carrying on the job.

July 6, 2008

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

Since everybody has ignored the poor man's question and instead chosen to

moralize and pontificate upon the pros and cons of carrying, I shall answer the

man's question.

There is no federal law addressing carrying a weapon in an ambulance

specifically.

Therefore, the answer to the man's question is: It is a matter of state law

and policy.

Now you may all assume your pulpits once again.

Please excuse the interruption.

(Don't forget to send me my cut of the collection.)

GG

>

> If you look at statistics, more likely than not ,the gun will be used on

> you. That is the unfortunate outcome of many concealed handgun programs

> (which I am for politically) (which I am for politically)<wbr>. Also, what

> you enter the hospital? What if the call is a jail, school or liquor store

> (where guns can't be carried), will your employer provide a proper lock box

> to lock your gun up when you cannot carry it? You will spend so much time

> locking and unlocking the gun that the novelty will wear off and you will

> start leaving it at home. Better yet, if worried, buy body armor.

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of brandonjones36

> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:42 PM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: carrying on the job.

>

> OK, here is the problem I have with everybody's argument. I like the

> police, I work with them on a daily basis. problem: the police

> aren't always there. And, you don't always " feel unsafe " There could

> come a time, when you are with a patient, and you feel perfectly safe

> and BOOM! he pulls a gun.

>

> Police, even if they are there, have no legal obligation to protect

> you. Let me refer you to the case of Lynch Vs. NC Dept. of Justice.

>

> " Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect

> individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead, their duty is

> to preserve the peace and arrest lawbreakers for the protection of

> the general public. "

>

> In another case, Riss Vs. New York, the same ruling was upheld, in a

> dissenting opinion, I think the Justice spelled it out pretty clear

> when he said this:

>

> " What makes the City's position particularly difficult to

> understand, is that, in conformity to the

> dictates of the law, did not carry any weapon for self-defense.

> Thus

> by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on

> the City

> of New York which now denies all responsibility to her. "

>

> In this video, less than two months ago, a Medstar (East St. Louis,

> IL, Not 10 miles from where I work) EMT was shot while driving a

> patient in route to Jewish hospital.

> http://www.youtube.http://wwwhttp://www.yo

> Granted in that situation, the EMT having a gun wouldn't do him any

> good, but I'm sure he didn't " feel unsafe " .

>

> In D.C. Vs. Heller, the Supreme Court Justices right this: (in

> reference to multiple previous pages of definitions) reference to mult

> these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee

> the individual right to possess and carry weapons in

> case of confrontation.

>

> Therefore, I believe I have a strong case. The police cannot always

> be counted on to protect me, Even if they are there, they have no

> legal obligation to do so. I work in some very dangerous areas, and

> I have a right to defend myself.

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little

> success to

> > > > look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the

> ambulance. I

> > > > have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that

> it is a

> > > > state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it,

> that

> > > > it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal

> law, and

> > > > if so, can you site the law.

> > > >

> > > > After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against

> it, I

> > > > plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs.

> Heller. I

> > > > believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little

> safer.

> > > >

> > >

July 6, 2008

Why??

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of brandonjones36

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:54 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

There are some people that do not need to have access to a firearm

even if they have the right. For it to be carried the service would

have lots of liability. I would think you would have to have a

protocol established as to its use. I would also think you would

have to establish a training program for it.

As to specific law I do not know, perhaps one of our resident lawyers

can better answer.

Renny

>

> Why??

>

> _____

>

> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of brandonjones36

> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:54 PM

> To: texasems-l

> Subject: carrying on the job.

>

> Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success

to

> look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

> have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it

is a

> state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it,

that

> it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law,

and

> if so, can you site the law.

>

> After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it,

I

> plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

> believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little

safer.

>

July 6, 2008

I'm not sure of the point of carrying on the job. You can't carry the weapon

into the hospital as far as I know besides if you think you're going to need a

weapon why not just call for police backup?

If you drop the baby fake a seizure.

Subject: Re: carrying on the job.

To: texasems-l

Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 9:06 PM

There are some people that do not need to have access to a firearm

even if they have the right. For it to be carried the service would

have lots of liability. I would think you would have to have a

protocol established as to its use. I would also think you would

have to establish a training program for it.

As to specific law I do not know, perhaps one of our resident lawyers

can better answer.

Renny

>

> Why??

>

> _____

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems-

l (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com] On

> Behalf Of brandonjones36

> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:54 PM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com

> Subject: carrying on the job.

>

> Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success

to

> look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

> have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it

is a

> state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it,

that

> it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law,

and

> if so, can you site the law.

>

> After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it,

I

> plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

> believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little

safer.

>

July 6, 2008

My idea of safety is staging and calling for better trained backup.not

squaring off.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of shannon beltran

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 9:10 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: carrying on the job.

I'm not sure of the point of carrying on the job. You can't carry the weapon

into the hospital as far as I know besides if you think you're going to need

a weapon why not just call for police backup?

If you drop the baby fake a seizure.

From: spenair <spenair@... <mailto:spenair%40yahoo.com> >

Subject: Re: carrying on the job.

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 9:06 PM

There are some people that do not need to have access to a firearm

even if they have the right. For it to be carried the service would

have lots of liability. I would think you would have to have a

protocol established as to its use. I would also think you would

have to establish a training program for it.

As to specific law I do not know, perhaps one of our resident lawyers

can better answer.

Renny

>

> Why??

>

> _____

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems-

l (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com] On

> Behalf Of brandonjones36

> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:54 PM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com

> Subject: carrying on the job.

>

> Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success

to

> look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

> have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it

is a

> state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it,

that

> it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law,

and

> if so, can you site the law.

>

> After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it,

I

> plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

> believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little

safer.

>

July 6, 2008

Medics have traditionally been neutral and unarmed. It keeps more people alive

than packing would.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. "

Proverbs 22:3

July 6, 2008

I see one of Gene's " what now " scenarios coming up....You're in the back of an

ambulance with a diabetic or mental or whatever rowdy pt and he says he'll kill

you if you try to take his b/p one more time.....do you pull out your .45 and

tell him to relax? Or just go ahead and shoot him?

Hey .... " challenging " state or federal laws or company policies can eat

up an EMT's salary....even in MO.

Rethink Buddy.

carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

I teach my students 's Rule of EMS #1 - " Finish the shift with as many

holes as you started with " Shootouts are not a way to accomplish that.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. "

Proverbs 22:3

July 6, 2008

I might start with chemical restraints, but if that doesn't work I would

bring the heat. But wait wouldn't that be a lot of extra paperwork, guess I

will stick to the drug usage form for now.

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Shaw, Kenny

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 9:32 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: carrying on the job.

I see one of Gene's " what now " scenarios coming up....You're in the back of

an ambulance with a diabetic or mental or whatever rowdy pt and he says

he'll kill you if you try to take his b/p one more time.....do you pull out

your .45 and tell him to relax? Or just go ahead and shoot him?

Hey .... " challenging " state or federal laws or company policies can

eat up an EMT's salary....even in MO.

Rethink Buddy.

carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

My opinion on the subject can be found here:

http://ambulancedriverfiles.blogspot.com/2007/01/armed-emt.html

--

Grayson, CCEMT-P

www.kellygrayson.com

July 6, 2008

What is your need or desire to carry on the job? Leave security and

safety up to Law Enforcement, thats what they get paid for.

carrying on the job.

To: texasems-l

> Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success

> to

> look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

> have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it

> is a

> state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it,

> that

> it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law,

> and

> if so, can you site the law.

>

> After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it,

> I

> plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller.

> I

> believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

>

July 6, 2008

This is of my own personal opinion when I say this, so if I offend anyone....

Well tough you know what...

I beleive that there is absolutely no place for a " Medic " , EMT or any other

medical personnel to be carrying any type of weapon period... Our job is to

" SAVE " lives and aid the sick and injured.. Not to take a life, and definately

cause no harm! If you want to carry a weapon, well you have a couple of

options. Become a police officer, or you can join the military and be a combat

medic.

If you are worried about defending yourself in the line of duty, well all I can

say is this. If you feel unsecure going into anywhere you should call for your

local police or sheriffs department to come and secure the scene, or there is

another way and that is to learn some weaponless combat training in something

like Aikido, Ju-Jitsu, Judo, Kenpo, Kapap and Krav Maga: a self-defense system

developed by the special armed forces of Israel; San Shou: developed for Chinese

armed forces; Kombato: developed for the Brazilian armed forces; and Rough and

Tumble (RAT): originally developed for the South African special forces

(Reconnaissance Commandos) (now taught in a civilian capacity). take your pick.

All in all though, we are not to cause or bring harm to those we serving, which

the " we " is the general or non-general public. But once again, I have to say

that this is my own personal opinion on the matter.

FieldMedic:

Somewhere in Austin Texas

Be Warned, my opinions are my own and spoken from my own two lips. They do not

express the views or concerns of those for whom I work with or support. Once

again, the words contained herein are strictly of my own opinions.

" There is no darkness like that of IGNORANCE "

________________________________

carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

I have pondered the clinical side of this issue. There is none. All of the

attorneys on this list had to pop a NTG after this post (except the personal

injury attorneys who started looking at the Bentley/Rolls Royce web site.)

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of brandonjones36

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:54 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

I'm now thinking of going into personal injury law after reading that.?? While

there's definitely a right to have weapons (and one that I support), there's an

entirely different angle when you're carrying a weapon at work and believe that

you may end up using it in the line of your job.

-Wes Ogilvie

-Austin, Texas

carrying on the job.

Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

if so, can you site the law.

After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

July 6, 2008

If anyone were to carry a weapon on duty, I think it would put all of us

at risk. EMS, just like the fire department, is a very special area of

Public Safety because we're unarmed, and people know that we're unarmed.

While some people may use that against us, it makes most people a lot

more comfortable around us. Some service's uniforms (i won't name any

names, but you know, the ones that wear dark shirts with shiny badges on

them) are already too close to looking like a police uniform, and that's

a good way to get shot at if you're in the wrong neighborhood!

Bottom line, from a clinical standpoint, there are certain patient

populations that you're going to get way more information out of if they

know you aren't a cop and you're not armed. From a clinical standpoint,

this allows us to make better clinical judgments and formulate more

appropriate treatment plans based on the circumstances!

-Ben

PS: I'm a big guy, and not a lot scares me, but if someone starts

shooting at me (regardless if I am armed or not), I'll be doing my

infamous stop, drop and roll move!

brandonjones36 wrote:

>

> Hi all, I am an EMT in MO. I have been trying with little success to

> look into the legalities of carrying a firearm on the ambulance. I

> have been told that there is a federal law against it, or that it is a

> state law. I've also been told that there is no law against it, that

> it is just a policy. Does anyone know if there is a federal law, and

> if so, can you site the law.

>

> After getting all the facts, if there is in fact a law against it, I

> plan on challenging it with the recent ruling in D.C. vs. Heller. I

> believe this is something we can win, and make our job a little safer.

>

July 6, 2008

Ben with the Oakley Sunglasses wrote, " I'll be doing my infamous stop, drop

and roll move! " I think that is when your clothes are on fire, not when you

are under fire.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Ben Oakley

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:22 PM