What is the goal of counseling?

[Guest guest]

I'm right there with you, sister! I get strength and validation here too. Glad

you are wakiing up to a brighter day.

Carla

>

> Thank you so much Carla.

>

> I do have the sense of this process having a life of its own. It is like a

train that I can't stop. This whole upheaval was not something I set up or

planned. Yet, I would not go back if I could.

>

> Reading these posts is like putting arrows into my pouch and arming up for the

battle. I understand that part of it is pressing flowers into a memory book to

carry along with me. There will be fights and surrenders, hard times, anger and

sweet sorrow. There are also many beautiful, soft flowers of peace and joy

along this path - deeper joy and well-being that I could ever imagine.

>

> I will see if people in my world can respect boundaries and to what extent.

And I will remember to " be kind to myself in other ways as a reward " for walking

through this fire.

>

> After reading this morning, I'm like, " Yeah, let's do this thing! I'm ready.

Hoo yah master chief. " I like fighting movies if you haven't caught the drift.

G.I. Jane changed my life.

>

> So I was planning to go to some rummage sales this morning and now feel that

this time was more valuable than the bargains I would have found. I do like

going later in the day sometimes when people are tired of the whole thing and

start dropping prices. There is a point at which one thinks to oneself, " Okay,

so I'm going to have to pack all this stuff back up and haul it to Goodwill. "

Then they're like: " Just take it -or- you can have the whole box for $5. " I

never ask for these deals. My personal issue - I feel it is a little insulting

if their price is already like 10% of a Wal-Mart clearance price. I think I

will own my thriftiness though. That may have been an effect of life with Mom,

but it's one I like. And I enjoy talking with people and getting the kids out.

Everyone has fun. And who doesn't enjoy a new toy for 50 cents!

>

> THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ADULT CHILDREN GROUP!!! THE DEPTH OF MY

GRATITUDE CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN WORDS. LITERALLY. I AM ARMED FOR BATTLE AND

AT THE SAME TIME SOMEHOW SOFTENED FROM THIS EXPERIENCE. I'M LOVIN' IT!!!

>

> Coal Miner's Daughter

>

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My mother for

years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims she's a

psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make sense now!!!! They

do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid to " CONTROL " us.

My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a " princess " in a past

life!!!!

N

> Hey Girlscout,

>

> I realized in reading your post that my nada took even this help from me.

Along with the lack of support and attacking throughout my life, she play

" therapist " with me during one of her phases. She got involved in reading about

" ingrams " which are defined as events in childhood during which we program a

certain belief or response that can limit us in the future. (That belief

theoretically helps us survive at the time as a child.)

>

> She used to try to make me do " anger work " when I was about 11 years old. I

hated those " sessions " because I had to come up with something to get out of it

or it would go on for literally hours. She used us daughters as clients and

guinea pigs for many amateur pursuits.

>

> For example, she got into transchanneling spirits but did not do it anywhere

or for a job. She also was an amateur psychic and used us to practice on. It now

makes sense that she had interests and wanted to do things, but her anxiety and

hermitism kept her from being able to interact with others or go out in the real

world. Also, the psychic work and spiritual stuff gave her a lot of power over

us. That would have been very appealing for a young BPD mother.

>

> I can see now, in thinking about this, that SHE MADE ME HATE THE VERY THERAPY

THAT COULD NOW HELP FREE ME FROM HER ABUSE. As much as I hate to think about

this stuff, dialogue and processing do yield immediate and significant results.

>

> Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> p.s. I remember you were looking into counseling programs as a career

possibility. Did you decide to go back for classes or continue in your current

line of work?

>

> p.p.s. I think people with clarity and insight can help many whether they do

that in a professional or personal way for people in their daily lives.

>

>

> > >

> > > > **

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello Group,

> > > >

> > > > I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face

> > > issues

> > > > from my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would love

> > > to

> > > > return to the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As my

> > > > therapist says, though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So

onward

> > > I

> > > > progress on this unpleasant journey.

> > > >

> > > > Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible

> > > nightmares.

> > > > I am convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me in

a

> > > > horrible way and will continue to hold power over me until I face them.

> > > >

> > > > Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with

mistrust

> > > > of the whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about

that

> > > I

> > > > can't change anyway and would rather forget.

> > > >

> > > > Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and how

> > > it

> > > > occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me

and

> > > > holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

> > > > experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am

overreacting

> > > or

> > > > hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I am

> > > > aware of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and

> > > spiritually

> > > > abusive. I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in

the

> > > > deepest part of my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better

> > > now

> > > > and mostly just pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was

> > > > occurred during my infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a

> > > > functioning alcholic and divorced. I can guess I was left alone and

> > > > neglected from reports of physical problems and hearing loss from lack

of

> > > > medical care. But I have an almost " memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps

> > > > shaking me when I cried or something along those lines? That would make

> > > > sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR

> > > > UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL REASONING? I'm not

> > > even

> > > > convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it with all my heart-

> > > > especially for the good of my children.

> > > >

> > > > Sincere Thanks,

> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant Christian. She

never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism, other

religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been consistent

and stable.

So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or always a bpd

trait or behavior.

On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is #3:

" Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of

self " which could manifest as trying many different experiences such as moving

frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with different sexual

orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with different belief

systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's case, probably

never finding it.)

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > > **

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Group,

> > > > >

> > > > > I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face

> > > > issues

> > > > > from my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would

love

> > > > to

> > > > > return to the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As

my

> > > > > therapist says, though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So

onward

> > > > I

> > > > > progress on this unpleasant journey.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible

> > > > nightmares.

> > > > > I am convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me

in a

> > > > > horrible way and will continue to hold power over me until I face

them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with

mistrust

> > > > > of the whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about

that

> > > > I

> > > > > can't change anyway and would rather forget.

> > > > >

> > > > > Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and

how

> > > > it

> > > > > occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me

and

> > > > > holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

> > > > > experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am

overreacting

> > > > or

> > > > > hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I

am

> > > > > aware of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and

> > > > spiritually

> > > > > abusive. I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in

the

> > > > > deepest part of my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better

> > > > now

> > > > > and mostly just pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was

> > > > > occurred during my infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a

> > > > > functioning alcholic and divorced. I can guess I was left alone and

> > > > > neglected from reports of physical problems and hearing loss from lack

of

> > > > > medical care. But I have an almost " memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps

> > > > > shaking me when I cried or something along those lines? That would

make

> > > > > sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR

> > > > > UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL REASONING? I'm not

> > > > even

> > > > > convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it with all my heart-

> > > > > especially for the good of my children.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincere Thanks,

> > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

My nada is kind of a mix between Annie's and N's. She has always been pretty

stable with her religion and was never into any sort of psychic/tarot card

stuff, but she did use religion as a means to control us kids and give herself

" powers. " All in God's name, of course (ha).

She used to tell me she had prophetic dreams or visions, or that she had various

" gifts " (healing, speaking in tongues, etc.). Funny how these " gifts " were never

used for anyone else's benefit. Sometimes she would be mad at me for things I

did in a " prophetic " dream she had or I'd end up being punished for something I

never actually did because " God showed her ahead of time " so she could correct

me. Once she packed up all 7 of us and made us leave the house because she'd

dreamed her stepfather came to visit us with a gun and was going to shoot us

all. (he lives over 800 miles away, has very little money, is in poor health and

probably wouldn't make it that far in a car y himself)

Overall though it what it really boiled down to was control. To her there is no

greater authority than God, so if she can make herself his mouthpiece than no

one can refute her.

Subject: Re: What is the goal of counseling?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 11:23 AM

My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant Christian.

She never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism, other

religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been consistent

and stable.

So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or always a bpd

trait or behavior.

On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is #3:

" Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of

self " which could manifest as trying many different experiences such as moving

frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with different sexual

orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with different belief

systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's case, probably

never finding it.)

-Annie

>

> Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My mother for

years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims she's a

psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make sense now!!!! They

do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid to " CONTROL " us.

My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a " princess " in a past

life!!!!

>

> N

[Guest guest]

Hey , go grab a book called Spiritual Abuse. It will change your

world.

> **

>

>

> My nada is kind of a mix between Annie's and N's. She has always been

> pretty stable with her religion and was never into any sort of psychic/tarot

> card stuff, but she did use religion as a means to control us kids and give

> herself " powers. " All in God's name, of course (ha).

>

> She used to tell me she had prophetic dreams or visions, or that she had

> various " gifts " (healing, speaking in tongues, etc.). Funny how these

> " gifts " were never used for anyone else's benefit. Sometimes she would be

> mad at me for things I did in a " prophetic " dream she had or I'd end up

> being punished for something I never actually did because " God showed her

> ahead of time " so she could correct me. Once she packed up all 7 of us and

> made us leave the house because she'd dreamed her stepfather came to visit

> us with a gun and was going to shoot us all. (he lives over 800 miles away,

> has very little money, is in poor health and probably wouldn't make it that

> far in a car y himself)

>

> Overall though it what it really boiled down to was control. To her there

> is no greater authority than God, so if she can make herself his mouthpiece

> than no one can refute her.

> y A

>

>

>

> Subject: Re: What is the goal of counseling?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 11:23 AM

>

>

>

>

> My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant Christian.

> She never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism, other

> religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been

> consistent and stable.

>

> So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

> spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or always a

> bpd trait or behavior.

>

> On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is #3:

> " Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or

> sense of self " which could manifest as trying many different experiences

> such as moving frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with different

> sexual orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with different

> belief systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's case,

> probably never finding it.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

>

> > Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My mother

> for years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims

> she's a psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make sense

> now!!!! They do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid to

> " CONTROL " us. My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a

> " princess " in a past life!!!!

>

> >

>

> > N

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Girlscout, thanks for the suggestion! I can't seem to find the exact book

you're talking about. Do you remember who wrote it?

>

>

> Subject: Re: What is the goal of counseling?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 11:23 AM

>

>

>

>

> My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant Christian.

> She never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism, other

> religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been

> consistent and stable.

>

> So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

> spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or always a

> bpd trait or behavior.

>

> On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is #3:

> " Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or

> sense of self " which could manifest as trying many different experiences

> such as moving frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with different

> sexual orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with different

> belief systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's case,

> probably never finding it.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

>

> > Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My mother

> for years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims

> she's a psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make sense

> now!!!! They do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid to

> " CONTROL " us. My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a

> " princess " in a past life!!!!

>

> >

>

> > N

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know what, I loaned my copy out. But I think it was called Spiritual

Abuse with a yellow cover. Karla, who might be reading this right now is the

person who suggested it to me. Sorry I can't look. but its a great topic to

research too. After reading I found out that there was absolutly zero

spirituality in my upbringing, they just used their religion to attack,

guilt and manipulate. I hope not all religions are like mine was. I really

really really do. But I've been burned. . .

> **

>

>

> Hey Girlscout, thanks for the suggestion! I can't seem to find the exact

> book you're talking about. Do you remember who wrote it?

>

>

> >

> >

> > Subject: Re: What is the goal of counseling?

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 11:23 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant

> Christian.

> > She never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism,

> other

> > religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been

> > consistent and stable.

> >

> > So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

> > spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or always

> a

> > bpd trait or behavior.

> >

> > On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is

> #3:

> > " Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or

> > sense of self " which could manifest as trying many different experiences

> > such as moving frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with

> different

> > sexual orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with

> different

> > belief systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's

> case,

> > probably never finding it.)

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My

> mother

> > for years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims

> > she's a psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make

> sense

> > now!!!! They do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid

> to

> > " CONTROL " us. My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a

> > " princess " in a past life!!!!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > N

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Until you can locate the book, there is a website set up specifically for the

emotional support of the adult daughters of parents who are spiritually abusive,

and misuse their religion/misuse The Bible to control and manipulate their adult

daughters.

Here's the link:

http://www.luke173ministries.org/

-Annie

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My

> > mother

> > > for years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims

> > > she's a psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make

> > sense

> > > now!!!! They do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their bid

> > to

> > > " CONTROL " us. My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was a

> > > " princess " in a past life!!!!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > N

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Being the librarian geek I am, I decided to take a look. This is my best

guess as to what that book was...

http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation/dp/0764201379/re\

f=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1311031555 & sr=1-1

It's an update to the 1991 book, which had a white cover.

You can find it at a nearest library to you using this link:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/subtle-power-of-spiritual-abuse/oclc/61115485 & refe\

rer=brief_results

Girlscout, am I on the right track?

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> You know what, I loaned my copy out. But I think it was called Spiritual

> Abuse with a yellow cover. Karla, who might be reading this right now is

> the

> person who suggested it to me. Sorry I can't look. but its a great topic to

> research too. After reading I found out that there was absolutly zero

> spirituality in my upbringing, they just used their religion to attack,

> guilt and manipulate. I hope not all religions are like mine was. I really

> really really do. But I've been burned. . .

>

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hey Girlscout, thanks for the suggestion! I can't seem to find the exact

> > book you're talking about. Do you remember who wrote it?

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: What is the goal of counseling?

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > > Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 11:23 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada is very bpd, but has always been a " vanilla " Protestant

> > Christian.

> > > She never got into things like psychic readings, tarot, spiritualism,

> > other

> > > religions, etc. Her religious belief is one area in which she's been

> > > consistent and stable.

> > >

> > > So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that interest in psychic readings,

> > > spiritualism, trying out various religions, etc., is definitely or

> always

> > a

> > > bpd trait or behavior.

> > >

> > > On the other hand, its true that one of the diagnostic traits of bpd is

> > #3:

> > > " Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or

> > > sense of self " which could manifest as trying many different

> experiences

> > > such as moving frequently, having many lovers, experimenting with

> > different

> > > sexual orientations, trying various drugs, or experimenting with

> > different

> > > belief systems in order to discover one's true self (but in the bpd's

> > case,

> > > probably never finding it.)

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regarding psychics etc. It seems it is DEFINITELY a BPD thing! My

> > mother

> > > for years has been " reading " tarrot cards and going to psychics, claims

> > > she's a psychic herself and has powers. This is all starting to make

> > sense

> > > now!!!! They do like to pretend to have powers others don't, in their

> bid

> > to

> > > " CONTROL " us. My God, she even got into " past lives " and claims she was

> a

> > > " princess " in a past life!!!!

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > N

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Coalminersdotter,

Is the movie you're thinking about Salt with Angelina Jolie?

I watched that movie with my dad, and he and I had a hard time seeing it as

anything more than an action movie because it was so creepy to us. Maybe the

fact that my nada is at least a 4th generation nada and was training my sister

to be the next one...

> >

> > > **

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello Group,

> > >

> > > I started counseling a couple of weeks ago and have resolved to face

issues

> > > from my childhood as is advised. I am confused, however, and would love to

> > > return to the land of denial where I lived happily for many years. As my

> > > therapist says, though, " You can't unlearn something you know. " So onward

I

> > > progress on this unpleasant journey.

> > >

> > > Since beginning, I have had many sleepless nights and terrible nightmares.

> > > I am convinced that events from my childhood have deeply affected me in a

> > > horrible way and will continue to hold power over me until I face them.

> > >

> > > Yet, I don't understand the counseling process and struggle with mistrust

> > > of the whole idea. It seems like digging up stuff to get upset about that

I

> > > can't change anyway and would rather forget.

> > >

> > > Could anyone tell me what the " healing " is that people speak of and how it

> > > occurs? Will I actually be able to overcome whatever is wrong with me and

> > > holding me back? Could I be around my mother for part of a day without

> > > experiencing horrific nightmares afterward? I feel like I am overreacting

or

> > > hypersensitive because she did not abuse me in any direct way that I am

> > > aware of. She was controlling, manipulative, and emotionally and

spiritually

> > > abusive. I have a deep sense of her as " dangerous " and even " evil " in the

> > > deepest part of my being but am not sure why. She seems so much better now

> > > and mostly just pitiful and sick. It seems like whatever the worst was

> > > occurred during my infancy when she was working nights at a bar, a

> > > functioning alcholic and divorced. I can guess I was left alone and

> > > neglected from reports of physical problems and hearing loss from lack of

> > > medical care. But I have an almost " memory " of her hurting me. Perhaps

> > > shaking me when I cried or something along those lines? That would make

> > > sense. BUT COULD I EVER POSSIBLY HEAL FROM SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW OR

> > > UNDERSTAND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE AWARENESS OR VERBAL REASONING? I'm not

even

> > > convinced I can heal at all. Although I long for it with all my heart-

> > > especially for the good of my children.

> > >

> > > Sincere Thanks,

> > > Coal Miner's Daughter

> > >

> > > _F_._,_.___

> > > Reply to

sender<coalminersdotter@?subject=Re%3A%20What%20is%20the%20goal%20of%20counselin\

g%3F>| Reply

> > > to

group<WTOAdultChildren1 ?subject=Re%3A%20What%20is%20the%20goal%2\

0of%20counseling%3F>| Reply

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