Re: strange identity crisis

[Guest guest]

It seems logical that you are experiencing an identity crisis as you are

discovering that most of what you built you self-identity on is false.

Once you remove these false premises, what is left? Who exactly are you?

I can only think this is the point at which you yourself must define who you

are, who you want to be, and then start becoming that. What will be difficult of

course, is that you won't become the new you straight away. You have spent yrs

as the old you, it will take time and effort to gravitate into the new year. It

is this interlude, the time when the old you is getting weaker, and the new you

stronger, that is difficult. You are in a grey zone, not really the old you and

not really the new you. What compounds the issue, is that most people will

continue to treat you as the old you, because that is who they know you to be.

May I ask, I have just discovered that my mother has BPD, so I am still in early

stages. I am considering seeing a therapist, but to be honest, I'm scared.

In my own mind, the worse thing I can imagine is that, after years of trying to

get away from my mother, the therapist will tell me that I am in fact, just like

her.

But I don't think I have BPD, I think I may have PTSD. Do you mind if I ask, did

your therapist give you an actual diagnosis, a label - such as PTSD - or are you

just attending for, well, talk therapy? And how long did she indicate therapy

might go on for?

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, 17 July 2011, 17:42

Subject: strange identity crisis

Â

I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that

my mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

[Guest guest]

oh yes i can relate.. she had me coming and going and punished me for any little

effort i ever tried to make towards asserting my real self, my real needs, wants

or feelings.  i had no basis with which to build any sort of identity for

myself thus had no idea for a long while of who i really was what my true

feelings were even, about anything but especially about myself.  but simply

realising that and beginning the quest to identify and feel my own unique and

real self was the big first step i took towards freedom and a sense of who i am,

which is developing even to this day.  one day and a time i have built my sense

of my own identity and it had taken much time and work but is soooo well worth

it and can even be an adventure at times, with a little help from my therapist

and my friends.  all this doesn't happen in a vaccum i have found, but in

relationship with good nourishing and supportive people.  and in my case my

higher power, my Lord and

God.  all the spirits in the universe have responded to the light of true

being in me and i have found a measure of freedom i have never felt before.  i

am blessed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subject: strange identity crisis

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 2:42 AM

 

I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that my

mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

[Guest guest]

Lell11,

I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and NP I

have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I will

experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong or

deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't. Working on it.

>

>

>

> Subject: strange identity crisis

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 2:42 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that my

> mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I love how you put it that she punished you 'for any little effort i ever tried

to make towards asserting my real feelings, needs or wants'.

it is a very strange abyss to be in. it's amazing to me that she had me so

brainwashed about what a horrible human being I was that i never questioned her

behavior, over specific incidents or collectively over time. it's so strange. I

feel like I have been thrown into a bog or a tar pit so many times by her

accusations. Like right now I know she is pissed at me because I have refused to

help my fada move the power line that brings power out to his garage and my

cabin. I have a bad back that I strain very easily and being that I do a

physical job 7 nights a week I can't risk it; he asked me to dig a trench across

the yard to bury the power line in and I was so shocked I had to ask him to

repeat himself. Plus I have no health insurance, no knowledge of electricity,

and no desire to stand there and take his abuse. for days I have been feeling

like a low life that my 60 something father with a heart problem is doing this

himself (instead of calling professionals like he should, because it is

illegally wired...one other reason I said no, because it needs to be done

professionally and I don't feel like enabling this crap) and I have refused to

be a part of it. All this mulling it back and forth in my mind and I completely

missed the most obvious factor, which is why does she not bring her spoiled-arse

behind out here and help him HERSELF? I spend several days beating myself up

about this until it hit me earlier that the very reason she doesn't ever help

him out in the yard or with any of his projects is because he is so verbally

abusive to anyone who gets within 5 feet of him. SHE isn't going to put up with

that, but she expects me to put myself within range of it. She has this massive

double standard for how she behaves, vs. how she expects me to behave.

That was a very articulate post, it expressed perfectly what I hope I will be

seeing and feeling as I get a bit further out from this.

>

> oh yes i can relate.. she had me coming and going and punished me for any

little effort i ever tried to make towards asserting my real self, my real

needs, wants or feelings. i had no basis with which to build any sort of

identity for myself thus had no idea for a long while of who i really was what

my true feelings were even, about anything but especially about myself. but

simply realising that and beginning the quest to identify and feel my own unique

and real self was the big first step i took towards freedom and a sense of who i

am, which is developing even to this day. one day and a time i have built my

sense of my own identity and it had taken much time and work but is soooo well

worth it and can even be an adventure at times, with a little help from my

therapist and my friends. all this doesn't happen in a vaccum i have found,

but in relationship with good nourishing and supportive people. and in my case

my higher power, my Lord and

> God. all the spirits in the universe have responded to the light of true

being in me and i have found a measure of freedom i have never felt before. i

am blessed.

[Guest guest]

yep, it is difficult sometimes to know what to do in any given situation.. i

will often pause and meditate for a moment and ask myself what i want in a

perfect world and where i don't need to give any consideration to others.. then

when i get an answer, i will modify where needed to account for other realities

including my limitations and any real desire i might have to accommodate others

i care for.  but i will try to determine what it is that i myself might want

first.  and doing what i want when others might disapprove is extremely

difficult for me still, yet i practice, practice practice doing just that and

when i fail (which happens quite a lot still) i find i bear the unpleasant

consequences which helps me change for the future.  there is nothing like the

pain of the present when it becomes bigger than the fear of change to help me

motivate myself to get my butt in gear.  not always necessary thank goodness,

but effective none the less.. hope

this may help a little.  it is hard work we are doing on ourselves, takes

time, energy and faith in the future, but soooo well worth it i believe.  good

luck.

Subject: Re: strange identity crisis

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 9:25 AM

 

Lell11,

I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and NP I

have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I will

experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong or

deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't.

Working on it.

>

>

>

> Subject: strange identity crisis

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 2:42 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that

my

> mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hope this posts, I am still having trouble posting, I responded to ann's post

and it looks like it got lost in the void somehow

I can relate to not knowing and second guessing myself.

gah...I just have to post right now i am feeling the most intense anger toward

12 step because I am thinking of SO MANY times over the years where I was

mistreated by family and interpreted the things I'd learned/read/or was told via

the program to mean that I was supposed to 'make amends' or 'make peace' in

order to smooth things over and it's such GARBAGE. not related to your post but

that is really coming up for me today as I examine why on earth these

relationships didn't end 22 years ago (which in itself was longer than they

needed to go on). I can think of example after example of times I should have

turned and not went back and I reached out to them no matter how f*cking badly

they treated me because I thought it was the spiritual or recovered thing to

do. I am full of anger right now just thinking about it.

f*********************ck....

no wonder it felt so damn hard and I had two relapses, it was, fubarred and

completely freaking codependent & full of people talking me out of my feelings

right and left for the sake of 'appearing' recovered. it's. not. that. freaking.

complicated, after all. sigh...well with all these revelations maybe I have a

chance now.

sorry to freestyle after your post, I am just 'in it' right now.

>

> Lell11,

> I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and NP I

have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I will

experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong or

deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't. Working on it.

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Ann...I posted a long post to your post, which was very beautiful and

articulate and helpful, so I thank you, but unfortunately it got 'sent'

according to the page but hasn't appeared here and probably won't...I'm getting

a bit frustrated as about 2/3 of my posts make it and the others just go into

the void.

there is something weird about being stifled this way...I love the illustration

you give about going from the id to the mature adult, sometimes we need these

things articulated explicity if we didn't learn them in chilhood, and I didn't,

that's for sure.

oddly enough now that i fully understand this missing piece it doesn't feel

'hard'. It feels like it is going to be easier than it ever has been, I just had

to accept that my mother is a completely delusional, dishonest, manipulative,

and in general full of shit person when it comes to me. I had that in a fada and

for so long I could not allow myself to believe that she was in the wrong

because I needed a 'good' parent. Well, she isn't one, in fact she's toxic to my

spirit and she's dangerous to my mental health. Game, set, match. Now that I

know this, things that I could never make sense of before are falling into

place. I could never let go of people who treated me badly because they treated

me like she treated me and she was a good person and a great mother. yada, yada,

nada. blah, blah, blah. What was harder was carrying the lie. I'm sorry it has

taken so long for me to pry myself off of this relationship, but I guess I am a

bit stubborn.

>

> yep, it is difficult sometimes to know what to do in any given situation.. i

will often pause and meditate for a moment and ask myself what i want in a

perfect world and where i don't need to give any consideration to others.. then

when i get an answer, i will modify where needed to account for other realities

including my limitations and any real desire i might have to accommodate others

i care for.  but i will try to determine what it is that i myself might want

first.  and doing what i want when others might disapprove is extremely

difficult for me still, yet i practice, practice practice doing just that and

when i fail (which happens quite a lot still) i find i bear the unpleasant

consequences which helps me change for the future.  there is nothing like the

pain of the present when it becomes bigger than the fear of change to help me

motivate myself to get my butt in gear.  not always necessary thank goodness,

but effective none the less.. hope

> this may help a little.  it is hard work we are doing on ourselves, takes

time, energy and faith in the future, but soooo well worth it i believe.  good

luck.

>

[Guest guest]

nooooooooooo 12 step programs definitely are not for everyone, and it appears

that at least at this time and at the particular meetings you went to it is not

your cup of tea.. i would just hope that you might have been able to 'take what

you like (if there was anything) and leave the rest'.. give the meetings a

chance (tried more than just one or two and that for more than one of two times)

and stood up for yourself when others may have tried to tell you what you

'should' do, telling them to take their own 'inventories' and let you take your

own. in other words, in 12 step ideally we all work on our own issues in our own

way at our own times.  true, these groups are far from ideal nor are the people

in them either.  but i have found that along with the principles (which i again

applied the 'take what i like and leave the rest motto) of these programs i

found the simple getting out of my shell and meeting people there very rewarding

at times (avoiding

the toxic ones of course) and i have made friends there who have lasted for

years.  people and the connections they can make are the bottom line for me,

showing real care and love for each other is what helps us be able to do the

growing and grieving we so desperately need to do.  so i would say to you and

others here, give it a good chance, you may be surprised at what you can find,

tho not at every meeting nor for every person at every time.  meetings are all

different, having different 'personalities' according to the people who happen

to be attending at a particular time.  sorry your experiences were soooooooooo

disappointing.  but don't give up hope .. others can be helpful if you can

persevere and find the right ones for you.  good luck.

Subject: Re: strange identity crisis

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 3:18 PM

 

I hope this posts, I am still having trouble posting, I responded to ann's

post and it looks like it got lost in the void somehow

I can relate to not knowing and second guessing myself.

gah...I just have to post right now i am feeling the most intense anger toward

12 step because I am thinking of SO MANY times over the years where I was

mistreated by family and interpreted the things I'd learned/read/or was told via

the program to mean that I was supposed to 'make amends' or 'make peace' in

order to smooth things over and it's such GARBAGE. not related to your post but

that is really coming up for me today as I examine why on earth these

relationships didn't end 22 years ago (which in itself was longer than they

needed to go on). I can think of example after example of times I should have

turned and not went back and I reached out to them no matter how f*cking badly

they treated me because I thought it was the spiritual or recovered thing to

do. I am full of anger right now just thinking about it.

f*********************ck....

no wonder it felt so damn hard and I had two relapses, it was, fubarred and

completely freaking codependent & full of people talking me out of my feelings

right and left for the sake of 'appearing' recovered. it's. not. that. freaking.

complicated, after all. sigh...well with all these revelations maybe I have a

chance now.

sorry to freestyle after your post, I am just 'in it' right now.

>

> Lell11,

> I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and NP I

have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I will

experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong or

deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't.

Working on it.

>

[Guest guest]

thanks ann, I did 12 step for ten years and on this issue it really f*cked me

up. LOL. Just in particular the branch I was in, and it's pretty common

knowledge they cant deal with trauma. it makes me sad but when I think of all

the people that relapsed and died or committed suicide most probably in part to

unresolved trauma I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I am on a Coda Loop

online, and I have yet to feel that way about Coda. In fact it seems pretty well

suited to me, they are always talking about family of origin stuff and letting

go of relationships. right now though I am just having massive amounts of anger

at the thought of all the years I wasted trying in futility to improve these

relationships, I laid myself right down and let them trample all over me, family

that is, and they had already done so for 20 freaking years. Right now my mother

is staging some big damn dramatic b.s act involving the whole family because I

haven't spoken to her in three days. The way I feel right now I could go the

rest of my life without speaking to her and it wouldn't bother me at all. I

NEVER should have spoken to her again after that incident at 22, and someone

along the way should have told me that. Ironically Coda is one of the few groups

that I did not participate in, because it just was not strong in that area...

and they probably would have been supportive and helpful.

A problem I have with 'taking what I want and leaving the rest' is that I have

never been able to really do that. I know friends that are able, so I know it's

possible, but I don't have filters that work that well and once something gets

in my head it stays there. I am being uber careful right now what I expose

myself to. Like people say I will take help anywhere I can get it so I hope

others are the same and will expose themselves to whatever they think will help

at least a few times. My feeling is that those folks in addiction recovery do

not know how to deal with trauma and the focus on 'cleaning one's side of the

street' and making amends and blah blah can be retraumatizing if you are dealing

with PD people or other insanity which is what populates the families of a great

many addicted people. I think the parents in that program projected their own

fear of not being forgiven by children onto their teachings instead of trying to

look at what is a reasonable and healthy reaction to trauma and abuse, which is

cut it off, and get out if at all possible.

>

> >

>

> > Lell11,

>

> > I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and NP

I have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I will

experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong or

deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't.

> Working on it.

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OMG, I participated for like one day in an online Al-anon forum when I felt like

I was drawing alcoholics into by life to resolve my issues with my own father

being one. It turns out I was drawing BPD's that just happened to be alcoholics.

My dad was NOT BPD, mom is and I have always considered my dad a " functioning

alcoholic " He was my stable parent. I made the mistake of saying he was a

functioning alcoholic and you'd have thought I had smacked someone the way the

wrath of god came down on my head! I severed my ties to that group asap.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Lell11,

> >

> > > I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP and

NP I have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I

will experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong

or deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't.

> > Working on it.

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yeah...

I haven't spoken to nada in five years. And I am still realizing after that

long how much she influenced every single little thought I ever had in my head.

Just this week I was eating clams with tartar sauce and thinking how good this

tartar sauce was, and it was years before I ever even tried it, all because NADA

didn't like it.

I was so brainwashed by her...all her likes became my likes, all her dislikes

became my dislikes. I was nothing but a carbon copy of her from the moment I

was born. I started worming out of her shadow in college, but tragically not

soon enough.

--.

[Guest guest]

And going on like that, of course you don't see how strangely she acts, because

it all seems normal. I was just thinking today how every single little

conversation was dominated by her and all about her, and her need to be

validated. And I grew up thinking that was what a relationship was! If she'd

hear that my dad complained about her to someone, back when I was a kid it was a

crime. She was always good and right and perfect, and no one should ever have

any cause to say anything less than glowing about her.

Now I look back at her behavior, and it was like, no wonder. I can only imagine

how trapped my father must have felt married to someone like that.

It's like everything you ever thought you knew as a kid gets totally tipped on

its head.

--.

[Guest guest]

I had a best friend in college whose parents were BOTH functioning alcoholics.

It really sucked, because neither one of them got bad enough to get help, they

could both work and keep their affairs in order, but neither was sober much.

There are all different kinds. I don't know why al-anon would have objected to

that. I have not done much al-anon, just because the few meetings I went to I

could never figure out what they were about. They weren't about the alcoholic,

but it seemed like you couldn't talk about anything else either. I know they

have helped a great many people, but I found it too confusing.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Lell11,

> > >

> > > > I would agree with Ann Letters. With this realization of my nada's BP

and NP I have begun this slow process of letting things go - and yes sometimes I

will experience a flood of memories that I now can look at as not me being wrong

or deficient, but were times I was being me and my nada put that down. I somehow

managed to know I am a good, kind and loving person and I have that reinforced

by my faith and good true family (my family) and friends. But I am still working

on discovering how I feel about things a lot, even what I like and don't like. I

find myself often having a hard time knowing what I want to do. I feel like my

nada dictated that so much, put down my individuality often enough that I

usually didn't think about what I wanted. It was safer not to. If I showed I

cared about something it might be taken away or scorned. Sometimes I feel stuck

in neutral not knowing which direction to go. I often put others first and feel

selfish if I don't.

> > > Working on it.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

that's exactly how I feel. and the disconcerting thing is, I have been through

this enough in recovery and i thought I was done with going 'wow, I was in

denial, that was really messed up. and yet that is how I am seeing things right

now...how it's a whole other complete layer of erroneous assumptions and

beliefs, because SHE has ended up being so wacked. I had annointed her with

sanity because I needed her to be sane. She sic' ed my father on me earlier

because she's acting all freaked out that I am not speaking to her. Normal

people would say, " have I offended you? " , while she sulks and sends my abusive

father after me to make me feel like crap. She knows how he treats me and that

shows she doesn't care, yet she wants ME to care about HER. The wonders never

cease. Thank god I have a therapy appointment to morrow.

I am so beyond over it. She blocked my email. If she doesn't want to communicate

with me I am happy to accomodate her. But I know that my father is going to say

abusive things to me, and she knows it too. It really upsets me to see how

little she has cared all these years when I was so convinced that she did care.

>

> And going on like that, of course you don't see how strangely she acts,

because it all seems normal. I was just thinking today how every single little

conversation was dominated by her and all about her, and her need to be

validated. And I grew up thinking that was what a relationship was! If she'd

hear that my dad complained about her to someone, back when I was a kid it was a

crime. She was always good and right and perfect, and no one should ever have

any cause to say anything less than glowing about her.

>

> Now I look back at her behavior, and it was like, no wonder. I can only

imagine how trapped my father must have felt married to someone like that.

>

> It's like everything you ever thought you knew as a kid gets totally tipped on

its head.

>

> --.

>

[Guest guest]

On the topic of functioning alcoholics who aren't bad enough to get help. .

.. That is their decision. Anyone can choose to stop a negative behavior at

any time. For a few years of my life I drank to deal with the pain. I drank

2 to 3 drinks every day. I never got wasted, never had a hangover etc etc.

But you know what? It was holding me back from my dreams and so I stopped.

Another friend of mine was a binge drinker. She drank on weekends to the

point of being ill. She had a little girl. She got help and stopped and is

so proud of herself. Another friend of mine smokes weed every day. I've

watched her go from having everything together to not even knowing what day

it is. I keep hoping she will get help and stop. . . .

So anyway, their are degrees. And people have to choose. I've been somewhat

socially ostracized by my drinking friends since I quit. But screw them I

get more done and my boyfriend never wants me to go back to my drinking

self. SO be it.

Your parents WERE bad enough to get help if they wanted it.

now

> **

>

>

>

> that's exactly how I feel. and the disconcerting thing is, I have been

> through this enough in recovery and i thought I was done with going 'wow, I

> was in denial, that was really messed up. and yet that is how I am seeing

> things right now...how it's a whole other complete layer of erroneous

> assumptions and beliefs, because SHE has ended up being so wacked. I had

> annointed her with sanity because I needed her to be sane. She sic' ed my

> father on me earlier because she's acting all freaked out that I am not

> speaking to her. Normal people would say, " have I offended you? " , while she

> sulks and sends my abusive father after me to make me feel like crap. She

> knows how he treats me and that shows she doesn't care, yet she wants ME to

> care about HER. The wonders never cease. Thank god I have a therapy

> appointment to morrow.

>

> I am so beyond over it. She blocked my email. If she doesn't want to

> communicate with me I am happy to accomodate her. But I know that my father

> is going to say abusive things to me, and she knows it too. It really upsets

> me to see how little she has cart is ed all these years when I was so

> convinced that she did care.

>

> >

> > And going on like that, of course you don't see how strangely she acts,

> because it all seems normal. I was just thinking today how every single

> little conversation was dominated by her and all about her, and her need to

> be validated. And I grew up thinking that was what a relationship was! If

> she'd hear that my dad complained about her to someone, back when I was a

> kid it was a crime. She was always good and right and perfect, and no one

> should ever have any cause to say anything less than glowing about her.

> >

> > Now I look back at her behavior, and it was like, no wonder. I can only

> imagine how trapped my father must have felt married to someone like that.

> >

> > It's like everything you ever thought you knew as a kid gets totally

> tipped on its head.

> >

> > --.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can share my therapy experience. I have a wonderful therapist who spotted

right off that my nada is disordered. She used the word narcissist with me

and I felt like she and I were on the same page. This is a very safe

feeling!

Â

All the literature says we should only work with a therapist who is well-versed

in personality disorders in order to deal with the trauma of growing up with a

nada/fada. Walking on Eggshells includes a " how to find a good therapist "

section as do many other books and websites.

Â

As far as diagnosis, yes, a therapist will diagnose you. It's the only way an

insurance company will cover the session(s)! But the diagnosis code can be

mundane like the one used for " Depression - mild " or whatever. Mine has never

told me what she classified me as on her records or for billing purposes.Â

Diagnosis labels can be harmful instead of helpful sometimes for clients. Â

Diagnosis and core pathologies are useful terms for clinicians but not as

much for lay people. What is helpful, though, is to have someone who can

identify with you how you are feeling and help you walk through today's feelings

on to tomorrow's wellness. We don't need labels to do that.

Â

I wish you well as you carefully search out and question therapists before you

decide who will work well with you.

Â

Best,

Cassie

Â

To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 >

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 3:42 AM

Subject: Re: strange identity crisis

Â

It seems logical that you are experiencing an identity crisis as you are

discovering that most of what you built you self-identity on is false.

Once you remove these false premises, what is left? Who exactly are you?

I can only think this is the point at which you yourself must define who you

are, who you want to be, and then start becoming that. What will be difficult of

course, is that you won't become the new you straight away. You have spent yrs

as the old you, it will take time and effort to gravitate into the new year. It

is this interlude, the time when the old you is getting weaker, and the new you

stronger, that is difficult. You are in a grey zone, not really the old you and

not really the new you. What compounds the issue, is that most people will

continue to treat you as the old you, because that is who they know you to be.

May I ask, I have just discovered that my mother has BPD, so I am still in early

stages. I am considering seeing a therapist, but to be honest, I'm scared.

In my own mind, the worse thing I can imagine is that, after years of trying to

get away from my mother, the therapist will tell me that I am in fact, just like

her.

But I don't think I have BPD, I think I may have PTSD. Do you mind if I ask, did

your therapist give you an actual diagnosis, a label - such as PTSD - or are you

just attending for, well, talk therapy? And how long did she indicate therapy

might go on for?

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, 17 July 2011, 17:42

Subject: strange identity crisis

Â

I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that

my mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

[Guest guest]

yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.

Â

Cassie

Â

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 2:42 AM

Subject: strange identity crisis

Â

I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that my

mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

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..

[Guest guest]

Identity Crisis.yes I've been having that issue come up this past week. In

another post I mentioned that I felt like a Shell.I feel like I'm just

floating here. Not really feeling much of anything. I don't know who I am

anymore, where I want to go, what I want to do.I'm just lost..

I've always felt like the real me was buried years ago before I was even

able to become an adult. I was there I remember me.a little bit anyway here

and there. I started being buried about 5 and I think I was totally under by

13 but I fought and my spirit remained for about another 3 years and they

managed to extinguish it by 16.

~~Velvet_Tears74~~

Whatever it takes.....

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of llel11

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 2:43 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: strange identity crisis

I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few

years but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist

tales from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye

contact and her look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things

that were said to me. Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I

have never done in a face to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit

unhinged. I know it sounds ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit

it but I am being flooded with memories and even though I knew there were

problems i am realizing how severely I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I

am floating in space, like, if I really was not this horrible child, and

it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who was I. and who am I. because

I really believed my father was the problem parent and had no clue that my

mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she

lied to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of

person I was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense

of it, of just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why

would she say it if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

she wants to assess me for ptsd. we were going to do it this past week but since

my nada ambushed me last week I and I have been pretty messed up this week

because of that I spent the whole freaking hour talking about that instead. but

I assume if nothing weird happens she will assess me in the last month. she says

it is not the same as a diagnosis where it would be official, it is just to

assess where i am at and give guidelines about how to figure out which coping

skills I need to improve.

I don't think your therapist will tell you you are just like her. Most bpd

people do not suspect bpd in themselves, in their mind everyone else is the

problem. So that is a good sign right there. I have not been in years and this

experience has been really good for me, to just go in there and talk. My

therapist specializes in sexual abuse trauma and she works with a lot of kids

and since I was initially so freaked out about the situation with the children

it has helped me a lot to see her, because abuse on so many levels is

contributing to my current situation. The only thing I have reservations about

with a therapist is if they are shaming. If they shame me, there is no way on

this green earth i am going to pay them to do so. So far it has been a positive

experience, so that is really good. Good luck with yours, I would suggest even

telling your therapist your fears about being found out to be 'just like' the

person that caused you so much pain. I am like both my mother and father in

certain ways and that was inevitable because they did to me what was done to

them. However, the fact that you have self-awareness to admit you might have

flaws is a good indication of a healthy mind, bpd rarely admit to being wrong

about anything. Hugs.

>

> It seems logical that you are experiencing an identity crisis as you are

discovering that most of what you built you self-identity on is false.

> Once you remove these false premises, what is left? Who exactly are you?

> I can only think this is the point at which you yourself must define who you

are, who you want to be, and then start becoming that. What will be difficult of

course, is that you won't become the new you straight away. You have spent yrs

as the old you, it will take time and effort to gravitate into the new year. It

is this interlude, the time when the old you is getting weaker, and the new you

stronger, that is difficult. You are in a grey zone, not really the old you and

not really the new you. What compounds the issue, is that most people will

continue to treat you as the old you, because that is who they know you to be.

>

> May I ask, I have just discovered that my mother has BPD, so I am still in

early stages. I am considering seeing a therapist, but to be honest, I'm scared.

> In my own mind, the worse thing I can imagine is that, after years of trying

to get away from my mother, the therapist will tell me that I am in fact, just

like her.

> But I don't think I have BPD, I think I may have PTSD. Do you mind if I ask,

did your therapist give you an actual diagnosis, a label - such as PTSD - or are

you just attending for, well, talk therapy? And how long did she indicate

therapy might go on for?

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, 17 July 2011, 17:42

> Subject: strange identity crisis

>

>

> Â

> I am wondering if anyone else has felt this after the realization about how

'off' their PD parent is. I have been here posting off and on for a few years

but I think what is different is that I have been telling my therapist tales

from my childhood, and there is something about getting the eye contact and her

look of disgust or shock, when I repeat some of the things that were said to me.

Plus having mentioned the cedar chest issue, which I have never done in a face

to face conversation with someone. I feel a bit unhinged. I know it sounds

ridiculous and I am almost embarrassed to admit it but I am being flooded with

memories and even though I knew there were problems i am realizing how severely

I was beaten down. I feel a bit like I am floating in space, like, if I really

was not this horrible child, and it's clear from therapy that I wasn't. then who

was I. and who am I. because I really believed my father was the problem parent

and had no clue that

> my mother was running such a game on me this whole time. she is so sneaky and

manipulative I just don't know who she is at all. But it's clear that she lied

to me a ridiculous amount in adolescence and beyond, about what kind of person I

was. I am really not even at the point of not trying to make sense of it, of

just giving up. I still keep catching myself saying, well why would she say it

if it wasn't true...can anyone relate?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It was an online forum like here at OZ and just other family/friends of

alcoholics participating and the problem, IMHO was that my use of the term

" functioning alcoholic " was a trigger for another forum member and they went off

on me about using it then others joined in and I just thought...Forget this, I

already have my hypersensitive nada to deal with! I don't need a " support group "

where I have to watch every thing I say every minute!

> > > >

> > > > nooooooooooo 12 step programs definitely are not for everyone, and it

appears that at least at this time and at the particular meetings you went to it

is not your cup of tea.. i would just hope that you might have been able to

'take what you like (if there was anything) and leave the rest'.. give the

meetings a chance (tried more than just one or two and that for more than one of

two times) and stood up for yourself when others may have tried to tell you what

you 'should' do, telling them to take their own 'inventories' and let you take

your own. in other words, in 12 step ideally we all work on our own issues in

our own way at our own times. Â true, these groups are far from ideal nor are

the people in them either. Â but i have found that along with the principles

(which i again applied the 'take what i like and leave the rest motto) of these

programs i found the simple getting out of my shell and meeting people there

very rewarding at times (avoiding

> > > > the toxic ones of course) and i have made friends there who have lasted

for years. Â people and the connections they can make are the bottom line for

me, showing real care and love for each other is what helps us be able to do the

growing and grieving we so desperately need to do. Â so i would say to you and

others here, give it a good chance, you may be surprised at what you can find,

tho not at every meeting nor for every person at every time. Â meetings are all

different, having different 'personalities' according to the people who happen

to be attending at a particular time. Â sorry your experiences were soooooooooo

disappointing. Â but don't give up hope .. others can be helpful if you can

persevere and find the right ones for you. Â good luck.

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Wow, what a touchy group that was! I wonder just out of curiosity's sake what

then *is* the correct term for an alcoholic who can keep their job, do well in

their job (get promotions, raises, etc.) drive very well and carefully, and yet

just stay sort of low-grade snockered constantly at home in the evenings and on

weekends? That was my dad. I think that's how he coped with staying married

to nada. Of course, he died relatively early from liver failure. But right up

until almost the end he was functioning really well and had all his marbles and

even his personality stayed intact. He was a kind person, loved intellectual

pursuits, loved helping other people and friends with projects, loved to

socialize, and was generally a good dad. If that's not a " functioning

alcoholic " , then what is the politically correct term for that; did they say?

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > > > nooooooooooo 12 step programs definitely are not for everyone, and it

appears that at least at this time and at the particular meetings you went to it

is not your cup of tea.. i would just hope that you might have been able to

'take what you like (if there was anything) and leave the rest'.. give the

meetings a chance (tried more than just one or two and that for more than one of

two times) and stood up for yourself when others may have tried to tell you what

you 'should' do, telling them to take their own 'inventories' and let you take

your own. in other words, in 12 step ideally we all work on our own issues in

our own way at our own times. Â true, these groups are far from ideal nor are

the people in them either. Â but i have found that along with the principles

(which i again applied the 'take what i like and leave the rest motto) of these

programs i found the simple getting out of my shell and meeting people there

very rewarding at times (avoiding

> > > > > the toxic ones of course) and i have made friends there who have

lasted for years. Â people and the connections they can make are the bottom line

for me, showing real care and love for each other is what helps us be able to do

the growing and grieving we so desperately need to do. Â so i would say to you

and others here, give it a good chance, you may be surprised at what you can

find, tho not at every meeting nor for every person at every time. Â meetings

are all different, having different 'personalities' according to the people who

happen to be attending at a particular time. Â sorry your experiences were

soooooooooo disappointing. Â but don't give up hope .. others can be helpful if

you can persevere and find the right ones for you. Â good luck.

> > > > >

>