Need help with the anger.

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and thought I

would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with my Mom.

Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than likely

has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have for her. I

feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with hurting me

and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I should not

feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I wouldn't be this

angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some ways you

guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to just cut

her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable because

she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just isn't the

right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

Thank you in advance.

[Guest guest]

Oh it is absolutely reasonable, so don't discount that.

Many of us here are lc (low contact) and NC (no contact).

I am LC with my narcassist father, who is married to a BPD woman (no contact

with her...great taste in women he has), and my mother is a whackjob with BPD

that borders on borderline szchitophrenia. I've been NC with her since 2006.

What helped me with the anger, is reading, therapy and lots of introspection.

When you realize that these people simply operate on another planet altogether,

you start to reason it out a bit.

For me it took a very very long time to get past the whole " how could you have

tried to kill your own daughter, how could you have DONE those things?? " .

Occasionally I will dwell on it, but those instances are becoming less and less

as I become more self aware, develop self esteem and realize that I am living a

happy and healthy life. You also quickly realize that cutting out the toxicity

in your life is the healthy thing to do.

Groups like this help. Connecting with others who have had the same things

happen, and we discover that we all have the same sorts of " fleas " (reactions to

situations or the way we react to various situations), it becomes easier to

manage.

Its a long journey, but the important thing is that you are realizing that you

are not crazy, evil or horrible like you've been made to feel all your life.

And guess what, you ARE entitled to be angry, pissed off and generally mean to

this person who has stolen your childhood, made you feel less than human and who

has screwed up your perception of yourself for your own selfish needs.

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and thought

I

> would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with my Mom.

> Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than likely

> has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have for her.

I

> feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with hurting

me

> and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I should not

> feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I wouldn't be

this

> angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some ways you

> guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to just cut

> her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable because

> she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just isn't the

> right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You have every reason to feel angry and all the other emotions you are feeling.

Perhaps you feel guilty because we as KO are conditioned not to show (and thus

experience) our emotions. And I think people can get angry at cancer patients

too. People are people. So please do cut yourself some slack for 1.

experiencing the emotions and 2. beating yourself up for experiencing the

emotions.

My own process of discovery is relatively recent and was compounded by the fact

that it coincided with the death of mother after a 9 year illness. All I can

say is I am still experiencing a subcutaneous tidal wave of emotions, very much

related to shock and trauma, and that initially was dominated by anger, and now

involves a lot of grief, for me, thank god, and bits for my mother too, but

honestly I try not to spend too much time on her as I've already spent far too

much. I'm sure later when I've had more me time I'll be able to be more

sanguine about the whole unbelievable situation.

The thing about N's i notice when reading your note, is the overuse of the

possessive pronouns when referring to people ie you have HER granddaughters.

For me a simple way to approach the problem is through the buddhist idea of

attachments the possessive pronouns reveal the nature of the N attachment. IE

all roads lead back to Rome. Those girls are not HER granddaughters, they are

humans in your stewardship and belong to no one but themselves. just my opinion

of course. I have plenty!

I'm glad you are in therapy, and I think that if you trust in yourself and allow

yourself to go with how you are feeling that you will eventually come out to a

better place. (that is what i am counting on for myself!)

Best,

SR

[Guest guest]

,

First, stop trying to tell yourself that your feelings aren't

reasonable. Feeling anger, hurt, and betrayal is a normal

reaction to abuse, and make no mistake about it, the way a

parent with BPD treats their children is abuse of one sort or

another. If you've been treated in ways similar to most of us,

you have plenty of good reason to want to cut her off and have

nothing to do with her. Being your mother doesn't give her a

free pass to abuse you as much as she likes. It gives her even

less of a pass to treat her grand daughters the same way. Being

" sick " doesn't give her a free pass to be abusive either. Trying

to compare your reaction to her having BPD to what your reaction

would be if she had cancer is comparing apples and oranges.

Having cancer wouldn't have caused her to be emotionally (and

possibly physically) abusive throughout your life. Cancer is a

physical illness that kills numerous people or disrupts their

lives considerably if it doesn't kill them. BPD is a mental

illness that causes people to treat the ones they should care

most about abusively. Nobody asks to have either type of

illness, but people who have cancer generally seek a cure.

People with BPD generally resist treatment because they don't

believe there is anything wrong with them.

Anger is not necessarily a bad emotion to have. It can fuel

making changes. Or it can eat you up inside. What you do with it

determines that. Try channeling your anger into learning how to

deal with BPD and making changes in your life to protect

yourself and your daughters from being affected by it. You can't

change her, but you can change how you react to her. You don't

have to just take whatever she dishes out in your direction. You

can decide what you will and won't put up with from her. You can

decide how much or how little contact to have with her. Let some

of your anger keep you determined to stand by whatever decisions

you make to protect yourself. If you decide it isn't safe for

you to have contact with her at all, that's a reasonable choice.

You mention having daughters, although you don't say how old

they are. One thing that may help you put things in perspective

is to remember that a mother's main duty is to protect her

children and give them a relatively safe, non-abusive

environment to grow up in. If you have daughters, you should

place their well-being above any feelings of loyalty to your own

mother who most likely failed to do the same for you. Nadas

often start mistreating their grandchildren when they get to the

age where they think for themselves and start showing their own

likes and dislikes. The mistreatment can be somewhat subtle, but

it can do serious emotional damage none-the-less.

As for losing some of the anger, I find that it helps me to

think of my nada as being like a dog with rabies. A dog doesn't

ask to get rabies but once it does it is likely to harm you and

you have to protect yourself from it. It doesn't matter how much

you love the dog, getting rabies makes it dangerous to you. Our

nadas didn't ask to have BPD, but it makes them dangerous to us.

I also find that it helps to see my nada as someone whose

emotional developement stopped at the level of a toddler. For

years before I figured out that she had BPD I described her as

having the hormones of a teen-ager and the emotional maturity of

a three-year-old. Toddlers have tantrums when they don't get

what they want. So do nadas. Toddlers tend to think of their own

feelings without worrying about others. So do nadas. Toddlers

can't regulate their emotions yet. Neither can nadas.

Once you've taken steps to protect yourself from her, it becomes

easier to step back a bit emotionally and start seeing her as a

pathetic mentally ill woman. At least that's my experience.

At 02:06 AM 02/15/2012 and katie wrote:

>Hello everyone,

>

>I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on

>Eggshells and thought I

>would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough

>relationship with my Mom.

>Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom

>more than likely

>has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I

>have for her. I

>feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting

>away with hurting me

>and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally

>that I should not

>feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

>wouldn't be this

>angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are

>some ways you

>guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I

>want to just cut

>her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't

>reasonable because

>she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really

>just isn't the

>right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

>

>Thank you in advance.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

If you read back through SWOE about the concept of FOG you may

understand what you are dealing with. Of course you can t feel anger

for her, She is THE MOTHER. And she didnt mean things they way you took

them, you overreacted. And her motives were only for your best

interest. If she hurt your feelings, it was just a joke.

And so on.

Truth?

Yes, she hurt you. Yes, she used you to meet her needs, regardless of

your own. Yes, she switched roles with you, making you the parent and

responsible for her.

If your child were a drug addict and stole from you to feed their habit,

you would damn sure be mad about it! You would still love your child,

but make no mistake, you would be angry, and justifiably so. Your mom

is a borderline. That is a lot harder to live with than simple drug

addiction. Much she has done hurts and infuriates. It is the remnant

of FOG in you that makes you feel such guilt that you are angry.

You said your feelings are not rational. Well, feelings are NOT

rational. They reside in a different part of the brain than rational

thought. But here is an Axiom: There is no such thing as a bad

feeling. It is not wrong to feel what you feel, it simply is. Whether

you feel joy, or rage, or anger, or fear, your feelings are your own no

one has any right to tell you " Aw, you shouldnt feel that way. "

Now actions are another thing. I can control actions with my rational

mind. So, if I am angry and punch someone, that may be an inappropriate

response. The mature, adult thing to do is let it calm down, then

discuss it with the one who angered you. Tell them, you made me angry

when you did that. Of course, with Nada, that can never happen. For

with her, if you became angry at something she did, it is, of course,

your fault.

Again, cutting her off, ( Limited contact or No contact) is a decision

you need to make. Only you can make it. It is not right having to do so

with your mom and kids grandmother. But your first concern must be your

emotional health and that of your kids.

It is not that you don t want your mom, you dont want the crazy making

behaviors. So what you truly seek is boundaries. ( Book recommedation

Boundaries, Cloud and Townsend. I think you can order it from

BPDCentral.com) If you do this, then I will do this. If you violate my

boundary, I will not have contact with you for a period of time. I get

to set the boundaries for my health, because I am an adult, and the

mother to my children.

Now, a BP mom will come charging through those boundaries over and over.

So it becomes up to her, either to learn that you mean business and if

she wants to see you and her granddaughters Do NOT do XYZ. Or she will

not, and then the choice of LC or NC comes from her choices regarding

your ( reasonable) boundaries.

If your nieghbors dog continues to pee on your roses, you have a problem

to work out with the nieghbor. It may ultimately require a fence that

keeps her dog out of your space altogether.

Borderlines pee on our roses all the time.

Build a fence. But put in a gate. She can choose to be a good

nieghbor, or not. And you need not be guilty about it.

Doug

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

thought I

> would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with

my Mom.

> Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

likely

> has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have

for her. I

> feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

hurting me

> and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

should not

> feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

wouldn't be this

> angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some

ways you

> guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to

just cut

> her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

because

> she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just

isn't the

> right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug

What a wonderful analogy of the roses, fence and GATE. I think you highlighted

something that is really important and useful when setting boundaries.

Boundaries aren't just about saying 'no! And keeping the BPD person at bay, the

can also allow us to let the BPD person in and say yes! I'm starting to learn

that proper, healthy boundaries can enhance my relationship with my nada,

however, if she chooses to reject them then she is responsible. Finding a

balance is my challenge. For me it's a lot of trial and error as I'm new to it.

Any suggestions on striking a balance without getting sucked in again?

Thanks

Mel

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

> thought I

> > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with

> my Mom.

> > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

> likely

> > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have

> for her. I

> > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

> hurting me

> > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

> should not

> > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

> wouldn't be this

> > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some

> ways you

> > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to

> just cut

> > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

> because

> > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just

> isn't the

> > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Welcome to the Group, to you and to all the new folks who have joined recently.

I agree with Elora and others who write: please don't feel guilty about your

anger. Feeling angry and hurt and betrayed is a natural result of being

repeatedly neglected and scapegoated, or psychologically terrorized and

physically battered, or manipulated and exploited: sucked dry throughout your

formative years by the very person whom society trusts to protect you, guide and

nurture you into adulthood.

We're all here helping each other by sharing our own experiences and insights.

Our parents are (or were) NOT normal, mentally healthy people, no matter if they

were formally diagnosed or not. Normal, mentally healthy people don't treat

their children the way we here at this group were/are treated.

It does not make you " bad " to protect yourself from an abusive person, even if

that person happens to be one or both of your own parents. There is nothing

immoral or unethical or " mean " about simply withdrawing yourself out of arm's

reach of someone who is trying to hit you any more than it is unethical or

immoral to withdraw your hand from a hot stove.

My nada (for " not a mom " , or bpd mom) was a terrifying, screaming rager and

batterer, a perfectionist and control freak who could nevertheless appear normal

and even charming in public. We appeared to be a normal, nice middle-class

family on the outside but our life was frequently a nightmare of stress and

psychological terror for my little Sister and me behind closed doors. I

believe my mother had narcissistic pd and obsessive-compulsive pd (not the same

thing as obsessive-compulslive disorder, confusingly) as well as borderline pd.

My Sister speculates that our nada/mom also may have had mild schizophrenia

because of her life-long fixed, intransigent delusional beliefs and paranoia.

Our nada wound up in her last year actively hallucinating and diagnosed with

senile dementia; she passed away just before Christmas at age 83.

So, my suggestion is to learn all you can and educate yourself about the Cluster

B disorders. Knowing that the behaviors are due to a mental illness can help

with taking the negative, hurtful things she says and does less personally. Any

guilt or responsibility you may be carrying RE your mother's feelings are

misplaced and inappropriate. Its NOT your job to manage how your mother feels

about anything, its not your place in life to silently accept being abused, it

doesn't help anything to do that. Passively accepting abuse only rewards the

abuser for her bad behavior and gives the target of the abuse (you)

stress-induced illnesses. And it keeps you in an emotionally dependent,

child-like state in relationship to your mother, which is for sure not healthy

or normal.

You did not cause your mother (or father) to be mentally ill, and you can't cure

her. Your only power is in deciding what you will and will not tolerate.

The adult children of bpd parents discover that we must in effect " take control "

of the relationship and make the rules, as the bpd parent is not really capable

of managing an adult relationship based on equality, mutual respect and love.

The bpd parent instead views her minor or adult children as her property:

possessions without needs or feelings, or as her subjects who owe her perfect

obedience, as perpetually remaining five years old, as her rescuer/walking ATM

machine, as her substitute spouse/therapist/parent, or as mere unthinking

extensions of herself to be treated well or ill depending on how she is feeling

about herself at the moment. None of these ways of relating to you are mentally

healthy or normal or beneficial, to either party.

Low or Limited Contact with firm boundaries in place and consequences for

boundary violation, or even No Contact (temporary or permanent) are legitimate

ways to handle a parent with these issues. Its not something we want to do and

its gut-wrenching, but we find we have to take charge (which means breaking

free of our assigned role as obedient child) and make the rules now in order to

have as normal and healthy an adult life for ourselves and our own spouses and

our own children as possible.

So, please read all you can about pds. Knowledge is power, and empowering; it

really does help to know that the behaviors are not normal, and that there are

techniques to manage those with pds. I highly recommend " Understanding The

Borderline Mother " , and there are many other good books about bpd now. The

owner of this site, Randi Kreger, has a newer book now called The Essential

Family Guide to BPD.

Others here highly recommend " Surviving A Borderline Parent. "

Again, welcome new members. You've found a bunch of fellow adult kids of bpd

parents who can relate easily to the issues you are facing, and give you

validation and support and virtual companionship on your journey toward whatever

solution works best for you.

I hope you all will gain as much peace and healing here as I have; its a

wonderful group of people.

-Annie

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and thought

I

> would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with my Mom.

> Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than likely

> has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have for her.

I

> feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with hurting

me

> and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I should not

> feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I wouldn't be

this

> angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some ways you

> guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to just cut

> her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable because

> she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just isn't the

> right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

[Guest guest]

Yea, next time don t be born to a BP parent!

Seriously though folks.

Remember that you will be the adult. If you think of a BP as a

demanding 3 year old, who doesnt quite get it, you ll do better. She

won t quite understand those boundaries, and will often test them. You

must be firm and consistant, just as if you were raising a toddler.

All the adult traits come from you. Patience, consistancy, fairness,

these will not come from her.

If you feel yourself being pulled in, take a step back.

And good luck.

Doug

>

> Hi Doug

>

> What a wonderful analogy of the roses, fence and GATE. I think you

highlighted something that is really important and useful when setting

boundaries. Boundaries aren't just about saying 'no! And keeping the BPD

person at bay, the can also allow us to let the BPD person in and say

yes! I'm starting to learn that proper, healthy boundaries can enhance

my relationship with my nada, however, if she chooses to reject them

then she is responsible. Finding a balance is my challenge. For me it's

a lot of trial and error as I'm new to it. Any suggestions on striking a

balance without getting sucked in again?

>

> Thanks

>

> Mel

>

[Guest guest]

SR,

Thanks for responding. You made a very interesting point about the pronouns.

It's so hard to separate her from me. I'm learning this is part of the process.

For her everything is HERS, and nothing is anyone elses. I have an amazing

therapist so I have hope that I will get through this in one piece. I think

shifting my hope from hoping that she will be who I envisioned her to be to

hoping that I get to be who I want to be when I am a stronger person is a better

use of my energy.

>

> Hi ,

>

> You have every reason to feel angry and all the other emotions you are

feeling. Perhaps you feel guilty because we as KO are conditioned not to show

(and thus experience) our emotions. And I think people can get angry at cancer

patients too. People are people. So please do cut yourself some slack for 1.

experiencing the emotions and 2. beating yourself up for experiencing the

emotions.

>

> My own process of discovery is relatively recent and was compounded by the

fact that it coincided with the death of mother after a 9 year illness. All I

can say is I am still experiencing a subcutaneous tidal wave of emotions, very

much related to shock and trauma, and that initially was dominated by anger, and

now involves a lot of grief, for me, thank god, and bits for my mother too, but

honestly I try not to spend too much time on her as I've already spent far too

much. I'm sure later when I've had more me time I'll be able to be more

sanguine about the whole unbelievable situation.

>

> The thing about N's i notice when reading your note, is the overuse of the

possessive pronouns when referring to people ie you have HER granddaughters.

For me a simple way to approach the problem is through the buddhist idea of

attachments the possessive pronouns reveal the nature of the N attachment. IE

all roads lead back to Rome. Those girls are not HER granddaughters, they are

humans in your stewardship and belong to no one but themselves. just my opinion

of course. I have plenty!

>

> I'm glad you are in therapy, and I think that if you trust in yourself and

allow yourself to go with how you are feeling that you will eventually come out

to a better place. (that is what i am counting on for myself!)

>

> Best,

>

> SR

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

I loved reading your post. It gave me a good laugh when reading about the

neighbor's dog analogy. Thanks for that. I will check out that book on

boundaries thanks for the advise!

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

> thought I

> > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with

> my Mom.

> > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

> likely

> > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have

> for her. I

> > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

> hurting me

> > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

> should not

> > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

> wouldn't be this

> > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some

> ways you

> > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to

> just cut

> > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

> because

> > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just

> isn't the

> > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My nada likes to use me as a therapist. What do you think would be a proper

boundary for that. Obviously I don't want her to do that. How would I word that

to her?

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

thought I

> > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with my

Mom.

> > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

likely

> > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have for

her. I

> > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

hurting me

> > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I should

not

> > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I wouldn't be

this

> > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some ways you

> > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to just

cut

> > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

because

> > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just isn't

the

> > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

love the dog peeing on the roses analogy. I went thru a literal version of this

a few years ago with a neighbor that I now believe is also BPD. Put up a new

fence and everything, it wasn't dogs peeing, but this neighbor peeing in my

" wheaties " all the time and I put up a higher fence to create privacy.

One thing that baffles me tho, with all the experience I have with my nada, is

how long it took for me to figure out that this man was just like her! Do we

have a harder time recognizing BPD in men than in women? We seem to have an

easier time labeling the men with these characteristics as NPD, but not BPD so

much. Why is that?

C

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

> thought I

> > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with

> my Mom.

> > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

> likely

> > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have

> for her. I

> > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

> hurting me

> > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

> should not

> > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

> wouldn't be this

> > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some

> ways you

> > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to

> just cut

> > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

> because

> > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just

> isn't the

> > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think some of us can have a hard time recognizing BPD in the

people around us because it feels familiar and doesn't stand out

as abnormal at first.

I'm not sure that we have an easier time labeling men as having

NPD rather than BPD as opposed to we simply come across more men

who seem to have NPD. The cluster B personality disorders seem

to have a rather mix-and-match set of symptoms with people

commonly showing symptoms of more than one of them. Men may tend

more toward NPD symptoms while women tend more toward BPD

symptoms. A number of brain-related issues are more common in

men or in women. I think there's a lot more to learn where stuff

like that is concerned. It also seems like women with BPD often

pair themselves up with men with NPD, possibly because the only

other type of men who put up with their behavior is the dish-rag

type and some of them don't want a dish-rag for a husband.

At 05:07 PM 02/16/2012 CmeBfree wrote:

>Doug,

>

>love the dog peeing on the roses analogy. I went thru a

>literal version of this a few years ago with a neighbor that I

>now believe is also BPD. Put up a new fence and everything, it

>wasn't dogs peeing, but this neighbor peeing in my " wheaties "

>all the time and I put up a higher fence to create privacy.

>

>One thing that baffles me tho, with all the experience I have

>with my nada, is how long it took for me to figure out that

>this man was just like her! Do we have a harder time

>recognizing BPD in men than in women? We seem to have an easier

>time labeling the men with these characteristics as NPD, but

>not BPD so much. Why is that?

>

>C

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

That's a hard one. I'd say an appropriate boundary might be " I'm

not going to be a dumping ground for her emotional baggage. "

(Remember, the boundary is for YOU. I don't recommend telling

her this one outright.) When she starts using you that way, you

might say something like " mom, I can tell you're upset, but I'm

not qualified to give you advice on this type of thing. Perhaps

you should talk to a therapist. " The best way to word it really

depends on what she's saying to you and how she reacts to

various things. Whatever you say, she's not going to like it.

You need to stand firm and not continue listening to things that

violate your boundaries though.

I tend to be a lot less specific with my nada. I gave up on

telling her what she could talk to me about as such. Doing so

only results in an argument about whether what she was saying

qualified or not. Now I simply tell her " we're not going to talk

about that " and let her come to her own conclusion about exactly

what " that " is. It took quite a few incidences of hanging up the

phone or walking out on her before she learned that I meant it

when I told her we weren't going to talk about that.

At 12:24 PM 02/16/2012 kkbrooks1025 wrote:

>My nada likes to use me as a therapist. What do you think would

>be a proper boundary for that. Obviously I don't want her to do

>that. How would I word that to her?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Well, that's just it, I knew the behavior wasn't " normal " from the get go, but I

chalked it up more to his alcoholism than to a PD. His behavior escalated to the

point of extremely verbally abusive emails, texts and personal interactions. It

culminatied in a threat to " shoot " me if I " ever stepped foot on his property

again. I chalked it up to anger management issues, agian never even thought to

put a PD on it. I filed for a restraining order two and half years ago, and got

it. Still never occurred to me.

I finally put it together when my nada left me all these messages, where she was

assuming I was with holding contact from her grandson as a way of getting back

at her. Anyway, the pattern clicked and I just realized, OMG, this is the same

crap that my neighbor pulled. I wanted to kick myself for not realizing it

sooner. It just made me think that we are less likely to put the label of BPD on

a man than to say he has " anger management issues. " It was one of those light

bulb moments.

C

> >Doug,

> >

> >love the dog peeing on the roses analogy. I went thru a

> >literal version of this a few years ago with a neighbor that I

> >now believe is also BPD. Put up a new fence and everything, it

> >wasn't dogs peeing, but this neighbor peeing in my " wheaties "

> >all the time and I put up a higher fence to create privacy.

> >

> >One thing that baffles me tho, with all the experience I have

> >with my nada, is how long it took for me to figure out that

> >this man was just like her! Do we have a harder time

> >recognizing BPD in men than in women? We seem to have an easier

> >time labeling the men with these characteristics as NPD, but

> >not BPD so much. Why is that?

> >

> >C

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

If this were happening to me, I think I'd say something like, " Mom, I'm really

not qualified to be *anyone's* therapist. I don't have the training, and

besides, no psychologist or psychiatrist treats his or her own family members

anyway because of the lack of objectivity.

It would be better for both of us if you found a really great professional

therapist who could actually help you with this stuff. All I can do is just

listen and say " uh-huh " and that's not really helping you, AND its making me

stressed and upset. So, from now on, I'm " not in " as the substitute

psychiatrist, OK? So, who are you thinking about voting for... (distract her

with another topic.) "

Maybe something like that would do the trick. But if she balks or keeps trying

to put you in that role again, you just do the " broken record " bit, repeat the

" Nope, sorry, we're not going there " part and distract her with some other

topic. If she reacts badly and tries to make you feel guilty by crying, or

frightened by raging, then you can say something like, " I can hear that you are

upset, but we can't really talk together in a meaningful way when you are crying

like that or screaming at me. We can talk later when you are calmer. I'm

hanging up now. "

And if she pulls out the big guns and threatens suicide, you call 911. If its a

genuine suicide attempt, she needs genuine emergency medical intervention and

treatment that you can't give her, and if its just a manipulative ploy, she'll

discover that she's just made herself vulnerable to having involuntary 72-hour

psychiatric observation.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hello everyone,

> > >

> > > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

thought I

> > > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with my

Mom.

> > > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

likely

> > > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have for

her. I

> > > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

hurting me

> > > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I should

not

> > > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I wouldn't

be this

> > > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some ways

you

> > > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to just

cut

> > > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

because

> > > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just isn't

the

> > > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My billing rate is $ 150 an hour. How were you planning to pay today?

That ought to shut her up.

Doug

> > >

> > > Hello everyone,

> > >

> > > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells

and thought I

> > > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship

with my Mom.

> > > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more

than likely

> > > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I

have for her. I

> > > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away

with hurting me

> > > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

should not

> > > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

wouldn't be this

> > > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are

some ways you

> > > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want

to just cut

> > > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't

reasonable because

> > > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really

just isn't the

> > > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug

I also loved your line:

> Borderlines pee on our roses all the time.

Thanks for the smile.

LT

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells and

> thought I

> > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship with

> my Mom.

> > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more than

> likely

> > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I have

> for her. I

> > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away with

> hurting me

> > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

> should not

> > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

> wouldn't be this

> > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are some

> ways you

> > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want to

> just cut

> > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't reasonable

> because

> > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really just

> isn't the

> > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> >

> > Thank you in advance.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

Love that, that is awesome!

> > > >

> > > > Hello everyone,

> > > >

> > > > I saw this support group while reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells

> and thought I

> > > > would give it a try. Growing up I had a pretty rough relationship

> with my Mom.

> > > > Going through therapy for myself have come to realize my Mom more

> than likely

> > > > has BPD. Right now I am just trying to work through the anger I

> have for her. I

> > > > feel like this is yet another situation that she is getting away

> with hurting me

> > > > and I am left with picking up the pieces. I know rationally that I

> should not

> > > > feel that way about it because she is sick. If she had Cancer I

> wouldn't be this

> > > > angry with her and feel like she is hurting me again. What are

> some ways you

> > > > guys have worked through anger with your parents? Right now I want

> to just cut

> > > > her off and have nothing to do with her. I know that isn't

> reasonable because

> > > > she is my Mom, and I have her Grand daughters. Oy. Anger really

> just isn't the

> > > > right word, furious, hurt, betrayed maybe all mixed together.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you in advance.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>