Guest guest Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Helicopter Crash kills three Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon an Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base Line Road just west of Greensburg. That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville when the helicopter went down. The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, and flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who dedicated their lives to saving others. Doc, I also echo your last comment, and implore to everyone that is in our profession that they think twice when requesting air transport as many times it is chosen for convenience, and not with the pateint's best interest in mind. I have seen too many times hospitals, first responders, and ambulance services " shopping around " when one service won't fly due to weather another might, it's like playing Russian Ru let and it's just not worth the lives at risk. PS, I support the existence and usage of Air Ambulances, I however think the determination to use them should be WELL thought through. On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Bledsoe, DO wrote: > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Agreed but every time this happens or any seemingly senseless LODD in any service the emotions and passions get in the way of the science and rational thoughts. If you bring this stuff up at times like this it is akin to gas on the brush pile while trying to juggle 3 lit road flares. The time to deal with this and issues like it is not when wives and husbands are crying and kids are asking where Daddy or Mommy is. But we gotta deal with it at some point or more will be doing just that. The dead are dead the living are left to pick up the pieces and make sure no one dies a meaningless death! No one. LNM from Vienna, Austria Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T Re: Another sad day My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who dedicated their lives to saving others. Doc, I also echo your last comment, and implore to everyone that is in our profession that they think twice when requesting air transport as many times it is chosen for convenience, and not with the pateint's best interest in mind. I have seen too many times hospitals, first responders, and ambulance services " shopping around " when one service won't fly due to weather another might, it's like playing Russian Ru let and it's just not worth the lives at risk. PS, I support the existence and usage of Air Ambulances, I however think the determination to use them should be WELL thought through. On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Bledsoe, DO wrote: > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 This aircraft was not on a patient mission. they were on the way home from a fund-raising event for a local department. It was mid day with no weather. What happened to these folks remains to be seen. The wreckage indicates that it was a vertical impact. This means they came straight down. Probably some type of catastrophic mechanical failure. Why is it when you do an NTSB search you can find? 17 Ag, not EMS, helicopter crashes for 14 deaths from April-Aug 2008 and the FAA doe¢s not seem upset about that. They don¢t have NVG's, Terrain avoidance systems, TCAS. (2 Ag accidents were mid air collisions going from 1 field to another. No TCAS) There were 166 fatal accidents for 203 deaths in small 2, 4 and 6 seat airplanes from April-Aug 2008. They don¢t have all the above said equipment. > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Kenny, With due respect, this is a matter that does not need to be swept under the rug. The apologists for HEMS (and I'm not saying you are one) always come up with some reason not to discuss the obvious: HEMS is of doubtful utility in most cases, is concentrated in the wrong places, is seriously lacking in regulation, and has a risk/benefit ratio that is simply unsustainable. And with due respect to those who crew the birds, some of you are blind to the facts. I know many of you, and I have flown many helicopter missions myself, and the smart money says that HEMS is overused and under regulated. The facts are that there have been way too many HEMS crashes with way too much loss of life. And all for exactly WHAT? Facts are facts, and the facts are that you and your patients are at much greater risk than they would be on the ground, without any provable evidence that shows differences in patient outcomes as a result of HEMS transport. I can tell you book and page of flight nurses and medics who have been fired or left because they would not continue to fly with a certain pilot or continue on missions into bad weather, and so forth. I can tell you book and page about maintenance problems that were known by management and were only fixed when the crews rebelled and refused to board the bird. So, as serious as the weather is, the problems in HEMS are ultimately more serious. The hurricanes will go away in a few days. The problems in HEMS will not. I challenge the writers of negative comments to Dr. Bledsoe to tell me ONE flight they made that saved a life when nothing else would have. I challenge you to prove that HEMS improves patient outcomes. Yes, there are times when HEMS is convenient. There are times when it is appropriate. But it is not appropriate, as one of my friends related yesterday on another list, to fly a patient with an overdose 40 miles to a tertiary care hospital in the middle of the night when the freeways were empty. It is neither cost effective nor beneficial to the patient. We can no longer ignore the problems in the HEMS industry. The lack of official oversight is nothing short of scandalous. The FAA cannot be both a mentor and a regulator as it is currently tasked to be. We all know that certain measures will improve HEMS: dual pilots, 100% IFR qualifications and instrumentation, more stringent inspections, stricter weather guidelines, and so forth. Yet the industry fights against such improvements, and why would it not? For example, why would a company that flies Bell 206A ships with only VFR capabilities want to agree to changes that would possibly put it out of business? Ah, business. That's what it's all about, isn't it. HEMS is not about patient care, patient outcomes, or improvement in EMS. Nope. It's about business. And whose interests are served by the policies that denigrate better practices and regulations? You got it. The SUITS who own and profit from the business. For you flight medics and nurses, that may come as a surprise to those of you who are not as old and cynical as I am. You probably are very proud of your capabilities and accomplishments and the patient care you give, and you should be. Some of you are the cream of the crop. Why is it that most of the " cream of the crop " medics and nurses I know are no longer flying? There is a saying: " There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. " HEMS is a bold industry. Perhaps it's too bold for its own good. I remember when I was a gung ho HEMS proponent. I was convinced that rotor wash and diesel fumes were the magic potion that made patients better. I have now learned better, as I trust that most of you who are so incensed by 's comments eventually will also. If you live. And I hope you will. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > There is seriously bad weather out there that will consume the attention of > a lot of us over the next few days. Can we focus on that and save this for > afterward? > > KS > > > > RE: Another sad day > > How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible > for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need > to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse > to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you > are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to > accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out > people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. > > EMT-P > > To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasems-l@ <mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > <mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > : charles_chennault@charles_chennau < > mailto:charles_mailto:chamailto:chamailto:> > <mailto:charles_mailto:chamailto:chamailto:> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 > > Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and > theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how > tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this > message have been removed] > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _ > Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. > http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt > < > http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt> > oo_082008 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Ag flights are primarily one pilot and the risks are known. They fly at altitudes of less than 50 meters. Ag pilots with NVGs and TAWS--are you nuts? HEMS is Part 135 (Unscheduled air taxi) and thus held to a higher standard (as are airlines). The ag pilot knows and accepts the risks. The HEMS patient does not know the risks (and neither do most HEMS crewmembers). Your argument is a non-sequiter. Twenty dead and eight injured in HEMS in 2008 and the year is only 2/3 over. This crash occurred leaving a fundraiser. The last crash by this operator occurred looking for a missing hunter. In a dangerous endeavor, try and keep the risks minimized. Several years ago here in Texas they used a medical helicopter to try and dry a football field before a big game. At least we know that ag sprayers help ag output. The benefits of HEMS are questionable at best. When one HEMS operator has had 17 NTSB reportable events/crashes then questions should be raised. To try and deflect the criticism of HEMS on ag aviation is a joke. Why not compare it to ultralight aircraft, bullfighting, or unprotected sex? These too have risks. Re: Another sad day This aircraft was not on a patient mission. they were on the way home from a fund-raising event for a local department. It was mid day with no weather. What happened to these folks remains to be seen. The wreckage indicates that it was a vertical impact. This means they came straight down. Probably some type of catastrophic mechanical failure. Why is it when you do an NTSB search you can find? 17 Ag, not EMS, helicopter crashes for 14 deaths from April-Aug 2008 and the FAA doe¢s not seem upset about that. They don¢t have NVG's, Terrain avoidance systems, TCAS. (2 Ag accidents were mid air collisions going from 1 field to another. No TCAS) There were 166 fatal accidents for 203 deaths in small 2, 4 and 6 seat airplanes from April-Aug 2008. They don¢t have all the above said equipment. > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 No problem. GG > > > Gene, I totally agree with you. As a Paramedic for the last 22 years and an > old guy on top of that...HEMS needs major work. Kinda like NDMS....but I > digress. My point is simply this....let' Gene, I totally agree with you. As a > Paramedic for the last 22 years and an old guy on top of that...HEMS needs major > work. Kinda Gene, I totally agree with you. As a Paramedic for the last 22 > years and an old guy on top of that...HEMS needs major work. Kinda like > NDMS....but I digress. My point is simpl > > > RE: Another sad day > > > > How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible > > for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel > need > > to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still > refuse > > to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you > > are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose > to > > accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with > out > > people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. > > > > EMT-P > > > > To: texasems-l@yahoogro To: texa To< > mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > > <mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > > : charles_chennault@ : charles_chenn< > > mailto:charles_ mailto:charles_ mailto:cha> > > <mailto:charles_mailto:charles_mailto:char> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 > > > > Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and > > theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and > how > > tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this > > message have been removed] > > > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _ > > Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. > > > http://www.windowslhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://w < > http://www.windowslhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://w> > > < > > > http://www.windowslhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://w < > http://www.windowslhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://w> > > > oo_082008 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 I think your dislike for the HEMS industry is so deep it would not matter what was said or done, your opinion would not change. I think you missed the point I was attempting to make. It is more than just AG, there have been multiple news, police and civilian helicopter crashes but all you hear about is HEMS. Then people like you jump on the band wagon to throw your two cents in when you have absolutely nothing do with it. I am very tired of reading what you write on this board trashing the hard work that I and many others like me put in to make it a safe and professional department. I know you are going to come back at me with your 100 dollar words and try to turn it on me but I am feed up with it. With that being said, I do agree with you about the standards of safety needing to be raised across the board. If HEMS providers are not willing to comply then they should not be allowed to operate. I do not believe you are an expert in the field but you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else on this site > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Jeff -- Who do you believe is an expert, then? And I'd challenge you to find where Dr. Bledsoe has ever trashed the work of flight paramedics and nurses. I believe he has aimed his (justifiable) rhetorical fire at the flight services themselves and the system. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic -Austin, Texas RE: Another sad day I think your dislike for the HEMS industry is so deep it would not matter what was said or done, your opinion would not change. I think you missed the point I was attempting to make. It is more than just AG, there have been multiple news, police and civilian helicopter crashes but all you hear about is HEMS. Then people like you jump on the band wagon to throw your two cents in when you have absolutely nothing do with it. I am very tired of reading what you write on this board trashing the hard work that I and many others like me put in to make it a safe and professional department. I know you are going to come back at me with your 100 dollar words and try to turn it on me but I am feed up with it. With that being said, I do agree with you about the standards of safety needing to be raised across the board. If HEMS providers are not willing to comply then they should not be allowed to operate. I do not believe you are an expert in the field but you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else on this site > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just af ter 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Wes~ Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and the knowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how to make operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 “With that being said, I do agree with you about the standards of safety needing to be raised across the board. If HEMS providers are not willing to comply then they should not be allowed to operate.” Then we agree. By the way, I was a flight medic and a HEMS medical director. In fact, I was the first employee hired by CareFlite in 1979. The HEMS crews are not to blame. They are victims of an untenable situation (less costly word—between a rock and a hard place). I have limited my comments to the safety issue. I posted the following on Flightweb last month after the Flagstaff crashes: My hat is off to all who toil in medical helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. The last 2 weeks have been an uncomfortable time to be a pilot, flight medic, or flight nurse. I have been interviewed a great deal and I have hammered the helicopter EMS industry. I have been very careful to point out that I highly respect the crews and pilots. But, those words always get edited out. Kind words do not bring television viewers or newspaper readers. Only harsh criticism does. I received over 200 emails and calls from around the world after the series of interviews following the Flagstaff crashes. Many were from flight paramedics and nurses. EVERY EMAIL AND CALL I RECEIVED FROM MEMBERS OF THE AIR MEDICAL COMMUNITY WAS RESPECTFUL, KIND, SUPPORTIVE, AND INFORMATIVE. Many apologized about how the HEMS had treated me in the past on Flightweb. One nurse personally apologized for an email she sent a year ago accusing me of being a " helicopter hater " . Now, a year later, she sees where I was coming from. This speaks well of you. The collective of you--medical providers who fly--have risen above the industry mantra. The risks are real. The patients are less sick. Money is the master. Things are horrible. The media is on you. Yet, your mouthpieces talk about lives saved, the need for more helicopters, and that the safety record is not so bad when you consider the lives saved. I have had 5 phone calls from trauma surgeons (2 I knew) each echoing the same story--they could count on one hand the number of patients they felt benefitted from HEMS transport. Safety changes have to go beyond NTSA. We must consider: 1. Dual pilots 2. Full IFR capabilities 3. Larger aircraft with twin engine and system redundancy, 4. NVGs (the AMPA paper is very compelling). 5. Adherence to Part 135 at all times. 6. TAWS 7. Employer supplied helmets and suits. 8. Mandatory rest periods for flight crews along the same lines as for pilots 9. Centralized EMS (non-proprietary) dispatch. 10. Subscriptions must stop. What does this mean? 1. More than half the fleet must go away. Those that remain must make a commitment to safety by adding the needed equipment and rules. All should be operated as a part of a regional EMS system--not like the wrecker industry. 2. Half the current number of flight personnel will lose jobs. Sorry. 3. The more qualified members of the HEMS crew (medics, nurses, pilots) will rise to the top and take the jobs that are open in the new industry. The quality of care will return to what it used to be. I do believe there is a subset of patients who can benefit from HEMS. We need to figure this out and revise criteria. There is no move to revise current criteria because doing so might cut a few flights. Losing a few flights might hurt the stock value. But, cutting nonessential flights might also save lives. Be verbal. Speak up. Don't walk away unless the safety issues are dangerous. One of three things will happen: 1) The FAA will step in. 2) Congress will step in. 3) Insurance companies will stop paying--no bucks--no Buck . The latter is most likely. We Americans think we are the center of the universe. Does any other first world country boast 750-1,000 medical helicopters? I have met with HEMS officials in New Zealand and Australia where the strategy was to " avoid the Yanks problems " by setting up protocols and barriers to minimize helicopter usage. If we are the only first world country doing anything in medicine, it should give us pause and make us reevaluate the system. Thanks for the emails and kind thoughts. We are on the same team. My respect for you guys (and women) continues to climb. From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of JEFF COBB Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:12 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Another sad day I think your dislike for the HEMS industry is so deep it would not matter what was said or done, your opinion would not change. I think you missed the point I was attempting to make. It is more than just AG, there have been multiple news, police and civilian helicopter crashes but all you hear about is HEMS. Then people like you jump on the band wagon to throw your two cents in when you have absolutely nothing do with it. I am very tired of reading what you write on this board trashing the hard work that I and many others like me put in to make it a safe and professional department. I know you are going to come back at me with your 100 dollar words and try to turn it on me but I am feed up with it. With that being said, I do agree with you about the standards of safety needing to be raised across the board. If HEMS providers are not willing to comply then they should not be allowed to operate. I do not believe you are an expert in the field but you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else on this site > Helicopter Crash kills three > > Posted: Aug 31, 2008 04:47 PM CDT > > DECATUR COUNTY, Ind (WTHI) - Officials say just after 1:30 this afternoon > an > Air Evac helicopter crashed in a field near County Road 700 West and Base > Line Road just west of Greensburg. > > That's about 50 miles Southeast of Indianapolis. > > News 10 is told a pilot and two nurses were traveling back to Rushville > when > the helicopter went down. > > The victims include the pilot Warren, flight nurse Pearson, > and > flight paramedic and base manager Wade Weston. > > No patients were on board. News 10 has learned that all Indiana Air Evac > Lifeteam units are grounded until further notice. > > It's not known what caused the chopper to go down. We'll have more on this > accident tonight on News 10 Nightwatch. > > 2008 will be 2/3 over at midnight tonight. Thus far, 20 dead and 8 injured > in 12 medical helicopter crashes this year. When will the carnage stop? > Every time you call one of these helicopters please consider whether the > patient will benefit to a degree that justifies the risk these flight crews > take. When it is all saidand done, few patient benegit. Soon, they will not > be able to pay anybody enough to work in HEMS in the United States. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@...: charles_chennault@...: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_0\ 82008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 I did not ask for media attention. I published two papers in the Journal of Trauma on HEMS and now as soon as a medical helicopter crashes, the media calls. I think I have a duty to speak out. I am very careful to assure that I speak only the facts. I maintain an extensive library of HEMS studies and NTSB reports. The larger media outlets (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, NBC) always follow an interview with fact checking. For every query I submit the necessary documentation. Otherwise, they would pull the quote if it were incorrect. Most importantly, I have known at least 6 of those killed in the last 2-3 years. Blast me all you want. It is to be expected. From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Vondran Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@... <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : charles_chennault@... <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 There is seriously bad weather out there that will consume the attention of a lot of us over the next few days. Can we focus on that and save this for afterward? KS RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@... <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : charles_chennault@... <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah <http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah> oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 We need the rain. From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Shaw, Kenny Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:55 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Another sad day There is seriously bad weather out there that will consume the attention of a lot of us over the next few days. Can we focus on that and save this for afterward? KS RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@... <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : charles_chennault@... <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah <http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah> oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Gene, I totally agree with you. As a Paramedic for the last 22 years and an old guy on top of that...HEMS needs major work. Kinda like NDMS....but I digress. My point is simply this....let's get past the pending weather issues and not fill our email boxes with this right now....so we can focus on the current emergency....and then we can come back to this. If ya'll (that's Arkansas for youse guys) disagree then go ahead, I'll click and delete stuff but I'd rather pay attention to it! G'night! RE: Another sad day > > How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible > for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need > to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse > to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you > are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to > accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out > people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. > > EMT-P > > To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasems-l@ <mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > <mailto:texasems-mailto:texasems-mailto:> > : charles_chennault@charles_chennau < > mailto:charles_mailto:chamailto:chamailto:> > <mailto:charles_mailto:chamailto:chamailto:> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 > > Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and > theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how > tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this > message have been removed] > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _ > Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. > http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt <http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt> > < > http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt <http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt> > > oo_082008 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Spoken like a typical Texan! I'm betting your place is lush and crawling for later this month! LNM from London, UK Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@... <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : charles_chennault@... <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:charles_chennault%40hotmail.comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah <http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yah> oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 The Part 135 industry is already highly regulated. You can't solve things by regulation if the regulations aren't adhered to, though. Departures from the regulations - either due to inattention on the part of the aircrew, deliberate deviation by management, or lack of inspectors will and do lead to accidents. There will always be pressure to go. The " hero " aspect is pervasive throughout the community. Face it, most people get into EMS because they want to help others. You want to make HEMS safer? Mandate two pilot IFR capable crews, require flight directors (spelled auto pilots), NVGs, and pre-surveyed LZs. Kirk EMT-B In a message dated 9/2/2008 09:05:46 Central Daylight Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: Jeff -- Which flight programs are you referring to?? There's a wide variety of flight programs out there. There are some where the flight program buys new helicopters and maintains them themselves (such as STAR Flight) and some that lease used helicopters and outsource pilots and maintenance staff. To me, there are a few patients who benefit from helicopter EMS, especially in rural areas.? Stroke and STEMI come to mind. Unfortunately, too many of the larger flight services have spent more on marketing than on safety.? That's how/why some (NOT ALL) flight services sell subscriptions to the general public, telling them to call their 800 number rather than 911 and then throw pizza parties for volunteer fire departments where the first responders are trained to call for a helicopter based on dubious " mechanism of injury " criteria. I don't think that Dr. Bledsoe has ever advocated eliminating helicopter EMS.? What I personally favor is establishing some regulation and safety parameters for helicopter EMS.? Currently, flight services sometimes have more in common with the?bad old days of " Mother, Juggs, and Speed " than they do with modern EMS, save for some of their clinical interventions. I do see a huge need for critical care services, especially in rural areas.? And there are most assuredly cases where the speed of a helicopter may make a difference (again, thinking of STEMI and CVA, not necessarily trauma).? However, there's a glut of helicopter services and a dearth of ground-based critical care. What say you? -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic -Austin, Texas RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Dr. Bledsoe, I do not doubt that you have tons of info on the subject. We all know studies are swayed to say what the author wants them to say. My point is this, to make a stereo type of all HEMS providers as being unsafe, not willing to spend the money on modern technology, and flying in bad weather as a standard is wrong. That is no different than some racist saying all black people are crack heads. Believe it or not, there are programs out there that have done everything possible to prevent such accidents and have been successful. I invite you to come and see for yourself. Then maybe you will be a bit more specific when you start hacking on HEMS in general and target those that need to be targeted. Subject: RE: Another sad day To: texasems-l Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 10:45 PM I did not ask for media attention. I published two papers in the Journal of Trauma on HEMS and now as soon as a medical helicopter crashes, the media calls. I think I have a duty to speak out. I am very careful to assure that I speak only the facts. I maintain an extensive library of HEMS studies and NTSB reports. The larger media outlets (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, NBC) always follow an interview with fact checking. For every query I submit the necessary documentation. Otherwise, they would pull the quote if it were incorrect. Most importantly, I have known at least 6 of those killed in the last 2-3 years. Blast me all you want. It is to be expected. From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vondran Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Jeff -- Which flight programs are you referring to?? There's a wide variety of flight programs out there. There are some where the flight program buys new helicopters and maintains them themselves (such as STAR Flight) and some that lease used helicopters and outsource pilots and maintenance staff. To me, there are a few patients who benefit from helicopter EMS, especially in rural areas.? Stroke and STEMI come to mind. Unfortunately, too many of the larger flight services have spent more on marketing than on safety.? That's how/why some (NOT ALL) flight services sell subscriptions to the general public, telling them to call their 800 number rather than 911 and then throw pizza parties for volunteer fire departments where the first responders are trained to call for a helicopter based on dubious " mechanism of injury " criteria. I don't think that Dr. Bledsoe has ever advocated eliminating helicopter EMS.? What I personally favor is establishing some regulation and safety parameters for helicopter EMS.? Currently, flight services sometimes have more in common with the?bad old days of " Mother, Juggs, and Speed " than they do with modern EMS, save for some of their clinical interventions. I do see a huge need for critical care services, especially in rural areas.? And there are most assuredly cases where the speed of a helicopter may make a difference (again, thinking of STEMI and CVA, not necessarily trauma).? However, there's a glut of helicopter services and a dearth of ground-based critical care. What say you? -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic -Austin, Texas RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I will agree with the majority of your statment. If you do the reasearch, you will notice that it is a small minority of services out there that keep having the issues over and over. Star Flight is a fantastic service and holds a high standard. Do the research on Texas alone and tell me what you find. From: Bledsoe, DO <bbledsoe (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Subject: RE: Another sad day To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 10:45 PM I did not ask for media attention. I published two papers in the Journal of Trauma on HEMS and now as soon as a medical helicopter crashes, the media calls. I think I have a duty to speak out. I am very careful to assure that I speak only the facts. I maintain an extensive library of HEMS studies and NTSB reports. The larger media outlets (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, NBC) always follow an interview with fact checking. For every query I submit the necessary documentation. Otherwise, they would pull the quote if it were incorrect. Most importantly, I have known at least 6 of those killed in the last 2-3 years. Blast me all you want. It is to be expected. From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems- l@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vondran Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I would not call it hero syndrome. There are programs in this state that teeter on call volume or lack of. They send the med crews out to services and tell the to please call them for anything because the volume is low and they are going to be closed down by their company. These are the same people that hire staff not because they are qualified and great at what they do. They will hire them because their spouse is the chief of an agency or because of where they work in attempt to gain calls. What you need is reimbursement reform. I promise you that when these people are not getting paid anymore for the unnecessary flights they are generating, they will close the doors quick fast and in a hurry because money is why they are here NOT to help people. Most of the med crews are there with good intentions but pressured by the company. As far a dual pilots, not going to happen. There are numerous designated LZ's in my area is a great idea but that can't always happen. Measures have to be in place to help get in and out of LZs with no problem. Single pilot IFR, NVG's, TCAS, TWAS, Twin Engines absolutely should be the standard. What you face with that is double the operating cost. Twice a much fuel, maintenance, pilot salary is increased ect ect ect. The operations that i speak not only refuse to do it, they have lobbyist fighting it. From: Bledsoe, DO <bbledsoe (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Subject: RE: Another sad day To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 10:45 PM I did not ask for media attention. I published two papers in the Journal of Trauma on HEMS and now as soon as a medical helicopter crashes, the media calls. I think I have a duty to speak out. I am very careful to assure that I speak only the facts. I maintain an extensive library of HEMS studies and NTSB reports. The larger media outlets (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, NBC) always follow an interview with fact checking. For every query I submit the necessary documentation. Otherwise, they would pull the quote if it were incorrect. Most importantly, I have known at least 6 of those killed in the last 2-3 years. Blast me all you want. It is to be expected. From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems- l@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vondran Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 There are definitely several services with stellar reputations.? There are also several services that have a variety of issues relating to their safety records and marketing practices. How do we, as EMS, ensure that the standards are set high enough to protect the public, but also don't create artificial barriers to competition? -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP -Attorney/Licensed Paramedic -Austin, Texas RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Look at the services that meet your expectations as far as safety and patient care. If a HEMS company wants to operate in your area, they should meet those expectations or do not call them. There is no rule that says you have to call them. If they cry about you bypassing them, simply advise them that safety and patient care is the issue and what your standards are. They can either comply or go Way. I guarantee they will go away because profit is their bottom line. From: Bledsoe, DO <bbledsoe@earthlink . net> Subject: RE: Another sad day To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 10:45 PM I did not ask for media attention. I published two papers in the Journal of Trauma on HEMS and now as soon as a medical helicopter crashes, the media calls. I think I have a duty to speak out. I am very careful to assure that I speak only the facts. I maintain an extensive library of HEMS studies and NTSB reports. The larger media outlets (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, NBC) always follow an interview with fact checking. For every query I submit the necessary documentation. Otherwise, they would pull the quote if it were incorrect. Most importantly, I have known at least 6 of those killed in the last 2-3 years. Blast me all you want. It is to be expected. From: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:texasems- l@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Vondran Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:37 PM To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: Another sad day How is that any different than a ground ambulance crew who is responsible for making sure their truck is ready to go every shift? HEMS personnel need to have a voice in the media and government. Unfortunately some still refuse to support the few people who have chosen to be that voice. In the end you are ultimately the only one responsible for your own life. If you choose to accept that risk that is fine, but why can't the risks be minimized with out people accusing those doing something of hurting HEMS personnel. EMT-P To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.comFrom <mailto:texasems- l%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : charles_chennault@ hotmail.comDate <mailto:charles_ chennault% 40hotmail. comDate> : Mon, 1 Sep 2008 Wes~Jeff has a point Dr. B has done nothing but trash about the HEMS and theknowledge the crew has about their aircraft and the operation of and how tomake operations safe. Just my 2 cents worth.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowsl ive.com/explore/ messenger? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ messenger_ yah oo_082008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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