The heat is on - my Big Brother is not meddling

[Guest guest]

OK, I'm on Week 3 of NC with nada.

I knew this point would come: she's harassed my brother enough that he has

stepped into the picture to urge me to call her and make up from my incident

with nada that he only has HER side of.  He left me a loong voicemail saying he

" doesn't want to meddle " and reminding me that " mom's getting older. "  I don't

intend to share my side with him. I doubt he'll really get it. He just wants her

to stop calling him.

Anyway, right now, my heart is racing, my chest is constricting, my stomach is

doing jumps.  I know in my head, " hey, he can't MAKE me do anything. "  But he's

very, very good at guilting me.  I'm getting better at holding on through the

guilt attack, but it was an ambush this morning.

Just to give background on him: his relationship with her has gotten, imo,

progressively weirder as the years have gone on after my father died.  She calls

him her " right hand " and he acts like her husband or something. He calls her

TWICE a day, once in the morning and once at night.  She told me he once

complained to her, something like, " Mom, why do I have to call you twice a day??

I have stuff to do. "  I felt so bad for him that he's asking her this, like he's

12.  She was incredibly put out by his extraordinarily insensitive request. He

also visits her every other weekend so she won't be so lonely. Sigh.

The day of my ugly encounter with nada a few weeks back, she came against her

will to a restaurant with me and my family before my brother's film screening.

She called him on her cell to " tell " on me, that we were eating, when he had

bought a lot of food for the screening. (Hey my kids were hungry and weren't

waiting!) She handed me the phone and he said, " Did I hear right? Mom said

you're EATING before coming?? "  I felt like I was talking to my father!!   I

don't think he realized how knee deep he is in this dysfunctional relationship.

 *I* didn't either until I began to step back more and more.

Please don't think I'm saying I've arrived and am looking down on him. I'm not,

I just don't want to get enmeshed again.

I don't know what to do. I don't mind talking to my mother again, but her way of

doing it is taking up like we were before, as though NOTHING had happened. I

can't do that. I want an apology. I want her to understand that I feel worse

about myself when I'm with her but, as Annie wisely said previously, I don't

need her buy-in to go more LC with her. 

I don't know what to say to him. I'll probably just email him. Talking to him

makes the guilts worse. He just called me again but I'm not picking up.  I don't

know what he wants me to say. What would you say? 

Fiona

[Guest guest]

Well, if he doesn't want to call it " meddling " , then call it " triangulation " or

being a " flying monkey. " Its the same thing.

My suggestion, what I would say, is to reassure your brother that you hear him,

you hear his concern for your nada, but that your issue with your nada is

between you and her, only. Period.

You are not going to involve him in it, or discuss nada with him. You are not

going to put him in the middle, and that means the topic of nada is off the

table for discussion between you. Ask him if there is anything else he wants to

talk with you about. If there isn't, then, there are several things need your

immediate attention. " I love you, I'm hanging up now, 'bye. "

So, I'm suggesting that if you use " Medium Chill " techniques with your Big

Brother, and just calmly and neutrally refuse to discuss nada with him, and

calmly and politely just let him know that you're going to hang up if he tries

to force the subject anyway, then you'll eventually get through to him that you

are in control of this aspect of your relationship.

An addendum: if it has reached the point where you believe your nada is no

longer able to care for herself properly, then yes, you and your brother need to

discuss nada's future together RE her living arrangements, her need for assisted

living, power of attorney, etc. But you are not obligated to spend your free

time making yourself available to be her emotional punching bag. If Big Brother

wants to do that, then, that's his choice. Nada's feelings are off the table

for discussion with Big Brother, but you could discuss her physical/financial

welfare and her health care needs.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> OK, I'm on Week 3 of NC with nada.

>

> I knew this point would come: she's harassed my brother enough that he has

stepped into the picture to urge me to call her and make up from my incident

with nada that he only has HER side of.  He left me a loong voicemail saying he

" doesn't want to meddle " and reminding me that " mom's getting older. "  I don't

intend to share my side with him. I doubt he'll really get it. He just wants her

to stop calling him.

>

> Anyway, right now, my heart is racing, my chest is constricting, my stomach is

doing jumps.  I know in my head, " hey, he can't MAKE me do anything. "  But he's

very, very good at guilting me.  I'm getting better at holding on through the

guilt attack, but it was an ambush this morning.

>

> Just to give background on him: his relationship with her has gotten, imo,

progressively weirder as the years have gone on after my father died.  She calls

him her " right hand " and he acts like her husband or something. He calls her

TWICE a day, once in the morning and once at night.  She told me he once

complained to her, something like, " Mom, why do I have to call you twice a day??

I have stuff to do. "  I felt so bad for him that he's asking her this, like he's

12.  She was incredibly put out by his extraordinarily insensitive request. He

also visits her every other weekend so she won't be so lonely. Sigh.

>

> The day of my ugly encounter with nada a few weeks back, she came against her

will to a restaurant with me and my family before my brother's film screening.

She called him on her cell to " tell " on me, that we were eating, when he had

bought a lot of food for the screening. (Hey my kids were hungry and weren't

waiting!) She handed me the phone and he said, " Did I hear right? Mom said

you're EATING before coming?? "  I felt like I was talking to my father!!   I

don't think he realized how knee deep he is in this dysfunctional relationship.

 *I* didn't either until I began to step back more and more.

>

> Please don't think I'm saying I've arrived and am looking down on him. I'm

not, I just don't want to get enmeshed again.

>

> I don't know what to do. I don't mind talking to my mother again, but her way

of doing it is taking up like we were before, as though NOTHING had happened. I

can't do that. I want an apology. I want her to understand that I feel worse

about myself when I'm with her but, as Annie wisely said previously, I don't

need her buy-in to go more LC with her. 

>

> I don't know what to say to him. I'll probably just email him. Talking to him

makes the guilts worse. He just called me again but I'm not picking up.  I don't

know what he wants me to say. What would you say? 

>

> Fiona

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't remember if you informed your nada why yoou were taking a break from

her, but if you have not that might. Be a good place to start. When I refused to

intervene on nadas behalf with my brother I told her that her son has a right to

feel how he feels and that I would not deliver any more messages to either of

them! Brother was guilty of expecting me to punish nada for him in the not so

distant past! I told her that I ALWAYS got caught in the crossfire between them

and one or both of them always turned on me ( usually nada).

When nada would bring up brother I would give her a few minutes to remember my

boundaries about it being perfectly silent until she would stop and say " Are you

still there? " and I would reiterate that this was going into territory that I

did NOT go to. That she needed to change the subject or we needed to say goodbye

and hang up. It got so good that when I would clam up, she would stop herself

and huff " WELL I really don't want to talk about thar anyway! " LOL I had her

trained at least for now. I probably need to redefine and expand some of those

boundaries tho cause she is falling into some bad habits.

As far as your brother is concerned, all you can do is create some boundaries

with him like telling him that he IS meddling and to back off! You each have

your own unique relationship with your nada and some of the dysfunction is just

not acceptable and you are trying to create the best space for YOU to operate

in. My brother accepted that the rules had to apply to him as well as nada. If I

wasn't going to carry messages to him for her then I wouldn't carry his to her.

This was actually hard for me. I'm the big sister and was his protector/buffer

from nada for many years when he needed it. I'm ten years older so that was okay

when he was young, but he is a 34 year old man now.

Not sure if any of this is relatable to your situation and helpful, but I know

our group has many insiteful people and something will click.

Carla

>

> OK, I'm on Week 3 of NC with nada.

>

> I knew this point would come: she's harassed my brother enough that he has

stepped into the picture to urge me to call her and make up from my incident

with nada that he only has HER side of.  He left me a loong voicemail saying he

" doesn't want to meddle " and reminding me that " mom's getting older. "  I don't

intend to share my side with him. I doubt he'll really get it. He just wants her

to stop calling him.

>

> Anyway, right now, my heart is racing, my chest is constricting, my stomach is

doing jumps.  I know in my head, " hey, he can't MAKE me do anything. "  But he's

very, very good at guilting me.  I'm getting better at holding on through the

guilt attack, but it was an ambush this morning.

>

> Just to give background on him: his relationship with her has gotten, imo,

progressively weirder as the years have gone on after my father died.  She calls

him her " right hand " and he acts like her husband or something. He calls her

TWICE a day, once in the morning and once at night.  She told me he once

complained to her, something like, " Mom, why do I have to call you twice a day??

I have stuff to do. "  I felt so bad for him that he's asking her this, like he's

12.  She was incredibly put out by his extraordinarily insensitive request. He

also visits her every other weekend so she won't be so lonely. Sigh.

>

> The day of my ugly encounter with nada a few weeks back, she came against her

will to a restaurant with me and my family before my brother's film screening.

She called him on her cell to " tell " on me, that we were eating, when he had

bought a lot of food for the screening. (Hey my kids were hungry and weren't

waiting!) She handed me the phone and he said, " Did I hear right? Mom said

you're EATING before coming?? "  I felt like I was talking to my father!!   I

don't think he realized how knee deep he is in this dysfunctional relationship.

 *I* didn't either until I began to step back more and more.

>

> Please don't think I'm saying I've arrived and am looking down on him. I'm

not, I just don't want to get enmeshed again.

>

> I don't know what to do. I don't mind talking to my mother again, but her way

of doing it is taking up like we were before, as though NOTHING had happened. I

can't do that. I want an apology. I want her to understand that I feel worse

about myself when I'm with her but, as Annie wisely said previously, I don't

need her buy-in to go more LC with her. 

>

> I don't know what to say to him. I'll probably just email him. Talking to him

makes the guilts worse. He just called me again but I'm not picking up.  I don't

know what he wants me to say. What would you say? 

>

> Fiona

>

>

[Guest guest]

to Annie

We really need a " Like " button to quickly give our agreement and admiration to a

response!

To Fiona, one thing I forgot. Let go of the whole need for an apology, because

like soooo many things with our nadas, they come with too many strings attached

(and those strings usually turn out to be lit fuses, RUN it's a nada trap! (more

KO humor)

Carla

I laugh to survive

> >

> > OK, I'm on Week 3 of NC with nada.

> >

> > I knew this point would come: she's harassed my brother enough that he has

stepped into the picture to urge me to call her and make up from my incident

with nada that he only has HER side of.  He left me a loong voicemail saying he

" doesn't want to meddle " and reminding me that " mom's getting older. "  I don't

intend to share my side with him. I doubt he'll really get it. He just wants her

to stop calling him.

> >

> > Anyway, right now, my heart is racing, my chest is constricting, my stomach

is doing jumps.  I know in my head, " hey, he can't MAKE me do anything. "  But

he's very, very good at guilting me.  I'm getting better at holding on through

the guilt attack, but it was an ambush this morning.

> >

> > Just to give background on him: his relationship with her has gotten, imo,

progressively weirder as the years have gone on after my father died.  She calls

him her " right hand " and he acts like her husband or something. He calls her

TWICE a day, once in the morning and once at night.  She told me he once

complained to her, something like, " Mom, why do I have to call you twice a day??

I have stuff to do. "  I felt so bad for him that he's asking her this, like he's

12.  She was incredibly put out by his extraordinarily insensitive request. He

also visits her every other weekend so she won't be so lonely. Sigh.

> >

> > The day of my ugly encounter with nada a few weeks back, she came against

her will to a restaurant with me and my family before my brother's film

screening. She called him on her cell to " tell " on me, that we were eating, when

he had bought a lot of food for the screening. (Hey my kids were hungry and

weren't waiting!) She handed me the phone and he said, " Did I hear right? Mom

said you're EATING before coming?? "  I felt like I was talking to my father!!  

I don't think he realized how knee deep he is in this dysfunctional

relationship.  *I* didn't either until I began to step back more and more.

> >

> > Please don't think I'm saying I've arrived and am looking down on him. I'm

not, I just don't want to get enmeshed again.

> >

> > I don't know what to do. I don't mind talking to my mother again, but her

way of doing it is taking up like we were before, as though NOTHING had

happened. I can't do that. I want an apology. I want her to understand that I

feel worse about myself when I'm with her but, as Annie wisely said previously,

I don't need her buy-in to go more LC with her. 

> >

> > I don't know what to say to him. I'll probably just email him. Talking to

him makes the guilts worse. He just called me again but I'm not picking up.  I

don't know what he wants me to say. What would you say? 

> >

> > Fiona

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

 He left me a loong voicemail saying he " doesn't want to meddle " and reminding

me that " mom's getting older. "  

I haven't read the other replies yet, but here's my 2 cents:

If your brother *really* didn't want to meddle, he wouldn't.

He clearly has no problem getting all up in your business and telling you what

to do. And that clearly bothers you.

You do not have to contact your mother. And you do not have to contact your

brother. But if this were my brother, I would say something to him like, " It

bothers me that you got involved in this conflict with mom. I may make choices

that are different from yours, and I think that is okay. I would like to have a

relationship with you that does not involve talking about mom. In the future, I

would appreciate it if you would refrain from giving me advice unless I ask for

it. Do you think you would be willing to agree to that? "

[Guest guest]

" Mom's getting older "

WELL DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!!!!

Aren't we all????

That is a flying monkey hoover maneuver emotional black mail right there.

There is no other reason except to create guilt to bring that up. Oh forgive

me because I'm old. You are an old ass!!!!

> **

>

>

> I love it! I might copy and paste and send it off! Thank you!

>

> Thanks, Velvet Tears; I hope I have your courage.

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > OK, I'm on Week 3 of NC with nada.

> > > > >

> > > > > I knew this point would come: she's harassed my brother enough that

> he has stepped into the picture to urge me to call her and make up from my

> incident with nada that he only has HER side of. He left me a loong

> voicemail saying he " doesn't want to meddle " and reminding me that " mom's

> getting older. " I don't intend to share my side with him. I doubt he'll

> really get it. He just wants her to stop calling him.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, right now, my heart is racing, my chest is constricting, my

> stomach is doing jumps. I know in my head, " hey, he can't MAKE me do

> anything. " But he's very, very good at guilting me. I'm getting better at

> holding on through the guilt attack, but it was an ambush this morning.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just to give background on him: his relationship with her has

> gotten, imo, progressively weirder as the years have gone on after my father

> died. She calls him her " right hand " and he acts like her husband or

> something. He calls her TWICE a day, once in the morning and once at night.

> She told me he once complained to her, something like, " Mom, why do I have

> to call you twice a day?? I have stuff to do. " I felt so bad for him that

> he's asking her this, like he's 12. She was incredibly put out by his

> extraordinarily insensitive request. He also visits her every other weekend

> so she won't be so lonely. Sigh.

> > > > >

> > > > > The day of my ugly encounter with nada a few weeks back, she came

> against her will to a restaurant with me and my family before my brother's

> film screening. She called him on her cell to " tell " on me, that we were

> eating, when he had bought a lot of food for the screening. (Hey my kids

> were hungry and weren't waiting!) She handed me the phone and he said, " Did

> I hear right? Mom said you're EATING before coming?? " I felt like I was

> talking to my father!! I don't think he realized how knee deep he is in

> this dysfunctional relationship. *I* didn't either until I began to step

> back more and more.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please don't think I'm saying I've arrived and am looking down on

> him. I'm not, I just don't want to get enmeshed again.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know what to do. I don't mind talking to my mother again,

> but her way of doing it is taking up like we were before, as though NOTHING

> had happened. I can't do that. I want an apology. I want her to understand

> that I feel worse about myself when I'm with her but, as Annie wisely said

> previously, I don't need her buy-in to go more LC with her.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know what to say to him. I'll probably just email him.

> Talking to him makes the guilts worse. He just called me again but I'm not

> picking up. I don't know what he wants me to say. What would you say?

> > > > >

> > > > > Fiona

> > > > >

> > > > >