Pretty sure it hasn't reached 32 degrees!

[Guest guest]

So today is two months since my DH died. I called nada for a few minutes to

talk, not about DH, but just to check in. I got an extra whiney message on

Sunday from her. I had told her at LEAST 3X that I was going to be out of town

this weekend with my BFF since grade school that was out here visiting. She was

whining about never knowing when to call me and never getting an answer when she

calls etcetera. I have already put her in time out once about leaving an abusive

message on my voicemail, now she is trying to guilt me into more frequent

contact. As we were talking today, she took me calling her without having

received a message from her first as a good sign and decided to start her FOG

campaign about moving back " home " and how she will pay for my moving expenses

and it doesn't even matter if I move four hours away, as long as I am closer and

how " they " have had me out here for all these years and now I'm needed and

wanted back home. I have no idea who " they " are she is referring to. My in-laws

live two states and an 8 1/2 hour drive away. There are a few cousins and

aunts/uncles out here, but not that many and they are DH's family. I have some

good friends and a dozen or so clients. One of my closest friends just moved

back out here and I am hoping that another friend and his wife will be back here

in the next year or less.

Does this woman think I am brain dead? She verbally attacked me the day after my

husbands memorial and even let it slip that it was revenge for a perceived

wrong! I need a temp reading down in hell, cause it will need to be freezing

over before I consider cutting the distance between us from 1100 miles down to

300 or less! If anything, I would like to be further away. I'm thinking Hawaii

sounds pretty good!

C

[Guest guest]

Sounds like my nada's behaviors; she felt she could voice any abrasive, rude,

critical, embarrassing, inappropriate thing she felt like saying to me, about

me, and that it was OK and there would be no consequences. The fact that the

things she said hurt my feelings deeply and/or weren't even valid, did not

register with her. And yet, if I brought it up even in a gentle way ( " Mom, that

really hurt my feelings " ) then she'd either trigger into a rage (rage was the

more common response when we were younger) or nada would burst into tears and

accuse *me* of being mean and hateful to *her*.

It was basically a No Win situation: nada was always right; I was never right.

It was never OK to criticize nada in any way. Period.

In some cases, the only option is to reduce contact to a bare minimum, or

eliminate contact altogether, if the person with bpd simply cannot be reasoned

with and is chronically, frequently, and intensely abusive.

In my opinion someone who is so emotionally brittle that they cannot or will not

tolerate ANY criticism of any sort is too unstable to be raising a child. It

will never cease to astonish me that it isn't clearly, clearly obvious that

someone evidencing any 5 of the 9 BPD diagnostic criteria is WAY too mentally

ill to be entrusted with the care of a child.

-Annie

>

> So today is two months since my DH died. I called nada for a few minutes to

talk, not about DH, but just to check in. I got an extra whiney message on

Sunday from her. I had told her at LEAST 3X that I was going to be out of town

this weekend with my BFF since grade school that was out here visiting. She was

whining about never knowing when to call me and never getting an answer when she

calls etcetera. I have already put her in time out once about leaving an abusive

message on my voicemail, now she is trying to guilt me into more frequent

contact. As we were talking today, she took me calling her without having

received a message from her first as a good sign and decided to start her FOG

campaign about moving back " home " and how she will pay for my moving expenses

and it doesn't even matter if I move four hours away, as long as I am closer and

how " they " have had me out here for all these years and now I'm needed and

wanted back home. I have no idea who " they " are she is referring to. My in-laws

live two states and an 8 1/2 hour drive away. There are a few cousins and

aunts/uncles out here, but not that many and they are DH's family. I have some

good friends and a dozen or so clients. One of my closest friends just moved

back out here and I am hoping that another friend and his wife will be back here

in the next year or less.

>

> Does this woman think I am brain dead? She verbally attacked me the day after

my husbands memorial and even let it slip that it was revenge for a perceived

wrong! I need a temp reading down in hell, cause it will need to be freezing

over before I consider cutting the distance between us from 1100 miles down to

300 or less! If anything, I would like to be further away. I'm thinking Hawaii

sounds pretty good!

>

> C

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses like

BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But even

with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with their

abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have the same

strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse, so it

follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have abused

in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 3:06 PM

Subject: Re: Pretty sure it hasn't reached 32 degrees!

Â

Sounds like my nada's behaviors; she felt she could voice any abrasive, rude,

critical, embarrassing, inappropriate thing she felt like saying to me, about

me, and that it was OK and there would be no consequences. The fact that the

things she said hurt my feelings deeply and/or weren't even valid, did not

register with her. And yet, if I brought it up even in a gentle way ( " Mom, that

really hurt my feelings " ) then she'd either trigger into a rage (rage was the

more common response when we were younger) or nada would burst into tears and

accuse *me* of being mean and hateful to *her*.

It was basically a No Win situation: nada was always right; I was never right.

It was never OK to criticize nada in any way. Period.

In some cases, the only option is to reduce contact to a bare minimum, or

eliminate contact altogether, if the person with bpd simply cannot be reasoned

with and is chronically, frequently, and intensely abusive.

In my opinion someone who is so emotionally brittle that they cannot or will not

tolerate ANY criticism of any sort is too unstable to be raising a child. It

will never cease to astonish me that it isn't clearly, clearly obvious that

someone evidencing any 5 of the 9 BPD diagnostic criteria is WAY too mentally

ill to be entrusted with the care of a child.

-Annie

>

> So today is two months since my DH died. I called nada for a few minutes to

talk, not about DH, but just to check in. I got an extra whiney message on

Sunday from her. I had told her at LEAST 3X that I was going to be out of town

this weekend with my BFF since grade school that was out here visiting. She was

whining about never knowing when to call me and never getting an answer when she

calls etcetera. I have already put her in time out once about leaving an abusive

message on my voicemail, now she is trying to guilt me into more frequent

contact. As we were talking today, she took me calling her without having

received a message from her first as a good sign and decided to start her FOG

campaign about moving back " home " and how she will pay for my moving expenses

and it doesn't even matter if I move four hours away, as long as I am closer and

how " they " have had me out here for all these years and now I'm needed and

wanted back home. I have no idea

who " they " are she is referring to. My in-laws live two states and an 8 1/2

hour drive away. There are a few cousins and aunts/uncles out here, but not that

many and they are DH's family. I have some good friends and a dozen or so

clients. One of my closest friends just moved back out here and I am hoping that

another friend and his wife will be back here in the next year or less.

>

> Does this woman think I am brain dead? She verbally attacked me the day after

my husbands memorial and even let it slip that it was revenge for a perceived

wrong! I need a temp reading down in hell, cause it will need to be freezing

over before I consider cutting the distance between us from 1100 miles down to

300 or less! If anything, I would like to be further away. I'm thinking Hawaii

sounds pretty good!

>

> C

>

[Guest guest]

Mine could tell I was not happy about her asking me to move back and said I

needed to not be (rude) to her about it. She knows how much I detest living

there. I went home for half the summer two summers in a row and it was fun, but

there was always an end in sight. I knew I wasn't stuck there. I wanted to get

the hell outta there from the time I was probably twelve years old and finally

did when I was twenty. I love my friends and family back there, but I can only

bite my tongue for so long. I like to refer to my hometown and surrounding area

as " redneck hell " I don't think I could ever be happy there again even without

nada around. I'm just to progressive in my thinking I suppose. I told my son

that nada wants us to move back there and he said " mom, I like going to visit,

but not just no, but hell no! " He is so funny.

I called my brother, whom she did manage to FOG into moving back there and told

him what she had said to me and it was the same speech she used on him four

years ago. I am sure there is more to come. She is really gonna be pissed when

he moves back out here to be near me. He is currently NC with her and has been

for over three years now. When she was in the middle of her FOG campaign to get

him back in her clutches, she called me and told me to not meddle and that she

needed him and that I " better mind my own Effing business and not try to talk

him out of it and I had stolen him from her and it was time to let her have him

back " REALLY? The nerve of this woman! UGH.

I'm sure I will have lots more to say on this in the days, weeks and months to

come. Stay tuned =/

C

[Guest guest]

The problem is some of these folks are so high functioning around non-family

that no one would ever believe what happens behind closed doors. No one would

ever even believe they have significant mental illness without something really

overt and public. The kids are in a real catch-22....if they don't say

anything they can't get help, if they do they look like they are slandering

their wonderful mother.

Eliza

>

> I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have the

same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse, so

it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your reasoning; I hope that some day those with moderate to severe

bpd (with or without other Cluster B disorders or Axis I disorders) will be

considered in the same category of dangerous as a pedophile and not be left

alone with children, unsupervised.

Its just not registering yet with the public that chronic emotional abuse and

neglect by a parent (with or without physical abuse and neglect) can cause

severe trauma and emotional damage to a child, just as severe and just as

long-term as being sexually violated by a parent.

I think this is partly due to a cultural and historical prejudice in favor of

parents in general and mothers in particular. The general public doesn't like

to think about the reality that there are mentally ill mothers out there

damaging and neglecting and exploiting their children. Unfortunately, the

children of high-functioning but toxic, personality-disordered parents are

basically screwed.

-Annie

>

> I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have the

same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse, so

it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree; the children of toxic but high-functioning bpd parents are basically

screwed. Their only possible source of help is the other, non-pd parent. But,

usually the pd individual chooses a spouse they can dominate and control, or

they choose a " rescuer " , an enmeshed dishrag of a spouse who won't rock the

boat. It truly is a Catch 22 situation for the children of mentally ill but

high-functioning parents.

-Annie

> >

> > I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have the

same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse, so

it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

my problem was that nada did an admirable job of presenting me as

" over-reactive " and unreliable emotionally.

" moving home. " yes never. my family is slowly moving closer together. some are

within a few miles. most live in a 60 mile radius. I jokingly call it the

" family compund " they have to get together to celebrate every little thing, and

many think I am terrible to not " want to be part of things " I would have to be a

millionatre to afford all the travel.

there is so much drama around it all. one sister hates everything about it. they

moved back because her husband disenchanted with his job applied for a handful

and got one there, and (this is a secret of course) my parents paid for their

house, and they are " paying them back " my sister hates the house. my parents

also bought another nicer house and are renting it to another sister and her

family. two siblings have houses they want to sell in the area but of course the

parents bought a different one, so all those siblings are mad/would not talk to

the sister who go the new house.

there is a precedent that we will have a reunion every 2 years, and thanksgiving

every other year in between. those of us who don't (can't) come to every one are

terrible parents and don't want our kids to " spend time with their cousins "

there are a few of us who are outliers. because my husband is in grad school we

are forgiven for living so far. but it is expected of us to " move home "

eventully. (ASAP)and we are asked weekly when we will.

my nada also expects us to give birth at acceptaqble intervals (every 2 years or

less) untill we can't any more. and she has a lot to say when we don't measure

up. she needs babies. they are the only people alive who meet her expectations.

as long as they can be calmed down and are'nt bad babies. she comes to " help "

(hog the baby) for a week following all births even when it is a sister-in law.

becasue as she says. " those babies are mine " my husband hates these visits too

because he is expected to stay out of her way, and do everything hers. she is

the one and only living baby expert.

I too fear being sucked in. I have a reoccurring nightmare that my husband dies

and I am coerced into moving in with my parents. I have a plan if that ever

happens.

if there is a " them " keeping you from Nada I say let " them " win (:

Meikjn

> >

> > I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have the

same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse, so

it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean. My nada was high functioning like that. When out in

public, she would put her nice face on and no-one could even tell that she had a

serious mental illness. But back home was a different story. It was very much

like " dr jeckyl, mr. hyde " scenario. I remember going to her GP for her check

ups and she was so good at hiding her true face. I could not for me life work

out how when she could abuse and accuse me of everything under the sun, then go

and see her GP and be aperfectly normal person. It was kind of freaky. And it is

a catch 22 for the children, believe me I know. I was in that position for

pretty much my whole childhood life. It was only last year that I realised what

nada was doing was cruel and I needed to get out of there.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 6:26 PM

Subject: Re: Pretty sure it hasn't reached 32 degrees!

 

The problem is some of these folks are so high functioning around non-family

that no one would ever believe what happens behind closed doors. No one would

ever even believe they have significant mental illness without something really

overt and public. The kids are in a real catch-22....if they don't say

anything they can't get help, if they do they look like they are slandering

their wonderful mother.

Eliza

>

> I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have

the same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse,

so it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

>

[Guest guest]

I know and it is sad that emotional and psychological abuse is not recognised as

being just as damaging as physical and sexual abuse. There seems to not be as

much public awareness about emotional abuse particularly from people who have

BPD. Even some medical professionals continue to stick their heads in the sand

and say that BPD doesn't even exist as a registered mental illness. Its just

unfair on the children who have to endure their BPD parent's abuse day-in,

day-out without any help for them in sight.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Saturday, 21 January 2012 1:21 AM

Subject: Re: Pretty sure it hasn't reached 32 degrees!

 

I agree with your reasoning; I hope that some day those with moderate to severe

bpd (with or without other Cluster B disorders or Axis I disorders) will be

considered in the same category of dangerous as a pedophile and not be left

alone with children, unsupervised.

Its just not registering yet with the public that chronic emotional abuse and

neglect by a parent (with or without physical abuse and neglect) can cause

severe trauma and emotional damage to a child, just as severe and just as

long-term as being sexually violated by a parent.

I think this is partly due to a cultural and historical prejudice in favor of

parents in general and mothers in particular. The general public doesn't like

to think about the reality that there are mentally ill mothers out there

damaging and neglecting and exploiting their children. Unfortunately, the

children of high-functioning but toxic, personality-disordered parents are

basically screwed.

-Annie

>

> I agree with you Annie. These people who have such serious mental illnesses

like BPD should never be in the care of a child unless they are supervised. But

even with supervision, it sometimes doesn't deter them from carrying on with

their abusive bahaviour. I reckon BPD parents who have children should have

the same strict vigilence as peadophiles. They both have the potential to abuse,

so it follows the same principals. If it is known that these ill parents have

abused in the past, its just the more important to protect the child from their

behaviour.

>