents never let them choose their own interests (unlike us) etc. it was a family " joke " that I should have been an Ormand (my cousins) because I have similar interests and get along really well with them and don't really fit in in my own family.nada demands that I conform to our family by criticizing my individuality. > > Nada sees families as a huge competition. number of kids, grand-kids,kids that are married young (she thinks this is a mark of desirability) how educated they are (except my husband who has the most education and is inexplicably criticized for it, at least when she isn't bragging.)what illnesses we don't have. what position they hold in the church, and just about anything else she can compare.this all screams to me that she feels inferior to her family somehow. > > she has an " explanation " for everyone. all are absurd. her mom is a bit bossy (not bpd bossy at all, just regular kind.) Nada has always said that her mom " is the way she is " because her mother was an " invalid " (I don't have any clue what her actual ailment was) and my g-ma was " forced " to take on the role of mother as the oldest girl. I have some reasons to question this story completely, but this is not the place... > > the thing that makes me frustrated about this is that almost all of us were parentafied in some way. some of my sisters to the extreme. nada thinks that was our job, or denies it happened as the mood strikes. > > she created a rigid hierarchy in our family based oldest to youngest that was always enforced no matter how wrong. I am the youngest, so this was hard on me. she is the oldest girl (one older brother) in her family so clearly she is trying to right a preconceived wrong with that one. > > I guess I don't know g-ma well enough to say either way if she has a PD. she does play the I am going to die soon so the family reunion should be where I want it (she is 93) card etc, but it is not her excuse for everything. my g-pa was amazing and way too nice to be PD. > > one event stands out to me as evidence of the lack of BPD in my g-ma. one day when I was spending the night at her house I wet the bed. I was scared to tell anyone. so I left it. g-ma found it and came to where we were playing and got after me about it in front of everyone. it made me very upset. she then pulled me aside, and apologized and explained that I was not in trouble for wetting the bed, but that she just needed to be told so she could clean it up, and did not like finding it the hard way. she even apologized to my cousins. when I was still upset she spent the rest of the day trying to cheer me up. she gave me some of her special stash of candy (she was raised during the depression, and this is sacred to her) and showed me her treasures and told me stories about them. it was a wonderful day. the best nada can do by way of apology is to express that she can see how things could make me upset, and express concern that I was unhappy. then she would usually explain why I don't need to be upset by blaming everyone else. awwww. > > I think my Nada developed BPD because of DNA. and because she thinks very poorly of herself, and her family who is amazing made her feel inferior. her siblings are all painted white, and their spouses (mostly) are the bad ones. a trend she has continued with her own kids and their spouses. some couples are both white, but it seems to be unrelated to accomplishments, or all the other crap she brags about. it just has to do with how well they see her flaws, and if they like the things she wants them to. she is a big faker. she projects a wonderful close happy family to everyone outside the immediate family to a degree that is revolting. and craps on the ones of us who defy her perfection ,by questioning it, within the family. I guess that is her dry alcoholic behavior. I am a huge fly in her ointment. my flaws can't all be covered up. > > Meikjn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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