Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Question: To what extent can a non-prehospital care certified volunteer fire fighter render care when responding as a member of a non- EMS registered first responder volunteer fire department? Situation: There are currently two positions on this question. The first is that of the VFD. The volunteer fire fighter cannot render care because she does not have an EMS certification. She has a Healthcare Provider CPR card and can do CPR. This limitation can be placed on her by the VFD since she is responding as a member of that department. The second opinion is that, except for following the orders of her department as she responds with it, she can do anything she thinks she is capable of doing without causing harm to the patient and be wiling to contest law suites that may come her way for giving treatment that she did not know how to give or that caused harm to the patient. She is in effect a by-stander who jumps in to help. Bob Tarbet, LP McGregor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Simple answer, at least for Texas. A non-licensed person responding with a non-licensed responder group, without medical direction, may not provide medical care beyond layman first aid and CPR. Even if the person is licensed, regardless of level of certification, she may not provide medical care beyond simple first aid and CPR without medical direction. If the responder group is not licensed, there is probably not a medical director. If she works for a licensed EMS somewhere, and their medical director gives her permission to provide more advanced care anytime, anywhere, this is a different story. Your second paragraph is a personal injury lawyer's wet dream. If this person, while responding with a non-licensed responder group, provides medical care beyond layman first aid and CPR, regardless of orders from her department, she will have no defense to legal or regulatory action. Cheers! Larry > > Question: To what extent can a non-prehospital care certified > volunteer fire fighter render care when responding as a member of a non- > EMS registered first responder volunteer fire department? > > Situation: There are currently two positions on this question. The > first is that of the VFD. The volunteer fire fighter cannot render > care because she does not have an EMS certification. She has a > Healthcare Provider CPR card and can do CPR. This limitation can be > placed on her by the VFD since she is responding as a member of that > department. > > The second opinion is that, except for following the orders of her > department as she responds with it, she can do anything she thinks she > is capable of doing without causing harm to the patient and be wiling > to contest law suites that may come her way for giving treatment that > she did not know how to give or that caused harm to the patient. She > is in effect a by-stander who jumps in to help. > > Bob Tarbet, LP > McGregor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 From the website of the Texas Medical Association: Good Samaritan Law: Liability for Emergency Care The Texas Good Samaritan Law limits the civil liability of persons administering emergency care in good faith at the scene of an emergency or in a health care facility. The law limits the civil liability of these persons unless their actions are wilfully and wantonly negligent. This protection does not apply to care administered for or in expectation of remuneration, or by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration. Also, the limited civil liability is not available for a person whose negligence was a producing cause of the emergency for which care is being administered. Emergency medical service personnel who are not licensed in the healing arts who administer emergency care in good faith are not liable in civil damages for an act performed in administering the care unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent. This limit of liability applies regardless of whether the care is provided for or in expectation of remuneration. I assume that confuses the issue even more . . . Subject: Re: Treatment Restrictions To: texasems-l Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 7:06 AM Simple answer, at least for Texas. A non-licensed person responding with a non-licensed responder group, without medical direction, may not provide medical care beyond layman first aid and CPR. Even if the person is licensed, regardless of level of certification, she may not provide medical care beyond simple first aid and CPR without medical direction. If the responder group is not licensed, there is probably not a medical director. If she works for a licensed EMS somewhere, and their medical director gives her permission to provide more advanced care anytime, anywhere, this is a different story. Your second paragraph is a personal injury lawyer's wet dream. If this person, while responding with a non-licensed responder group, provides medical care beyond layman first aid and CPR, regardless of orders from her department, she will have no defense to legal or regulatory action. Cheers! Larry > > Question: To what extent can a non-prehospital care certified > volunteer fire fighter render care when responding as a member of a non- > EMS registered first responder volunteer fire department? > > Situation: There are currently two positions on this question. The > first is that of the VFD. The volunteer fire fighter cannot render > care because she does not have an EMS certification. She has a > Healthcare Provider CPR card and can do CPR. This limitation can be > placed on her by the VFD since she is responding as a member of that > department. > > The second opinion is that, except for following the orders of her > department as she responds with it, she can do anything she thinks she > is capable of doing without causing harm to the patient and be wiling > to contest law suites that may come her way for giving treatment that > she did not know how to give or that caused harm to the patient. She > is in effect a by-stander who jumps in to help. > > Bob Tarbet, LP > McGregor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 The GSL does not define scope of practice. What it says, boiled down, is that if you're a doctor or a nurse, and you're getting paid to render the treatment, or you expect to be paid for it, you do not have the protection of the GSL. However, if you're a medic (that's what the " not licensed in the healing arts " language refers to) it doesn't matter whether you're paid or not, so the GSL applies to you even when you're at work on the rig. You are only covered for " ordinary negligence " however. The GSL says nothing about the things you can do. Generally speaking, if you're not functioning under a physician's delegation (this applies only to Texas; other states have statewide protocols) then you may do what a lay person is reasonably expected and allowed to do. I would equate that to what a Red Cross First Aider can do or a BCLS provider can do. That includes use of the AED, but does NOT include administration of any drugs. Simple hemorrhage control and Boy Scout bandaging and splinting are OK. After that, the view gets hazy. Spinal stabilization probably OK so long as it's done right. If the lay person gets into trouble, the lawyers will want to know what training she had in doing ANYTHING she did, and so she better have done it right. Oxygen administration is probably a no-no. Case in point: EMT has passed the Intermediate course but not yet taken the certification exam. He intubates while on a call. ZAP goes his certificate, suspended for a year. Also, remember that the EMS Act, Chapter 773, Texas Health and Safety Code, defines basic and advanced interventions. There are criminal laws for impersonating a medic. Therefore, I would say that your theoretical (I hope) free-lancing medic is balancing barefoot on a pathway of hot coals laid over quicksand with a moat with crocs on either side. And the service had better be ready to hold plenty of cake sales and barbecues to pay the damages. Gene G. > > From the website of the Texas Medical Association: >  > > Good Samaritan Law: Liability for Emergency Care > The Texas Good Samaritan Law limits the civil liability of persons > administering emergency care in good faith at the scene of an emergency or in a health > care facility. The law limits the civil liability of these persons unless > their actions are wilfully and wantonly negligent. This protection does not > apply to care administered for or in expectation of remuneration, or by a > person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents > as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for > remuneration. Also, the limited civil liability is not available for a person > whose negligence was a producing cause of the emergency for which care is being > administered. >  > Emergency medical service personnel who are not licensed in the healing arts > who administer emergency care in good faith are not liable in civil damages > for an act performed in administering the care unless the act is wilfully or > wantonly negligent. This limit of liability applies regardless of whether > the care is provided for or in expectation of remuneration. > I assume that confuses the issue even more . . . > > > > From: L. H. Pacchioni <lpmedic2000@lpmedic20> > Subject: Re: Treatment Restrictions > To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 7:06 AM > > Simple answer, at least for Texas. > > A non-licensed person responding with a non-licensed responder group, > without medical direction, may not provide medical care beyond layman > first aid and CPR. Even if the person is licensed, regardless of > level of certification, she may not provide medical care beyond > simple first aid and CPR without medical direction. If the responder > group is not licensed, there is probably not a medical director. If > she works for a licensed EMS somewhere, and their medical director > gives her permission to provide more advanced care anytime, anywhere, > this is a different story. > > Your second paragraph is a personal injury lawyer's wet dream. If > this person, while responding with a non-licensed responder group, > provides medical care beyond layman first aid and CPR, regardless of > orders from her department, she will have no defense to legal or > regulatory action. > > Cheers! Larry > > > > > > Question: To what extent can a non-prehospital care certified > > volunteer fire fighter render care when responding as a member of a > non- > > EMS registered first responder volunteer fire department? > > > > Situation: There are currently two positions on this question. > The > > first is that of the VFD. The volunteer fire fighter cannot render > > care because she does not have an EMS certification. She has a > > Healthcare Provider CPR card and can do CPR. This limitation can > be > > placed on her by the VFD since she is responding as a member of > that > > department. > > > > The second opinion is that, except for following the orders of her > > department as she responds with it, she can do anything she thinks > she > > is capable of doing without causing harm to the patient and be > wiling > > to contest law suites that may come her way for giving treatment > that > > she did not know how to give or that caused harm to the patient. > She > > is in effect a by-stander who jumps in to help. > > > > Bob Tarbet, LP > > McGregor > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.