I feel like the scum of the earth.

[Guest guest]

I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

don't believe her.

She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

it.

Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

" psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

shitty on so many levels.

Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

time for her.

I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

opinion/emotion out of it...

Facts:

* In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

* Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

option, the fire dept. got them involved.

* Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

his foot down.

* Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

they live in absolute disgusting filth.

* She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

beer cans in her house. Cases.

* She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

they tested her anyway. She had been.

* She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

in rehab facility.

* She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

school sweet hearts " )

And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

scum of the earth.

Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

[Guest guest]

YOU NEED TO PROTECT THE KIDS. first of all who actually raped her? if she has

been raped that many times in 3 years she is hanging out with the wrong crowd.

(that is not to say she " deserves rape " you are right that is never ok) however

if she is (big if it sounds like) around such scum and has kids they will be

sexually assaulted too. taking pics of the filth is just another step in helping

them. on the one hand she is around BAD men and that is not ok with kids

involved. on the other hand she is lying about being raped to get attention,

pitty, help ...? and that is not safe for the kids. you need to fight for them

you and your husband need to advocate for them. psyco-ex needs help too, but

pity does not excuse her neglecting or abusing anyone.

you are not the scum of the universe, you are sticking up for helpless confused

children. it is probably even the right thing for psyco-ex to loose the

children. it may help her in the end. please for all of us help them.

Meikjn

>

> I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> don't believe her.

>

> She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

>

> Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> it.

>

> Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

>

> So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> shitty on so many levels.

>

> Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> time for her.

>

> I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

>

> Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

>

> So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> opinion/emotion out of it...

>

> Facts:

>

> * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> his foot down.

> * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> beer cans in her house. Cases.

> * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> they tested her anyway. She had been.

> * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> in rehab facility.

> * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> school sweet hearts " )

>

> And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> scum of the earth.

>

> Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

>

> Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Meikjn. We are advocating for the kids. Well, trying to.

The system, well, it's really f'ed up. CPS to give warning to someone

that they're coming for a visit... twice? Really, they're not helping

this situation at all and making our battle even tougher.

We will always advocate for those kids, even for the little guy who is

not hubby's. If in the end we are awarded custody of his 2 kids, I

would fight for their brother too. Any kid in this situation, yep,

I'm going to advocate for them.

But I still feel like a POS for not believing her. Yet, it happens...

people press charges claiming violence and/or rape and then it's found

out they lied (by admission or some other evidence). Innocent people

DO go to jail. And it burns my ass because no, I don't believe her

and I am putting her in the same category as all the others who

falsely accuse people of things they did NOT do... and those people

make it harder for those who actually have gone through violence,

rape, abuse, etc.

So yeah, this kills me on so many levels. I feel like crap for not

believing her. I feel angry with her because I feel she lied about

something that is so very serious and horrible. I feel she is making

it harder for others who really have been through it (including many

of us here!!!! and myself!!! ). I feel she is f'ing with her kids'

lives. And I feel like a shitty nurse for not believing her. Yeah,

multiple levels.

I guess I'm just trying to process it all. Plus, I don't know what we

can do with these photos. We need a lawyer, but due to her & the

kids' native american status, we can't find anyone to take the case!

They tell us to find a lawyer who knows tribal law... we can't find

one here because we're states away from a reservation. Can we give

these photos to someone from CPS? Hubby & I have done so much

research to try & find a lawyer. Holly here on this group gave me

some wonderful resources and it's always the same thing... " fine a

lawyer in your state who deals with state/fed & tribal law. " We've

called & left messages with state bar association... we can't find

anyone to help us.

I feel like she's untouchable. And now, I feel it's pretty much a

guarantee she's going to play the victim role. Which could make it

even HARDER for us if we DO manage to find someone to take our case to

convince a judge to get the kids the hell out of there. Granted,

there is only one documented case of any assault and rape on police

record, and that would be today's because she's always refused to

contact police or go to hospital in past.

And Meikjn, I am sorry if I'm coming off like I'm angry with you,

please let me make it very clear that I AM NOT in any way shape or

form angry with you. I guess your post opened up a can of worms

desperate to get out of the can. I am, however, angry at the

situation with psycho ex, angry that the kids have to deal with this

bull shit. And that runs deep too as a survivor of abuse myself.

I will ALWAYS advocate for the abused. Be they children, adults, or

elders. Any human who has been abused and/or neglected. And I'm so

glad that my profession allows me to do that too.

Speaking of which, I am a " mandated reporter " now because I am a

licensed nurse (even though I'm still jumping through government hoops

to start my job at the VA & not working). So how does that work? I'm

mandated to report abuse/neglect... does that still hold true for my

step kids? I have reported it before to CPS, I will do so again. I

have a feeling I'm going to have to squeak a long time before someone

greases me, but I'm going to keep on squeaking.

But hubby & I are just stuck right now. Not sure where to turn.

Help?

Mia

>

>

>

> YOU NEED TO PROTECT THE KIDS. first of all who actually raped her? if she has

been raped that many times in 3 years she is hanging out with the wrong crowd.

(that is not to say she " deserves rape " you are right that is never ok) however

if she is (big if it sounds like) around such scum and has kids they will be

sexually assaulted too. taking pics of the filth is just another step in helping

them. on the one hand she is around BAD men and that is not ok with kids

involved. on the other hand she is lying about being raped to get attention,

pitty, help ...? and that is not safe for the kids. you need to fight for them

you and your husband need to advocate for them. psyco-ex needs help too, but

pity does not excuse her neglecting or abusing anyone.

>

> you are not the scum of the universe, you are sticking up for helpless

confused children. it is probably even the right thing for psyco-ex to loose the

children. it may help her in the end. please for all of us help them.

>

> Meikjn

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> > going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> > asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> > this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> > in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> > don't believe her.

> >

> > She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

> >

> > Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> > it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> > it.

> >

> > Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> > going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> > their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> > kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> > father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> > paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> > didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> > but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> > knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> > her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> > any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> > about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> > fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> > or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> > any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

> >

> > So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> > angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> > not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> > want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> > screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> > an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> > good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> > I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> > " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> > shitty on so many levels.

> >

> > Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> > squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> > their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> > Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> > found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> > time for her.

> >

> > I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

> >

> > Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> > borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> > horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> > proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

> >

> > So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> > what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> > opinion/emotion out of it...

> >

> > Facts:

> >

> > * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> > claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> > * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> > husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> > police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> > option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> > * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> > went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> > his foot down.

> > * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> > they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> > * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> > hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> > not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> > beer cans in her house. Cases.

> > * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> > they tested her anyway. She had been.

> > * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> > in rehab facility.

> > * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> > that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> > types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> > school sweet hearts " )

> >

> > And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> > scum of the earth.

> >

> > Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

> >

> > Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

nope you did not come off angry at me. your post makes perfect sense. it is SO

complicated. you are mad in general. I have a friend who is trying to get help

for her kids. she has most custody, but her ex is taking full advantage of his

little bit and really hurting the kids. lawyers are expensive, and in your case

unhelpful. I wish I were a lawyer. I think you might become an advocate for

change in the tribal laws. native Americans don't want to be supporting child

abuse. point out the flaw in the system.

and yes this touched a nerve. but that was because I hate that this crap exists

at all. People who cry wolf hurt us all. my wrath is not for you at all it is

for all of us who have suffered at the hands of crap for parents. and all those

kids who the law forces to suffer. and all the people I am close to who love

trapped kids.

I remember you saying something about this same situation in the past about the

kids missing too much school. perhaps if you were able to get the school to

start reporting everything, more may happen. perhaps the teachers noticed signs

of abuse/neglect? you are not working against anyone you are working for the

kids.

be annoying even if the kids can't get out quickly they will find solace in the

fact that someone cared. I have had a few small scale advocates, and I will

always be grateful.

best to you in a horrible situation.

Meikjn

> > >

> > > I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> > > going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> > > asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> > > this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> > > in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> > > don't believe her.

> > >

> > > She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

> > >

> > > Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> > > it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> > > it.

> > >

> > > Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> > > going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> > > their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> > > kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> > > father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> > > paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> > > didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> > > but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> > > knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> > > her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> > > any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> > > about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> > > fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> > > or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> > > any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

> > >

> > > So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> > > angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> > > not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> > > want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> > > screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> > > an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> > > good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> > > I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> > > " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> > > shitty on so many levels.

> > >

> > > Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> > > squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> > > their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> > > Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> > > found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> > > time for her.

> > >

> > > I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

> > >

> > > Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> > > borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> > > horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> > > proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

> > >

> > > So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> > > what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> > > opinion/emotion out of it...

> > >

> > > Facts:

> > >

> > > * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> > > claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> > > * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> > > husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> > > police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> > > option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> > > * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> > > went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> > > his foot down.

> > > * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> > > they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> > > * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> > > hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> > > not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> > > beer cans in her house. Cases.

> > > * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> > > they tested her anyway. She had been.

> > > * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> > > in rehab facility.

> > > * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> > > that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> > > types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> > > school sweet hearts " )

> > >

> > > And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> > > scum of the earth.

> > >

> > > Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

> > >

> > > Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mia,

It is ok to be skeptical. It simply means that that you are judiciously

withholding any opinion, until you have All the facts. However, you

*are*doing everything possible to protect the children, which is

laudable. Many

BPDs seem addicted to recreating some kind of specific drama in their

lives. It almost becomes a release valve for them. This may be true for

your husbands ex. What are the odds, of anyone, living even a relatively

normal life, to have been sexually assaulted 5 or 6 times in such a short

no. of years?

The Native American status opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, too.

My sister-in-law, (a librarian) suggested you might have some success, if

you researched Attys. by looking for googling " custody cases tribal law

your state " , and see what comes up, you should get articles citing custody

cases involving tribal law, along with attys. names, in your state. I hope

this may help.

Whether your Husbands was actually raped or not, is no longer really the

issue. If she has been assaulted that many times within that span of time,

something is wrong. If she hasn't been assaulted, but is making such

serious accusations, then something is wrong.

An interesting note, mentioned by SIL, there was a recent documentary film,

about sexual assault on the reservations, but she can't remember the name.

You might google it. If such conditions are factual, and she is

experiencing such horrific conditions, than that, too, is reason to

extricate the kids from her custody. What mother in their right mind would

want their children growing up in such conditions? On the other hand, if

she has jumped on the " I was assaulted' bandwagon, as a means of attention

getting a, or achieving emotional release, or supply, the kids still need

to be removed.

About a million years ago, I worked on one of the Indian Nations.

Between the bureaucracy, hypocrisy, timing related issues, and an outright

willingness to cut off ones nose to spite ones face oppositional behaviors

on both sides, I thought I would loose my mind. Then there were those

charming do gooders, who, enchanted with the myth and beauty of the Native

American experience damn near sank us all. And ooooh lord, the issues

regarding time! I'd get a time scheduled to attend to major community

issues, the great white powers from the govt. would show up, but the nation

representatives would either not show up at all, or would show up so late,

that every one was too peeved, or had to leave for the next meeting.

I know this is going to be really tough, and I wish you, and your

family the very best

What churches are presently involved with this specific tribe? Depending

on the part of the country, of course the Catholics, but also the Mennonite

Church is active in some regions. Sometimes they can be a resource for good

information, also, her mother is not supporting her story, would she

possibly help you get temporary custody, in the interests of the childrens'

safety?

Please forgive me, if these are suggestions you have already explored,

very little is as irritating as having someone point out to you, what was

obvious to you in the first place.

I Wish You Luck, and Peace, and Every Success!

Sunspot

> Thanks Meikjn. We are advocating for the kids. Well, trying to.

> The system, well, it's really f'ed up. CPS to give warning to someone

> that they're coming for a visit... twice? Really, they're not helping

> this situation at all and making our battle even tougher.

>

> We will always advocate for those kids, even for the little guy who is

> not hubby's. If in the end we are awarded custody of his 2 kids, I

> would fight for their brother too. Any kid in this situation, yep,

> I'm going to advocate for them.

>

> But I still feel like a POS for not believing her. Yet, it happens...

> people press charges claiming violence and/or rape and then it's found

> out they lied (by admission or some other evidence). Innocent people

> DO go to jail. And it burns my ass because no, I don't believe her

> and I am putting her in the same category as all the others who

> falsely accuse people of things they did NOT do... and those people

> make it harder for those who actually have gone through violence,

> rape, abuse, etc.

>

> So yeah, this kills me on so many levels. I feel like crap for not

> believing her. I feel angry with her because I feel she lied about

> something that is so very serious and horrible. I feel she is making

> it harder for others who really have been through it (including many

> of us here!!!! and myself!!! ). I feel she is f'ing with her kids'

> lives. And I feel like a shitty nurse for not believing her. Yeah,

> multiple levels.

>

> I guess I'm just trying to process it all. Plus, I don't know what we

> can do with these photos. We need a lawyer, but due to her & the

> kids' native american status, we can't find anyone to take the case!

> They tell us to find a lawyer who knows tribal law... we can't find

> one here because we're states away from a reservation. Can we give

> these photos to someone from CPS? Hubby & I have done so much

> research to try & find a lawyer. Holly here on this group gave me

> some wonderful resources and it's always the same thing... " fine a

> lawyer in your state who deals with state/fed & tribal law. " We've

> called & left messages with state bar association... we can't find

> anyone to help us.

>

> I feel like she's untouchable. And now, I feel it's pretty much a

> guarantee she's going to play the victim role. Which could make it

> even HARDER for us if we DO manage to find someone to take our case to

> convince a judge to get the kids the hell out of there. Granted,

> there is only one documented case of any assault and rape on police

> record, and that would be today's because she's always refused to

> contact police or go to hospital in past.

>

> And Meikjn, I am sorry if I'm coming off like I'm angry with you,

> please let me make it very clear that I AM NOT in any way shape or

> form angry with you. I guess your post opened up a can of worms

> desperate to get out of the can. I am, however, angry at the

> situation with psycho ex, angry that the kids have to deal with this

> bull shit. And that runs deep too as a survivor of abuse myself.

>

> I will ALWAYS advocate for the abused. Be they children, adults, or

> elders. Any human who has been abused and/or neglected. And I'm so

> glad that my profession allows me to do that too.

>

> Speaking of which, I am a " mandated reporter " now because I am a

> licensed nurse (even though I'm still jumping through government hoops

> to start my job at the VA & not working). So how does that work? I'm

> mandated to report abuse/neglect... does that still hold true for my

> step kids? I have reported it before to CPS, I will do so again. I

> have a feeling I'm going to have to squeak a long time before someone

> greases me, but I'm going to keep on squeaking.

>

> But hubby & I are just stuck right now. Not sure where to turn.

>

> Help?

>

> Mia

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > YOU NEED TO PROTECT THE KIDS. first of all who actually raped her? if

> she has been raped that many times in 3 years she is hanging out with the

> wrong crowd. (that is not to say she " deserves rape " you are right that is

> never ok) however if she is (big if it sounds like) around such scum and

> has kids they will be sexually assaulted too. taking pics of the filth is

> just another step in helping them. on the one hand she is around BAD men

> and that is not ok with kids involved. on the other hand she is lying about

> being raped to get attention, pitty, help ...? and that is not safe for the

> kids. you need to fight for them you and your husband need to advocate for

> them. psyco-ex needs help too, but pity does not excuse her neglecting or

> abusing anyone.

> >

> > you are not the scum of the universe, you are sticking up for helpless

> confused children. it is probably even the right thing for psyco-ex to

> loose the children. it may help her in the end. please for all of us help

> them.

> >

> > Meikjn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> > > going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> > > asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> > > this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> > > in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> > > don't believe her.

> > >

> > > She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

> > >

> > > Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> > > it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> > > it.

> > >

> > > Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> > > going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> > > their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> > > kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> > > father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> > > paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> > > didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> > > but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> > > knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> > > her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> > > any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> > > about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> > > fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> > > or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> > > any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

> > >

> > > So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> > > angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> > > not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> > > want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> > > screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> > > an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> > > good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> > > I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> > > " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> > > shitty on so many levels.

> > >

> > > Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> > > squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> > > their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> > > Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> > > found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> > > time for her.

> > >

> > > I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

> > >

> > > Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> > > borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> > > horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> > > proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

> > >

> > > So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> > > what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> > > opinion/emotion out of it...

> > >

> > > Facts:

> > >

> > > * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> > > claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> > > * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> > > husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> > > police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> > > option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> > > * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> > > went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> > > his foot down.

> > > * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> > > they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> > > * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> > > hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> > > not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> > > beer cans in her house. Cases.

> > > * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> > > they tested her anyway. She had been.

> > > * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> > > in rehab facility.

> > > * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> > > that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> > > types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> > > school sweet hearts " )

> > >

> > > And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> > > scum of the earth.

> > >

> > > Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

> > >

> > > Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The

> Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and

> Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.**

> Problems? Write @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

> To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

>

> Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and

> " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)

[Guest guest]

Please don't feel like you are a bad person at all for doubting her. In fact,

the fact that you worry about doubting her shows you are not " scum " .

Here's the thing: she's cried wolf a lot, so she should know better that if

she's made false allegations and lied in the past, that believing her and

trusting her to tell the truth becomes near impossible. So it's not your fault

if she's lied about this in the past and now you don't trust her. In fact,

that's what you should do, not trust her. If she came to you with a shred of

believable evidence, would you believe her or at least give her the benefit of

the doubt for the investigation? I think you would. But it sounds to me like

she's playing a game she's played before, and you are simply recognizing it.

This is no different from a suicide ideation, and you did the right thing in

making sure that she reported it to the police.

Although I really hate it if she is reporting a false rape allegation, because

it does make it more difficult for those who have been raped. You should check

out the things going on at the U of Montana, Missoula right now, and people

claiming allegations are false, etc., letting football players off because 50%

of rape allegations are false (bullshit, I know, but that's what one of our

authorities was quoted as saying).

About taking the pictures, you are in this to fight for the children, so don't

feel bad about documenting what you've seen. It's no different than witnessing a

police officer beating someone and pulling out your camera to document it. Why

do you feel bad about this? That's a good question. Because it's sneaky? How is

it sneaky? You've reported her to CPS before, she should be on the alert that

she's on probation and that if she slips up, she could be caught. So you caught

her. Don't feel bad about it. It's not like you are framing her, just

documenting her behavior to protect yourself and the kids.

You need a big dose of validation right now. You have not done anything wrong or

anything to feel even remotely guilty or ashamed of. Don't be sorry for it. You

have been justified in all your actions. It's almost like you are giving into

her FOG--fear, obligation, guilt....at least the guilt part, and the fear part

that it makes you a bad person. Remove yourself as a character in the situation

and imagine if you were a complete stranger. Do you think that stranger should

feel guilty for doubting her or for reporting her and documenting what they've

seen? I don't think so.

You are not scum. Stand by your actions and the rightfullness of them.

>

> I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> don't believe her.

>

> She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

>

> Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> it.

>

> Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

>

> So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> shitty on so many levels.

>

> Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> time for her.

>

> I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

>

> Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

>

> So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> opinion/emotion out of it...

>

> Facts:

>

> * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> his foot down.

> * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> beer cans in her house. Cases.

> * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> they tested her anyway. She had been.

> * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> in rehab facility.

> * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> school sweet hearts " )

>

> And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> scum of the earth.

>

> Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

>

> Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

>

[Guest guest]

Mia,

I see no reason for you to feel like the scum of the earth. Let

me summarize the way I see the situation here.

Someone with a history of telling lies is making a claim that

appears to be contrary to the facts. You don't believe her.

What part of that description makes you the bad guy? Nothing.

Whether or not she's telling the truth, there are some serious

problems. I see all sorts of red flags here that are good reason

to doubt her story. She called you to come get the kids. Where

were the kids when she was supposedly being raped? Did the

supposed rape happen with them in the house? Or did she go out

and leave the kids home? If the kids were at home, was anyone

with them?

Why would she go to the firehouse to report a rape if she didn't

want to be taken to the ER?

If she's really been raped 5-6 times in three years, then she's

almost certainly engaging in some seriously risky behavior that

is putting her at risk. Someone might have the bad luck to get

raped more than once over a period of years without doing

anything particularly risky, but 5-6 times in three years sounds

incredibly unlikely without risky behavior being involved. If

she's indulging in seriously risky behavior, she could be

endangering the children as well.

If she's really been raped all those times, why does she want

your husband involved and why doesn't she want the police and

hospital involved?

I'm not sure, but with an allegation of rape, I would expect the

ER to be looking for bodily fluids, evidence of recent sexual

activity, and evidence of force being used on her. If she was

knocked out with a roofie and thus wasn't able to fight back

there might not have been any force involved to leave bruising

or tearing, but I would think they could find evidence of sexual

intercourse having happened. Her lack of desire to go to the ER

suggests to me that she knows they won't find anything and knows

she doesn't need medical treatment of any sort. (Even if she's

not bleeding or suffering from other physical trauma, sexually

transmitted diseases are a possibility that should be checked

for in rape cases.)

Whatever did or didn't happen to her this time, it wasn't your

fault and you have good reason to question the truth of her

claims. She's also failing to take care of her kids. Kids come

first when there's a question of doing what is right for the

kids or doing what an adult wants you to do.

At 10:29 AM 01/31/2012 Mia wrote:

>I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were

>raped. I'm NEVER

>going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she

>was

>asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my

>ass. But,

>this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack

>and/or rape

>in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because

>I

>don't believe her.

>

>She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

>

>Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her

>about

>it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick

>over

>it.

>

>Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying

>BPD-ex is

>going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to

>stay at

>their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset

>them. Plus, we

>kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because

>the

>father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station,

>the

>paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said

>she

>didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps

>changing,

>but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which

>just about

>knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex

>and

>her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they

>couldn't find

>any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know

>enough

>about what they are looking for to know if that just means no

>bodily

>fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her

>Rohypnol

>or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no

>evidence of

>any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

>

>So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me

>very

>angry with myself because I have had experiences with people

>who did

>not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I

>do not

>want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is

>trying to

>screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even

>more like

>an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now,

>wouldn't a

>good person be more concerned about the person claiming

>abuse? Plus,

>I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me

>feel

>shitty on so many levels.

>

>Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all

>her

>squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her

>notice of

>their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for

>them.

>Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass

>because I

>found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a

>horrible

>time for her.

>

>I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

>

>Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm

>the

>borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful

>thing is

>horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity

>to get

>proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge

>asshole.

>

>So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and

>to do

>what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to

>keep

>opinion/emotion out of it...

>

>Facts:

>

>* In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her),

>she's

>claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

>* Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling

>my

>husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She

>doesn't want

>police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't

>have an

>option, the fire dept. got them involved.

>* Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting

>me. He

>went once around the time their divorce was final then started

>to put

>his foot down.

>* Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her

>kids and

>they live in absolute disgusting filth.

>* She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that

>she

>hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her

>mother does

>not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of

>empty

>beer cans in her house. Cases.

>* She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking,

>then

>they tested her anyway. She had been.

>* She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including

>time spent

>in rehab facility.

>* She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He

>said

>that every time they were off-again, she would start making

>these

>types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were

> " high

>school sweet hearts " )

>

>And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel

>like the

>scum of the earth.

>

>Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

>

>Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Mia, perhaps it would help if you substituted the words " I was robbed at

gunpoint " for " rape. "

So say she called and said that for the fifth or sixth time in a few years she's

been robbed at gunpoint. Wow! Would you believe her? Or would you say, gee, that

sounds pretty fishy to me?

What are the chances of someone being robbed at gunpoint six times in a few

years - unless they are going into some bad neighborhoods and putting themselves

at terrible risk.

Seems that what is really bothering you may be the rape issue - we as women

never, ever want to disbelieve a woman has been raped when she says she does,

and rightly so.

But in this case? Eh. Not so much.

[Guest guest]

If there were actual evidence that the woman had been raped, then I'm sure you

would believe her.

Its the fact that she was lying about two different things that is the big

factor here. There was no chemical evidence that she was slipped a date-rape

drug and there was not a molecule of physical evidence that she had had sexual

intercourse; I think any normal person would be skeptical about what she was

claiming.

Plus, chronic alcoholics and those with bpd/npd/aspd tend to lie a lot.

I don't think there is anything for you to feel scummy about, dear.

-Annie

>

>

> Mia, perhaps it would help if you substituted the words " I was robbed at

gunpoint " for " rape. "

>

> So say she called and said that for the fifth or sixth time in a few years

she's been robbed at gunpoint. Wow! Would you believe her? Or would you say,

gee, that sounds pretty fishy to me?

>

> What are the chances of someone being robbed at gunpoint six times in a few

years - unless they are going into some bad neighborhoods and putting themselves

at terrible risk.

>

> Seems that what is really bothering you may be the rape issue - we as women

never, ever want to disbelieve a woman has been raped when she says she does,

and rightly so.

>

> But in this case? Eh. Not so much.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When an ER does a rape kit the first thing they look for is fluid, but they also

do a physical exam and look for any lesions or tears both in and outside of the

vagina, which would most likely occur during a rape. This is what the rape

counselor at the hospital told me when my BPD mother did the same thing. Her

rape kit came back negative. Her blood test showed no drugs, but her BAC was

pretty high. No one will really ever know if she was drugged and raped or if

someone did make the attempt, but my common sense tells me she wasn't.

Especially since she had quite a history of blacking out in bar bathrooms and

other places.

Your instincts are probably right, but you will never be able to prove it. I

would focus on what you can prove and make it a priority to protect the kids.

Seems to me that even without CPS, you would have enough to at least get

temporary custody of the kids just based off of the other things you have said.

I would get in touch with a lawyer and do whatever legally possible to keep

those kids safe.

Good luck!

>

> I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> don't believe her.

>

> She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

>

> Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> it.

>

> Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

>

> So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> shitty on so many levels.

>

> Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> time for her.

>

> I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

>

> Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

>

> So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> opinion/emotion out of it...

>

> Facts:

>

> * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> his foot down.

> * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> beer cans in her house. Cases.

> * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> they tested her anyway. She had been.

> * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> in rehab facility.

> * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> school sweet hearts " )

>

> And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> scum of the earth.

>

> Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

>

> Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie & . And good point . Replacing the word " rape "

with " robbed at gunpoint " .... 5 or 6 times in 3 years. Hell rape/assault

that much sounds obsurd, but I guess it just hits me harder because people

who have been raped shouldn't have to worry about the assholes in the world

lying about being raped for attention or whatever.

Anyway, just got off phone with CPS, going to write about that in a new

email. =\

Mia

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 2:48 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> If there were actual evidence that the woman had been raped, then I'm sure

> you would believe her.

>

> Its the fact that she was lying about two different things that is the big

> factor here. There was no chemical evidence that she was slipped a

> date-rape drug and there was not a molecule of physical evidence that she

> had had sexual intercourse; I think any normal person would be skeptical

> about what she was claiming.

>

> Plus, chronic alcoholics and those with bpd/npd/aspd tend to lie a lot.

>

> I don't think there is anything for you to feel scummy about, dear.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Mia, perhaps it would help if you substituted the words " I was robbed at

> gunpoint " for " rape. "

> >

> > So say she called and said that for the fifth or sixth time in a few

> years she's been robbed at gunpoint. Wow! Would you believe her? Or would

> you say, gee, that sounds pretty fishy to me?

> >

> > What are the chances of someone being robbed at gunpoint six times in a

> few years - unless they are going into some bad neighborhoods and putting

> themselves at terrible risk.

> >

> > Seems that what is really bothering you may be the rape issue - we as

> women never, ever want to disbelieve a woman has been raped when she says

> she does, and rightly so.

> >

> > But in this case? Eh. Not so much.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Panda. I'm sorry you had to grow up with a mother like that. And I

know I will never know the truth, but I think my gut knows.

The lawyer issue is difficult due to american indian heratige that their

mom & the kids are on tribal roll. we can't find a lawyer to touch the

case. We've tried. Repeatedly. They tell us to find someone in our state

who knows tribal law as well because unfortunately the case will end up in

tribal court, even if CPS intervenes & takes the kids out of the home.

We're still trying. The last lawyer we talked to told us to just keep

documenting and keep calling CPS. That's what we intend to do until we can

find someone.

at the moment she's the untouchable child neglecter. > We intend to

take away that untouchable status because the kids don't deserve this.

The kids may hate us for it now, but hopefully they will understand some

day.

Mia

>

>

> When an ER does a rape kit the first thing they look for is fluid, but

> they also do a physical exam and look for any lesions or tears both in and

> outside of the vagina, which would most likely occur during a rape. This is

> what the rape counselor at the hospital told me when my BPD mother did the

> same thing. Her rape kit came back negative. Her blood test showed no

> drugs, but her BAC was pretty high. No one will really ever know if she was

> drugged and raped or if someone did make the attempt, but my common sense

> tells me she wasn't. Especially since she had quite a history of blacking

> out in bar bathrooms and other places.

>

> Your instincts are probably right, but you will never be able to prove it.

> I would focus on what you can prove and make it a priority to protect the

> kids. Seems to me that even without CPS, you would have enough to at least

> get temporary custody of the kids just based off of the other things you

> have said. I would get in touch with a lawyer and do whatever legally

> possible to keep those kids safe.

>

> Good luck!

>

>

>

> >

> > I feel like a schmuck because someone says they were raped. I'm NEVER

> > going to condone rape, EVER!!!! There is NO SUCH THING as " she was

> > asking for it " , etc... those types of statements burn my ass. But,

> > this is probably the 5th or 6th time she's claimed attack and/or rape

> > in the nearly 3 years I've known her. I feel like this because I

> > don't believe her.

> >

> > She also happens to be hubby's likely BPD ex wife.

> >

> > Yes, I feel like a total asshole. I would never be rude to her about

> > it or tell her I didn't believe her, but I seriously feel sick over

> > it.

> >

> > Long story short. 5 am phone call from her mother saying BPD-ex is

> > going to ER, she needs us to come get kids. We go, decide to stay at

> > their house with the kids & not wake them up & upset them. Plus, we

> > kinda had to watch her 3 month old (not hubby's baby) because the

> > father is not in the picture. She ended up at a fire station, the

> > paramedics told her, " We're taking you to the ER " . She said she

> > didn't want to go. Again, they insisted. Her story keeps changing,

> > but always ends in rape. Her mom doesn't believe her which just about

> > knocked hubby & I both over in shock & disbelief because BPD-ex and

> > her mother are so so so so so codependent. I guess they couldn't find

> > any evidence of anything during the rape kit, I don't know enough

> > about what they are looking for to know if that just means no bodily

> > fluids, etc? No clue. She also claimed someone slipped her Rohypnol

> > or " roofies " ... said she was not drinking. They found no evidence of

> > any drugs in her system, but her blood alcohol level was high.

> >

> > So yeah, I'm having a hard time believing her. And it makes me very

> > angry with myself because I have had experiences with people who did

> > not believe me in regards to my abusive childhood. And no, I do not

> > want to see her hurt, but she's hurting the kids and she is trying to

> > screw with our lives. I feel like an ass. And I feel even more like

> > an ass for being concerned about how *I* feel right now, wouldn't a

> > good person be more concerned about the person claiming abuse? Plus,

> > I'm a nurse! Granted, she's not my patient, she's my husband's

> > " psycho ex wife " (as we call her). Ugh, this just makes me feel

> > shitty on so many levels.

> >

> > Since we were alone in the house with the sleeping kids & all her

> > squalor, we did take lots of pictures. CPS keeps giving her notice of

> > their visits so she gets the house in good enough condition for them.

> > Now we have proof. Which makes me feel even more like an ass because I

> > found an opportunity for our cause with the kids during a horrible

> > time for her.

> >

> > I feel like I should have empathy for her. I don't.

> >

> > Ugh, I seriously have to ask myself if I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the

> > borderline? Not believing someone's story of such an awful thing is

> > horrible, then realizing the situation offered an opportunity to get

> > proof of the squalorous house.... yep, pretty sure I'm a huge asshole.

> >

> > So I am using the group to try & make sense of all of this and to do

> > what my therapist would tell me... look at the facts and try to keep

> > opinion/emotion out of it...

> >

> > Facts:

> >

> > * In the 3ish years I've known hubby (and therefore her), she's

> > claimed assault/attack and/or rape 5 - 6 times.

> > * Every time she's made these claims, she insists on calling my

> > husband trying to get him to come out to rescue her. She doesn't want

> > police/hospital involved. This time it sounds like she didn't have an

> > option, the fire dept. got them involved.

> > * Hubby has not gone to " resuce " her since before meeting me. He

> > went once around the time their divorce was final then started to put

> > his foot down.

> > * Regardless of what happened to her, she still neglects her kids and

> > they live in absolute disgusting filth.

> > * She's lying about drinking. She flat out told hubby that she

> > hasn't drank since she had the baby 3ish months ago. Her mother does

> > not drink due to health issues & medications. We found cases of empty

> > beer cans in her house. Cases.

> > * She told the hospital and police she hadn't been drinking, then

> > they tested her anyway. She had been.

> > * She has a long history of alcohol dependency. Including time spent

> > in rehab facility.

> > * She & hubby were on-again/off-again for years & years. He said

> > that every time they were off-again, she would start making these

> > types of claims. Even as far back as high school. (They were " high

> > school sweet hearts " )

> >

> > And one last fact... even with the above facts, I still feel like the

> > scum of the earth.

> >

> > Thoughts & advice are greatly welcomed.

> >

> > Mia - who is also going to call her T soon.

> >

>

>

>