Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi , I feel you completely on the anger thing. I've been so filled with rage at nada that it's spilled over into other parts of my life. I blame her for a lot of things and it makes me angry that things were so unfair and she could hurt me so badly. I don't know how to forgive her yet for how she hurt me, but learning to work through the anger I feel has been the first step for me. No, it may not be her fault, but it still happened, and it was wrong and it's okay to feel angry. In fact, our anger tells us something. From my PTSD workbook: 1. Anger is natural and a part of you 2. Anger is a signal about what is happening around you 3. Anger helps you to know yourself better 4. Anger tells you to protect yourself and make necessary changes 5. Reasons for your anger can be shared with those who matter to you. The exercise it had me work through is thinking about how this anger has helped me and hurt me. For instance, I think the anger I had helped me not sit and just take abuse when I got older and helped me to preserve my sense of integrity, which in turn protected me from hurting me more. But on the much more painful side, my inability to express my anger at her or others resulted in my bottling it up which turned into depression, physical pain and learned helplessness as well as me lashing out against my little sister that nada split as all good. It also has steps to resolving anger which can be summed up as experiencing the anger, bringing the trauma to a closure, taking responsibility for the anger and finding away to express it so it doesn't hurt you and learning to protect yourself from further hurt so it feels safe to let go of this anger. Hope this helps!!! > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I honestly don't know. It is natural to feel anger towards those who formed us, whether or not they were sick. Just because your mother was ill, doesn't mean she gets a pass on the responsibility of raising a child. Some BPD's hold it together when they need to. Why weren't we precious enough to them to have them hold it together? I think the anger must be examined, fully felt and processed before we can put it away for good. I know I feel less anger now than I once did, and in different ways, so I know the processing of it is good because I am moving forward. I spent the first 15 years of life trying to survive emotional hell, 15 more staying anesthetized, and the last 15 trying to understand it all. I often think that those years could have been spent more productively if I hadn't been raised by 2 duds. Just keep working your process--you'll get there. > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 who is asking you to forgive? is it you, or someone else putting pressure on you to forgive? why do you think you need to forgive, or if it is another person, what do they think forgiveness will do for you? is it like going through a toll where you can't get through until you put the money in the basket? is it blocking your life? about the anger, does the anger that comes up make you feel guilty? does it make you feel as though you have not forgiven? if you forgive things that you remember then remember another instance and get angry, are you somehow guilty? I honestly am not even sure what forgiveness is, to tell you the truth. I am not someone who thinks it is much of a necessity in life. I think it is sometimes touted by people who think that emotions are infinite, because they are too afraid to actually feel them and let them pass. and they DO pass. and then what happens after the feelings is sometimes forgiveness, and sometimes not. and the feelings come in waves, just like the memories. having a god-given reaction (anger) to a violation is not wrong, nor is having a memory of it. my anger and my memory are both god-given tools. it sounds like, ironically, your pressure on yourself to 'forgive', without allowing yourself the time and space to feel your feelings about what happened, might be getting in the way of your eventual forgiveness. you have to feel the feelings first, and honor the child that was victimized, and get some validation for her. once all that is processed, comes peace and perhaps forgiveness, or whatever spiritual state that one works toward. For me it would be acceptance, hard-core, that a) it happened and being self-destructive with addiction is just denial and continues the abuse and it will always happen, no matter what, and I have to let go of the relationship in order to protect myself....that might mean no contact or passive detachment, meaning at least breaking the emotional ties. it has been a very emotional week for me and I am in process of this right now with my mother. she has always wanted me to 'forgive' her but she shows no remorse for what she has done and continues to do. she shows ZERO comprehension of how it hurts me, despite years of my teary-eye pleas that it does. it's over, fuggedaboutit. I'm done. at the same time I have a tremendous amount of compassion for the child she was. I have tremendous amounts of compassion for the children all the screwed up people in my family started out as, because I believe in repetition compulsion and I understand on a very deep level how thorougly they were destroyed. I just don't know where the concept of 'forgiveness' comes into it. so much of that just seems like guilt trying to smother anger to death. I feel peace about most of them except nada and fada, and I know peace will come when I leave and complete the process of not letting them hurt me anymore. my mother says she wants me to 'forgive her' but what she means is she wants me to pretend it did not hurt me and never ever bring it up again or talk about it again. I know she doesn't want true forgiveness because she is completely unaware of what it is exactly she has done that warrants forgiveness, and she dang sure is not willing to me enumerate those items for her. the sad thing about forgiveness with a bpd/npd is that it's not the same as a normal healthy person who shows remorse and vows not to repeat the behavior. the PD person will ALWAYS repeat the behavior, you can bank on it. Forgiveness in the present I guess would be expecting that, and trying to maintain at least the appearance of detachment. But it doesn't mean we aren't going to feel normal human emotions about their behavior. Hugs, please be gentle and kind to yourself, and to the little child inside that is still hurting from all the abuse. > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I'm so sorry, . I go through those feelings, too. Am in that now, as a matter of fact. I've been thinking about how my mother's depression/anxiety have held me back in so many ways, and then thinking about what could have been, you know? I try not to stay there, it doesn't help me in the present. I'm trying now to set goals for myself. Hugs, Fiona > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 well first of all, i feel you have every right to be angry! Â enraged even.. after all she did 'ruin' your life with all the anxiety and depression you have had to deal with.. it may have not been her 'fault' because she had an untreated mental illness yet it still stands that her behavior has impacted you quite a lot. Â you are entitled to not have forgiveness in your heart towards her yet. Â i think it is only with our building good relationships where we can grieve and heal that we can eventually get to a place where forgiveness comes 'naturally' to us. Â it is not something we can force with an act of will i don't think. Â true our anger does not 'hurt' her but only ourselves and in fact the past injustices can never be made whole nor our histories any different than what they are.. but until we can do the hard work of healing i think our anger is not only natural but healthy more than not. Â getting help to deal with it and process it can be a far more effective thing to do than trying to 'forgive' i believe. Â a good book to recommend, another one by henry cloud: Â changes that heal.hope this helps. Subject: how do I forgive her? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 8:55 PM Â my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Annletters2: you have made a very important point. The anger we feel is what motivates us along this path of change. It helps us get to clear about what we need & deserve. It helps us set boundaries, and aids us in their reinforcement. If our repeated attempts to get a healthy distance from our FOO are not honored by them, it gives us the strength to go NC. The anger pushes us into the grieving process, which we also must do. Grieve the family we thought we had. It is only then we can really let go and be free to live to our full potential as a person separate from the BPD/NPD in our lives. So, the anger is very good. However difficult it is for many of us who had to suppress/deny our anger in our FOO. > > > Subject: how do I forgive her? > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 8:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 A few points for you to ponder. Who the hell said it is not her fault? She is responsible for the hurt she has caused you. She does have a mental illness, but part of BPD is the extreme resistance on thier part to admit fault, accept blame, seek change, or be part of true healing and change. I don t know your story, but I ll bet is is safe to say she has never, once, in your life, accepted personal responsibility for anything she did that hurt you or caused negative results for her. You are entitled to your anger. Express it, work with a Therapist on it, but don t stuff it down and pretend that you should not be angry because " poor Mom is sick " . That is exactly what she would have you believe. I would still encourage you to forgive her for the past, but forbid her to harm you in the future. Forgiving doesnt mean saying , Oh it s not your fault. Nor does it mean saying, oh its alright, it s no big deal. Forgiveness means saying, I recognize fully that you did me harm , great harm. I don t minimize it, nor will I let you. You did do these things, you did mean to do them, it was not an accident. But, in forgiving you, I am forgoing my right to exact revenge or payment for the harm you did. I recognize how bad it was, but I m letting go of it. It is all yours now, not mine. I won t carry the anger, grief, and pain. You hurt me, but I m free of it and free to move on. I will never let you hurt me again, but the hurts of the past are now yours to deal with, or not. And that is why you seek to forgive, for your own healing. It is not done easily. You may need a free and safe place first to just express that bottled up anger. You may need to beat the snot out of a pillow or couch, and scream and rage at an empty chair where Nada will sit symbolically. It may be healing for you to sit in the Nada chair, and say, for nada, all the things you wish she would say to you. Process your emotions, don t deny them. Then move on. You may need help, but it is a worthwhile effort. May we all heal! Doug > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Doug has expressed perfectly how I feel about forgiveness too. It's not minimizing the pain caused or telling the person " it's OK, you didn't mean to " , especially in this case. BPD's love their control games too much for it to be an accident. But it does involve letting go. That's a hard thing to do because memories pop up. And in my case where I'm trying to take care of my nada within my own boundaries (she's elderly), she still plays her games. She even mentioned it herself the other day but that's another story. I do what I have to do, treat her like a stranger in need but I can never open myself up to her again. She has no real remorse and so there can be no healing between us. But I can go on with my life, taking back control one little step at a time. It feels so much better than living in fear and sadness and with regrets for things I never had. > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I, for one, will not be doing any forgiving anytime soon. Maybe someday. Maybe 20 or 30 years from now, but I'm not going to now and I don't feel bad about it. Our parents did have a choice: they may not have been able to control their actions toward us but they didn't have to have kids. Anybody who's that fucked up shouldn't be having kids. It's just wrong. I try not to sit around and stew and be angry. I try to be as peaceful as I can as much of the time as I can, but I can't do forgiveness. And I realize some of you have a very specialized form of forgiveness, but to me, forgiveness means forgiveness toward a a person who has wronged me and some people don't deserve it. It also dawned on me the other day that my parents " love " me the way a lizard " loves " its children. It may try to make sure they don't die, but that's about it. Nothing more. > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Doug, This was beautiful. Thank you. > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 And as a corollary, I would would say that living well is the best revenge. Because especially after all the sh*t we've been through, we deserve some freaking awesomeness in our lives in whatever form that takes, whether it be professional, personal, romantic, educational/academic, spiritual, physical, artistic, etc. Find the support that you need to begin to live well because you deserve it and you're not going to find it with these people, but you can find it. On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:31 PM, clefairy_looking_for_moonstone < clefairy_looking_for_moonstone@...> wrote: > ** > > > Doug, > This was beautiful. > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 'treat her like a stranger in need but I can never open myself up to her again' that is very eloquent. I have moved into this space with my mother finally. I hope it lasts. If it doesn't, I am sure there will be more pain around the corner. I don't really know what flipped the switch this time...there was an unforseen ambush a week ago that wasn't really that major but it triggered in me the feelings of all the attacks from the past, the pain, and it centered for me that yes she really IS this bad and no she really doesn't have any real empathy for me and she continues to sucker punch me no matter how much of a friend/confidant/lay therapist I am to her...I can never give enough to earn her consideration of my feelings. It's very strange, this feeling. Forgiveness doesn't enter into it yet, it may be something i do but under different terminology though I tend to have the opposite problem because i am not good at holding a grudge and I let people back in over and over and over again. I do think it's important for us to remember with bpd 'moving on' doesn't mean letting them back in. > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 yep, i agree. easier said than done sometimes tho. > ** > > > Doug, > This was beautiful. > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 My Sister has achieved a state of relating to our nada, that I think of as " compassionate detachment. " Sister takes the responsibility to see to it that our nada's physical/medical needs are being met, that her money is safe, that nada is being seen and assessed by doctors who are giving her treatment that seems to be improving her mental state somewhat, and Sister has found an Alzheimer's care residence that is nice and not some badly-run warehouse. But several years ago now, Sister stopped thinking of our nada as " Mother. " Nada was not capable of being trusted with Sister's open, loving heart and would stomp on it again and again. Having her trust destroyed over and over and over finally forced Sister (and me) to withdraw that special, open, child-like bond with this person. Neither Sister nor I can ever be open and trusting with nada again. So, it is very much as you quoted; my nada is now receiving the care and consideration that any human being in need deserves, or any friend or stranger or relative in need deserves, but nada has destroyed that special bond of trust between us, many times over. -Annie > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 For me forgivness is as simple as just movinng on. Flipping back through my memories of the past like a photo albumn on occaision. Maybe getting stuck on a page or two here or there along the way. I think forgiveness is a very nebulous and confusing topic often preached from an abusive pulpit. For me, the kindest thing I have to say to them is just. . . nothing. On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:25 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > My Sister has achieved a state of relating to our nada, that I think of as > " compassionate detachment. " Sister takes the responsibility to see to it > that our nada's physical/medical needs are being met, that her money is > safe, that nada is being seen and assessed by doctors who are giving her > treatment that seems to be improving her mental state somewhat, and Sister > has found an Alzheimer's care residence that is nice and not some badly-run > warehouse. > > But several years ago now, Sister stopped thinking of our nada as " Mother. " > Nada was not capable of being trusted with Sister's open, loving heart and > would stomp on it again and again. > > Having her trust destroyed over and over and over finally forced Sister > (and me) to withdraw that special, open, child-like bond with this person. > Neither Sister nor I can ever be open and trusting with nada again. > > So, it is very much as you quoted; my nada is now receiving the care and > consideration that any human being in need deserves, or any friend or > stranger or relative in need deserves, but nada has destroyed that special > bond of trust between us, many times over. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I > feel > > > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is > not > > > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I agree; each of us has to work out for ourselves what exactly is the definition of " forgiveness " and whether we feel we need to or even want to pursue it or not. Its a highly individual choice. I personally think its reprehensible to attempt to make a victim of abuse feel obligated to " forgive " their abuser in any way, particularly if it means subjecting the victim to further trauma or abuse. For me personally, forgiveness is a transaction between two people, and has to involve several steps, including the perpetrator asking for forgiveness from the person they hurt because they actually feel genuine remorse. So from my point of view, choosing to withdraw either physically or emotionally, or both, from the abusive person or situation is simply " detachment " : there was no request for forgiveness made and none given; no transaction occurred. Its a one-way act by an individual person, as in " I'm withdrawing from you, whether you like it or not. " So, my Sister chose to emotionally detach from our nada. Sister is there for nada physically, but there is no emotional attachment now. From my own perspective, I'm discovering to my surprise that now that my nada's mind is deteriorating due to Alzheimer's, she has lost a great deal of her emotional power over me. I'm finding myself less afraid of her (!!) and less afraid of or upset over the idea of resuming contact with her. For one thing, its blatantly and publicly obvious now that my nada is severely mentally ill and has a great deal of paranoia in her, and a great deal of anger; so much so that she physically attacked one of her caregivers. Other people are now seeing the rage and blaming and projecting and paranoid accusations that I and my Sister have endured our whole lives. So, oddly, I am finding now that I am leaning more towards feeling safe enough to show my nada some compassion. I'm not by any means saying, " Everyone should feel the way I do. " I hope that is not what is coming across; I do not intend to convey ANY " you shoulds " or " you ought tos " to anyone here. Oh, hell no! I'm just sharing *my* journey here. Its full of discovery for me; I'm learning things about *myself* that in some cases I am ashamed of, and in other cases I am happy about, and sometimes, neither. Its simply something new I've found out. But I did want to share that *I* see a difference between: " detachment " : I'm withdrawing from you so that you can't hurt me any more, but I am not out for revenge, I'm just walking away (either emotionally or physically, or both) and will have no attachment to you from now on because I can't trust you, and your opinion about this is irrelevant to me. and " forgiveness " :You feel badly that you hurt me and you want me to forgive you, so you express remorse in a sincere way and ask me for forgiveness; I will probably grant it. This means I will trust your sincere promise to not hurt me in that way again, and on my part I promise to not bring up this hurtful incident again and punish/shame you with it in the future. -Annie > > For me forgivness is as simple as just movinng on. Flipping back through my > memories of the past like a photo albumn on occaision. Maybe getting stuck > on a page or two here or there along the way. I think forgiveness is a very > nebulous and confusing topic often preached from an abusive pulpit. For me, > the kindest thing I have to say to them is just. . . nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Annie - You have given us a beautiful description of a state of mind that can become a goal for many of us - we have to go through the pain and sorrow of realizing that we're never going to " fix " our Nadas, then we have to decide on some form of NC or LC to maintain our own sanity and safety, but eventually we can come to the place where we treat our aging Nadas (or Fadas) with some form of compassion and kindness - not because we like them, or love them, or feel we owe them a filial duty, but because the strength to treat them with a measure of kindness lies within US. No matter that our parents are damaged, and that they damaged us. We can raise ourselves into thoughtful, logical, sane, compassionate adults. At that point, we are dealing with Nada from a true position of strength. We won't trust her or cave in to her petty demands, but we won't become her, either. We are better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think forgiving and responsibility go hand in hand. Forgiving has nothing to do with " feeling " like forgiving. Part of a borderline's problem is taking responsibility. I know my BP mother doesn't take responsibility for ANYTHING! And I see myself following in her footsteps when I don't take responsibility and blame her for " ruining " my life. One of the biggest helps for me is taking responsibility for my life, despite all my difficulties from her influence. By doing this, I " release " her from her responsibility and her " debt " to me - aka, forgiving. Once I am in control of my own actions and see all of my actions and thoughts as my own, and not hers or influenced by her. I see the harm she has done, and I take a step back, look at my own behavior and no longer connect her to my behavior. My inspiration for this was years ago I heard of a woman who was kidnapped, raped, and her rapist then cut off her arms and left her to die in a forest. She managed to crawl her way to the road. A driver picked her up and drove her to the hospital and she survived. The most shocking part - she completely forgave her attacker. She now suffers every day from not having use of her arms. But, what I think forgiveness is, is also accepting the present as it is. She will never get her arms back. If she kept venting over the loss of her arms, she would be living in her own personal hell. But instead, amazingly, she chose to forgive her attacker and lives as best she can without arms. AMAZING! It's a lot harder when the one who has hurt you is a parent because it's deeply personal and the one who was supposed to be your security and safety isn't. It's much easier to forgive a stranger. But I think the idea is the same. I too suffer with a lot of issues because of my parents, esp. because of my BP mom, but when I think, okay, how can I live the best I can with: anxiety, depression, lack of sense of self, longing for a mother, etc. and focus on others, rather than myself, a lot of these issues are alleviated. Again, this is just my personal experience, but I notice the times when I am happiest is when I am giving of myself, and the times when I am most miserable is when I am by myself contemplating my misery. When I am able to give of myself, I am also able to forgive my mom, because she is no longer in control so I have no reason to be angry with her! This is an every day battle... There are moments and days when I feel free from her and then there are other days when I am tormented and cannot bring myself to forgive her at all. > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 that is what I am doing. I don't know why this particular incident brought it about. I know it was a series of things that happened that led to this. And therapy...my therapist had just assigned me a 'homework' that was to think about what healthy boundaries with my family might mean. My mother needs a 'horrible person' in her life or she can't function. I realized that no matter how much I am, or what I am, she will ALWAYS put me into this horrible person role. And somehow I just detached. Probably a huge percentage has to do with this message board and the validation that comes from reading these posts. I haven't spoken to her for a week and a half. Which is awkward considering we live on the same property. I don't have any desire to speak to her, and I don't have any desire to have eye contact with her, or look at her. It's bizarre to me that I feel this way. It isn't anger so much as revulsion and a strong desire to move past this and not maintain any relationship at all. The scary part right now is probably for the first time I am looking at the fact that I am not 'the horrible person' who is undeserving of her love. It's weird to look back on you whole life being affected by something that was not true. I have had a markedly easier time dealing with my dad who is a flaming @sshole at least half of his waking existence. But nada is so slippery and slimy...I finally have it figured out though. I just all of a sudden, after the straw that broke the camel's back, have no desire to have any relationship with her ever again. What I have to watch out for now is trying to suck me into a discussion of what is wrong. I have fallen for that in the past, only to be completely suckerpunched by her and have the whole thing made worse by her comments after the fact. whatever conflict we have, in the end is because, once again, i'm a horrible person. that's what I have to guard against right now, her fake-earnest attempts at reconciliation. > > > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 non-forgiveness vs. forgiveness in the instance of having a bpd parent...non-forgiveness might be the healthier choice. My life would be completely different had I not made so many attempts at reconciliation and make so many !@$@# 'amends' over the years and kept coming back for more abuse. It reminds me of the Green River Trial where one of the victim's relatives got up and 'forgave' Ridgeway for killing their loved one...sorry but that is up to God in my book, not a mere human, to forgive a serial killer. And then Ridgeway gets up and rambles inanely about how much he had 'in common' with his victims, ( " she was a wife, I have a wife " ). He was not taking any of it in, at all. And the guy came off to me as disingenuous and creepy (the forgiver). I only kept my family in my life because I felt I could earn their love someday if I proved to them I was a 'good' person'. It was never possible. I would have been a thousand percent better off if I'd stayed angry as hell and driven off into the sunset 25 years ago and never looked back. That anger is there for a reason, and all the spiritualiy and religion I threw at it just kept me sick and in the abuse. I think it's pretty brave to speak up about this and be honest about keeping the boundary of anger, when it keeps a wall up between us and abuse. I am extremely wary of discussions about forgiveness because it's soooooo easy to say, " I forgave " someone, but no one knows what is in someone's heart and mind. It sounds good, and there is a lot of cultural demand to do so. But what is really going on in that person's life? My mother 'forgave' her father for molesting her for 15 years, and then she sent three of her children to be sexually assaulted by him. We were sent to his house and it was with full knowledge we would be sleeping in his bed with him at night. She still claims to have 'forgiven' him and has his pictures up in her house, where her children who were victimized by him can see him. She still talks about him, and the silence in the room is deafening when she does because everyone knows he was a serial pedophile, but she doesn't 'get it'. It's not forgiveness she practices, it's denial and repression. I am pretty apt to disbelieve and discount anyone who brags about having 'forgiven' something heinous, because I always suspect they have ulterior motives for making public their feelings about something that is none of my business anyway (the event or the feelings). > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 The wonder of it all is that its possible for us to reach levels and stages of healing and inner peace and to go forward with our lives, in many ways. There is no one right way or best way or only way. We each have to figure out for ourselves what we can or can't live with, handle or tolerate. What we share here is what is working for us personally, or what isn't working yet or hasn't worked in the past; and we share validation, support, and our own insights and opinions. You will read many personal opinions here, some may resonate with you and some won't. Its like a buffet: you get to choose. Some of us here want to or need to remain in contact with our bpd parent(s) or sib(s), and some of us don't want this or can't tolerate it because it inflicts fresh emotional injury or is actually physically dangerous. Some of us feel a need to forgive (in whatever way you personally define forgiveness) and some of us don't feel this need, but can move on and heal anyway. This journey is about finding out what may or may not work *for you*. My own personal opinion is that simply protecting yourself by moving out of reach of an abusive person (emotionally, physically, or both) is a morally neutral act, with no more moral content than moving your hand away from a hot stove burner. Bottom line *for me*: Its all OK. All of it. I personally am in no position to judge anyone's choice. Because now, in this moment, in the present, finally, its about us and what we need in order to heal and move forward in a positive way. And as others here have stated, its not about changing the person with bpd. The person with bpd is the only one who has the power to change himself or herself. We only have the power to change our own self and how we respond to someone who is abusive to us. So if you need to go No Contact either temporarily or permanently: its OK If you need to remain in Low/Limited Contact with Boundaries and Consequences in place: its OK If you need to simply emotionally and/or physically detach and walk away: its OK If you need to grant forgiveness to your abuser: its OK If you need to withhold forgiveness or if the concept is irrelevant to you: its OK If you aren't ready to make any choices or changes yet: its OK It takes time to figure all this out, for ourselves. Sometimes, a lot of time. And that's OK too. -Annie > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Okay, so I just re-read that post and realized I sounded pretty pretentious - and in the mean time Nada called from Assisted Living with her bi-weekly list of demands, so all my smug " compassionate detachment " got awfully close to " veins on my neck are bulging. " I have all the junk from her apartment in storage, so when she calls me, I have to go dig through boxes of stuff and find whatever she is after, then deliver it to her. (I'm making the trip about every two weeks, and hope to get it down to once a month.) In the process of telling me what her latest need is, she NEVER FAILS to insert some sort of " dig " at me - " I want those navy sandals. If you had packed up my stuff the way you should have, they wouldn't be hard to find. They're my favorite and I used to wear them all the time. But of course YOU don't know what I like to wear, because you never came around... " It is truly impressive the way she can make a snarky remark about any tiny thing - and at the same time she's 'requiring' me to deliver the goods to her, leave cash for the soda machines, handle her medical expenses and insurance bills, and pay some of those bills out of my own pocket. Freakin' unbelievable - talk about biting the hand that feeds you! So, in the spirit of forgiveness, in the sense of " not strangling Nada because it would land me in jail, " here is a coping mechanism - there was a Far Side cartoon years ago, with two panels - and each one had a drawing of a man and his dog. The first one was titled, " What You Say To the Dog " - and the man was lecturing, " BAD dog, Ginger! You are a BAD dog, Ginger! " The second panel was titled, " What the Dog Hears " - and it showed the man saying, " Blah-blah-blah, Ginger! Blah-blah-blah, Ginger! " So that's my technique for dealing with Nada's Call of the Week - I tune out everything but the actual items on the list - " Blah-blah-blah navy sandals, blah-blah diet root beer, blah-blah... " Once I turn her into a cartoon, the throbbing in my head subsides a little. > > Annie - You have given us a beautiful description of a state of mind that can become a goal for many of us - we have to go through the pain and sorrow of realizing that we're never going to " fix " our Nadas, then we have to decide on some form of NC or LC to maintain our own sanity and safety, but eventually we can come to the place where we treat our aging Nadas (or Fadas) with some form of compassion and kindness - not because we like them, or love them, or feel we owe them a filial duty, but because the strength to treat them with a measure of kindness lies within US. No matter that our parents are damaged, and that they damaged us. We can raise ourselves into thoughtful, logical, sane, compassionate adults. At that point, we are dealing with Nada from a true position of strength. We won't trust her or cave in to her petty demands, but we won't become her, either. We are better than that. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Thank you, . And I LOVE this " Far Side " . I have always loved that particular cartoon, and think its so damned funny; it just totally resonated with me and I didn't know why. I agree: its one way of detaching emotionally: just " not hearing " anything except the relevant, specific info RE a grocery list or whatever. The behaviors you describe that your nada does are exactly the way my nada treated Sister (and me, when I was in contact with her.) That absolutely maddening combination of ordering Sister around, not being appreciative, and instead being snarky and critical, as though Sister was simply nada's slave, and a rather stupid, slow slave at that. Sometimes, with some nadas (nada=mom with bpd, short for " not a mom " ) setting reasonable boundaries and consequences just doesn't work. The person with bpd is too old or demented, or too entrenched in their negative behaviors and stubborn, or too frighteningly domineering or vindictive. Before Alzheimer's struck nada, Sister was using the boundaries-and-consequences method of handling her, but the rather extreme dementia of Alzheimer's changed the playing field and rules, so to speak. So, like you, Sister is now just dealing with our nada's physical needs and ignoring nada's constant references to her hallucinations. Sister knows that arguing with nada about the odd, impossible things she's seeing and hearing is pointless and will just upset nada. So, she just ignores it. " Blah-blah-blah- sandals, blah-blah-blah, walker... " etc. -Annie > > > > Annie - You have given us a beautiful description of a state of mind that can become a goal for many of us - we have to go through the pain and sorrow of realizing that we're never going to " fix " our Nadas, then we have to decide on some form of NC or LC to maintain our own sanity and safety, but eventually we can come to the place where we treat our aging Nadas (or Fadas) with some form of compassion and kindness - not because we like them, or love them, or feel we owe them a filial duty, but because the strength to treat them with a measure of kindness lies within US. No matter that our parents are damaged, and that they damaged us. We can raise ourselves into thoughtful, logical, sane, compassionate adults. At that point, we are dealing with Nada from a true position of strength. We won't trust her or cave in to her petty demands, but we won't become her, either. We are better than that. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I totally relate to not being able to hold a grudge. What the heck? I can't even when I really try to. I forgive, forgive, move on,move on and it is just the way I am. I drive myself nuts because of it. I just don't see the value in a grudge I guess, it seems like a waste of my time? Anyway, I too am trying desperately to just deal with the reality that it is what it is and it isn't my fault or something I can even fix about my mom. I just have to put up my " wall " , stay out of the corners and keep a sense of humor, draw my boundry lines based on my reality, not my fantasy (of what I want it to be) and carry on.And I am working very hard on not worrying about what my mom or sisters think about my boundries - they mean survival to me and my family and are non-negotiable. Heaven only knows how much I have compromised throughout my life for them- and what has it gotten me? Not happiness. I am entitled to honoring my own boundries and I deserve their respect to honor my boundaries. > > > > > > > > my mother has severe borderline personality disorder and it has > > > affected me greatly throughout my life. As a result I have struggled > > > with severe depression and anxiety for the majority of my life. I feel > > > that I blame her for in a way " ruining " my life. I know that it is not > > > her fault but it still makes me so angry! I need some advice > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.