Armour - help with dosing

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

Not sure if you'll remember what was going on with

me...I have Hashimoto's, and in December, I decided to

stop taking my Armour thyroid med. I was hoping to go

HYPER and get RAI, but instead, I went HYPO. So, by

mid-January, I decided to go back onto the

Armour...this time, starting at a lower dose and

increasing it slower (previously, my doc had me start

at 30mg and increase it by 30mg every 2 weeks).

In mid-January, I started taking 15mg of Armour every

day...my basal temp went from 97.2 to 98.3 within a

week, and during that time, my back pain decreased and

I had a little more energy. But then, my basal temp

started to slowly drop again, and after 2 weeks and 3

days, my temp was 97.7...plus, my back pain was back

again and I was more tired.

So, even though I was planning on waiting at least a

month before increasing the Armour to 30mg, I decided

to go ahead and increase it on January 31st. Although

my back pain is a little better, I don't have any more

energy yet, and I'm trying to understand my basal

temp...on the day I took 30mg of Armour, my basal temp

was 97.7, and the same on the 2nd day. On the 3rd day,

it increased to 97.9, but dropped again today to 97.7.

Any thoughts? Am I expecting results too soon? Did I

increase from 15mg to 30mg too soon?

Thanks so much, as always!

M.

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[Guest guest]

It sounds like it could be adrenal problems that are the back pain culprit. Often our thyroid hormones will trigger them to fire out a bit and that ends the back pain... and that starts the up and down cycle of energy loss, fatigue and back pain. So many doctors know tiredness is part of being hypo, but they rarely understand the adrenal gland connection....*sigh*.

From my understanding you're supposed to average out your basal for the week.... have a certain day every week where you add up the seven day amounts and divide them by seven... you'll get your average temp . For instance if you add up the last four temps you listed, you get 391.0. If you divide that by 4*** you'll get 97.75. And that would be your average...

It does sound like your dosage is still a bit off, ALTHOUGH... after you increase your armour for 2-3 months after you may have that energy drop as your adrenal glands also get used to the dosage. So it would probably be a good thing to talk to your doc about it.... maybe have them run some adrenal tests after you stay on your dosage for a while and see what the numbers say. They're going to be off, but you'll at least know where they are... my doc told me when I asked years ago.. 'well, I know they're not going to be accurate, so what's the point?'.. coulda slapped the man .

I don't know if I would increase the dosage that quickly, either way if you do, you'll have back pain until the adrenal glands recover from not working so well... it will take a while for them to become healthy again. I wish I could remember where that post is in the group that talks about thyroid and adrenal function... it went something like this... after taking your thyroid hormone (usually natural thyroid) for a few weeks-months, you will feel pretty good and then your energy will drop out, you might get puffy faced again and your back will start hurting - much like period cramps if you're a woman... and that is why many people go off of armour because they feel so crappy initially on it. The reason for that is the adrenal glands are finally waking up and being stimulated after going for so long without adequate prodding, I guess LOL. Then sometimes they over prod or under... and the cycle continues. When the thyroid dosage levels out so the adrenal glands are not getting so 'worked up' they resume a more normal fashion although can still be slightly or very depleated in energy.

I hope that helps and that I haven't left out anything..

Good luck,

(***although you should take your temp 3-4 times a day, waking up, mid day, mid evening, before bed... and average it out for the day THEN average it out for the week doing the same math). You'll get a more accurate reading that way.

_____________________________Any information given or dispensed by myself is from my own experience and I am not a medical professional (yet). It is not intended to treat, cure, diagnose, etc. but only to help other patients gain information and understanding of their own conditions or possibly an underlying illness. Please consult with your doctor or a trained medical professional regarding your own personal case history and your best treatment options.

Armour - help with dosing

Hi everyone,Not sure if you'll remember what was going on withme...I have Hashimoto's, and in December, I decided tostop taking my Armour thyroid med. I was hoping to goHYPER and get RAI, but instead, I went HYPO. So, bymid-January, I decided to go back onto theArmour...this time, starting at a lower dose andincreasing it slower (previously, my doc had me startat 30mg and increase it by 30mg every 2 weeks).In mid-January, I started taking 15mg of Armour everyday...my basal temp went from 97.2 to 98.3 within aweek, and during that time, my back pain decreased andI had a little more energy. But then, my basal tempstarted to slowly drop again, and after 2 weeks and 3days, my temp was 97.7...plus, my back pain was backagain and I was more tired. So, even though I was planning on waiting at least amonth before increasing the Armour to 30mg, I decidedto go ahead and increase it on January 31st. Althoughmy back pain is a little better, I don't have any moreenergy yet, and I'm trying to understand my basaltemp...on the day I took 30mg of Armour, my basal tempwas 97.7, and the same on the 2nd day. On the 3rd day,it increased to 97.9, but dropped again today to 97.7.Any thoughts? Am I expecting results too soon? Did Iincrease from 15mg to 30mg too soon?Thanks so much, as always! M.__________________________________________________________Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.

[Guest guest]

Hey , sounds like you're like me!!!

After I do a dosage increase my basal temp goes up a few points for a few days... then it will drop back down, but to a point that is higher than it was before the increase.. same thing happens with my resting pulse rate.. it will go up a few beats a minute for a few days and then drop back down...

The changes were a LOT more noticeable when I first started up on hormone 4 1/2 years ago.. .not so noticeable this time BUT back then my resting heart rate was only 50 and my basal temps was below 97... this time I hadn't dropped that far down (I had been off meds for three years back then), this time I was short dosing for nearly a year and then ran out for a few weeks).

My logic for this slight rise and then drop is this (though I may be wrong, it just seems logical to me)

The body senses the increase in hormone, and it needs it sooo back that it just starts sucking it up.. trying to kick up body processes to get things working right again. Since basal temp has such a strong impact on digestion and body maintenance it seems to be one that is kicked up.... at least in me.

But.. after a few days the body sees that the increase, though needed, is still not bringing things up to the level needed to be healthy, so it steps back the things that it's started to speed up (speed up is a loose term, basal temp rises, heart rate speeds up.... but for a broad spectrum term I used 'speed up' when referencing the body increasing metabolic rate and function in all it's aspects). During this same period of time there is still the feedback loop with the hypothalamus and pituitary, and in your case the Hashi's antibodies, that will cause the TSH to fluctuate, likely drop a bit, causing the gland to decrease production just a tad...

So... you added a quarter grain.. your body did a WOOHOO we got more comin gang, lets get back to work!!! and then it sees that it's only a wee bit more and had better calm down and wait to see if more is a comin.

Since a 1/4 grain (15 mg) is a really small starting dose..AND your body reacted so much like mine dose... I'd venture to say that you can stay on the 30 that you've just increased to and keep monitoring your basals... watch to see the slight rise.. the bit of a drop.. watch to see if it then remains stable for a while..... and do your next increase in about four weeks.... you might not need to wait the full six... watch your body close, keep your notes/chart. You've already been doing that stuff so you know how...

This time around, for me, with getting back on hormone. I doing the pain cycling thing too. It SUCKS. I did this short test on my bedtime dosing and found that I'm still sensitive to time of day/night dosing and how it relates to my body's ability to rest/heal/recover during sleep. I dosed properly last night and no waking pain this morning. This fascinates me... to be able to change timing, or type of med, and be able to predict pain/no pain response.

I get a pain response from adding too much synthetic T4 too.... I had gradually worked my dose of T4 up to 200 mcg.. that triggered a tendon issue in my left leg and I started having lock ups... backed it off and the lock ups (the tendons in the leg would seize, leaving my leg stuck in whichever state of bend or straight it was in when the tendons decided to go on strike- believe me.. when it happened while standing up from a sitting position and my leg locked partially bent, it was NO fun trying to walk around with one normal leg and one that was stuck a foot shorter!). As I played around with the T4 I found that at 100 mcg per day I wouldn't lock the leg but the tendons would give, boink, pop something... it made a sound, then a nerve would pinch and the leg would go on vacation and I'd fall down.. that was a lot of fun too, but I usually heard/felt the pop before the leg let go. In either case, if I dropped the T4 within 2 to 3 days the leg would be back to normal again.

My numbers have been stable for a couple of weeks now.. and I'm due for my 48 day increase in two days (48 days cuz I have 12 days worth of pill boxes, and I'm filling them, for now, 4 times before I do a dosage increase. If I have trouble as the dose gets higher, I did before at about the 3 grain mark, I'll change that to five or six fills of the boxes between dosage changes, to allow my body more time to adjust..... I'm nervous about the increase... the last one caused some adjustment/pain/anxiety response... I'm hoping it won't be so bad this time.... but my body has always been sensitive to change in dosages, going up or down in amounts.

I do understand this is part of what my body has to go through with the adjustments, and that it will pass and that I'll feel better once adjusted.. but it really sucks to go through it.. and know that I'm gonna be going through it...

It's not as bad as when I first started on the T4 after my RAI.. that made me physically ill... from anxiety and panic attacks to actually throwing up.... Should have been a clue, that strong a reaction, that my body didn't like the Synthroid... or the Levoxyl... or the Levothyroxine.. we tried them all.... but the endo didn't use natural thyroid and I didn't know better.. so that's what I had to take... 8 years later I was so messed up I couldn't even walk on my own.. and started needing the crutches... and no doc ever picked it up... sigh

Hang in there ... Slow and easy, watch your body, learn to understand what it's telling you....

Just my observations and thoughts on how my body reacts... you still have to use your own good common sense to decide what is best for you....

Topper ()

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 07:03:42 -0800 (PST) " J. McCormick" writes:> Hi everyone,> > Not sure if you'll remember what was going on with> me...I have Hashimoto's, and in December, I decided to> stop taking my Armour thyroid med. I was hoping to go> HYPER and get RAI, but instead, I went HYPO. So, by> mid-January, I decided to go back onto the> Armour...this time, starting at a lower dose and> increasing it slower (previously, my doc had me start> at 30mg and increase it by 30mg every 2 weeks).> > In mid-January, I started taking 15mg of Armour every> day...my basal temp went from 97.2 to 98.3 within a> week, and during that time, my back pain decreased and> I had a little more energy. But then, my basal temp> started to slowly drop again, and after 2 weeks and 3> days, my temp was 97.7...plus, my back pain was back> again and I was more tired. > > So, even though I was planning on waiting at least a> month before increasing the Armour to 30mg, I decided> to go ahead and increase it on January 31st. Although> my back pain is a little better, I don't have any more> energy yet, and I'm trying to understand my basal> temp...on the day I took 30mg of Armour, my basal temp> was 97.7, and the same on the 2nd day. On the 3rd day,> it increased to 97.9, but dropped again today to 97.7.> > > Any thoughts? Am I expecting results too soon? Did I> increase from 15mg to 30mg too soon?> > Thanks so much, as always!> > M.

[Guest guest]

:

Well, what you tell us there makes perfect sense.

No or less hormone? You would logically go hypO.

If you add it back in, you would start to get out of

the hypO zone, but if you don't add in the hormone,

soon enough (in short enough increments) the body

would begin to CRASH hypO again.

On goes hypO to get RAI after TT. I'm not sure I

follow why if you had Hashi's you would get RAI. Is

this really necessary?

Do you have cancer..or Graves?

~E:)

--- " J. McCormick " mccormicklj@...>

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> Not sure if you'll remember what was going on with

> me...I have Hashimoto's, and in December, I decided

> to

> stop taking my Armour thyroid med. I was hoping to

> go

> HYPER and get RAI, but instead, I went HYPO. So, by

> mid-January, I decided to go back onto the

> Armour...this time, starting at a lower dose and

> increasing it slower (previously, my doc had me

> start

> at 30mg and increase it by 30mg every 2 weeks).

>

> In mid-January, I started taking 15mg of Armour

> every

> day...my basal temp went from 97.2 to 98.3 within a

> week, and during that time, my back pain decreased

> and

> I had a little more energy. But then, my basal temp

> started to slowly drop again, and after 2 weeks and

> 3

> days, my temp was 97.7...plus, my back pain was back

> again and I was more tired.

>

> So, even though I was planning on waiting at least a

> month before increasing the Armour to 30mg, I

> decided

> to go ahead and increase it on January 31st.

> Although

> my back pain is a little better, I don't have any

> more

> energy yet, and I'm trying to understand my basal

> temp...on the day I took 30mg of Armour, my basal

> temp

> was 97.7, and the same on the 2nd day. On the 3rd

> day,

> it increased to 97.9, but dropped again today to

> 97.7.

>

>

> Any thoughts? Am I expecting results too soon? Did I

> increase from 15mg to 30mg too soon?

>

> Thanks so much, as always!

>

> M.

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Have a burning question?

> Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from

> real people who know.

>

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

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[Guest guest]

I'm glad you pointed that out!  So, what is the ideal time increment in between doses?Jackie but if you don't add in the hormone,soon enough (in short enough increments) the bodywould begin to CRASH hypO again.

[Guest guest]

Jackie:

For everyone this is different, but if you read the

package inserts for Armour, it says one should add 15

mgs every two weeks...unitil they reach their set

point.

NOW...when we look at someone who is changing out

synthetic for Armour this could change things a bit.

(you could have a severe drop in t4 and/or

simultaenously a CRASH of t3 and t4) For some this

may ACTUALLY feel good..but won't stay...for others,

this is pure misery.

As many of you know...I'm not a big fan of the total

sudden change out...because if you body doesn't like

it, the t4 hormone can be a long time in replaceing.

~E:)

--- Ken & Jackie Reimer quest4us@...>

wrote:

> > I'm glad you pointed that out! So, what is the

> ideal time

> > increment in between doses?

>

> Jackie

> >

> >

>

>

>

> > but if you don't add in the hormone,

> > soon enough (in short enough increments) the body

> > would begin to CRASH hypO again.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

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[Guest guest]

Hi E~I meant throughout the day, in what time increments to take the dosages? Say I take 1 1/2 grains, would I take 1/2 grain every four hours? Or so???JackieJackie:For everyone this is different, but if you read thepackage inserts for Armour, it says one should add 15mgs every two weeks...unitil they reach their setpoint.NOW...when we look at someone who is changing outsynthetic for Armour this could change things a bit.(you could have a severe drop in t4 and/orsimultaenously a CRASH of t3 and t4) For some thismay ACTUALLY feel good..but won't stay...for others,this is pure misery.As many of you know...I'm not a big fan of the totalsudden change out...because if you body doesn't likeit, the t4 hormone can be a long time in replaceing.~E:)

[Guest guest]

jackie:

Oh..your are talking splitting your doses. AHA!

yes..you could do it that way!

Well this is also individual. I take a grain a

day...split twice. Meaning...two 30 mgs pills.

If you are taking it split three times you could take

the biggest dose first thing, then the last two could

be split evenly four hours apart.

-- one grain and two 1/4s.

You just have to experiment with it to see how it

works.

~E

--- Ken & Jackie Reimer quest4us@...>

wrote:

> Hi E~

>

> I meant throughout the day, in what time increments

> to take the

> dosages? Say I take 1 1/2 grains, would I take 1/2

> grain every four

> hours? Or so???

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> > Jackie:

> >

> > For everyone this is different, but if you read

> the

> > package inserts for Armour, it says one should add

> 15

> > mgs every two weeks...unitil they reach their set

> > point.

> >

> > NOW...when we look at someone who is changing out

> > synthetic for Armour this could change things a

> bit.

> >

> > (you could have a severe drop in t4 and/or

> > simultaenously a CRASH of t3 and t4) For some this

> > may ACTUALLY feel good..but won't stay...for

> others,

> > this is pure misery.

> >

> > As many of you know...I'm not a big fan of the

> total

> > sudden change out...because if you body doesn't

> like

> > it, the t4 hormone can be a long time in

> replaceing.

> >

> > ~E:)

> >

>

>

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

I tried splitting doses yesterday and forgot the evening dose, I was on the road and thought darn I'm tired, ooops, forgot a dose. Would having missed that dose be what made me tired? I did take it when i got home, but it wasn't on time. Jackiejackie:Oh..your are talking splitting your doses. AHA!yes..you could do it that way!Well this is also individual. I take a grain aday...split twice. Meaning...two 30 mgs pills.If you are taking it split three times you could takethe biggest dose first thing, then the last two couldbe split evenly four hours apart.-- one grain and two 1/4s.You just have to experiment with it to see how itworks.~E

[Guest guest]

Jackie:

Well for those of us who do split...On some level a

good memory is helpful, but so it having a little pill

box with your pills inside.

I'm thinking of ordering a cute pill holder from

on-line.

~E:)

--- Ken & Jackie Reimer quest4us@...>

wrote:

> I tried splitting doses yesterday and forgot the

> evening dose, I was

> on the road and thought darn I'm tired, ooops,

> forgot a dose. Would

> having missed that dose be what made me tired? I did

> take it when i

> got home, but it wasn't on time.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > jackie:

> >

> > Oh..your are talking splitting your doses. AHA!

> >

> > yes..you could do it that way!

> >

> > Well this is also individual. I take a grain a

> > day...split twice. Meaning...two 30 mgs pills.

> >

> > If you are taking it split three times you could

> take

> > the biggest dose first thing, then the last two

> could

> > be split evenly four hours apart.

> > -- one grain and two 1/4s.

> >

> > You just have to experiment with it to see how it

> > works.

> >

> > ~E

> >

>

>

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

T3 has a very short half life and missing a dose can make a difference in energy. That's what I found anyway. I kept forgetting my afternoon dose so often that I just gave up, but if I could have remembered, it would definitely be the way to go. Do you have an alarm on your watch? I never did that, but now I'm thinking that it might have been a good idea. Part of my problem was that I would remember just after I ate, or just before and I didn't care for taking it sublingually. Did you perk up a couple hours after you took it?... Judy

I tried splitting doses yesterday and forgot the evening dose, I was on the road and thought darn I'm tired, ooops, forgot a dose. Would having missed that dose be what made me tired? I did take it when i got home, but it wasn't on time.

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

I get narcoleptic when I miss a dose.. so yeah, that could very well have been it.

Topper ()

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:14:29 -0800 Ken & Jackie Reimer writes:

I tried splitting doses yesterday and forgot the evening dose, I was on the road and thought darn I'm tired, ooops, forgot a dose. Would having missed that dose be what made me tired? I did take it when i got home, but it wasn't on time.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

E... make one like mine!!!!

hehehe

Topper ()

www.thyrophoenix.com/thyrogeek's_pill_paks.htm

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:29:20 -0800 (PST) E Gillespie

lyongillespie@...> writes:

>

> Jackie:

>

> Well for those of us who do split...On some level a

> good memory is helpful, but so it having a little pill

> box with your pills inside.

>

> I'm thinking of ordering a cute pill holder from

> on-line.

>

> ~E:)