Nada and Boundaries - plus how crazy can they get?

[Guest guest]

N,

My mother took me out of school when I was 11 and my brother was 6, in order to

homeschool us. There are a few things you as a mom should know about

homeschooling:

1) it will be more work than you think. Even though your child is only in

kindergarten, you have your younger two kids to supervise. They won't always

match the daily schooling schedule that you set up!

2) you will need to spend the time to research curricula. Unless you go through

the local school system. But from what you write, it sounds like they're not too

keen on the idea. When I was homeschooled in the eighties in CA, I was afraid

every day that CPS would come to the door, declaring that we were being

neglected due to not being in school and then hauled off to foster care. Never

happened that way, but I didn't breathe easy until I graduated.

3) It sounds to me like your fears about your child crying in school are based

on what you may have gone through as an abused little girl going off to school.

Generally speaking, school is a very positive, social experience for kids raised

in normal homes. My mom never sent me to preschool, but after working at one for

a year, I really wished I could have gone to preschool. The kids really loved

the interaction with each other and loved to come each day.

To sum up, don't base your decision on your own negative experiences. Your child

is being raised in a completely different environment than you were and will

have an entirely different response to school than you did. Also be aware of the

amount of work involved in homeschooling! Sending him to school will give you a

3-4 hr break to focus on your other kids, and if you swap childcare with other

moms, you may even get a total break from kids for those 3 hours!

Joy

>>I have 2 months left to figure out the homeschooling thing - where I live by 6

children have to be in school legally- he's still 5 but EVERYONE around us has

sent their kids to school by age 2 and they look at me like I'm an alien!

[Guest guest]

, my condolences on your loss, but I am very offended by your statement.

You don't know what you are talking about, telling people to put up with abusive

behavior--not just physically abusive but mentally abusive. I cannot believe

that someone who's mother suffered from BPD would actually come on here and tell

others that they should suffer what I and others on here have suffered just so

they can be beaten, verbally and emotionally abused by someone who had the

biological facility to be a mother.

Again, my condolences for your loss, but I will not miss my nada at all when she

is gone because she was never there and she is already dead to me as a mother. I

will feel sorry for her that she could not overcome her illness. But to suggest

that I would miss someone abusing me is laughable.

It is so insulting to have someone say what you have said. I understand that you

miss your mother, but there are those of us on this board who have been sexually

molested, humiliated, and have PTSD and other psychological problems from

parents with BPD whom you are suggesting we just " put up with " .

Everyone, I apologize for my bluntness, and if I have offended anyone, my

apologies. But this post feels very FLYING MONKEYish and I just needed to stand

up for us all. We will not be abused because someone is a " mother " , and we have

the right to have healthy boundaries. There may be regrets when they are gone.

But there is no way I will feel guilty for protecting myself against abusive,

destructive behavior. And none of you should feel badly for doing so either.

>

> > N -

> >

> > I just wanted to add that both of my brothers (30 and 25) have a history of

being with women who are either full blown BPD or eerily close to it.

> >

> > My oldest brother swears that " all women are nuts " despite me telling him

over and over its just the ones he has been with. This last chick was

certifiable for an institution and after about 6 breakups/back together he said

he might as well work it out with her because all women were crazy like that.

> > Uh no, brother - they are NOT!

> >

> > My youngest brother, mostly same story. And I see the way they react with my

mom reflected in their relationships. The youngest brother can't get the courage

to " break up " with the current looney he is dating, even though he knows its

right.

> >

> > Its sad. They are just coming to terms with my mom's illness and I'm hoping

as they begin healing from unhealthy ties to her it will give them the strength

to break and stay away from unhealthy ties with other women.

> >

> > F

> >

> > -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, yes this is very common, my dad's wife was seen circling the lawn in the

middle of the night having arguments with people that weren't there. The final

straw was when she walked over to the neighbors house with moist wipes in a

baggie and asked them to call the police because someone had contaminated them

in attempt to hurt her. This was not so bad. Two years ago she did things like

trying to hang new drapery rods in the middle of the night and taking apart the

furnace to " clean " it. its a miracle she didn't blow up the house or kill

everyone with carbon monoxide poisoning. This is serious stuff. Scary.

Carla

> >

> > Annie,

> >

> > has your nada been evaluated for bi=polar, the type that comes on in later

life? My dad's wife was acting like what you are describing. She was

misdiagnosed then finally got it right. She did some weird and even frightening

things before getting the right diagnosis.

> >

[Guest guest]

F-

Same with my brother. After letting nada guilt him into moving home and

" helping " her when husband #2 was dying he ended up going first LC then NC. Not

an easy feat when you live in a small town. He has given up on dating. EVERY

girl he has dated since he moved there has had one mental illness or another.

One was an uncompliant bi-polar, one accused him of date rape after he broke up

with her for refusing to tell her family about them, one was trying to use him

as a way to leave a bad relationship with her live in girlfriend who then

started calling and leaving threatening messages on his VM about messing around

with " her girl " One just wanted to hang in bars all the time and wanted him to

go all the time. I tell him he needs to get into therapy to figure out how to

turn off the psycho magnet ie: his mommy issues.

Carla

>

> N -

>

> I just wanted to add that both of my brothers (30 and 25) have a history of

being with women who are either full blown BPD or eerily close to it.

>

> My oldest brother swears that " all women are nuts " despite me telling him over

and over its just the ones he has been with. This last chick was certifiable for

an institution and after about 6 breakups/back together he said he might as well

work it out with her because all women were crazy like that.

> Uh no, brother - they are NOT!

>

> My youngest brother, mostly same story. And I see the way they react with my

mom reflected in their relationships. The youngest brother can't get the courage

to " break up " with the current looney he is dating, even though he knows its

right.

>

>

> Its sad. They are just coming to terms with my mom's illness and I'm hoping as

they begin healing from unhealthy ties to her it will give them the strength to

break and stay away from unhealthy ties with other women.

>

>

> F

[Guest guest]

Thank You , Very Well Said!!

~~Velvet_Tears74~~

Whatever it takes.....

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of afldancer

Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:26 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Nada and Boundaries - plus how crazy can

they get?

, my condolences on your loss, but I am very offended by your

statement. You don't know what you are talking about, telling people to put

up with abusive behavior--not just physically abusive but mentally abusive.

I cannot believe that someone who's mother suffered from BPD would actually

come on here and tell others that they should suffer what I and others on

here have suffered just so they can be beaten, verbally and emotionally

abused by someone who had the biological facility to be a mother.

Again, my condolences for your loss, but I will not miss my nada at all when

she is gone because she was never there and she is already dead to me as a

mother. I will feel sorry for her that she could not overcome her illness.

But to suggest that I would miss someone abusing me is laughable.

It is so insulting to have someone say what you have said. I understand that

you miss your mother, but there are those of us on this board who have been

sexually molested, humiliated, and have PTSD and other psychological

problems from parents with BPD whom you are suggesting we just " put up

with " .

Everyone, I apologize for my bluntness, and if I have offended anyone, my

apologies. But this post feels very FLYING MONKEYish and I just needed to

stand up for us all. We will not be abused because someone is a " mother " ,

and we have the right to have healthy boundaries. There may be regrets when

they are gone. But there is no way I will feel guilty for protecting myself

against abusive, destructive behavior. And none of you should feel badly for

doing so either.

>

> > N -

> >

> > I just wanted to add that both of my brothers (30 and 25) have a history

of being with women who are either full blown BPD or eerily close to it.

> >

> > My oldest brother swears that " all women are nuts " despite me telling

him over and over its just the ones he has been with. This last chick was

certifiable for an institution and after about 6 breakups/back together he

said he might as well work it out with her because all women were crazy like

that.

> > Uh no, brother - they are NOT!

> >

> > My youngest brother, mostly same story. And I see the way they react

with my mom reflected in their relationships. The youngest brother can't get

the courage to " break up " with the current looney he is dating, even though

he knows its right.

> >

> > Its sad. They are just coming to terms with my mom's illness and I'm

hoping as they begin healing from unhealthy ties to her it will give them

the strength to break and stay away from unhealthy ties with other women.

> >

> > F

> >

> > -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Joy, your advice makes COMPLETE sense - I feel so much better

sending my son to school after having read what you said - definitely he is

being raised in a normal home and will probably LOVE school - I probably have

nothing to worry about Yes, probably my fears about school have to do with me

not liking school much as a child - I remember though in teenage hood I LOVED

school, as home was so crazy and horrible, school was a great outlet for me!

Thank you all for taking away my fears regarding schooling!

Hugs,

N

>

> N,

> My mother took me out of school when I was 11 and my brother was 6, in order

to homeschool us. There are a few things you as a mom should know about

homeschooling:

> 1) it will be more work than you think. Even though your child is only in

kindergarten, you have your younger two kids to supervise. They won't always

match the daily schooling schedule that you set up!

> 2) you will need to spend the time to research curricula. Unless you go

through the local school system. But from what you write, it sounds like they're

not too keen on the idea. When I was homeschooled in the eighties in CA, I was

afraid every day that CPS would come to the door, declaring that we were being

neglected due to not being in school and then hauled off to foster care. Never

happened that way, but I didn't breathe easy until I graduated.

> 3) It sounds to me like your fears about your child crying in school are based

on what you may have gone through as an abused little girl going off to school.

Generally speaking, school is a very positive, social experience for kids raised

in normal homes. My mom never sent me to preschool, but after working at one for

a year, I really wished I could have gone to preschool. The kids really loved

the interaction with each other and loved to come each day.

>

> To sum up, don't base your decision on your own negative experiences. Your

child is being raised in a completely different environment than you were and

will have an entirely different response to school than you did. Also be aware

of the amount of work involved in homeschooling! Sending him to school will give

you a 3-4 hr break to focus on your other kids, and if you swap childcare with

other moms, you may even get a total break from kids for those 3 hours!

>

> Joy

>

> >>I have 2 months left to figure out the homeschooling thing - where I live by

6 children have to be in school legally- he's still 5 but EVERYONE around us has

sent their kids to school by age 2 and they look at me like I'm an alien!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Over-protecting your children is a form of control learned from the BPD. I

had a hard time too, just shook myself and said, " that's what your mother would

do...let him go. " And I did. My 3 sons are happy and very independent, but they

love us dearly and visit almost too often. You have to let your kids go if you

want them to come back. m

> Hey Annie,

>

> Thanks for the heads-up. The drinking has increased along with staying up all

night, so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of decline going on here. Dad passed

away a few months back, so it's been downhill since then.

>

> She's just now 60, so I figure this will drag out for some time. As for

delusional and paranoid, she might actually be better than before, but she's

certifiable if she answered truthfully to any doc.

>

> I appreciate the warning. I will be watching for that.

>

> Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> p.s. The strangest thing is how she is fairly sociable and gets along with

others when choosing to. So I tend to keep LC instead of NC. But I noticed the

strangest inconsistency the other day when I realized I have built my life

around things she said and taught me, but can clearly recognize the insanity in

so many areas. It finally occurred to me to question some of the foundational

things she taught as well. Those which are not general social norms or basics

truths must be discarded. I think that will be a good next step. (I feel so

stupid, though, realizing I have been picking and choosing what of her craziness

to believe, like anything she says could be of merit.) Heaven help us all.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

, I don't htink you will find much support for your view that all

mothers should be cherished.

This a group of people who have been badly damaged by a parent (usually a

mother) and we are fighting for our lives.

I haven't had contact with my mother in more than 8 years. I do not miss

her, and being free of her has set me free and brought me joy I would never

have experienced.

And back to the original part of this thread - candy for breakfast!!! What

the hell!!!! Who does that???

Girlscout

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Maureen Kelley wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi, Over-protecting your children is a form of control learned from the

> BPD. I had a hard time too, just shook myself and said, " that's what your

> mother would do...let him go. " And I did. My 3 sons are happy and very

> independent, but they love us dearly and visit almost too often. You have to

> let your kids go if you want them to come back. m

>

>

>

>

> > Hey Annie,

> >

> > Thanks for the heads-up. The drinking has increased along with staying up

> all night, so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of decline going on here. Dad

> passed away a few months back, so it's been downhill since then.

> >

> > She's just now 60, so I figure this will drag out for some time. As for

> delusional and paranoid, she might actually be better than before, but she's

> certifiable if she answered truthfully to any doc.

> >

> > I appreciate the warning. I will be watching for that.

> >

> > Coal Miner's Daughter

> >

> > p.s. The strangest thing is how she is fairly sociable and gets along

> with others when choosing to. So I tend to keep LC instead of NC. But I

> noticed the strangest inconsistency the other day when I realized I have

> built my life around things she said and taught me, but can clearly

> recognize the insanity in so many areas. It finally occurred to me to

> question some of the foundational things she taught as well. Those which are

> not general social norms or basics truths must be discarded. I think that

> will be a good next step. (I feel so stupid, though, realizing I have been

> picking and choosing what of her craziness to believe, like anything she

> says could be of merit.) Heaven help us all.

> >

> > -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks M,

Actually my Mom was overprotective, but in a wierd way, she didn't seem to be

so! Contradictions.

I agree with you completely, but my kids are still too young for me to think

about that yet - I do plan on giving them lots of space as they grow older.

N

> Hi, Over-protecting your children is a form of control learned from the BPD. I

had a hard time too, just shook myself and said, " that's what your mother would

do...let him go. " And I did. My 3 sons are happy and very independent, but they

love us dearly and visit almost too often. You have to let your kids go if you

want them to come back. m

>

>

>

> > Hey Annie,

> >

> > Thanks for the heads-up. The drinking has increased along with staying up

all night, so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of decline going on here. Dad passed

away a few months back, so it's been downhill since then.

> >

> > She's just now 60, so I figure this will drag out for some time. As for

delusional and paranoid, she might actually be better than before, but she's

certifiable if she answered truthfully to any doc.

> >

> > I appreciate the warning. I will be watching for that.

> >

> > Coal Miner's Daughter

> >

> > p.s. The strangest thing is how she is fairly sociable and gets along with

others when choosing to. So I tend to keep LC instead of NC. But I noticed the

strangest inconsistency the other day when I realized I have built my life

around things she said and taught me, but can clearly recognize the insanity in

so many areas. It finally occurred to me to question some of the foundational

things she taught as well. Those which are not general social norms or basics

truths must be discarded. I think that will be a good next step. (I feel so

stupid, though, realizing I have been picking and choosing what of her craziness

to believe, like anything she says could be of merit.) Heaven help us all.

> >

> > -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its a gradual process, the idea of teaching a child to think for himself, to

make wise decisions based on understanding and weighing the possible

consequences of a decision, to develop a sense of his own self, his own likes

and dislikes, tastes and opinions. Creating opportunities for the child to make

some choices and decisions will develop healthy confidence and self-esteem in

the child. I think that can only happen if the child is allowed to make some

choices for himself instead of having all choices and decisions made for him.

Even very small children can be given the opportunity to make very limited,

specific choices when no bad outcome is possible.

For example, you select two outfits that are OK for your child to wear that day,

and ask the child which one she would like to wear. You ask the child which toy

he would like to take with him in the car, or which of two cereals he would like

to have for breakfast that morning.

As the child gets older, you can introduce decisions he/she can make that

involve planning or delayed gratification, such as giving the child a piggy

bank, so she will understand the concept of spending all her money now on little

things, or that she can choose to save some of her money in the piggy bank over

time to buy a big thing.

Just my two cent's worth. That kind of parenting seemed to work for my younger

Sister when she was raising her boy. He turned out great!

And I have to give my nada credit for exposing me to the delayed gratification

idea by way of a piggy bank. I saved up my money to buy myself a riding toy: a

go-cart, when I was 9.

-Annie

> >

> > > Hey Annie,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the heads-up. The drinking has increased along with staying up

all night, so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of decline going on here. Dad passed

away a few months back, so it's been downhill since then.

> > >

> > > She's just now 60, so I figure this will drag out for some time. As for

delusional and paranoid, she might actually be better than before, but she's

certifiable if she answered truthfully to any doc.

> > >

> > > I appreciate the warning. I will be watching for that.

> > >

> > > Coal Miner's Daughter

> > >

> > > p.s. The strangest thing is how she is fairly sociable and gets along with

others when choosing to. So I tend to keep LC instead of NC. But I noticed the

strangest inconsistency the other day when I realized I have built my life

around things she said and taught me, but can clearly recognize the insanity in

so many areas. It finally occurred to me to question some of the foundational

things she taught as well. Those which are not general social norms or basics

truths must be discarded. I think that will be a good next step. (I feel so

stupid, though, realizing I have been picking and choosing what of her craziness

to believe, like anything she says could be of merit.) Heaven help us all.

> > >

> > > -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi , and to All,

, I'm so sorry for your losses, for they are many. Not just the

loss of your Nada, but the losses of all the potentialities that were

embodied within your relationship with her as long as she lived. Most

horribly and finally, you have lost the *potential *of hope for resolution,

hope that she might embrace you as the worthy and well loved child you

should have been. Hope that she would look at you with love in her eyes, and

hold you close, her lips against your forehead, her arms sheltering you, her

heart a safe and open shelter for your own.

That is all gone now. Most unfairly, most painfully, we all thought we saw

evidence that these things *could* have been, if we had only been " good

enough " children.

What I have realized recently is that I have been in a 50plus year process

of grieving what " could have been, ' the *potential* mother that, in

reality never was. I *though*t I lost my mother, when she finally abandoned

me, the year that my father died, but in truth I had lost whatever shards

of her, that were ever there, many, many years before.

I had fleeting moments of her, heard her sing, heard her crying in that

vast, empty, emotional warehouse of herself, and chased those glimpses and

sounds, gathering shreds and scraps of the fabric of herself, until I, too,

became lost and confused.

No matter whatever else she is, no matter whatever else she did, she is

also and will always be, my dearest love, my deepest wound, my most deeply

longed for, and beloved Nada, my beloved vampire, and as I have said before,

if allowing her to feed on me would heal her, bring her around to being a

normal warm, living mother, who could love me, cherish me, really *see *me,

or even *want* to see me as a person, then I would gladly and happily slice

off another piece of my " self, " and serve it to her on the good china.

But it won't.

She'll eat and run, and leave me to clean up, and bind my wounds as best

I can, until she needs to feed again.

I know I will be anguished when she passes out of the physical. But I'm in

anguish now too, still, again, always.

I will suffer the loss of hope, when it comes, as I suffer the presence of

hope now.

I want my mother.* Please* God, don't let her find me.

Sunspot

> **

>

>

> , my condolences on your loss, but I am very offended by your

> statement. You don't know what you are talking about, telling people to put

> up with abusive behavior--not just physically abusive but mentally abusive.

> I cannot believe that someone who's mother suffered from BPD would actually

> come on here and tell others that they should suffer what I and others on

> here have suffered just so they can be beaten, verbally and emotionally

> abused by someone who had the biological facility to be a mother.

>

> Again, my condolences for your loss, but I will not miss my nada at all

> when she is gone because she was never there and she is already dead to me

> as a mother. I will feel sorry for her that she could not overcome her

> illness. But to suggest that I would miss someone abusing me is laughable.

>

> It is so insulting to have someone say what you have said. I understand

> that you miss your mother, but there are those of us on this board who have

> been sexually molested, humiliated, and have PTSD and other psychological

> problems from parents with BPD whom you are suggesting we just " put up

> with " .

>

> Everyone, I apologize for my bluntness, and if I have offended anyone, my

> apologies. But this post feels very FLYING MONKEYish and I just needed to

> stand up for us all. We will not be abused because someone is a " mother " ,

> and we have the right to have healthy boundaries. There may be regrets when

> they are gone. But there is no way I will feel guilty for protecting myself

> against abusive, destructive behavior. And none of you should feel badly for

> doing so either.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > N -

> > >

> > > I just wanted to add that both of my brothers (30 and 25) have a

> history of being with women who are either full blown BPD or eerily close to

> it.

> > >

> > > My oldest brother swears that " all women are nuts " despite me telling

> him over and over its just the ones he has been with. This last chick was

> certifiable for an institution and after about 6 breakups/back together he

> said he might as well work it out with her because all women were crazy like

> that.

> > > Uh no, brother - they are NOT!

> > >

> > > My youngest brother, mostly same story. And I see the way they react

> with my mom reflected in their relationships. The youngest brother can't get

> the courage to " break up " with the current looney he is dating, even though

> he knows its right.

> > >

> > > Its sad. They are just coming to terms with my mom's illness and I'm

> hoping as they begin healing from unhealthy ties to her it will give them

> the strength to break and stay away from unhealthy ties with other women.

> > >

> > > F

> > >

> > > -

> >

> >