why did we lose the gains of mb-12

[Guest guest]

just wanted to know if benefits from mb-12 tend to be temporary, or do they generally last?our son showed some immediate gains from mb-12, speech went from 2 words to 30 words to over 100 words - all in the space of 4 - 6 weeks. based on this success, we went to dr. neubrander- the self-proclaimed godfather of mb-12 for kids on the spectrum... who sold us on hypebaric. we were told most mb-12 responders do well with hbot (something no parent or other dan has ever backed up), so we gave it a try.we got no gains, and gradually, our son's very crude but crisper language deteriorated again. he still has words, but they are a shadow of what they were when we first did mb-12. did the hbot screw this up? or is mb-12 a temporary fix for certain children?i ask this because we did antiviral for the last year, and pulled him

off of mb-12 all together. we did not see a major back slide when he went off of the mb-12, the speech degradation had already happened a year prior. since antiviral did next to nothing, it is time to change course - again. we have been thinking about giving mb-12 one more try, but wanted to know if anyone had any insight into the prior experience we had.MATTO

[Guest guest]

Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc, minerals

etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it work, or the

gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off, detox, and can flare

yeast up. Did you consider these things?

Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

also according to andy cutler hbot can cause certain toxins metals to be pushed further into the brain.

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:11 PMSubject: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc, minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off, detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things? Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Channa and ,i had heard this, the hbot pushing metals. we did five months of ac chelation after hbot - ala specifically. we got next to nothing. he did move his tongue around more, and alot of verbal stims - noises not words. wouldn't this have helped if the metals were pushed into the brain by hbot? did we give it enough time? if no how much? i am almost afraid to say it but is iv chelation worth trying? also of note on chelation is he had a "reaction" to oral dmsa - it activated a rash all along his trunk, arms, etc. i thought for sure this was a sign of viral - related problems, but after 12 months of valtrex, immunovir, and other antivirals, no major

improvement.supporting supps - when we went over to neubrander, we switched his regimen up - went over to dr. n powder, etc. he was extremely well - supplemented at this time, as well as before but not in a one-size-fits-all formula. ironically, we did better with mb-12 from our pediatrician than we ever did with dr. n. when we did hbot we were not on an antifungal - which was insane. we were still pretty new to this stuff, and clueless. and yes his bacteria - specifically strep and klebsiella - in addition to all kinds of yeast - spiked. but we did antifungals since - everything from lamisil, sporanax, diflucan (was on this for a year), nizoral - and with the exception of a brief period of improvement with sporanax (verbal did not improve but focus / clarity did, for two weeks or so)...

nothing.long story short we saw noticeable gains with ndf plus and mb-12. that was very early on in the process.it has been years since we got anything meaningful, and it is getting really tough to keep doing this. i feel like we are getting close to the end of the road here. ps - ivig is one other thing we have kicked around. ps 2 - and our guy has a cavity that needs to be filled, and the dentist says it can't be filled with porcelain - it's too big (and on the molar - not easy to brush with our son's tactile defensiveness regarding the mouth), that we have to do stainless steel... which kind of throws a huge wrinkle in any plans for chelation

right?MATTOTo: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:15 PMSubject: Re: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

also according to andy cutler hbot can cause certain toxins metals to be pushed further into the brain.

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:11 PMSubject: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc, minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off, detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things? Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Wow Matto, tough questions..

i feel for you I do..I know what it is like to feel like the blind man in the desert..

my instincts for what it is worth..is you did not see results with chelation because of other things going on..not because it isnt helpful for your son. i would be worried about iv chelation I know it has helped some kids but i have also heard stories that it made others worse..it is a crap shoot when you do the strong stuff..

about the dental fillings i would stay away from metal even steel..i would find a dentist that does patability testing and go with some acrylic composite..there is one called diamond..lot of people have there fillings replaced with composites..porcelin would be best...maybe get second opinion call around dr mercela talks about this stuff on his site.

and again just givin you my opinion you know grain of salt thing..

but if it were me and this what i do ..hell this is s what i do...when i am going at too many things at once too much info at once..I just go back to the basics...

I mean remove all supps get your kid on a real simple bland diet..i will make a pot of local veggie soup..let him eat that for a couple days get out my journal start writing down ALL reactions all bowel movements moods ect..and slowly start adding in one thing at a time...

have you tried bentonite clay baths? that may be a gentle way to start some detox..

stay away from friut grain...keep diet real simple ..gentle cooked veggie soups slowly add in bone broths.look for reactions ..try one fungal at a time..look at reactions...what symptoms are worse yeast or bacteria? if bacteria go with antibacterial first..go slow..I know the desire to dive into everything at once...but it is imperative to go slow ..and watch

channa

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:03 PMSubject: Re: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

Channa and ,

i had heard this, the hbot pushing metals. we did five months of ac chelation after hbot - ala specifically. we got next to nothing. he did move his tongue around more, and alot of verbal stims - noises not words. wouldn't this have helped if the metals were pushed into the brain by hbot? did we give it enough time? if no how much?

i am almost afraid to say it but is iv chelation worth trying? also of note on chelation is he had a "reaction" to oral dmsa - it activated a rash all along his trunk, arms, etc. i thought for sure this was a sign of viral - related problems, but after 12 months of valtrex, immunovir, and other antivirals, no major improvement.

supporting supps - when we went over to neubrander, we switched his regimen up - went over to dr. n powder, etc. he was extremely well - supplemented at this time, as well as before but not in a one-size-fits-all formula. ironically, we did better with mb-12 from our pediatrician than we ever did with dr. n.

when we did hbot we were not on an antifungal - which was insane. we were still pretty new to this stuff, and clueless. and yes his bacteria - specifically strep and klebsiella - in addition to all kinds of yeast - spiked. but we did antifungals since - everything from lamisil, sporanax, diflucan (was on this for a year), nizoral - and with the exception of a brief period of improvement with sporanax (verbal did not improve but focus / clarity did, for two weeks or so)... nothing.

long story short we saw noticeable gains with ndf plus and mb-12. that was very early on in the process.it has been years since we got anything meaningful, and it is getting really tough to keep doing this. i feel like we are getting close to the end of the road here.

ps - ivig is one other thing we have kicked around.

ps 2 - and our guy has a cavity that needs to be filled, and the dentist says it can't be filled with porcelain - it's too big (and on the molar - not easy to brush with our son's tactile defensiveness regarding the mouth), that we have to do stainless steel... which kind of throws a huge wrinkle in any plans for chelation right?

MATTO

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:15 PMSubject: Re: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

also according to andy cutler hbot can cause certain toxins metals to be pushed further into the brain.

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:11 PMSubject: Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc, minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off, detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things? Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Try to get a second opinion on the cavity if you can.

Re: why did we lose the gains of mb-12

Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc, minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off, detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things?

Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

I agree about mb12 sometimes needing other things - also sometimes there

can be too much mb12 after a while, or after adding certain things.

Folinic can be one of those things - it can work synergestically with

mb12, but sometimes dosing of both need to be tweaked a lot before the

right balance is found.

Natasa

>

> Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc,

minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it

work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off,

detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things?

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

[Guest guest]

I was going to say folinic, too.  It sounds like after using it for a while, the B12 depleted all of his folate (and perhaps other things) so the MB12 stopped working because the things that are needed to make it work have all been depleted.  I believe I've heard before that carnitine, folinic acid, and B2(?) are needed to make B12 work.  If it were me, I think I would add in carnitine and a good quality b-complex.  I would also do some pre-loading with folinic acid before re-starting the b12.

My daughter didn't respond to B12.  B12 wasn't the problem in that whole thing.  The precursor was missing and she couldn't convert folinic acid to MTHF, so the whole methylation cycle was broken (well, other things also contributed to her methylation being broken). 

Why it worked better with the pediatrician's b12 seems to fall in line with this model, too.  It worked better at first because there were great big stores of folinic at first.  As time went on, and by the time you saw dr. n, the folinic stores were probably pretty low and used up by the b12. 

 

I agree about mb12 sometimes needing other things - also sometimes there

can be too much mb12 after a while, or after adding certain things.

Folinic can be one of those things - it can work synergestically with

mb12, but sometimes dosing of both need to be tweaked a lot before the

right balance is found.

Natasa

>

> Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B, zinc,

minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to help it

work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off,

detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things?

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

[Guest guest]

yes, also if folinic works well for a child (there are different types,

if say Deplin does not work it is still worth trying Leucovorin etc) the

chances are he would need less mb12 than before.

Natasa

> > >

> > > Did dr. Neubrander recommend other vitamins as well? Other B,

zinc,

> > minerals etc? Apparently the B12 needs a host of other things to

help it

> > work, or the gains will be temporary. The HBOT also causes die off,

> > detox, and can flare yeast up. Did you consider these things?

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPad

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>