UGH, I'm not moving back home

[Guest guest]

well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She really

has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is out for

my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in on the

19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go back to

school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident status and

end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I can remind

her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was " terribly

disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next four years

while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her bonnet when

she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE! I finally

found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got done

writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through. I

feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or two

sobbing.

C

[Guest guest]

Big hugs C.

I know it hurts and is sooo frustrating but I hope you can find some peace and

space to breathe.

LT

>

> well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She really

has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is out for

my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in on the

19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go back to

school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident status and

end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I can remind

her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was " terribly

disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next four years

while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her bonnet when

she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE! I finally

found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got done

writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through. I

feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or two

sobbing.

>

> C

>

[Guest guest]

Your nada's insensitivity to your feelings is so... typical of the borderline

and the narcissistic mind-set. Its flabbergasting, how blind and deaf they are

to the needs and feelings of others. I personally think that the underlying

condition of all the Cluster B pds is an astonishing degree of self-absorption,

or narcissism, that makes them place their own needs and feelings above those of

others virtually all the time.

Other people (including the bpd/npd's children) only exist to serve the

bpd/npd's needs, or, other people ARE the bpd/npd person; its such a alien

mind-set that its hard to even grasp. Its the mind-set of a three month old

infant who does not comprehend that he is a separate entity from mommy.

My parents moved away from me, it was their own choice and decision to relocate

back to the east coast where we were from originally, and that happened back

when I was in my mid thirties. My nada began bringing up to me shortly

afterward: " why don't you move back here? Move here, live with us. When are

you going to move here?, etc. " She kept that up pretty much until she died last

month; 30 years' worth of " Can I have a cookie? " in a manner of speaking.

Well, I'd finally established a career for myself and friends and the west coast

felt like home to me. So each time nada brought that up, I reminded her that it

was she herself and dad who decided to move away from me, and I had followed

them like a loyal little dog before, but now I had a life of my own. That would

silence her... that time. I had to remind nada each time she brought it up,

which was numberless.

I think most bpd people never evolve past a two-year-old's level of emotional

development. They are highly narcissistic and if they want something they will

keep repeating it, like the classic " Are we there yet? " or " Can I have a

cookie? " over, and over, and over until you want to scream. (or until their

frustration triggers them into a rage-tantrum or hysterical crying jag.)

So, my own personal opinion is that with a nada, we adult daughters and sons

have to just, well, take the reins. We have to take the wheel and be the

driver, be the adult, in the relationship.

Our borderline pd/narcissitic pd parents were never really " the adult " to begin

with; their disordered brains aren't capable of adult-level emotional responses

such as real empathy or real compassion, but we non-pd individuals have those

capabilities. (I now believe that my nada was capable of demonstrating empathy

and compassion for others, but ONLY if doing so coincided with her own need or

with a goal she herself had in mind to begin with. So her empathy and

compassion was kind of an optical illusion, in a manner of speaking.)

So we KOs have to, by necessity, BE the adult and make the adult decisions in

the relationship. We have to set the boundaries, make the rules, and enforce

them; compassionately if we possibly can, but in the case of highly toxic,

highly dangerous, destructive, hostile parents who are quite literally out to

destroy, then we also have to be the adults and decide that our own safety and

the safety of our spouse and children is more important than pleasing the

momster.

That's my take on it anyway. I'm so sorry your nada is being a torment to you

instead of a comfort.

-Annie

>

>

> >

> > well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She

really has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is

out for my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in

on the 19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go

back to school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident

status and end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I

can remind her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was

" terribly disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next

four years while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her

bonnet when she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE!

I finally found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got

done writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through.

I feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or

two sobbing.

> >

> > C

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear C,

Your post reminds me of my own nada's response when I first left home. I was a

teenager who had gained admission to an extremely competetive boarding school.

It was the first step in my professional future, and a very positive move on my

part. But every time I expressed any kindof difficulty I was going through,

instead of support and assistance from nada, I would get a very disgusted,

sighing, 'when are you coming HOME', 'do you want to come HOME', Charlie?

Luckily I was teenager-y enough at this point to get mad when she would do this.

Which was the apprpriate response. I think one thing that's so HARD about it,

C, is that nada so does not have the child's best interest in mind. Instead of

thinking about how to comfort you in your grief and the difficulty of starting

over, widowed, all your nada is doing is trying to hurt you and manipulate you

into coming 'home' (ie, merging with her and subjecting yourself to her

compulsive needs to harm you). It's a double whammy. It's also invalidating,

as if you can't handle being on your own, you are helpless and can't handle

being away from her. That's projection--that's nada's own problem, not the KOs.

So, this is a pattern, this is something nadas do. And it is unconscionable. I

hope that you have others in your life who are supporting you and lifting you up

instead.

--Charlie

>

> well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She really

has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is out for

my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in on the

19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go back to

school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident status and

end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I can remind

her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was " terribly

disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next four years

while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her bonnet when

she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE! I finally

found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got done

writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through. I

feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or two

sobbing.

>

> C

>

[Guest guest]

My nada also kept pestering me to move back home. I could never understand

why, because all she did when I WAS home was scream and yell at me and tell

me how I was ruining her life, killing her, causing her to drink, etc. I

moved, as a very young adult, to New York City (my parents were in Los

Angeles) to pursue my ambition of a career in musical theater. I absolutely

loved New York City, and although the jobs I got paid barely enough for me

to live on, I was happy there. I was also learning that other people did

NOT scream, yell, curse at me, denigrate me and threaten me, and nobody at

all was hitting me, kicking me or punching me. My life there, though

difficult financially, was a peaceful one.

A little while after I moved to NYC, I got a job as a musical

director/composer, and I really needed to have my own piano. I couldn't

afford one, and I couldn't afford to rent a practice studio. I knew that

the parents of all my young musician friends had either bought their kids

pianos or sent their kids the pianos they'd had at home. So I called my

parents and asked them to please send me my piano so I could compose, or

help me buy an old cheap piano, and they went totally ballistic. IF YOU

WANT YOUR #$ & *!#@ & * piano, then MOVE BACK HOME! My nada pulled out all her

emotional stops - I LOVE YOU SO MUCH AND YOU DON'T LOVE ME! WE HAVE A PIANO

RIGHT HERE FOR YOU, MY DARLING, IF YOU MOVE BACK HOME! YOU NOT BEING AT

HOME IS KILLING YOUR FATHER AND KILLING ME! I NEED YOU! YOU'RE ALL I HAVE!

YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART! COME HOME!!!!!! YOU DON " T KNOW WHAT LOVE IS! HOW

CAN YOU BE SO SELFISH AND UNGRATEFUL? On and on and on and on.

And this histrionic begging me to come home went on during every single

phone conversation I had with my parents, until I was 41 years old and

broke contact. Annie, you're so right - it's like a little child asking

over and and over " Can I have a cookie? " or " Are we there yet? "

I figure my nada wanted me home so much because she didn't have me right

there to guilt-trip, scream at, hit, come on to, etc. I think she truly

enjoyed watching me devolve into a trembling, crying mess. Sure, she could

scream at my father, but he'd either scream back even louder or just walk

out of the house. And she wouldn't dare hit him because he was bigger and

stronger than she was - plus he'd been a prizefighter in his younger years,

and still worked out daily. (I was much shorter than my 5'2 " nada because

my growth was stunted by the amphetamines she'd forced me to take, and I

was never physically strong).

The BPD wants what they want, when they want it, and they'll try everything

in their power to wear you down until they get it.

My nada didn't care about what made me comfortable, or happy. She had no

interest in finding out if there was any way she could help ease the major

depression from which I was suffering. She had absolutely no empathy - at

least none towards me. If not for a few good friends, I would have had no

idea what empathy was until I was well into adulthood.

My father very occasionally said things that made me think maybe he did

care a little bit, but then he'd suddenly change his tune and go along with

whatever my mother was saying - or, I should say, demanding.

Yesterday one of my best friends came over to visit. As soon as she walked

in the door, I could tell she was sad about something, so I asked her what

was wrong. She sat down, started to cry, and told me what had been going on

that made her so sad. I listened. We talked about her situation for a

while. And she felt better afterwards.

When I would come into my parents' house looking sad or down, nobody would

ask me what was wrong. One or both of them would immediately start verbally

and physically attacking me. It was like the reverse of empathy.

Judy

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 9:15 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Your nada's insensitivity to your feelings is so... typical of the

> borderline and the narcissistic mind-set. Its flabbergasting, how blind and

> deaf they are to the needs and feelings of others. I personally think that

> the underlying condition of all the Cluster B pds is an astonishing degree

> of self-absorption, or narcissism, that makes them place their own needs

> and feelings above those of others virtually all the time.

>

> Other people (including the bpd/npd's children) only exist to serve the

> bpd/npd's needs, or, other people ARE the bpd/npd person; its such a alien

> mind-set that its hard to even grasp. Its the mind-set of a three month old

> infant who does not comprehend that he is a separate entity from mommy.

>

> My parents moved away from me, it was their own choice and decision to

> relocate back to the east coast where we were from originally, and that

> happened back when I was in my mid thirties. My nada began bringing up to

> me shortly afterward: " why don't you move back here? Move here, live with

> us. When are you going to move here?, etc. " She kept that up pretty much

> until she died last month; 30 years' worth of " Can I have a cookie? " in a

> manner of speaking.

>

> Well, I'd finally established a career for myself and friends and the west

> coast felt like home to me. So each time nada brought that up, I reminded

> her that it was she herself and dad who decided to move away from me, and I

> had followed them like a loyal little dog before, but now I had a life of

> my own. That would silence her... that time. I had to remind nada each time

> she brought it up, which was numberless.

>

> I think most bpd people never evolve past a two-year-old's level of

> emotional development. They are highly narcissistic and if they want

> something they will keep repeating it, like the classic " Are we there yet? "

> or " Can I have a cookie? " over, and over, and over until you want to

> scream. (or until their frustration triggers them into a rage-tantrum or

> hysterical crying jag.)

>

> So, my own personal opinion is that with a nada, we adult daughters and

> sons have to just, well, take the reins. We have to take the wheel and be

> the driver, be the adult, in the relationship.

>

> Our borderline pd/narcissitic pd parents were never really " the adult " to

> begin with; their disordered brains aren't capable of adult-level emotional

> responses such as real empathy or real compassion, but we non-pd

> individuals have those capabilities. (I now believe that my nada was

> capable of demonstrating empathy and compassion for others, but ONLY if

> doing so coincided with her own need or with a goal she herself had in mind

> to begin with. So her empathy and compassion was kind of an optical

> illusion, in a manner of speaking.)

>

> So we KOs have to, by necessity, BE the adult and make the adult decisions

> in the relationship. We have to set the boundaries, make the rules, and

> enforce them; compassionately if we possibly can, but in the case of highly

> toxic, highly dangerous, destructive, hostile parents who are quite

> literally out to destroy, then we also have to be the adults and decide

> that our own safety and the safety of our spouse and children is more

> important than pleasing the momster.

>

> That's my take on it anyway. I'm so sorry your nada is being a torment to

> you instead of a comfort.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> >

> > >

> > > well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She

> really has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school

> is out for my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She

> started in on the 19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if

> I want to go back to school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my

> state resident status and end up paying much higher out of state tuition

> rates. ( I figure I can remind her that I would rather live anywhere but

> there later ) She was " terribly disappointed " that I will have to remain

> here for at least the next four years while pursuing my education. She is

> really gonna have a bee in her bonnet when she figures out that I have NO

> INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE! I finally found an online support

> group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got done writing a BOOK and

> barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through. I feel

> significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or two

> sobbing.

> > >

> > > C

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Charlie, it's not so much about Her thinking I can't handle things. She knows

that even before my husbands death, that I was the person that got the repairs

done around the house and the remodeling etc. He was the one that did the

majority of the cooking and " straighening " I was the one that did the deep

cleaning. There isn't a single thing that my husband did in our marriage that I

couldn't do myself. About the only thing that I am not very good at is timing

things out to get done at the same time when cooking, and even that I am getting

better at. I miss his cooking. I can cook, but not as well.

I worry that my mother will do something to sabatoge me in regard to finances. I

am not dependent upon her for anything, thank God, but she has been paying my

car payment for now to help out. I could pay it, but it is a help while I am

getting readjusted. I am thinking that after this coming month, I will take it

back over and have one less thing that she can attempt to hang over my head. I

have been monitoring the payments and making sure she is making them. I have a

loan that I HAVE to pay off by the end of this month so I don't end up with

penalties. It is a pretty darn big chunck of change, but it is one time and

done. I think that nada was hoping that I wouldn't be able to financially

support myself and would be forced to move home. I'm fixing that as fast as I

can. Thanks to the government and darling husbands SS benefits, I can make it

while I get trained for a new career! I always got excited about new

opportunities, now there is a sadness, because I know I " have " to do this

because my husband is no longer here to support us. The good thing, is that we

were already discussing me going back to school and getting a new career to be a

bigger contributor to our family financially. I think that is the one thing that

is making it easier.

C

> >

> > well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She

really has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is

out for my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in

on the 19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go

back to school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident

status and end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I

can remind her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was

" terribly disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next

four years while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her

bonnet when she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE!

I finally found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got

done writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through.

I feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or

two sobbing.

> >

> > C

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I know what you mean. I had already posted about how she kept saying " they " have

had me long enough out here and that I am " needed and wanted " back there. It

just gives me the creeps. It's bad enough that she lured my brother back with

FOG. He was so pissed at her about her whole helpless routine and when he got

there, her church was helping her do everything. She had more than sufficient

support! He gave up seniority in a job and cashed out a 401K because he thought

she needed him.

The degree to which she tried to put him in the role of husband got downright

disturbing. She would rage at him when he would not help her with certain

things. This was back when she decided to buy even more dogs for " breeding "

purposes, but didn't want to deal with any of the responsibilities of letting

them outside often enough. She would go to the neighboring city to go " shopping "

and would call him after four hours insisting that he had to go over immediately

to let her dogs out and then would proceed to rage at him if he couldn't do it

because he was at work or had other plans. He even told her that he did not move

home to help her run a dog breeding business and that he was not going to help

her with that! She literally would not hear the word NO. How dare he! He helped

with the yard work and maintaining the cars and taking out her trash barrels

every week among other things. As usual, nothing is EVER enough with a BPD.

One of the things I am going to have to put the stops to is her passive

aggressive teasing about my not answering EVERY single one of her calls or not

calling her back right away. She got the message that I was not going to put up

with abusive messages from her, so now she likes to " tease " me when I finally do

call her back. It puts me on the defensive and I am getting pretty fed up and

she has only done it maybe twice now. I didn't answer her calls or return them

for a few days last weekend. I was having a hard time and she is the LAST person

I want to talk to when I am low emotionally. When I finally did call her back,

she aswered saying " oh, is this my daughter, I wasn't sure if you were really

out there anymore, I never know when I'll hear from you! " Then of course she

claims she is teasing me and that I don't know how to take a joke, (god she is

one to talk!) and I should lighten up! She did the same effing thing when I

called her on Saturday... " oh, are you calling me back already? I thought maybe

you were going to limit my calls to just ONCE A WEEK! " again it is all in jest

HAHAHAHA! Never mind the fact that she insists on calling me during the week

when I am working.

I am left feeling like I need to defend my every reason for not aswering or

returning her calls and I really could use some good advice here to regain my

perspective on this. Any thoughts?

C

> > >

> > > well twice now nada had been pestering me about moving back " home " She

really has it in her head that I will just cave and thinks that once school is

out for my son that I will just pack us up and move back there! She started in

on the 19th and again a few days ago. I explained to her that if I want to go

back to school, I need to stay where I am so I don't loose my state resident

status and end up paying much higher out of state tuition rates. ( I figure I

can remind her that I would rather live anywhere but there later ) She was

" terribly disappointed " that I will have to remain here for at least the next

four years while pursuing my education. She is really gonna have a bee in her

bonnet when she figures out that I have NO INTENTION OF EVER MOVING BACK THERE!

I finally found an online support group for widow(er)s here on yahoo. I just got

done writing a BOOK and barely skimmed the surface of what I have been through.

I feel significantly better considering I just spent most of the past hour or

two sobbing.

> > >

> > > C

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Feeling like you need to defend your every reason for not aswering or returning

her calls is simply you feeling guilty. But you have nothing to feel guilty

about; its not wrong or bad to feel hurt and to not want to have much to do

with someone when that person is chronically, deliberately mean to you, and

trying to make you feel bad.

I think you are feeling inappropriate and misplaced guilt, because you are

buying in to the idea that if you don't like talking to your mother you are

" bad. " But of course you don't want much contact with a person who is so nasty

to you, who would?

So, maybe consider the idea of being more proactive and assertive. Calm, but to

the point:

Nada, sarcastically: " Oh, are you calling me back already? I thought maybe you

were going to limit my calls to just ONCE A WEEK! "

You: " When you speak to me with sarcasm and try to make me feel guilty, it

makes me not want to talk to you *at all*, mother. Now that you mention it, I

think limiting my calls to once a week is a good idea. So, I'm hanging up now.

I'll call you again next week. "

And then *each time* she uses sarcasm as a " joke " in an attempt to make you feel

guilty, you cut the call short in a similar way, like a broken record. In a

calm and emotionless voice you respond with things like:

" Its not OK to verbally attack me, mother... "

" I won't listen to you when you speak to me like that... "

" Is there something else you wanted to speak to me about? No? Then I need to be

doing other things.... "

" Sarcasm isn't funny, mother, its mean and hostile. I don't care to listen to

you when you're being mean and hostile toward me.... "

" We can't discuss this when you are crying and upset, mother. Maybe later when

you are calmer. "

...followed by:

" ...I'm hanging up now. Talk to you later. "

So instead of going into great lengths to defend your position or explain it or

get her to understand and care that she's hurt your feelings (because she

frankly is not capable of caring about your feelings) you instead just say what

the result will be. " When (or if) you do or say " x " , then I will not continue

with our conversation. "

Simply protecting yourself is NOT mean or hostile, and you are doing nothing to

feel guilty about.

Stubborn, domineering, hostile, sarcastic nada may eventually get the point that

behaving in certain ways will get her only a very brief conversation with you.

If she wants more time with you, she will have to tuck in her razor-sharp claws

& fangs and behave nicely.

(As though she actually does care about your feelings.)

If nada says something like " Well, you're too sensitive " " You can't take a

joke " or something similar, you just say, " That's an interesting remark,

mother, because that's the classic response of bullies: to call the person they

attack " too sensitive. " Or something along those lines, followed by, " ...And I

don't care to have a conversation with you when you behave like that, so I'm

hanging up now. "

Saying that their victim is " too sensitive " IS a classic abuser's or bully's

response, but its completely illogical; of course it hurts a person's feelings

to be teased or shamed. The bully knows this, but does it anyway.

So, bottom line, if you can shed the misplaced and inappropriate guilt, you will

shed the remaining irrational compulsion to defend yourself for not wanting to

talk to her (of course you don't want to talk to her! She's mean! Duh!) and

you'll be ahead of nada's mind game. She's counting on you feeling guilty and

ashamed. Don't buy her version of reality.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

>

> I know what you mean. I had already posted about how she kept saying " they "

have had me long enough out here and that I am " needed and wanted " back there.

It just gives me the creeps. It's bad enough that she lured my brother back with

FOG. He was so pissed at her about her whole helpless routine and when he got

there, her church was helping her do everything. She had more than sufficient

support! He gave up seniority in a job and cashed out a 401K because he thought

she needed him.

>

> The degree to which she tried to put him in the role of husband got downright

disturbing. She would rage at him when he would not help her with certain

things. This was back when she decided to buy even more dogs for " breeding "

purposes, but didn't want to deal with any of the responsibilities of letting

them outside often enough. She would go to the neighboring city to go " shopping "

and would call him after four hours insisting that he had to go over immediately

to let her dogs out and then would proceed to rage at him if he couldn't do it

because he was at work or had other plans. He even told her that he did not move

home to help her run a dog breeding business and that he was not going to help

her with that! She literally would not hear the word NO. How dare he! He helped

with the yard work and maintaining the cars and taking out her trash barrels

every week among other things. As usual, nothing is EVER enough with a BPD.

>

> One of the things I am going to have to put the stops to is her passive

aggressive teasing about my not answering EVERY single one of her calls or not

calling her back right away. She got the message that I was not going to put up

with abusive messages from her, so now she likes to " tease " me when I finally do

call her back. It puts me on the defensive and I am getting pretty fed up and

she has only done it maybe twice now. I didn't answer her calls or return them

for a few days last weekend. I was having a hard time and she is the LAST person

I want to talk to when I am low emotionally. When I finally did call her back,

she aswered saying " oh, is this my daughter, I wasn't sure if you were really

out there anymore, I never know when I'll hear from you! " Then of course she

claims she is teasing me and that I don't know how to take a joke, (god she is

one to talk!) and I should lighten up! She did the same effing thing when I

called her on Saturday... " oh, are you calling me back already? I thought maybe

you were going to limit my calls to just ONCE A WEEK! " again it is all in jest

HAHAHAHA! Never mind the fact that she insists on calling me during the week

when I am working.

>

> I am left feeling like I need to defend my every reason for not aswering or

returning her calls and I really could use some good advice here to regain my

perspective on this. Any thoughts?

>

> C