Re: raw meat/organs

[Guest guest]

> i'm going to ask this again, for those of you who consume raw

meat/organs,

> do you freeze it for 2 weeks as suggested in NT? NT's source is the

> USDA...who apparently says the 2 week freezing will kill any

parasites.

>

> i'm eager to have some of my recently purchased bison kidney today,

but am

> vascillating on whether i should freeze it for a longer period

first. i

> think the animal was slaughtered earlier this week.

>

> any suggestions?

Hi Suze,

I was waiting for an NTer to respond, but since you asked again: as a

RAFer, I never freeze meat or organs. I regularly eat raw bison chuck

roast, liver, and heart. I have eaten kidney, pancreas, and thyroid

as well. I cannot speak to the danger of parasites/bacteria; I can

say I've been eating unfrozen raw meat/organs for nine months now with

no regret (and my diet is exclusively raw). As for freshness, It is

probably wise to eat the organs as quickly as possible if not

freezing, since they are much higher in PUFA's and therefore more

prone to rancidity. The freezing Sally recommends may possibly kill

parasites but not bacteria. It may be that e. coli will multiply

faster on thawed raw meat than on not previously frozen raw meat

(Aajonus Vonderplantitz in " We Want to Live " ), so you may want to

consume thawed meat very soon after thawing.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

>

> > i'm going to ask this again, for those of you who

> consume raw

> meat/organs,

> > do you freeze it for 2 weeks as suggested in NT?

> NT's source is the

> > USDA...who apparently says the 2 week freezing

> will kill any

> parasites.

> >

> > i'm eager to have some of my recently purchased

> bison kidney today,

> but am

> > vascillating on whether i should freeze it for a

> longer period

> first. i

> > think the animal was slaughtered earlier this

> week.

> >

> > any suggestions?

I plucked the following (it was said as coming from

AV): " Frozen meat does not have healing or

regenerative support for the body, and contains for

byproducts. "

I really hope this is wrong because it's much easier

to obtain frozen good meats than fresh. I can get a

much better price when I buy a lot of frozen meat than

a couple of pounds of fresh.

Roman

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--snip--

> I plucked the following (it was said as coming from

> AV): " Frozen meat does not have healing or

> regenerative support for the body, and contains for

> byproducts. "

>

> I really hope this is wrong because it's much easier

> to obtain frozen good meats than fresh. I can get a

> much better price when I buy a lot of frozen meat than

> a couple of pounds of fresh.

>

> Roman

Hi Roman,

How much can you eat in a month? I order about 20 lbs of bison in a

month, unfrozen in cryovac bags. It keeps just fine until I finish it

in a month. I've seen some on Live-food say it can last much longer

(up to 6 months).

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

--- sraosha87 <sraosha@...> wrote:

> Hi Roman,

>

> How much can you eat in a month? I order about 20

> lbs of bison in a

> month, unfrozen in cryovac bags. It keeps just fine

> until I finish it

> in a month. I've seen some on Live-food say it can

> last much longer

> (up to 6 months).

,

Do you keep it all in the fridge? Whenever I buy meat

in a local store, it always develops unpleasant smell

if it stays they for no more than a couple of weeks.

Last time I bought some lamb, it aleady had the smell.

But I ate it anyway; not sure if it's always a good

idea.

Roman

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> > Hi Roman,

> >

> > How much can you eat in a month? I order about 20

> > lbs of bison in a

> > month, unfrozen in cryovac bags. It keeps just fine

> > until I finish it

> > in a month. I've seen some on Live-food say it can

> > last much longer

> > (up to 6 months).

>

> ,

>

> Do you keep it all in the fridge? Whenever I buy meat

> in a local store, it always develops unpleasant smell

> if it stays they for no more than a couple of weeks.

> Last time I bought some lamb, it aleady had the smell.

> But I ate it anyway; not sure if it's always a good

> idea.

>

> Roman

Yes, I keep it in the fridge. When I open a 3 lb cryovac bag, I cut

the meat such that it will fit in a canning jar, and fill to the top.

The meat will not spoil if there is no/little air. Once the oxygen

is used up, the meat stops breaking down (bacteria go dormant) until

more air is introduced. The cryovac bags are not nearly as porous as

most plastic bags/wrap, which will continue to let air in and allow

bacteria to grow. If you get a lot of meat from the store, pack it in

several jars, and open one by one as needed. Also, grain fed

beef/lamb tends to spoil less " elegantly " sometimes growing mold. Try

to stick to grass fed if possible. I eat " spoiled " meat in small

quantities routinely for the beneficial bacteria (like eating cultured

dairy). For building your body, though, fresh or minimally aged is

best.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

>>>>Hi Suze,

I was waiting for an NTer to respond, but since you asked again: as a

RAFer, I never freeze meat or organs. I regularly eat raw bison chuck

roast, liver, and heart. I have eaten kidney, pancreas, and thyroid

as well.

*******do you get your bison from Northstar, daniel?

>>>>>I cannot speak to the danger of parasites/bacteria; I can

say I've been eating unfrozen raw meat/organs for nine months now with

no regret (and my diet is exclusively raw).

*****well thanks for the feedback on this. i'm now having some raw thymus

from a northstar bison that was killed last week. it was probably frozen a

total of 3 days or something like that. i guess i'll know soon enough if it

causes me any problems. i just put about an oz. or so in my shake. just

taking it slowly.

>>>>As for freshness, It is

probably wise to eat the organs as quickly as possible if not

freezing, since they are much higher in PUFA's and therefore more

prone to rancidity.

****the only ones that are *high* in PUFAs that i'm aware of are brain,

eyes, adrenal and testes. and i'm not eating any of those. the digestive and

internal organs, i believe, are more concentrated in saturated fat. at least

the fat depots surrounding these organs are more saturated.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> >>>>Hi Suze,

>

> I was waiting for an NTer to respond, but since you asked again: as

a

> RAFer, I never freeze meat or organs. I regularly eat raw bison

chuck

> roast, liver, and heart. I have eaten kidney, pancreas, and thyroid

> as well.

>

> *******do you get your bison from Northstar, daniel?

Yes. I get it shipped unfrozen, arrives in two days.

>

>

> >>>>>I cannot speak to the danger of parasites/bacteria; I can

> say I've been eating unfrozen raw meat/organs for nine months now

with

> no regret (and my diet is exclusively raw).

--snip--

>

> >>>>As for freshness, It is

> probably wise to eat the organs as quickly as possible if not

> freezing, since they are much higher in PUFA's and therefore more

> prone to rancidity.

>

> ****the only ones that are *high* in PUFAs that i'm aware of are

brain,

> eyes, adrenal and testes. and i'm not eating any of those. the

digestive and

> internal organs, i believe, are more concentrated in saturated fat.

at least

> the fat depots surrounding these organs are more saturated.

It isn't the depot fat I'm referring to, but the fat making up the

cell membranes.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

sraosha87 wrote:

> Yes, I keep it in the fridge. When I open a 3 lb cryovac bag, I cut

> the meat such that it will fit in a canning jar, and fill to the top.

> The meat will not spoil if there is no/little air. Once the oxygen

> is used up, the meat stops breaking down (bacteria go dormant) until

> more air is introduced.

I once searched for information on botulism and came across information about

some natives going " modern " . They fermented fish as their ancestors did, but

they used modern tools. Instead of putting fish under the ground, they

wrapped it in plastic. According to the article I read, that (due to lack of

oxygen) promotes growth of botulism toxin producing bacteria. That technique

has caused deaths. I wonder if it can happen to meat as well, if you deprive

it oxygen.

Roman

[Guest guest]

>

> > Yes, I keep it in the fridge. When I open a 3 lb cryovac bag, I

cut

> > the meat such that it will fit in a canning jar, and fill to the

top.

> > The meat will not spoil if there is no/little air. Once the

oxygen

> > is used up, the meat stops breaking down (bacteria go dormant)

until

> > more air is introduced.

>

> I once searched for information on botulism and came across

information about

> some natives going " modern " . They fermented fish as their ancestors

did, but

> they used modern tools. Instead of putting fish under the ground,

they

> wrapped it in plastic. According to the article I read, that (due to

lack of

> oxygen) promotes growth of botulism toxin producing bacteria. That

technique

> has caused deaths. I wonder if it can happen to meat as well, if you

deprive

> it oxygen.

>

> Roman

There was a discussion about that on live-food. I don't remember the

conclusion except that I think botulism poisoning was presumed and not

actually diagnosed. At low temps (fridge) the anaerobes that might

grow are not Clostridium botulinum. Food poisoning from botulism

typically comes from unrefridgerated home canned foods that are low

acid.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

At 02:56 PM 5/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>I once searched for information on botulism and came across information about

>some natives going " modern " . They fermented fish as their ancestors did, but

>they used modern tools. Instead of putting fish under the ground, they

>wrapped it in plastic. According to the article I read, that (due to lack of

>oxygen) promotes growth of botulism toxin producing bacteria. That technique

>has caused deaths. I wonder if it can happen to meat as well, if you deprive

>it oxygen.

>

>Roman

There have been a number of reports of people dying from fermented fish

(one reason I don't try it). I think there is another factor too: the

bacteria that ferment cabbage are basically the ones in DIRT -- cabbage is

close to the ground and has plenty of dirt bacteria. So when you put a

cabbage in a sealed jar, there is always enough bacteria to overwhelm the

botulism bacteria. Plus it seems cabbage has some natural nitrates. (I

couldn't find ANY cases of botulism from kimchi!).

A fish swimming in salt water wouldn't probably have dirt bacteria on it,

unless you were a native and working on the fish outside sitting on a rock

then burying it in the ground. In a nice modern kitchen it would be a nice

clean fish with hardly any dirt bacteria. Almost all the botulism cases I

read about are from food that has MOST of the germs killed and is not

acidic. Botulism seems to be very sensitive to competition, esp.

competition from acid-forming bacteria.

Now cows ... how much natural bacteria does cow meat have? I'd guess living

out on grass they'd have SOME dirt bacteria. Or maybe their flesh is more acid.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

> >

> > > Yes, I keep it in the fridge. When I open a 3 lb cryovac bag, I

> cut

> > > the meat such that it will fit in a canning jar, and fill to the

> top.

> > > The meat will not spoil if there is no/little air. Once the

> oxygen

> > > is used up, the meat stops breaking down (bacteria go dormant)

> until

> > > more air is introduced.

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Have you ever heard of anyone filling the raw meat

cryovac bag with whey? I haven't either but you'd be displacing the

oxygen with non-pathogenic microorganisms. It might be a more

controlled environment than waiting for the bag to become anaerobic

and it might kill/limit pathogenic growth if present. I think I'll

try it next time I refrigerate raw liver, if I ever try it again!

Dennis