Entire borderline family????

[Guest guest]

Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

I had a thought.

Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

and I mean ALL the time.

If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

me, but they refused.

To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

something???

When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

heart. Still hurts.

Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

sexual liaisons ran rampant.

So - can an entire family be borderline?

[Guest guest]

I'm not an expert. I've only been familiar with BPD for about 4 weeks but

like all mental illness I would think it possible. As well as other

illnesses along with it.

~~Velvet_Tears74~~

Whatever it takes.....

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Judy

Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 1:01 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Entire borderline family????

Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

I had a thought.

Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

and I mean ALL the time.

If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

me, but they refused.

To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

something???

When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

heart. Still hurts.

Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

sexual liaisons ran rampant.

So - can an entire family be borderline?

[Guest guest]

In a word, yes. There can be entire extended family systems riddled with

personality disorder and/or other mental illnesses.

There is a fascinating and extensive article at Wikipedia on " The Dysfunctional

Family " and it covers pretty much every conceivable variation on how families

can be abusive and toxic, particularly toward the children in such situations,

and why this happens.

Here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family

I think any industry in which great power, great fame/celebrity, and great

wealth are achievable with the right combination of personal appeal, charisma

and talent (and luck) will attract those with narcissistic traits, including

full-blown narcissistic pd. So, the entertainment industry, the world of

government/politics, and the world of high finance/investing are among the

fields and industries that attract narcissists.

I'm so sorry you had to endure such treatment. What you describe sounds like

torture to me, making a small child sit motionless for hours. Or getting

screamed at and kicked even while you're cowering on the floor. That isn't

parenting, its terrorism and its sadistic. I endured something very similar, so

I know what you are describing.

Its truly a miracle that somehow we didn't wind up equally as disturbed and

toxic. I personally think its due to the luck of the genetic roulette wheel: we

must have been born with very high resilience. But that's just my opinion.

-Annie

>

> Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> I had a thought.

> Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> and I mean ALL the time.

> If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> me, but they refused.

> To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> something???

> When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> heart. Still hurts.

> Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> So - can an entire family be borderline?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

(((Judy))) I'm so sorry for the pain you're feeling, the loneliness, and for all

the madness you endured at your nada's hands.

I don't know if a whole family can be borderline, but I could see how one BP in

the family can poison the rest of the family or turn them against you or anyone

who won't go along with the crazy making.

My friend reminds me often that we can't choose our biological families but can

choose a new family or circle of friends who will give us the support, love, and

friendship we didn't get as children. I wholeheartedly, absolutely believe that;

my family is just too messed up to rely on for any kind of support, emotional or

otherwise.

I wish that for you, for friends who can be the family you need. WE're here for

you, anytime.

Fiona

>

> Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> I had a thought.

> Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> and I mean ALL the time.

> If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> me, but they refused.

> To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> something???

> When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> heart. Still hurts.

> Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> So - can an entire family be borderline?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess it would not be all too suprising. Like attracts like, so a BPD is

likely going to marry someone who is PD or severly codependent. Those two

combinations together do not make for good parenting, so mostly likely they are

going to damage their children as well. The PD parents came from sick family

systems as well, so their siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins might have

collateral damage. In actuality it's probably far more likely for a family to be

shot through with sickness than not. I find this out more and more about both

sides of my family. I find out that the aunt I thought was laid back all the

time was really addicted to tranquilizers so that's why she wasn't histrionic.

There is alcohol and drug addiction on both sides of the family as well as sex

addiction and several serial pedophiles who abused every niece and/or nephew

they could get their hands on. This was quite a few as the women were all

probably trauma survivors and did absolutely nothing to make sure the young kids

in the family were kept safe because this would have meant acknowledgeing a

shameful secret...so that perpetrated more trauma and the potential for PD and

more generations to be screwed up. Your mom sounds like multiple personality or

whatever it is called these days, it sounds like a bit more than BPD. I am

amazed you survived and came through that experience without going off the deep

end. Hugs.

>

> Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> I had a thought.

> Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> and I mean ALL the time.

> If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> me, but they refused.

> To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> something???

> When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> heart. Still hurts.

> Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> So - can an entire family be borderline?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you read the Family Crucible? Try that one out for explaining a whole

family unit being assholes. I don't know if I can say BPD but I can

undoubtedly tell you they were assholes.

> **

>

>

>

> I guess it would not be all too suprising. Like attracts like, so a BPD is

> likely going to marry someone who is PD or severly codependent. Those two

> combinations together do not make for good parenting, so mostly likely they

> are going to damage their children as well. The PD parents came from sick

> family systems as well, so their siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins

> might have collateral damage. In actuality it's probably far more likely for

> a family to be shot through with sickness than not. I find this out more and

> more about both sides of my family. I find out that the aunt I thought was

> laid back all the time was really addicted to tranquilizers so that's why

> she wasn't histrionic. There is alcohol and drug addiction on both sides of

> the family as well as sex addiction and several serial pedophiles who abused

> every niece and/or nephew they could get their hands on. This was quite a

> few as the women were all probably trauma survivors and did absolutely

> nothing to make sure the young kids in the family were kept safe because

> this would have meant acknowledgeing a shameful secret...so that perpetrated

> more trauma and the potential for PD and more generations to be screwed up.

> Your mom sounds like multiple personality or whatever it is called these

> days, it sounds like a bit more than BPD. I am amazed you survived and came

> through that experience without going off the deep end. Hugs.

>

>

>

> >

> > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

> that

> > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > I had a thought.

> > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a

> family?

> > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

> and

> > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

> stars

> > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of

> my

> > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory

> things,

> > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

> very

> > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

> scream.

> > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One

> was

> > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I

> called

> > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD.

> He

> > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd

> start

> > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

> time,

> > and I mean ALL the time.

> > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back),

> I

> > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

> I'd

> > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

> have

> > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

> possible

> > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > me, but they refused.

> > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

> someone

> > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

> REALLY

> > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be

> at

> > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away

> my

> > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at

> an

> > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main

> reasons

> > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

> (I've

> > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

> I'm

> > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

> anyone

> > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > something???

> > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant,

> but

> > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took

> me

> > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

> loved

> > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

> nothing

> > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

> liar

> > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the

> family,

> > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke

> my

> > heart. Still hurts.

> > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

> scary.

> > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My family history is kind of upside down or backwards.

On the one hand my dad's family of origin was messed up. The word " colorful " is

used to describe some of them. My dad's father was a womanizer who abandoned

his family to starve during the Great Depression. My dad was devastated and

shamed by this abandonment; his dad had gotten a teenage girl pregnant and ran

off to a different state to escape jail. He didn't even send money home to

support his family; he disappeared. So my dad as the oldest became " the man of

the house " at age 9. He was his mother's darling and could do no wrong, and

ended up supporting his mom and sibs by joining the military at 16 and sending

his paycheck home for them to live on. His sibs adored him and thought of him

more as their dad than their brother. So, my dad should have been a narcissist

but he wound up a very sweet-natured, rescuer-type guy but his idea of " love "

was conditioned by a mother who was very strong and domineering.

My nada on the other hand should have wound up as bland and sweetly, boringly

well-adjusted as her foo. My mother's parents were just hard-working,

church-going, non-drinking, nice people. My grandpa kept his government job all

during the Great Depression, so his family didn't face the horrors of

homelessness or starvation. There was no hidden creepiness in my nada's foo;

no cheating spouses, no kids committing suicide... just an almost textbook

middle-class suburban family. My nada's two sisters are just sweet, stable, nice

people who married nice guys and had nice kids (who also married nice people.)

Grandpa had a temper but it was directed at things like cars and TV sets that

didn't work right. Granny was always just kind and gentle, not cold or

passive-aggressive. I never saw either of my mom's parents or her sibs (or her

extended family, for that matter) act in scary, mean, hateful ways, act

unpredictably, suddenly explode in a screaming rage, take things the wrong way

and cry hysterically over a misperceived slight, hit anyone, blame, ridicule,

shame, or make accusations against anyone, give anyone the cold shoulder, etc.

My own mother is the only adult I ever saw behave that way. It seemed to me

that her foo was as afraid of her as I was and walked on eggshells around her as

much as I and my Sister and our dad did.

So, from my point of view, bpd can appear out of the blue. My dad should have

been the mentally ill, abusive adult, but he turned out nice but kind of

dish-raggy. My mom should have been a sweet, even-tempered, non-aggressive

person based on her environment but came out very mentally ill and domineering

but in a covert way.

It was only when I started reading posts at another large support forum for

those with a bpd loved one, in the section for " Non-pd parents raising a child

with bpd " did I get corroboration that yes, bpd can appear out of the blue.

Post after post after post from these various non-pd parents were/are anguished;

these parents were heavily weighed down with guilt. They felt that they somehow

*must have* caused their beloved child to wind up with bpd and were worried sick

that their child was going to either kill herself, become pregnant, and/or have

an unhappy, limited, blighted life in assisted living residences, etc. These

parents were particularly bewildered and hoping for answers when this was

happening to only one of their children, while their other children were

apparently not suffering from bpd. That particular forum is as heart-breaking

as this one; the abject Fear, Obligation, and Guilt coming off these apparently

sweet, concerned, bewildered parents is almost palpable.

So... roses can grow in a garbage heap, and weeds can grow in the most beautiful

and well-tended garden, it would seem.

-Annie

> >

> > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > I had a thought.

> > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> > and I mean ALL the time.

> > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > me, but they refused.

> > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > something???

> > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> > heart. Still hurts.

> > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I wish I knew that much about my mother's FOO. I can't trust the few things

she told me. . . she was not close to them, except idolized her dead dad.

She idolized all dead people, so again I can't gather any intelligence from

that. . . oh vell

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 10:00 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> My family history is kind of upside down or backwards.

>

> On the one hand my dad's family of origin was messed up. The word

> " colorful " is used to describe some of them. My dad's father was a womanizer

> who abandoned his family to starve during the Great Depression. My dad was

> devastated and shamed by this abandonment; his dad had gotten a teenage girl

> pregnant and ran off to a different state to escape jail. He didn't even

> send money home to support his family; he disappeared. So my dad as the

> oldest became " the man of the house " at age 9. He was his mother's darling

> and could do no wrong, and ended up supporting his mom and sibs by joining

> the military at 16 and sending his paycheck home for them to live on. His

> sibs adored him and thought of him more as their dad than their brother. So,

> my dad should have been a narcissist but he wound up a very sweet-natured,

> rescuer-type guy but his idea of " love " was conditioned by a mother who was

> very strong and domineering.

>

> My nada on the other hand should have wound up as bland and sweetly,

> boringly well-adjusted as her foo. My mother's parents were just

> hard-working, church-going, non-drinking, nice people. My grandpa kept his

> government job all during the Great Depression, so his family didn't face

> the horrors of homelessness or starvation. There was no hidden creepiness in

> my nada's foo; no cheating spouses, no kids committing suicide... just an

> almost textbook middle-class suburban family. My nada's two sisters are just

> sweet, stable, nice people who married nice guys and had nice kids (who also

> married nice people.) Grandpa had a temper but it was directed at things

> like cars and TV sets that didn't work right. Granny was always just kind

> and gentle, not cold or passive-aggressive. I never saw either of my mom's

> parents or her sibs (or her extended family, for that matter) act in scary,

> mean, hateful ways, act unpredictably, suddenly explode in a screaming rage,

> take things the wrong way and cry hysterically over a misperceived slight,

> hit anyone, blame, ridicule, shame, or make accusations against anyone, give

> anyone the cold shoulder, etc. My own mother is the only adult I ever saw

> behave that way. It seemed to me that her foo was as afraid of her as I was

> and walked on eggshells around her as much as I and my Sister and our dad

> did.

>

> So, from my point of view, bpd can appear out of the blue. My dad should

> have been the mentally ill, abusive adult, but he turned out nice but kind

> of dish-raggy. My mom should have been a sweet, even-tempered,

> non-aggressive person based on her environment but came out very mentally

> ill and domineering but in a covert way.

>

> It was only when I started reading posts at another large support forum for

> those with a bpd loved one, in the section for " Non-pd parents raising a

> child with bpd " did I get corroboration that yes, bpd can appear out of the

> blue.

>

> Post after post after post from these various non-pd parents were/are

> anguished; these parents were heavily weighed down with guilt. They felt

> that they somehow *must have* caused their beloved child to wind up with bpd

> and were worried sick that their child was going to either kill herself,

> become pregnant, and/or have an unhappy, limited, blighted life in assisted

> living residences, etc. These parents were particularly bewildered and

> hoping for answers when this was happening to only one of their children,

> while their other children were apparently not suffering from bpd. That

> particular forum is as heart-breaking as this one; the abject Fear,

> Obligation, and Guilt coming off these apparently sweet, concerned,

> bewildered parents is almost palpable.

>

> So... roses can grow in a garbage heap, and weeds can grow in the most

> beautiful and well-tended garden, it would seem.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

> that

> > > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > > I had a thought.

> > > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a

> family?

> > > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

> and

> > > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

> stars

> > > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is

> a

> > > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out

> of my

> > > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I

> run

> > > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory

> things,

> > > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in

> them.

> > > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

> very

> > > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

> scream.

> > > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One

> was

> > > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I

> called

> > > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been

> BPD. He

> > > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd

> start

> > > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise

> them,

> > > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he

> spoke

> > > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

> time,

> > > and I mean ALL the time.

> > > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked

> back), I

> > > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

> I'd

> > > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child,

> but

> > > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

> have

> > > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

> possible

> > > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house

> by

> > > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just

> spank

> > > me, but they refused.

> > > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

> someone

> > > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

> REALLY

> > > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to

> be at

> > > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take

> away my

> > > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant

> and

> > > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He

> got

> > > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested

> at an

> > > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main

> reasons

> > > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

> (I've

> > > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

> I'm

> > > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

> anyone

> > > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > > something???

> > > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time.

> They

> > > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant,

> but

> > > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age,

> took me

> > > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

> loved

> > > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and

> my

> > > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again

> soon.

> > > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling

> horrible

> > > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

> nothing

> > > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

> liar

> > > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the

> family,

> > > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and

> she

> > > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again.

> Broke my

> > > heart. Still hurts.

> > > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

> scary.

> > > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly.

> Fleeting

> > > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree that BPD, or any other personality disorder, or mental illness for

that matter, can show up out of the blue.

My ex-fiance is one of those cases.

I'm pretty sure he had BPD, along with a tinge of paranoia. Alcoholism,

sudden rages over nothing, hating to let me out of his sight, unreasonable

possessiveness and jealousy, verbal abusiveness, extreme clinginess. By the

way, when I met him, he was so warm and kind and accepting, and drank

alcohol only moderately and at appropriate times, and his behavior was what

I can only describe as wonderful. As our relationship progressed, his

behavior slowly changed, beginning with me coming home at 6 PM and finding

him passed out drunk, and, one by one, each maladaptive behavior showed

itself until they were all present at once. It was horrible.

But the thing is, he had a great family. I spent tons of time with his

parents and his brother and they were easygoing, goodhearted, tolerant

people. Those parents never abused their children. They didn't believe in

corporal punishment, they weren't mean, they weren't screamers. They deeply

loved their children, listened to them, and were supportive and encouraging.

They lived a comfortable upper-middle-class life. Neither parent was an

alcoholic or drug abuser. Father worked a good job, mother enjoyed keeping

house. Father and mother loved each other and had an excellent relationship.

One child wasn't favored over the other. My ex's brother turned out fine.

How did my ex get the way he was? No idea. Genetics? It just happened

somehow?

Strange.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 12:00 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> My family history is kind of upside down or backwards.

>

> On the one hand my dad's family of origin was messed up. The word

> " colorful " is used to describe some of them. My dad's father was a womanizer

> who abandoned his family to starve during the Great Depression. My dad was

> devastated and shamed by this abandonment; his dad had gotten a teenage girl

> pregnant and ran off to a different state to escape jail. He didn't even

> send money home to support his family; he disappeared. So my dad as the

> oldest became " the man of the house " at age 9. He was his mother's darling

> and could do no wrong, and ended up supporting his mom and sibs by joining

> the military at 16 and sending his paycheck home for them to live on. His

> sibs adored him and thought of him more as their dad than their brother. So,

> my dad should have been a narcissist but he wound up a very sweet-natured,

> rescuer-type guy but his idea of " love " was conditioned by a mother who was

> very strong and domineering.

>

> My nada on the other hand should have wound up as bland and sweetly,

> boringly well-adjusted as her foo. My mother's parents were just

> hard-working, church-going, non-drinking, nice people. My grandpa kept his

> government job all during the Great Depression, so his family didn't face

> the horrors of homelessness or starvation. There was no hidden creepiness in

> my nada's foo; no cheating spouses, no kids committing suicide... just an

> almost textbook middle-class suburban family. My nada's two sisters are just

> sweet, stable, nice people who married nice guys and had nice kids (who also

> married nice people.) Grandpa had a temper but it was directed at things

> like cars and TV sets that didn't work right. Granny was always just kind

> and gentle, not cold or passive-aggressive. I never saw either of my mom's

> parents or her sibs (or her extended family, for that matter) act in scary,

> mean, hateful ways, act unpredictably, suddenly explode in a screaming rage,

> take things the wrong way and cry hysterically over a misperceived slight,

> hit anyone, blame, ridicule, shame, or make accusations against anyone, give

> anyone the cold shoulder, etc. My own mother is the only adult I ever saw

> behave that way. It seemed to me that her foo was as afraid of her as I was

> and walked on eggshells around her as much as I and my Sister and our dad

> did.

>

> So, from my point of view, bpd can appear out of the blue. My dad should

> have been the mentally ill, abusive adult, but he turned out nice but kind

> of dish-raggy. My mom should have been a sweet, even-tempered,

> non-aggressive person based on her environment but came out very mentally

> ill and domineering but in a covert way.

>

> It was only when I started reading posts at another large support forum for

> those with a bpd loved one, in the section for " Non-pd parents raising a

> child with bpd " did I get corroboration that yes, bpd can appear out of the

> blue.

>

> Post after post after post from these various non-pd parents were/are

> anguished; these parents were heavily weighed down with guilt. They felt

> that they somehow *must have* caused their beloved child to wind up with bpd

> and were worried sick that their child was going to either kill herself,

> become pregnant, and/or have an unhappy, limited, blighted life in assisted

> living residences, etc. These parents were particularly bewildered and

> hoping for answers when this was happening to only one of their children,

> while their other children were apparently not suffering from bpd. That

> particular forum is as heart-breaking as this one; the abject Fear,

> Obligation, and Guilt coming off these apparently sweet, concerned,

> bewildered parents is almost palpable.

>

> So... roses can grow in a garbage heap, and weeds can grow in the most

> beautiful and well-tended garden, it would seem.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

> that

> > > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > > I had a thought.

> > > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a

> family?

> > > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

> and

> > > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

> stars

> > > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is

> a

> > > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out

> of my

> > > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I

> run

> > > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory

> things,

> > > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in

> them.

> > > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

> very

> > > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

> scream.

> > > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One

> was

> > > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I

> called

> > > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been

> BPD. He

> > > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd

> start

> > > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise

> them,

> > > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he

> spoke

> > > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

> time,

> > > and I mean ALL the time.

> > > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked

> back), I

> > > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

> I'd

> > > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child,

> but

> > > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

> have

> > > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

> possible

> > > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house

> by

> > > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just

> spank

> > > me, but they refused.

> > > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

> someone

> > > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

> REALLY

> > > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to

> be at

> > > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take

> away my

> > > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant

> and

> > > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He

> got

> > > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested

> at an

> > > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main

> reasons

> > > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

> (I've

> > > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

> I'm

> > > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

> anyone

> > > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > > something???

> > > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time.

> They

> > > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant,

> but

> > > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age,

> took me

> > > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

> loved

> > > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and

> my

> > > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again

> soon.

> > > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling

> horrible

> > > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

> nothing

> > > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

> liar

> > > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the

> family,

> > > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and

> she

> > > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again.

> Broke my

> > > heart. Still hurts.

> > > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

> scary.

> > > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly.

> Fleeting

> > > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Your whole family can certainly be affected by BPD. Some may have it as it is

genetic (and those who have it genetically will be worsened by abuse). Others

growing up in it will take on some of those behaviors as they think they are

normal; that is, they think that's how everyone in the world operates because

they saw it as young children. AND there is a system in place, manipulated into

place, that others fall into to keep the peace, keep the crazy ones off of their

backs.

I'm in your kind of situation because my mother is a narcisstic BPD and I have 5

siblings--all of us damaged in our own ways and most powerless to see the

problem no less behave " normal. " My therapist explained it well that if someone

(me) is there fighting the insanity, the others will blend into the wallpaper

much as children do around bullies.

I was chased by both my parents and beaten like you were...crazy! And it is

lonely and I felt like am I the only one that sees this? But there is hope!

This site helps, reading the books, therapy, etc.

You can do it!!!!! I wish you the best on your journey out the craziness you

were born into.

>

> Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> I had a thought.

> Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> and I mean ALL the time.

> If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> me, but they refused.

> To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> something???

> When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> heart. Still hurts.

> Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> So - can an entire family be borderline?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

My own therapist once explained to me that NPDs and BPDs almost always marry

each other. It was only antecdotal, but she said, wherever there's a

borderline, always look for the narcissist. In truth, similar PDs attract and

feed on each other. So, what you're perceiving is not at all outlandish. It

happens. In my own family, my mother is a nada with strong NPD tendencies; my

father is an NPD with psychopathic tendencies; my sister is either NPD or

extremely codependent; my paternal grandmother is BPD with strong histrionic

tendency; my uncle is NPD; and my maternal grandfather is either NPD or very,

very domestically abusive. And, now that I've got several years of knowledge

through experience and my own personal (though non-scientific, again)

research--I think that clusters of Cluster Bs in one family are most likely the

norm, not the exception.

Welcome to the board and I'm sorry to hear of what you've been through.

--Charlie

>

> Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> I had a thought.

> Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> and I mean ALL the time.

> If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> me, but they refused.

> To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> something???

> When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> heart. Still hurts.

> Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> So - can an entire family be borderline?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

alcoholism is genetic. and it can cause that amount of disruption in a person's

life, so if he was normal when you met him and changes occured with the

progression of his drinking then that sounds like a textbook case of alcoholism.

I inherited mine, ironically from the grandfather that sexually abused me. My

mother is not alcoholic, but then she never drank so I don't know if she carries

the gene or not. I think sometimes people might not attribute behavioral changes

to alcoholism that they might to more widely addicting substances like cocaine

or heroin...if someone was progressively increasing their intake of these

substances and became more and more dysfunctional then they would anticipate and

even expect it but with alcohol people are more likely to personalize it because

far more of the population uses alcohol and fewer become addicted to it, so the

response might be, " well *I* drink and those things don't happen " , etc.

> > > >

> > > > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

> > that

> > > > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > > > I had a thought.

> > > > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a

> > family?

> > > > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

> > and

> > > > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

> > stars

> > > > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is

> > a

> > > > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out

> > of my

> > > > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I

> > run

> > > > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > > > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory

> > things,

> > > > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in

> > them.

> > > > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

> > very

> > > > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

> > scream.

> > > > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One

> > was

> > > > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I

> > called

> > > > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > > > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been

> > BPD. He

> > > > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd

> > start

> > > > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > > > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise

> > them,

> > > > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he

> > spoke

> > > > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

> > time,

> > > > and I mean ALL the time.

> > > > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked

> > back), I

> > > > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

> > I'd

> > > > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > > > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child,

> > but

> > > > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

> > have

> > > > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

> > possible

> > > > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > > > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house

> > by

> > > > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > > > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > > > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just

> > spank

> > > > me, but they refused.

> > > > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

> > someone

> > > > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

> > REALLY

> > > > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to

> > be at

> > > > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take

> > away my

> > > > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > > > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant

> > and

> > > > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He

> > got

> > > > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested

> > at an

> > > > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main

> > reasons

> > > > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

> > (I've

> > > > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

> > I'm

> > > > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

> > anyone

> > > > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > > > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > > > something???

> > > > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time.

> > They

> > > > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant,

> > but

> > > > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > > > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age,

> > took me

> > > > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > > > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > > > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

> > loved

> > > > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and

> > my

> > > > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > > > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again

> > soon.

> > > > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling

> > horrible

> > > > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

> > nothing

> > > > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > > > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

> > liar

> > > > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the

> > family,

> > > > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and

> > she

> > > > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again.

> > Broke my

> > > > heart. Still hurts.

> > > > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > > > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > > > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > > > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

> > scary.

> > > > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > > > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly.

> > Fleeting

> > > > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > > > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

this reminds me of an episode of House I saw where a woman became a sociopath

in childhood because of a food allergy. They explained it as an inability to

metabolize a certain chemical in a certain kind of foods. It was very complex.

She was also the child of a violent alcoholic, but they took as proof that she

was not born sociopathic that she used to defend her siblings from him and take

the beatings herself. I can't rememember the specifics.

I know that sociopathy is inborn sometimes. I knew that the predisposition for

bpd is genetic but I did not know the full disorder could be considered genetic.

I wonder if the combination of trauma plus the predisposition is what causes it.

I honestly don't understand why my mother, for instance, is not way more screwed

up than she is, since she was sexually abused from at least the age of three.

Her mother died when she was ten...she was surrounded by extended family who

while doing nothing to protect her did give her some emotional support.

> > >

> > > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

that

> > > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > > I had a thought.

> > > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> > > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

and

> > > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

stars

> > > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of

my

> > > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> > > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

very

> > > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

scream.

> > > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> > > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> > > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD.

He

> > > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> > > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

time,

> > > and I mean ALL the time.

> > > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> > > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

I'd

> > > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

have

> > > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

possible

> > > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > > me, but they refused.

> > > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

someone

> > > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

REALLY

> > > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be

at

> > > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away

my

> > > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at

an

> > > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> > > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

(I've

> > > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

I'm

> > > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

anyone

> > > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > > something???

> > > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> > > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took

me

> > > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

loved

> > > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

nothing

> > > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

liar

> > > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> > > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke

my

> > > heart. Still hurts.

> > > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

scary.

> > > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

that is really comforting, LOL. My father is textbook NPD, it's nice to read my

family in 'normal' if only in this very twisted way.

I also want to add that the two textbook autistics (high-functioning/asperger)

in my family both married BPD females. It would fall right in line with the

symptoms of being very unskilled at reading people and discerning their motives.

I sometimes wonder if so many of the 'dishrag dads' that so many people describe

on here are somewhere on the autism spectrum. My uncle who is a genius, very

rich, mechanical engineer, (the math genius would peg him on the high

functioning autistic side of the spectrum, along with his flat effect, monotone

voice, woefully inadequate social skills, and lower than average ability to

empathize) married a BPD woman, interestingly another one of the 'non-cleaner'

type people. She is famous in my family for having called the carpet cleaners

when her kids were little, to come shampoo her carpet, only to have them show up

and tell her they could not help her because the carpet was so bad, and leave. I

find that pretty stunning considering the massive black pepsi stain on my

parents carpet when my dad called them out here, plus all the other hardened

mysterious brown stains that SIL either created or didn't clean when her kids

did them...they didn't even blink before rendering all three carpets like new.

Then my oldest brother is textbook aspergers and he married a BPD also. (That

doesn't even take into account my youngest brother and his nightmare BPD SIL

though...I can't explain that since he is not NPD, and not asperger...he is the

most normal sibling, but has little self-esteem thanks to my NPD father).

> >

> > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > I had a thought.

> > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> > and I mean ALL the time.

> > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > me, but they refused.

> > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > something???

> > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> > heart. Still hurts.

> > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Science is very, very slowly chipping away at the vast unknown RE what causes

diseases and disorders in human beings, and they've only really just started.

The more our technology advances the more information is revealing itself.

The *current* research is showing that schizophrenia does have several specific

genetic markers, but these still only predispose an individual to increased risk

of developing the disorder.

There hasn't been nearly as much research on borderline pd in relation to

genetic markers, but currently according to the NIMH website, the currently

accepted position is that borderline pd can occur due to a genetic

*predisposition* or vulnerability toward developing the illness IF the right (or

wrong, really) environmental conditions exist. So, it takes nature plus nurture

to result in someone with bpd.

I personally agree with theories I've read about the causation being on a

sliding or balancing scale: if a child is born with extremely high sensitivity

to stress (the infant/child becomes highly stressed easily, has difficulty

calming down after experiencing stress and doesn't adjust easily to changes in

environment, etc.) then he or she is going to sustain more severe emotional

trauma from even a mildly invalidating environment (ie, a relatively normal,

average, non hostile environment) while a child born with high resilience to

stress will sustain less emotional trauma from an invalidating environment.

I hope that within my lifetime more important and urgently-needed discoveries

will be made RE the causes of personality disorder and how to improve both the

brain functioning AND the outside environment in positive ways so that these

disorders can hopefully, eventually, be curable or prevented in the first place.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with

that

> > > > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > > > I had a thought.

> > > > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a

family?

> > > > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors

and

> > > > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally

stars

> > > > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is

a

> > > > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out

of my

> > > > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I

run

> > > > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > > > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory

things,

> > > > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > > > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was

very

> > > > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing

scream.

> > > > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One

was

> > > > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I

called

> > > > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > > > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been

BPD. He

> > > > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd

start

> > > > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > > > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise

them,

> > > > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he

spoke

> > > > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the

time,

> > > > and I mean ALL the time.

> > > > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back),

I

> > > > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was

I'd

> > > > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > > > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child,

but

> > > > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd

have

> > > > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it

possible

> > > > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > > > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house

by

> > > > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > > > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > > > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just

spank

> > > > me, but they refused.

> > > > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call

someone

> > > > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was

REALLY

> > > > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to

be at

> > > > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away

my

> > > > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > > > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > > > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > > > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at

an

> > > > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main

reasons

> > > > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict

(I've

> > > > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember

I'm

> > > > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with

anyone

> > > > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > > > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > > > something???

> > > > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time.

They

> > > > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant,

but

> > > > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > > > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took

me

> > > > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > > > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > > > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I

loved

> > > > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and

my

> > > > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > > > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > > > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling

horrible

> > > > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted

nothing

> > > > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > > > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a

liar

> > > > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the

family,

> > > > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > > > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again.

Broke my

> > > > heart. Still hurts.

> > > > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > > > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > > > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > > > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was

scary.

> > > > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > > > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > > > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > > > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for sharing that Charlie. That makes so much sense and

provides me with a strange sense of relief. For years I have constantly wondered

how I had the bad luck of getting stuck with a PD mother AND father. Back in

school, friends would even tell me that I was the only sane one out of the

bunch.

> >

> > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > I had a thought.

> > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> > and I mean ALL the time.

> > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > me, but they refused.

> > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > something???

> > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> > heart. Still hurts.

> > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

I am new to this message board. I read your message and several responses to it.

I really feel badly about the suffering you have had to endure as a child and

now. I feel especially badly that you didn't have an adult who you could trust

in your childhood, and then when you finally thought you did, they betrayed you

to those who were abusing you to begin with. I imagine you are as happy to find

this community as I am. I cannot say I have had as extreme an experience as you

have had, but I have often felt like a stranger in my family of origin. Like

even though I looked like I belonged there, I emotionally didn't fit in it,

except for connections I had with my dad at times. I felt like it was not safe

to share feelings with my mom and rarely did as I felt as if I scared her when I

did. She would negate them or ignore them or seem to regard them as silly and a

weakness. I just buried it all and figured it was a flaw in me, all the while

knowing something was wrong. I do not have the extreme experience you have with

your famous np first cousin,but I do have a younger sister ( I am the middle

child)who has always demanded and gotten the focus of the family's attention. I

am now suspecting that she is also either np or bp or both. My older sister

escaped the emotional abandonment and what I think was our bp mother's behaviors

by attaching herself to a group of her peers who acted out and participated in a

lot of substance abuse. For years I have secretly blamed her for our family's

pain, but now feel the root is my mom's bp. I did not really identify my own

feelings or even realize how negatively all this was affecting me until recent

years. I am now in my fifties and when I turned forty it was like a switch was

flipped and I no longer wanted to make things " right " or " work " for everyone

else, and put me last, and sought counseling for myself to exert my independence

and self in my family of origin.I am fortunate to have a husband and two adult

children whom I trust and whom I can be myself with. They believe me, and see

what I see, and expereince what I do in my family of origin. But I still have to

deal with my family of origin and how they treat me and now my family. Through

counseling and reading an amazing book by Dr. Black called " Changing

Course - Healing from Loss, Abandonment, and Fear " I accomplished a lot of

personal healing and growth. It was as if the furniture was still in the wrong

place, but the lights were at least now on. It helped a lot. The book is very

hands on and has brief, powerful activities you complete that help you move

through your awareness and growth. Dr. Black talks about parenting yourself and

embracing that scared, alone, betrayed child you were before you can heal as you

are now. It was life changing for me. Like a stone lifted off my chest. I

highly recommend it for anyone, and certianly for you.

Now things have intensified for me as my father died recently and my mother

seems worse as far as splitting behavior, especially toward me and my husband as

being the " bad " entity and my younger sister and her husband as being the " good "

ones. Tough stuff and makes me crazy.It has pushed me to finding and reading

" stop walking on eggshells " . I wish you contentness and peace.

> >

> > Well, it's Saturday afternoon and I'm sitting here alone and sad, with that

> > broken heart and shattered soul that never seem to mend...

> > I had a thought.

> > Can a WHOLE FAMILY be borderline???? Or at least the majority of a family?

> > I come from a theatrical family. Both my parents were actors, directors and

> > playwrights before I was born. My paternal grandparents were literally stars

> > in the '20s and '30s. My only living family member, my first cousin, is a

> > huge star in the world of classical music. I would love to put him out of my

> > mind completely, due to his incredibly painful rejection of me, but I run

> > into him on television all the time. It hurts. It really hurts.

> > My nada was most definitely BPD, NPD and a bunch of other unsavory things,

> > including being attracted to little girls. Her eyes had no life in them.

> > They were like black stones. She used several distinct voices. One was very

> > high, as though she was being a wee wittle girl. One was a piercing scream.

> > One was low and gravelly and furious and, well, just sounded evil. One was

> > the voice she used on the phone and at the office, which was what I called

> > her " normal " voice. Her voices could change in an instant.

> > My father - well, now that I think of it, he very well may have been BPD. He

> > would fly into sudden violent rages over the tiniest things, or he'd start

> > screaming at the top of his lungs and crying at the same time. He would

> > think the world of someone and then in the blink of an eye, despise them,

> > and cut them out of his life. His facial expressions and the way he spoke

> > never seemed spontaneous. It was like he was putting on an act all the time,

> > and I mean ALL the time.

> > If I misbehaved (spilled a glass of milk, for instance, or talked back), I

> > didn't get spanked. There were one of two things that happened. One was I'd

> > have to sit in a chair for what seemed like forever to me. Of course,

> > there's nothing wrong with using " time out " for disciplining a child, but

> > the catch was, I wasn't allowed to move a single muscle. If I did, I'd have

> > to sit in the chair longer - without moving a single muscle. Is it possible

> > for a child to sit without moving at all? I don't think so...

> > The other punishment for misbehavior was being chased around the house by

> > one or the other parent, or both of them, and being slapped, punched or

> > kicked until I fell on the floor, and then I'd get slapped, punched and

> > kicked some more, and screamed at. I used to beg my parents to just spank

> > me, but they refused.

> > To get me to do whatever I balked at doing, they'd threaten to call someone

> > like my favorite teacher or favorite friend and tell them what I was REALLY

> > like - that I was bad and evil, and not the nice person I pretended to be at

> > school, or when I was with my friends. They'd also threaten to take away my

> > piano, and my piano was my reason for living.

> > My cousin, the classical music star, has always been very flamboyant and

> > histrionic. He always had to be the absolute center of attention. He got

> > into drugs in the '70s and '80s, especially cocaine, and got arrested at an

> > English airport for drug possession. Oddly enough, one of the main reasons

> > why he rejected me was because nada convinced him I was a drug addict (I've

> > always been drug-free), and if I dared say I wasn't, he should remember I'm

> > also a pathological liar. He was also quite free about sleeping with anyone

> > who could get him one step more up the ladder of success. Could he be

> > borderline too? Or just NPD? Do borderlines all stick together or

> > something???

> > When I was 20, I met my second and third cousins for the first time. They

> > were all in theater. During the dinner, they were loud and flamboyant, but

> > very loving to me, and I thought, wow, maybe I've found a family that

> > actually cares about me! My second cousin, who was my mother's age, took me

> > under her wing, invited me to stay overnight several times, told me she

> > loved me, that I was like another daughter to her, and encouraged me to

> > confide in her. I'd never had an older person to confide in before. I loved

> > her and trusted her, and told her about my parents' scary behavior and my

> > nada's alcoholism and drug abuse. She listened with what seemed like

> > compassion, and hugged me, and said she hoped I'd come visit again soon.

> > The next night, my nada called me and SCREAMED at me for telling horrible

> > lies to this cousin, and told me this cousin now hated me and wanted nothing

> > to do with me because I was so full of hatred.

> > I called the cousin and SHE started yelling at me and telling me what a liar

> > I was, and not only that, I was fat and ugly and a disgrace to the family,

> > and how dare I say such horrible untrue things about my parents, and she

> > said she never wanted to see me anymore. And I never saw her again. Broke my

> > heart. Still hurts.

> > Were the most important people in my life ALL borderlines?

> > If so, how did I come out even halfway sane, let alone alive?

> > I was in theater (as a musical director/composer) for a good deal of my

> > life, and let me tell you, those BPDs were all over the place. It was scary.

> > They were at each other's throats much of the time. There were tantrums

> > galore. Friendships formed and broke up quickly and constantly. Fleeting

> > sexual liaisons ran rampant.

> > So - can an entire family be borderline?

> >

> >

> >