What is the goal of counseling?

July 8, 2011

Hello Group,

I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face issues from

my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would love to return to

the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As my therapist says,

though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So onward I progress on this

unpleasant journey.

Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible nightmares. I am

convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me in a horrible

way and will continue to hold power over me until I face them.

Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with mistrust of the

whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about that I can't

change anyway and would rather forget.

Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and how it

occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me and

holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am overreacting or

hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I am aware

of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and spiritually abusive.

I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in the deepest part of

my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better now and mostly just

pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was occurred during my

infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a functioning alcholic and

divorced. I can guess I was left alone and neglected from reports of physical

problems and hearing loss from lack of medical care. But I have an almost

" memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps shaking me when I cried or something along

those lines? That would make sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM

SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL

REASONING? I'm not even convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it

with all my heart- especially for the good of my children.

Sincere Thanks,

Coal Miner's Daughter

July 8, 2011

I've been in counseling in fits and starts for the same reasons as you--and

recently have resolved to do it for the sake of my future children. So, I've

been in regular counseling for a little over 2 months now. And already I

feel like I'm making progress--and by progress, I mean that I'm learning

skills for coping with the past. I tend to ruminate over things, which

causes me to feel sad and depressed and argumentative, which only makes me

ruminate even more. But with counseling, so far, I've learned to recognize

some of the rumination, and set it aside. It used to constantly sit on my

brain and interfere with enjoyment of daily activities. But now, I can say

to myself, " Don't. Not right now. Set it aside so you can talk about it in

counseling. "

It's brought up a few memories that I've repressed, during counseling. And

by reprocessing the memories, it's able to lose some of its sting. There are

some things I don't want to go to yet because it holds such powerful fear

over me. But some of the lesser memories that we've started with, and the

ones I'm ready to face again---I can think about it objectively. Instead of

constantly trying to repress my memories, it's become a part of me. And by

making it a part of me, I can put it in the past, where it belongs. And by

putting it in the past, I can live in the present, and go to the future,

without having to constantly make the awful past a part of my present self.

So, when I remember the past, it's just that. The past. Well, at least for a

few of the memories. Many are still repressed, and we have a ways to go. But

I can see the progress with those few memories.

By facing the memories in counseling--some of it is reliving it. The purpose

of reliving it, though, is so you can reprocess it. Then, we were scared, so

scared of our fada/nada, and we weren't allowed to feel our own emotions for

fear of further angering our fada/nada. But in counseling, our counselors

can help us figure out what exactly we feel about it. It's validating, by

knowing that we indeed can feel what we feel, and not what fada or nada

tells us to feel.

I'm still figuring out the counseling thing. I'm doing a mix of EMDR and

talk counseling, and both work well. I couldn't do EMDR all the time, and

talk counseling helps me to pinpoint the areas that I want to work on.

But I hope my experiences help you a little bit I'm glad you are working

towards healing. As my counselor said, " it's not to pretend it didn't

happen. It DID happen. It's sad. It's awful, " but rather, it's to help us to

understand ourselves better, and to get some skills for working with our

memories.

Holly

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:18 PM, coalminersdotter <coalminersdotter@...

> wrote:

> **

>

> Hello Group,

>

> I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face issues

> from my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would love to

> return to the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As my

> therapist says, though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So onward I

> progress on this unpleasant journey.

>

> Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible nightmares.

> I am convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me in a

> horrible way and will continue to hold power over me until I face them.

>

> Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with mistrust

> of the whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about that I

> can't change anyway and would rather forget.

>

> Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and how it

> occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me and

> holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

> experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am overreacting or

> hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I am

> aware of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and spiritually

> abusive. I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in the

> deepest part of my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better now

> and mostly just pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was

> occurred during my infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a

> functioning alcholic and divorced. I can guess I was left alone and

> neglected from reports of physical problems and hearing loss from lack of

> medical care. But I have an almost " memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps

> shaking me when I cried or something along those lines? That would make

> sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR

> UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL REASONING? I'm not even

> convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it with all my heart-

> especially for the good of my children.

>

> Sincere Thanks,

> Coal Miner's Daughter

>

July 8, 2011

For me the point has been 1) having my pain validated by a real mother (my

therapist often tells me what she would do with her own kids if an issue

came up that I have been through) and 2) leaving the past behind and putting

it to bed - letting go of feeling like satan because I turned my back on my

poor poor poor mother 3) realizing that I was abused and it WAS THAT BAD 4)

the most important - learning skills to be a real person in the real world -

not letting people walk on me, identifying safe people and learning to

assertively say what I think and 5) learning to like myself.

I still have on more huge task - I want to acheive some kind of mastery over

my physical pain, which I believe has roots in my childhood abuse. I've not

made even the slightest bit of progress there. But I have learned to face

conflict and stick up for myself.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Holly Lipschultz <

hollymichellebyers@...> wrote:

> I've been in counseling in fits and starts for the same reasons as you--and

> recently have resolved to do it for the sake of my future children. So,

> I've

> been in regular counseling for a little over 2 months now. And already I

> feel like I'm making progress--and by progress, I mean that I'm learning

> skills for coping with the past. I tend to ruminate over things, which

> causes me to feel sad and depressed and argumentative, which only makes me

> ruminate even more. But with counseling, so far, I've learned to recognize

> some of the rumination, and set it aside. It used to constantly sit on my

> brain and interfere with enjoyment of daily activities. But now, I can say

> to myself, " Don't. Not right now. Set it aside so you can talk about it in

> counseling. "

>

> It's brought up a few memories that I've repressed, during counseling. And

> by reprocessing the memories, it's able to lose some of its sting. There

> are

> some things I don't want to go to yet because it holds such powerful fear

> over me. But some of the lesser memories that we've started with, and the

> ones I'm ready to face again---I can think about it objectively. Instead of

> constantly trying to repress my memories, it's become a part of me. And by

> making it a part of me, I can put it in the past, where it belongs. And by

> putting it in the past, I can live in the present, and go to the future,

> without having to constantly make the awful past a part of my present self.

>

> So, when I remember the past, it's just that. The past. Well, at least for

> a

> few of the memories. Many are still repressed, and we have a ways to go.

> But

> I can see the progress with those few memories.

>

> By facing the memories in counseling--some of it is reliving it. The

> purpose

> of reliving it, though, is so you can reprocess it. Then, we were scared,

> so

> scared of our fada/nada, and we weren't allowed to feel our own emotions

> for

> fear of further angering our fada/nada. But in counseling, our counselors

> can help us figure out what exactly we feel about it. It's validating, by

> knowing that we indeed can feel what we feel, and not what fada or nada

> tells us to feel.

>

> I'm still figuring out the counseling thing. I'm doing a mix of EMDR and

> talk counseling, and both work well. I couldn't do EMDR all the time, and

> talk counseling helps me to pinpoint the areas that I want to work on.

>

> But I hope my experiences help you a little bit I'm glad you are working

> towards healing. As my counselor said, " it's not to pretend it didn't

> happen. It DID happen. It's sad. It's awful, " but rather, it's to help us

> to

> understand ourselves better, and to get some skills for working with our

> memories.

>

> Holly

>

> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:18 PM, coalminersdotter <

> coalminersdotter@...

> > wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> > Hello Group,

> >

> > I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face

> issues

> > from my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would love

> to

> > return to the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As my

> > therapist says, though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So onward

> I

> > progress on this unpleasant journey.

> >

> > Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible

> nightmares.

> > I am convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me in a

> > horrible way and will continue to hold power over me until I face them.

> >

> > Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with mistrust

> > of the whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about that

> I

> > can't change anyway and would rather forget.

> >

> > Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and how

> it

> > occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me and

> > holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

> > experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am overreacting

> or

> > hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I am

> > aware of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and

> spiritually

> > abusive. I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in the

> > deepest part of my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better

> now

> > and mostly just pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was

> > occurred during my infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a

> > functioning alcholic and divorced. I can guess I was left alone and

> > neglected from reports of physical problems and hearing loss from lack of

> > medical care. But I have an almost " memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps

> > shaking me when I cried or something along those lines? That would make

> > sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR

> > UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL REASONING? I'm not

> even

> > convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it with all my heart-

> > especially for the good of my children.

> >

> > Sincere Thanks,

> > Coal Miner's Daughter

> >

>

July 8, 2011

Dear Coalminersdotter,

Congratulations upon your resolve ! This is a courageous and very tough

decision to undertake.

As wounded and terrified children of BPDs, we create little places of

safety for ourselves, that allow us to function somewhat normally within a

very disfunctional reality. We have to translate ourselves between the

reality created by the BPD, and the world that most of the rest of the

people around us live in. In order to survive the instability of the BPD,

we may have to create fictions that explain or justify their strange,

inconstant, cruel or sometimes criminal behaviors, in order that we,

ourselves, may survive to adulthood. Both our physical survival, and our

emotional survival may depend upon these fictions.

In example, one friend with a Nada shared the repeated experience of

destroyed dolls, attributed to the " jealousy " of an angry pet cat, rather

than the anger and jealousy of her Nada. Once, when in an altercation

between Nada and child, a doll was broken by the Nada, and the child was

beaten until she said that *she herself *had broken the beloved doll !

This is, in my estimation the most toxic and criminal act visited upon

children of BPDs, the act of forcing a child to *collude against them-self *.

To deface them-self. To lie about reality. It is sadistic, spiritually

criminal, and just plain wrong. I think this is often the source of our

nightmares, and daytime fears. Telling the truth about a Nada, even to

ourselves, even as adults, is really really hard, scary, and it hurts like

hell. But, the truth is always there, whispering to us, begging for

recognition.

I don't think you will be digging up stuff " just to get upset about " I

think, that, as your nightmares are trying to tell you, you are already

upset. You are so very right, you can't change these things, but you can

bring them out into the light, where they loose their power to steal your

sleep and peace of mind. This is the gift and blessing that counseling

brings. The validation of our experience, the strength to face the

realities, and the resolution to make a good life for ourselves regardless.

In reading your post, I hear some very wise, strong and loving part of

yourself trying so hard to resolve the pain, and sorrow, confusion and

grief experienced by a tender and vulnerable child, who should have been

protected, nurtured, and encouraged in meaningful ways. Your life*

can*blossom, the nightmares, and daytime fears

* can* stop.

I don't know if you will ever be able to be around your Nada without

experiencing the horrible nightmares later... that was my deepest, fondest

longing, too. I have finally accepted that there were/are some very good

reasons for those fears and dreams, and that my own physical, emotional and

spiritual safety and well-being are best preserved and maintained by no

contact.

I have been in deep grief for about four months after finally coming this

realization. I am however, no longer in fear, panic or having free-floating

anxiety attacks. I spent several weeks crying " I want my mommy. " like an

abandoned child, which, at the ripe old age of fifty something, I still

was/am. However, in finally facing the wisdom of my nightmares, I have

reclaimed myself, and am refusing to allow myself to be further harmed.

The realization and acceptance that my Nada both loved and hated me and

was willing to harm me, hurts and has confused me for years. Her ability to

appear to others as a good mother, further confused and wounded me. I so

wanted her to love me, that I was willing to lie even to myself. I thought

there must be something wrong with me , that she couldn't. I was wrong. I

deserved better, so did you, so do we all.

My own mother referred to me as being " hypersensitive " for as long as

I can remember. This is a favorite tactic of BPDs, used to invalidate our

experiences, and cover their abuses. If a Bpd steps on your foot, they are

pissed off at *you* for saying " ouch " ! It has taken me *tens* of years to

acknowledge that I have the right to say that I was/am hurt.

* Yes, you

absolutely can heal

*

Counseling is hard work, and a hero's journey. You have found many,

many, wonderful, strong, wise , good natured and good humored companions to

travel with, here at Oz, 24 hrs. a day I applaud your courage, the thoughts

and prayers, and good wishes of many, many, people will be with you, as we

travel together ! ! !

I will be thinking about you, and holding you in the light. May all

that is strong, and good and brave and true rise up within you, and around

you like armour, like a shield, like a light, and protect you, and bring

you peace, and help you see.

Best Regards, Sunspot

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:18 PM, coalminersdotter <coalminersdotter@...