Brand new realization: BPD

[Guest guest]

My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of her

adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the " abandonment. " I

finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super children, 2 1/2 yo

twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right now. Well, for the

last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's threatened suicide if

she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This is the first self harm

threat ever.

My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I totally

believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up. I'd

like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has always

had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I drop them

off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever that she

didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...) Advice

about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship with her

(other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up about it. I

have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of course

scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's limited

emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids until she

has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her to do the

emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow them

relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week. Which

just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because she and

I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is enough " to

her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the neighbors

can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her heart and

hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and out the

door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to yell at

me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most of the

drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

Thanks so much!

[Guest guest]

My mom also adored my now 24 year old son when he was a child but the minute he

began to have thoughts of his own she started to tell me he was spoiled and tell

him he was no good until she finally dumped him 6 years ago. As a result, my son

had to go to therapy to regain his sense of self and may always have trust

issues.

I suggest treading lightly when it comes to subjecting your impressionable

children to your nada's histrionics. Not sure how to handle the threats of

suicide but it sounds like she is holding that over your head to keep you in

line.

Maybe someone else can speak on the suicide piece and offer guidance there.

Sending positive thoughts and hope your way,

Darcy

>

> My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

>

> My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

>

> Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

>

>

> Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

>

> Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

>

> I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

>

> Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> Thanks so much!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Keep your children far away from her unless you are with them at all times. My

mother is BPD and as we know all too well, they are HIGHLY manipulative people.

She will cause issues in your children that only years of therapy can hope to

rectify. ANd even then, there are no guarantees. I feel for you and wish you

lots of luck. Maybe its just time to set it down and walk away, I had to do it

for my children because I did not want to give them my life which took 10 plus

years of counseling AND a college degree in psychology to work through my

issues. Don't rely solely on luck. Take control of your situation.

> >

> > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

> >

> > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no

one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> >

> > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> >

> >

> > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but

I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

> >

> > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> >

> > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

> >

> > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > Thanks so much!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My brother is having an issue with this and his kids. I think the current

decision is that nada's absolutely banned from seeing them without direct

supervision. Last time she dropped by (unannounced, uninvited, btw), she pushed

past my oldest nephew and my brother to coo at the baby. Then nada began to

insult my brother in front of his children. She was asked to leave.

While Brother wants his children to make their own decisions about their

relationship with nada, I personally don't think that's fair or safe in the long

run. What makes you think she will treat your children well when you're not

looking? What kind of emotional/mental damage will she inflict on them?

My nada is exactly like yours. She is heartbroken that the only thing she feels

validated by (motherhood) has been 'taken away from her' because I'm NC and

Brother and her grandchildren don't want to see her. She's threatened to kill

herself enough times that I check in on her indirectly to check whether she's

followed through.

It sucks to know that your nada is feeling hurt and it's a tough place to be.

For me, I decided that she's an adult and if she's selfish enough to actually

take her own life, then there is nothing I can really do to stop that. Nothing

will ever be good enough for her and suicide is just another (awful & desperate)

guilt trip.

Good luck and I'm sorry your going through this with your kids. I hope my

perspective helps in some way.

K

>

> My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

>

> My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

>

> Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

>

>

> Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

>

> Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

>

> I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

>

> Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> Thanks so much!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello-

You wrote:

" Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I totally

believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up "

For what it is worth, my BPD dad used to threaten this all the time and never

carried through with it.

But let's pretend for a moment this wasn't your mom speaking, but instead an old

nanny who used to raised the kids, who they were attached to.

If an old nanny threatened to kill herself unless she saw the kids, picked crazy

fights with you every time you got together, screamed things at you from the

front doorstep, etc. what would you do?

Call the police? Get a restraining order? My guess is that you certainly

wouldn't keep exposing the kids to her because " they love her so much " .

Wouldn't you recognized, in that case, that the kids weren't the best judges of

what was good for them?

I think what's tripping you up here is the fact that it's your mom, and the fact

that she's laying huge guilt on you to bend you to her will.

Sounds to me like she's testing you, and the question she's asking is, " Is your

family fair game? Can I mess with them the way I messed with you? "

Because that's what she knows, right? She clearly hasn't gotten better, if you

are still having to fight her off every time you meet.

You asked:

" Do I continue " her days " with the kids until she has a problem in her

relationship with one of them?? I don't want her to do the emotional blackmail

to them that she continues with me... do I allow them relationships? Am I

setting them up for problems?? "

Sounds to me like you are answering your own questions.

If she's already screaming at their mother in front of them, then you are

already exposing them to stress and violence. How much is " enough " to make you

pull away? Do you really want her to hurt one of them badly enough that you

finally feel justified in breaking off contact? Is that what it would take?

Sounds like a bit of a gamble to me, to leave them alone with her. Do you really

want to risk their dear little selves with someone so unstable? Would you ever

choose to leave them with this person, if she weren't your mom?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I know this stuff is hard - I haven't yet

introduced my own parents to our foster daughter for similar fears. But it's

easier with a foster child, since they don't feel a claim over her. If I had

biological children, I am sure my folks would have demanded visits long before

this....

Good luck to you.

Letty

> >

> > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

> >

> > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no

one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> >

> > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> >

> >

> > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but

I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

> >

> > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> >

> > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

> >

> > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > Thanks so much!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds like good advice!

> **

>

>

> Hello-

>

>

> You wrote:

>

> " Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

> totally

> believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up "

>

> For what it is worth, my BPD dad used to threaten this all the time and

> never carried through with it.

>

> But let's pretend for a moment this wasn't your mom speaking, but instead

> an old nanny who used to raised the kids, who they were attached to.

>

> If an old nanny threatened to kill herself unless she saw the kids, picked

> crazy fights with you every time you got together, screamed things at you

> from the front doorstep, etc. what would you do?

>

> Call the police? Get a restraining order? My guess is that you certainly

> wouldn't keep exposing the kids to her because " they love her so much " .

>

> Wouldn't you recognized, in that case, that the kids weren't the best

> judges of what was good for them?

>

> I think what's tripping you up here is the fact that it's your mom, and

> the fact that she's laying huge guilt on you to bend you to her will.

>

> Sounds to me like she's testing you, and the question she's asking is, " Is

> your family fair game? Can I mess with them the way I messed with you? "

>

> Because that's what she knows, right? She clearly hasn't gotten better, if

> you are still having to fight her off every time you meet.

>

> You asked:

>

>

> " Do I continue " her days " with the kids until she has a problem in her

> relationship with one of them?? I don't want her to do the emotional

> blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow them

> relationships? Am I setting them up for problems?? "

>

> Sounds to me like you are answering your own questions.

>

> If she's already screaming at their mother in front of them, then you are

> already exposing them to stress and violence. How much is " enough " to make

> you pull away? Do you really want her to hurt one of them badly enough that

> you finally feel justified in breaking off contact? Is that what it would

> take?

>

> Sounds like a bit of a gamble to me, to leave them alone with her. Do you

> really want to risk their dear little selves with someone so unstable?

> Would you ever choose to leave them with this person, if she weren't your

> mom?

>

> I don't mean to sound harsh. I know this stuff is hard - I haven't yet

> introduced my own parents to our foster daughter for similar fears. But

> it's easier with a foster child, since they don't feel a claim over her. If

> I had biological children, I am sure my folks would have demanded visits

> long before this....

>

> Good luck to you.

>

> Letty

>

>

>

> > >

> > > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the

> target of her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started

> the " abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three

> super children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a

> spell right now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst

> right now, she's threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids

> throughout her life. This is the first self harm threat ever.

> > >

> > > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she

> has no one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the

> handyman, electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36

> yrs, (out of state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty,

> manipulating, wailing victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_

> that's what we said, etc. Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful.

> I do have a therapist and we have tried family therapy. But my mom said

> that the therapist was wrong, didn't know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> > >

> > > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

> totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep

> contact up. I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids

> growing up. She has always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day'

> with the girl where I drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and

> wouldn't do a thing ever that she didn't think was in their best interest

> (her point of view mind you...) Advice about how to live through this? I

> don't have an emotional relationship with her (other than irritated at the

> continued drama) and am not broken up about it. I have no desire for one

> and don't see the potential for one. She of course scratches and claws me

> for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's limited emotional contact

> on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids until she has a problem

> in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her to do the emotional

> blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow them

> relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> > >

> > >

> > > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs

> help but I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words

> I stood for before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like

> that wouldn't you. " Advice?? =)

> > >

> > > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this

> week. Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time

> because she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say

> " enough is enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a

> train wreck the neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it

> seriously breaks her heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I

> physically have to move her to and out the door and say we'll have to try

> another day. Which then she continues to yell at me through the door. I've

> been able to shelter the kids from seeing most of the drama, but won't be

> able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> > >

> > > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all

> been planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally

> abusive to me' blahblah and more blah.

> > >

> > > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > > Thanks so much!

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with the earlier posters.

If your mother is so emotionally abusive to you that *you* can't take being

around her, then she is too disturbed to be around your children, alone and

unsupervised.

How would you feel if your mother made a suicide threat or a real suicide

attempt in front of one or more of your children, and scared the living crap out

of them? Witnessing an adult being so out of control is traumatizing for kids.

Even witnessing an adult just being hysterical, screaming, raging, violent, or

otherwise emotionally out of control can traumatize a child; quadruple the

trauma if the out-of-control behavior is *aimed at the child.*

My speculation (and I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist, mind you) is that

perhaps you had a " golden " childhood because you were completely compliant,

subjugated to your mother's will, and obedient. You were conditioned that if

you behaved exactly as she expected you to, things were good between you.

Perhaps you were even parentified: you took care of your mother's emotional

needs, instead of the other way around. When you decided to have your own life,

be an autonomous, self-actualized adult and stop being your mother's " mommy " ,

that's when the sh*t hit the fan.

Even covert abuse which on the surface appears as " doting " behavior is abuse.

It does damage.

In my opinion, if your mother is so mentally ill that she is threatening suicide

to get you to hand over your kids for visits, then she is too mentally ill to be

around your kids unsupervised. The suicide threats are a Big Red Flag.

-Annie

>

> My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

>

> My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

>

> Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

>

>

> Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

>

> Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

>

> I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

>

> Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> Thanks so much!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well.....for what it's worth, my nada has used the suicide threat quite

effectively for as long as I can remember. Even now, when she has mobility

issues, and her medications are under lock and key, administered by caregivers,

I get the " this is goodbye " call at least once a week. I should say I get the

voice mail, since I don't answer her calls directly.

it can take a lifetime to realize you are not responsible for your mom.

Your kids are your number one priority. You say they love her so much, but

they're quite young. They probably love cookies a lot, and want to stay at the

park all day, too. As parents, we sometimes need to make decisions for our

kids, despite our kids' potential disappointment, i.e. limiting the number of

cookies, having a consistent schedule etc. If your mom is unable to maintain

relationships with anyone, yourself included, why would she act any differently

with your kids? What relationships does she have that are not built around

manipulation etc?

My nada made it pretty easy. Her idea of being a good grandma was to send a

card with a check, and display any of their drawings up on the fridge. My kids

say they cannot recall her ever hugging them, etc. She never volunteered to

babysit, but I wouldn't have allowed it if she had. It was sad, because it

limited the contact they had with my dad, whom they adored. And yet, they were

very bonded and very close to nada's parents, who would literally drive 5 hours

across state to visit us and take care of the kids in an emergency.

As the kids got older, they got the manipulative " goodbye " suicide threat phone

calls, too. They're all adults now, 3 have virtually no contact and one sends

her a birthday and Christmas card.

Just my two cents....

>

> My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

>

> My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

>

> Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

>

>

> Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

>

> Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

>

> I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

>

> Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> Thanks so much!

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am in a similar situation. i have set the clear boundary with mu nada that

until me and her and my hubby have a somewhat civilised and respectable

relationship its very damaging for everyone onvolved including the kids for her

to come see them. i have offered her to start on a clean slate with me and hubby

but she has refused and disrespected it...(gee no surprise). for that reason she

is not to see my children. she has gone as far as comign to our house univinited

and showing up at their school (which btw totally freaked me out!). my kids are

5, 7 and 1 and keeping them away from her viscious and combative nature has been

one of the best decsisions i have made in my life. she is the queeen of

manipulation, especially emotiuonal and to this day my eldest recalls what her

grandma used to say things to her when she used to go over...things like " see

how much grandma loves you, i buy you whatever you want " , or " if you cry i will

too " or " i am the best grandma " or " i am your mummy's mum so she has to listen

to me " . you are lucky your kids are still very young...cut it now before they

get older as the get more attached especailly if shes anything like my nada. and

as far as the suidcides threats, my nada used to do it all the time...at first i

would freak out but than i saw through her game. she watned attention and thats

how she got whatever she wanted. good luck.

> >

> > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

> >

> > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no

one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> >

> > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> >

> >

> > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but

I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

> >

> > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> >

> > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

> >

> > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > Thanks so much!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm also 36 and started seriously limiting my mom's contact with my children (2

girls 7 and 9) about 3 years ago. Trust me, the emotional manipulation gets

worse as they age. My mom used to babysit when my daughters were very young.

As they got older and able to tell me what was happening, I found out she told

them that my oldest daughter was " good " and my youngest was " bad " . She hit my

youngest with " switches " even though she knows we used timeouts. She cried to

them and gossipped about other people, told them not to like certain people,

forced them to do embarrassing things - like making my daughter who was 5 at the

time to wear a pullup to church so that grandma wouldn't have to walk out to the

bathroom (??? who does that???) She even accused my daughter of lying on her

because she repeated something that grandma said. It gets worse as they age

because they are able to understand more. My mom spoke negatively about me and

my husband to the children and constantly criticized our parenting skills. what

you will worry about when they get older is actually protecting your own

relationship with your children. my mom destroys relationships - her own and

anyone around her. Now my kids only see her when WE ALL see her as a family,

which is birthdays and holidays. Now my children have memories of the things

that grandma said and what grandma did to them and how grandma made them feel.

they don't want to go to her house anymore. If I had known better, I would have

limited the contact then and only interacted with her as a family. Protect your

children! Many times emotional manipulation can have worse and longer lasting

consequences than physical abuse.

> > >

> > > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target

of her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

> > >

> > > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no

one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> > >

> > > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> > >

> > >

> > > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help

but I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood

for before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

> > >

> > > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> > >

> > > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

> > >

> > > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > > Thanks so much!

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My younger Sister had to take a very firm, hard stand with our nada RE our

nada's habit of denigrating Sister as a parent in front of her child (back when

my nephew was still a pre-schooler.) Sister's repeated reminders and requests

RE this matter were falling on deaf ears. Nada was the " boss " , was perfect,

always right, etc., and Sister had no sense, according to nada, and nada was

entitled to say whatever she felt like saying to us, whenever she felt like it.

My Sister, the poor little all-bad scapegoated child who only wanted to be

loved, finally had to pull over to the side of a freeway and threaten to eject

nada from Sister's car to find her own way home in order to get nada to

comprehend that undermining Sister's authority as a parent in front of her

little boy was NOT OK. (Sister had repeatedly said to nada that if nada had an

issue with some parenting decision Sister had made, to speak to her about it

privately. This did not register with nada.)

Being threatened with being left by the side of the highway to walk home finally

made nada realize that Sister was serious, and nada complied with that

particular rule after that point; but every victory with our nada (RE getting

nada to respect us as adult human beings, not things she owned, not 5 year old

kids) was hard-fought. Very hard-fought.

Because when nada could not dominate through intimidation, she'd try using tears

and guilt, claiming that we were mean and hateful and she was the victim of

*our* abuse.

Nada viewed her need to intensely control and dominate her children to the point

of degrading/shaming us, as " love. "

I still have issues of equating " love " with being completely subjugated to the

point of having no identity of my own. Brrr.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target

of her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

> > > >

> > > > My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has

no one else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the

handyman, electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs,

(out of state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating,

wailing victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said,

etc. Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and

we have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong,

didn't know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

> > > >

> > > > Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help

but I can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood

for before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

> > > >

> > > > Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this

week. Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time

because she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough

is enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

> > > >

> > > > I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all

been planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to

me' blahblah and more blah.

> > > >

> > > > Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> > > > Thanks so much!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am also the only child of a BPD nada. I often heard growing up " You're all I

have " and was accused of abandoning her. After I became a teenager and started

developing independence and created a life of my own, things really got bad and

nada was awful to me, totally manipulative and down-right abusive most of the

time.

After my daughter was born my nada completely latched on to her and my daughter

was " all good " and I was " all bad " . I was also labeled a bad mom for no reason

other than that nada felt she could do a better job than me in raising my

daughter.

I went NC when my daughter was about a year old. My relationship with nada was

at an all-time low getting worse. I felt that if she couldn't respect me as a

parent or even bother to try and have a civil relationship with me, then she

could not see her grand-daughter. I could see the manipulation starting with my

daughter regardless of how loving nada seemed. I knew as my daughter got older

and wanted to do her own thing, we would be right back to where I was when I was

a teen. I don't want my daughter to be exposed to any of it. I don't want her to

experience any of nada's abuse whether it is aimed at her or me. I believe

spending time with a grandchild is not a right, it's an earned privilege. In my

situation, I feel like it is better for my daughter to not know nada at all then

for her to experience even a fraction of the awfulness of her BPD. If you insist

on letting your nada have access to your kids I would not let it be unsupervised

anymore.

As far as the suicide threats go, I would take each and every one seriously and

call 911. If your nada's threats are just a cry for attention, maybe she will

stop after the paramedics and police bombard her house and put her on a suicide

watch.

Good Luck!

>

> My mom has BPD. And now, I realize, always has. I'm 36. I was the target of

her adoration, her only child. At 16 I fell in love and started the

" abandonment. " I finished college, married him 12 yo ago, we have three super

children, 2 1/2 yo twins and 1/2 yo. Anyhow, she's really have a spell right

now. Well, for the last 2 1/2 years. But it's at its worst right now, she's

threatened suicide if she doesn't get to see the kids throughout her life. This

is the first self harm threat ever.

>

> My biggest question is I'd do just fine with NC. But she won't, she has no one

else in her life. I mean not even the landscaper will stay, the handyman,

electrician, remodeling contractor, best friend of more than 36 yrs, (out of

state, on and off) all walked off the job. She's nasty, manipulating, wailing

victim, hears what she wants and _firmly believes_ that's what we said, etc.

Totally in her own reality. Anyhow, it is awful. I do have a therapist and we

have tried family therapy. But my mom said that the therapist was wrong, didn't

know a thing, and was unethical. HAH!

>

> Anyhow, she will kill herself if she has no hope of seeing the kids. I

totally believe this and they love her so much, I would like to keep contact up.

I'd like ADVICE PLZ about the next few years and the kids growing up. She has

always had 'her day' with the boys, and then 'her day' with the girl where I

drop them off at her house. She loves them dearly and wouldn't do a thing ever

that she didn't think was in their best interest (her point of view mind you...)

Advice about how to live through this? I don't have an emotional relationship

with her (other than irritated at the continued drama) and am not broken up

about it. I have no desire for one and don't see the potential for one. She of

course scratches and claws me for one... abandonment continued. So I guess it's

limited emotional contact on my part. Do I continue " her days " with the kids

until she has a problem in her relationship with one of them?? I don't want her

to do the emotional blackmail to them that she continues with me... do I allow

them relationships? Am I setting them up for problems??

>

>

> Right now, she's really unstable but won't acknowledge it and needs help but I

can't give it and don't know what to do about it. The last words I stood for

before leaving were, 'You're driving me to suicide! You'd like that wouldn't

you. " Advice?? =)

>

> Needless to say, the kids can't go over there with her this way this week.

Which just spirals her further down. And I can't supervise their time because

she and I are volatile-explosive and I just end up having to say " enough is

enough " to her and pack up and we leave. Which of course is a train wreck the

neighbors can't look away from and spirals her down. And it seriously breaks her

heart and hurts her. If she's at my house, I physically have to move her to and

out the door and say we'll have to try another day. Which then she continues to

yell at me through the door. I've been able to shelter the kids from seeing most

of the drama, but won't be able to much longer... my keen little sponges.

>

> I'm just so done with the 'you abandoned me' 'this is what you've all been

planning' 'you're a bad mommy' 'you're horrible and emotionally abusive to me'

blahblah and more blah.

>

> Ideas about grandkids growing up with BPD Grandparents???

> Thanks so much!

>

>

[Guest guest]

If your mother were a serial killer, would you leave your kids alone with her?

What if she said please?

Everything your mum did to you when you were little, she will do to your babies.

Unless of course you have evidence that she has been making huge behavioral

changes with the help of a T. They are cute right now, and she is using

them--yes USING them, not loving them--to give herself a sense of identity and

worth. That is abusive to your kids, whose job should be to play and grow, not

to take care of Grandma's black hole of emotional need. Too big a burden for

them, if you ask me.

Do what you and your kids need to be safe and healthy. Your mother is able to

make her own choices. She can choose to seek help, or she can choose to threaten

to kill herself, none of that is in your control nor is it your fault. You are

not responsible for her choices, you are only responsible for yours. You have to

protect your kids and yourself, too. If you do continue contact, make sure to

protect yourself with boundaries and supervise her visits with your kids.

Do you have a T who can guide you through these decisions?

Sveta