Really really need help; need help/brainstorming please.

February 2, 2012

I need some help & suggestions, please.

As I've stated, we recently had to call CPS again. Hubby's ex wife is

extremely upset and knows it was up due to them mentioning the photos.

She states that the case worker has once again said that the case is

unsubstantiated and is " a joke " and that if we continue to call CPS

that hubby's ex (Let's call her " jane " ) can press charges for

harassment and that CPS can press charges against us.

I called them back. Asked if this was true. Our state is a " mandated

state " which means ANYONE who suspects child abuse and/or neglect is

required to call, not just teachers, medical professionals, etc. CPS

said that hubby can call our county office and do a verification

process on the phone (to ensure it is him and not someone else) to

speak to the case worker. ly, if we can have charges brought

against us, I think they ought to be telling us themselves. I'm sure

not going to believe her.

Now, she wants to meet with us in a public place before we get the

kids this weekend. (I must say this shocks me because I have

suggested Mike ask her to do this very thing on MANY ocassions!!!) We

picked a family style restaurant in town. We are meeting her this

Saturday at noon.

Hubby & I have sat down & made notes on the issues we wish to speak

about. While we were writing them down, he was texting her to tell

her when and where (she said " name your time & place " .... so we did.)

She seems to think we're going to attack her or something (!!!???!!!)

She told him, multiple times I might add, via text, that " this is

going to stay on topic in regards to the CPS phone calls and nothing

else " . Uh... DUH!!!! Yes, yes it is!!!! We have very legitimate

concerns here which is WHY we called CPS in the first place. I don't

know WHAT she is thinking.... I suspect she thinks we're doing this as

some sort of sick vengeance thing, and it IS NOT at all about that. I

feel the need to type the following in all caps... IT HAS EVERYTHING

TO DO WITH THE CHILDREN. EVERYTHING. This is not a vendetta. This

is not personal. This is about the safety, health & welfare of THE

KIDS.

Ok, now... here's where I really would like your help.

I don't care how hokey it sounds, but I am writing out a list for

" rules of engagement " , so to speak. This will not be a f***ing fight

if I can help it, but we are dealing with someone who is very likely

BPD. So, I am fully prepared for the finger pointing, manipulation,

excuses, and potential for her to just get in there, say what she

wants to say & get up and leave. Hey, that'd be the true BPD way, so

I'm not putting it past her.

But she says she wants to talk about this, wants a discussion. She's

accusing us all ready of getting off topic, etc. But, helloooooooo?

Our issues are legitimate and if she wants to discuss the CPS phone

call, they are absolutely ON TOPIC.

So, I need help for our " rules " . Ideas taken from a website about

high-conflict divorce at

http://www.mrcustodycoach.com/blog/top-10-rules-of-low-contact

Here's what I have so far....

0.) The following rules will pertain to this conversation and every

conversation about the children from this point forward (I need to

phrase this better).

1.) Everyone will speak respectfully to one another. No screaming,

yelling, insults or over-use of swearing. Please, let's be civilized

with each other.

2.) No texting or other cell phone use during face to face

discussions. Everyone should be considerate and give each other their

full attention. The kids are important; this discussion is therefore

important.

3.) No talking over one another. Please keep each point you wish to

discuss down to 3 - 5 minutes and then allow the other person to

respond. They will then have 3 - 5 minutes as well before going back

to the other party.

4.) Keep the conversation focused on the children. No personal

information is allowed to be discussed unless it directly affects the

kids. Examples of non-child focused discussion include but are not

limited to the following: Financial concerns (examples I'm thinking

of is her & her mother's whining all the time about money problems,

about theft of things, boyfriends, friends (of hubby's ex), etc.);

Conversations will only be about the children - it is NOT about the

adults, it has EVERYTHING to do with <kids names here>. Examples of

acceptable discussions include, but are not limited to the following:

School events like extra-curricular activites (day, time, place),

school absences and reasons for absences, all and any illnesses

including any medications the children are taking, dates and times of

doctors appointments, and other important and pertinent information

regarding the children.

5.) Acceptable forms of communication - From this point forward, all

conversations between Hubby & ex wife (will put their names) will be

in writing unless a face to face discussion is absolutely necessary.

The parents may communicate with one another using email and a

calendar (for children's events) at http://www.gmail.com and with

google calendar. Hubby's contact email is <insert here .... we're

making a new one>. If a face to face discussion is absolutely

necessary, then arrangements will be made via gmail. Gmail is a free

account, and in order for both parents to share the calendar tool,

both parents will need a Gmail email account.

5a.) Rules specific to written contact - All above rules apply, but

specific rules include the following:

1. Only father and mother will communicate with one another

via written contact. Any content sent through Gmail or text messages

will be assumed to be from the parents. No one else will use

fathers/mothers Gmail account.

2. Text messages should only be sent in case of immediate

issue. Example: Car breaking down and children arriving at meeting

point late, etc.

3. When one parent has answered a question in a manner that

seems unsatisfactory to the other parent, only the parents will

communicate with each other. It is not acceptable for other

relatives, step parents, friends, etc. to contact the parent to try &

pressure them into changing their mind.

a. The only time it is appropriate for direct

contact from anyone who is not the parent of the children to contact

the other parent are in times of emergency (example: They are taking

the child to school & the vehicle breaks down.) All contact in this

case will also be in writing in the form of text messaging.

4. The only time that phone calls are appropriate are in

cases of true emergency. (Example: Child is hurt or injured &

requires immediate treatment.)

5. Neither parent will be in person at the other parent's

place of residence or place of employment.

6.) Drop off & pick up times and place

a. Father will pick children up every Saturday at 12:00 pm

(noon). Mother will meet him at <public half-way meeting point we

decided on> and will be no more than 15 minutes late. Any time beyond

15 minutes will be considered a failure to drop off or pick up the

children.

b. Mother will pick children up every Sunday at 7:00 pm.

Father will meet her at <same public place>. Any time beyond 15

minutes will be considered a failure to drop off or pick up the

children.

c. If parent is more than 15 minutes late and has not sent a

text message stating emergent reason for delay, the parent who has the

children will return to their home with the children and document the

failure to drop off or pick up.

d. Unless otherwise stated at least one week in advance, the

drop of place will be <public place, address included>.

7.) Time frames for notification

a. When notice is received of any events pertaining to the

children (see section above), the parent who receives the notice about

the event will let the other parent know via Gmail the day the notice

is received. Minimum requirement for notification of the other parent

for school events, doctor apts, etc is one week with special

exceptions made for last minute emergencies (Example: A parent being

required to work on a day they would normally have the children)

Anyway.... I am getting more & more ideas as I type this here, so I

think it's time to just take it into MS Word & start working on it,

but you obviously get the idea of what we're going for her... a

contract that outlines what is acceptable and what is not.

We have agreed that we will try to get her on board with this tomorrow

BEFORE the meeting on Saturday. Other things I plan to include is

that IT IS OK FOR EITHER PARENT TO CALL CPS IF THEY GENUINELY SUSPECT

ABUSE AND/OR NEGLECT. She doesn't like it, TOO BAD. Please, hubby's

ex... if you think we are hurting the kids, feel free to call. We

have nothing to hide.

Anyway, I have been talking to hubby about doing something like this

for a long time. Now, he's finally on board.

Thanks all. Sorry I've written a novel here. But yes, please... I

need help with this, particularly with wording. So anyone who's up to

the task of proof reading, let me know or feel free to communicate

with me directly at this email (zobimia@...). If you mail off

list, though, please be sure to let me know you're from the list in

the subject line otherwise it will be overlooked. (I don't open

emails from strangers LOL)

Thanks again, Mia AND Mia's hubby who is also grateful for input from

adult survivors. We want to make sure the kids survive AND thrive.

February 3, 2012

I can help proofread (and I can probably get DH to help too, if that's

okay)

I have to get ready for work, but I skimmed it, and I think what you have

so far is fantastic. I think the idea of sharing Google Calendar to keep

the kids events straight, to try to make sure they're not late for school,

and things like that, is a great idea. And indeed, she can try to call CPS

on you, but I presume you're not the sort to clean things up at the last

minute like she is, so you indeed have no reason to worry. The ground rules

for no name calling/stay on subject/etc is good. Perhaps put the phones on

silent so nobody has to take a call.

The time frame for dropping off and picking up kids is also great. Good

that it's in a public place. Keep it away from the homes and workplaces,

unless of course it's an emergency. But on the other hand, knowing her

tendency to cry wolf, it's almost better to NOT consider emergency

situations. Hmm. What kind of emergency would require picking up from home?

If the car is broken, they could walk to a street corner or something for

the pickup, instead of being at the home specifically--but that is already

taken care of by the " advance notice " part of the contract.

Oh, man, if I was faced with that sort of meeting, I would run like hell in

the other direction. So, kudos to your husband for being willing to do it

for the kids' sake.

Oh, and good for you to not back down on the CPS thing. If there is still

concern, it's good for her to know that you will keep on calling. It gets

it into the CPS file, which can then be considered in court as necessary.

And grr, CPS mentioning the photos? They're not supposed to do that, I

don't think. But oh well. What's done is done--and it put into motion this

long-needed meeting.

I have to go get my eyes checked this afternoon, but yeah, anytime you're

done, please just email me directly. What's your personal deadline for the

contract today? Or do you just need it by tomorrow when your hubby and his

psycho ex meets?

> **

>

> I need some help & suggestions, please.

>

> As I've stated, we recently had to call CPS again. Hubby's ex wife is

> extremely upset and knows it was up due to them mentioning the photos.

> She states that the case worker has once again said that the case is

> unsubstantiated and is " a joke " and that if we continue to call CPS

> that hubby's ex (Let's call her " jane " ) can press charges for

> harassment and that CPS can press charges against us.

>

> I called them back. Asked if this was true. Our state is a " mandated

> state " which means ANYONE who suspects child abuse and/or neglect is

> required to call, not just teachers, medical professionals, etc. CPS

> said that hubby can call our county office and do a verification

> process on the phone (to ensure it is him and not someone else) to

> speak to the case worker. ly, if we can have charges brought

> against us, I think they ought to be telling us themselves. I'm sure

> not going to believe her.

>

> Now, she wants to meet with us in a public place before we get the

> kids this weekend. (I must say this shocks me because I have

> suggested Mike ask her to do this very thing on MANY ocassions!!!) We

> picked a family style restaurant in town. We are meeting her this

> Saturday at noon.

>

> Hubby & I have sat down & made notes on the issues we wish to speak

> about. While we were writing them down, he was texting her to tell

> her when and where (she said " name your time & place " .... so we did.)

> She seems to think we're going to attack her or something (!!!???!!!)

> She told him, multiple times I might add, via text, that " this is

> going to stay on topic in regards to the CPS phone calls and nothing

> else " . Uh... DUH!!!! Yes, yes it is!!!! We have very legitimate

> concerns here which is WHY we called CPS in the first place. I don't

> know WHAT she is thinking.... I suspect she thinks we're doing this as

> some sort of sick vengeance thing, and it IS NOT at all about that. I

> feel the need to type the following in all caps... IT HAS EVERYTHING

> TO DO WITH THE CHILDREN. EVERYTHING. This is not a vendetta. This

> is not personal. This is about the safety, health & welfare of THE

> KIDS.

>

> Ok, now... here's where I really would like your help.

>

> I don't care how hokey it sounds, but I am writing out a list for

> " rules of engagement " , so to speak. This will not be a f***ing fight

> if I can help it, but we are dealing with someone who is very likely

> BPD. So, I am fully prepared for the finger pointing, manipulation,

> excuses, and potential for her to just get in there, say what she

> wants to say & get up and leave. Hey, that'd be the true BPD way, so

> I'm not putting it past her.

>

> But she says she wants to talk about this, wants a discussion. She's

> accusing us all ready of getting off topic, etc. But, helloooooooo?

> Our issues are legitimate and if she wants to discuss the CPS phone

> call, they are absolutely ON TOPIC.

>

> So, I need help for our " rules " . Ideas taken from a website about

> high-conflict divorce at

> http://www.mrcustodycoach.com/blog/top-10-rules-of-low-contact

>

> Here's what I have so far....

>

> 0.) The following rules will pertain to this conversation and every

> conversation about the children from this point forward (I need to

> phrase this better).

>

> 1.) Everyone will speak respectfully to one another. No screaming,

> yelling, insults or over-use of swearing. Please, let's be civilized

> with each other.

>

> 2.) No texting or other cell phone use during face to face

> discussions. Everyone should be considerate and give each other their

> full attention. The kids are important; this discussion is therefore

> important.

>

> 3.) No talking over one another. Please keep each point you wish to

> discuss down to 3 - 5 minutes and then allow the other person to

> respond. They will then have 3 - 5 minutes as well before going back

> to the other party.

>

> 4.) Keep the conversation focused on the children. No personal

> information is allowed to be discussed unless it directly affects the

> kids. Examples of non-child focused discussion include but are not

> limited to the following: Financial concerns (examples I'm thinking

> of is her & her mother's whining all the time about money problems,

> about theft of things, boyfriends, friends (of hubby's ex), etc.);

> Conversations will only be about the children - it is NOT about the

> adults, it has EVERYTHING to do with <kids names here>. Examples of

> acceptable discussions include, but are not limited to the following:

> School events like extra-curricular activites (day, time, place),

> school absences and reasons for absences, all and any illnesses

> including any medications the children are taking, dates and times of

> doctors appointments, and other important and pertinent information

> regarding the children.

>

> 5.) Acceptable forms of communication - From this point forward, all

> conversations between Hubby & ex wife (will put their names) will be

> in writing unless a face to face discussion is absolutely necessary.

> The parents may communicate with one another using email and a

> calendar (for children's events) at http://www.gmail.com and with

> google calendar. Hubby's contact email is <insert here .... we're

> making a new one>. If a face to face discussion is absolutely

> necessary, then arrangements will be made via gmail. Gmail is a free

> account, and in order for both parents to share the calendar tool,

> both parents will need a Gmail email account.

>

> 5a.) Rules specific to written contact - All above rules apply, but

> specific rules include the following:

> 1. Only father and mother will communicate with one another

> via written contact. Any content sent through Gmail or text messages

> will be assumed to be from the parents. No one else will use

> fathers/mothers Gmail account.

> 2. Text messages should only be sent in case of immediate

> issue. Example: Car breaking down and children arriving at meeting

> point late, etc.

> 3. When one parent has answered a question in a manner that

> seems unsatisfactory to the other parent, only the parents will

> communicate with each other. It is not acceptable for other

> relatives, step parents, friends, etc. to contact the parent to try &

> pressure them into changing their mind.

> a. The only time it is appropriate for direct

> contact from anyone who is not the parent of the children to contact

> the other parent are in times of emergency (example: They are taking

> the child to school & the vehicle breaks down.) All contact in this

> case will also be in writing in the form of text messaging.

> 4. The only time that phone calls are appropriate are in

> cases of true emergency. (Example: Child is hurt or injured &

> requires immediate treatment.)

> 5. Neither parent will be in person at the other parent's

> place of residence or place of employment.

>

> 6.) Drop off & pick up times and place

> a. Father will pick children up every Saturday at 12:00 pm

> (noon). Mother will meet him at <public half-way meeting point we

> decided on> and will be no more than 15 minutes late. Any time beyond

> 15 minutes will be considered a failure to drop off or pick up the

> children.

> b. Mother will pick children up every Sunday at 7:00 pm.

> Father will meet her at <same public place>. Any time beyond 15

> minutes will be considered a failure to drop off or pick up the

> children.

> c. If parent is more than 15 minutes late and has not sent a

> text message stating emergent reason for delay, the parent who has the

> children will return to their home with the children and document the

> failure to drop off or pick up.

> d. Unless otherwise stated at least one week in advance, the

> drop of place will be <public place, address included>.

>

> 7.) Time frames for notification

> a. When notice is received of any events pertaining to the

> children (see section above), the parent who receives the notice about

> the event will let the other parent know via Gmail the day the notice

> is received. Minimum requirement for notification of the other parent

> for school events, doctor apts, etc is one week with special

> exceptions made for last minute emergencies (Example: A parent being

> required to work on a day they would normally have the children)

>

> Anyway.... I am getting more & more ideas as I type this here, so I

> think it's time to just take it into MS Word & start working on it,

> but you obviously get the idea of what we're going for her... a

> contract that outlines what is acceptable and what is not.

>

> We have agreed that we will try to get her on board with this tomorrow

> BEFORE the meeting on Saturday. Other things I plan to include is

> that IT IS OK FOR EITHER PARENT TO CALL CPS IF THEY GENUINELY SUSPECT

> ABUSE AND/OR NEGLECT. She doesn't like it, TOO BAD. Please, hubby's

> ex... if you think we are hurting the kids, feel free to call. We

> have nothing to hide.

>

> Anyway, I have been talking to hubby about doing something like this

> for a long time. Now, he's finally on board.

>

> Thanks all. Sorry I've written a novel here. But yes, please... I

> need help with this, particularly with wording. So anyone who's up to

> the task of proof reading, let me know or feel free to communicate

> with me directly at this email (zobimia@...). If you mail off

> list, though, please be sure to let me know you're from the list in

> the subject line otherwise it will be overlooked. (I don't open

> emails from strangers LOL)

>

> Thanks again, Mia AND Mia's hubby who is also grateful for input from

> adult survivors. We want to make sure the kids survive AND thrive.

>

February 3, 2012

I suggest that you take your lawyer with you for this meeting, or an off-duty

cop, or a private detective posing as your " friend " , or someone who can act as a

reliable witness. I also suggest that you record the meeting with her knowledge

and consent. This is just speculation or a hunch on my part, but I think she

could planning something ugly, something like accusing you of trashing her home

and then taking pictures of it to make her look bad. Or she could be planning

some kind of physical attack, even. I think she's at that level of retaliation

or revenge-seeking. So, I'm suggesting that its not a good idea to meet with

her without an eye-witness and/or an audio/video recording as evidence.

-Annie