Hello -- new kid on the block....

[Guest guest]

Whew!

I am 1/2-way through the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and everything is

swimming in my head, and I poked around this specific list on Yahoo -- lots

to jump into (and I'll never keep all of the abbreviations straight).

But -- about me -- I'm male, 49, in my second marriage and struggling a lot

in close family/intimate relationships.

I have been on a personal journey for around a year now of working on

myself, dealing with what I have found out are the affects of having

alcoholics for parents and my fitting many of the ACoA (Adult Children of

Alcoholics) characteristics and having been very co-dependent with my

mother (deceased of Alzheimer's 9 years ago). She was the " emotional "

alcoholic while my dad was the " functional " alcoholic and I hadn't even

thought of him as an alcoholic up until I started working through these

things. They divorced (finally, after three years of on/off separation)

when I was 9 -- my dad finally couldn't take taking care of my mother

anymore -- but in actuality I had been in her custody during the separation

period and then after the divorce. I was typically late for school most

days because I was getting her up and sober enough for her to make it to

her teaching job. I took care of her, I was her confidant, I lived, and

loved her, through all her ups and downs. After a few years of this my dad

got custody because my own life and schoolwork were suffering. But for the

rest of her life, up until my first marriage, I still was the one who

sobered her up on Sundays and was a nervous wreck that she'd make it

through the week.

Well, in reading the BPD characteristics I realize that she had the

majority of them, and they intensified as her marriage to my father went on

-- things had been much better for her and them before my sister (5 years

older than I am) and I came along. And my dad fits a lot of the non-BP

spouse traits -- trying to deal with it, but eventually withdrawing (his

drinking) and then in a burst of " strength " he truly left.

Well, here's my big question -- as I have been reading the SWOE book (did I

get that right?) I see a lot of the BPD characteristics in me -- which also

line up well with being an ACoA and codependent. So -- would it make sense

that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

would contribute to me being a BP?

(And if I am a BP as well as an adult child of a BP, can I stay on the

list????)

Thank you all for your views!

Dana

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the Group Dana,

First, let me welcome you to the Group. This is a support group for the non-bpd

offspring of parents with bpd.

In my opinion, since you are expressing worry and concern that you might have

bpd and be hurtful to other people, then, you probably do not have a personality

disorder. Instead, what is more likely is that you have what are called " bpd

fleas. "

" Flea " behaviors are bpd-like behaviors learned by the child from their

dysfunctional parent, because basically all parents model their own behaviors

to their children, which becomes the child's " normal and OK. "

I grew up thinking that it was " normal " to have my enraged mother physically get

up to within an inch of my face, clamp my arms in a bruising grip and literally

scream verbal abuse at me, slap me, and even hit with a belt for making

mistakes, and for not doing things " perfectly. " I thought it was " normal " for

my mother to be just happy one minute, and then suddenly turn on me for

inexplicable reasons with red-faced, spittle-flying rage the next minute. But I

learned over time, and through being exposed to mentally healthy people, that

such behaviors were actually quite abnormal, brutal, sadistic, and abusive. I

worried that I might be just like my mother, but I had the ability to perceive

and care that if I acted like my mother did: demanding, controlling,

perfectionistic, raging, that it hurt people's feelings. I knew that I did NOT

want to be like her; I wanted very badly to not be like my mother in any way.

So I had to work hard to get rid of a lot of " flea " behaviors.

If you have the ability to reflect objectively on your own behaviors, if you

have the ability to achieve personal insight, if you can accept that yes, you

sometimes say and do bad or hurtful things but you are remorseful about it

(instead of feeling justified and entitled to do or say such things), if you

want to make positive changes in your behaviors, and learn to moderate your

unwanted, negative, counterproductive, impulsive reactions... if you have these

qualities, then you have the potential to heal and become more mentally healthy.

The ability to accept personal responsibility for our own actions, plus wanting

to improve our negative, counterproductive behaviors, are two huge factors in

being able to benefit from therapy and actually achieve such changes.

I usually offer a disclaimer that if you have been diagnosed with bpd, you will

probably find most of the posts here very triggering and upsetting instead of

helpful and healing, because this Group is one of the very few places for those

who were abused as children and as adults by their bpd parents to freely and

openly vent their hurt, to express their anger at being abused and mistreated,

and this valid anger is mostly directed at the bpd parent(s) who abused them,

and/or at their enmeshed, enabling, co-depenent parent.

The anger and hurt expressed here would naturally feel very invalidating,

hostile, unsupportive and like a personal attack to someone who has bpd.

So, you make that determination.

There are websites and support groups like this one that are specifically for

those who have borderline pd, and are focused on helping those with bpd on their

journey toward mental health.

-Annie

>

> Whew!

>

> I am 1/2-way through the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and everything is

> swimming in my head, and I poked around this specific list on Yahoo -- lots

> to jump into (and I'll never keep all of the abbreviations straight).

>

> But -- about me -- I'm male, 49, in my second marriage and struggling a lot

> in close family/intimate relationships.

>

> I have been on a personal journey for around a year now of working on

> myself, dealing with what I have found out are the affects of having

> alcoholics for parents and my fitting many of the ACoA (Adult Children of

> Alcoholics) characteristics and having been very co-dependent with my

> mother (deceased of Alzheimer's 9 years ago). She was the " emotional "

> alcoholic while my dad was the " functional " alcoholic and I hadn't even

> thought of him as an alcoholic up until I started working through these

> things. They divorced (finally, after three years of on/off separation)

> when I was 9 -- my dad finally couldn't take taking care of my mother

> anymore -- but in actuality I had been in her custody during the separation

> period and then after the divorce. I was typically late for school most

> days because I was getting her up and sober enough for her to make it to

> her teaching job. I took care of her, I was her confidant, I lived, and

> loved her, through all her ups and downs. After a few years of this my dad

> got custody because my own life and schoolwork were suffering. But for the

> rest of her life, up until my first marriage, I still was the one who

> sobered her up on Sundays and was a nervous wreck that she'd make it

> through the week.

>

> Well, in reading the BPD characteristics I realize that she had the

> majority of them, and they intensified as her marriage to my father went on

> -- things had been much better for her and them before my sister (5 years

> older than I am) and I came along. And my dad fits a lot of the non-BP

> spouse traits -- trying to deal with it, but eventually withdrawing (his

> drinking) and then in a burst of " strength " he truly left.

>

> Well, here's my big question -- as I have been reading the SWOE book (did I

> get that right?) I see a lot of the BPD characteristics in me -- which also

> line up well with being an ACoA and codependent. So -- would it make sense

> that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

> would contribute to me being a BP?

>

> (And if I am a BP as well as an adult child of a BP, can I stay on the

> list????)

>

> Thank you all for your views!

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pretty much, what Annie said.

I always think about the recovery process of being a KO (kid of a BPD) as

rooting out bad behaviours using a pen light. You find one, resolve it and

forgive yourself and change your behavior in that area, then you find another

and do the work on that one. Each time using it as an opportunity to develope

healthy relational habits. There are lots of negative behaviors that we pick up

from our upbringing and thank heavens that no one shines a spotlight on all of

them at once or it would be overwhelming!

C

> >

> > Whew!

> >

> > I am 1/2-way through the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and everything is

> > swimming in my head, and I poked around this specific list on Yahoo -- lots

> > to jump into (and I'll never keep all of the abbreviations straight).

> >

> > But -- about me -- I'm male, 49, in my second marriage and struggling a lot

> > in close family/intimate relationships.

> >

> > I have been on a personal journey for around a year now of working on

> > myself, dealing with what I have found out are the affects of having

> > alcoholics for parents and my fitting many of the ACoA (Adult Children of

> > Alcoholics) characteristics and having been very co-dependent with my

> > mother (deceased of Alzheimer's 9 years ago). She was the " emotional "

> > alcoholic while my dad was the " functional " alcoholic and I hadn't even

> > thought of him as an alcoholic up until I started working through these

> > things. They divorced (finally, after three years of on/off separation)

> > when I was 9 -- my dad finally couldn't take taking care of my mother

> > anymore -- but in actuality I had been in her custody during the separation

> > period and then after the divorce. I was typically late for school most

> > days because I was getting her up and sober enough for her to make it to

> > her teaching job. I took care of her, I was her confidant, I lived, and

> > loved her, through all her ups and downs. After a few years of this my dad

> > got custody because my own life and schoolwork were suffering. But for the

> > rest of her life, up until my first marriage, I still was the one who

> > sobered her up on Sundays and was a nervous wreck that she'd make it

> > through the week.

> >

> > Well, in reading the BPD characteristics I realize that she had the

> > majority of them, and they intensified as her marriage to my father went on

> > -- things had been much better for her and them before my sister (5 years

> > older than I am) and I came along. And my dad fits a lot of the non-BP

> > spouse traits -- trying to deal with it, but eventually withdrawing (his

> > drinking) and then in a burst of " strength " he truly left.

> >

> > Well, here's my big question -- as I have been reading the SWOE book (did I

> > get that right?) I see a lot of the BPD characteristics in me -- which also

> > line up well with being an ACoA and codependent. So -- would it make sense

> > that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

> > would contribute to me being a BP?

> >

> > (And if I am a BP as well as an adult child of a BP, can I stay on the

> > list????)

> >

> > Thank you all for your views!

> >

> > Dana

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm in the same situation... I believe my mother is bpd/alcoholic and my father

is a functioning alcoholic... I am seeing a therapist for bpd but after reading

one of the responses on your post... I'm starting to wonder if I have the " flea "

thing... Because I've ALWAYS known I don't want to be like my mom and feel

guilty for how I sometimes behave... What I struggle with most is having

relationships of any kind and being able to trust and connect with another

person.. I think you can benefit from this group and it's all about support...

Not " fitting in " :-) welcome!!

Eden

>

> Whew!

>

> I am 1/2-way through the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and everything is

> swimming in my head, and I poked around this specific list on Yahoo -- lots

> to jump into (and I'll never keep all of the abbreviations straight).

>

> But -- about me -- I'm male, 49, in my second marriage and struggling a lot

> in close family/intimate relationships.

>

> I have been on a personal journey for around a year now of working on

> myself, dealing with what I have found out are the affects of having

> alcoholics for parents and my fitting many of the ACoA (Adult Children of

> Alcoholics) characteristics and having been very co-dependent with my

> mother (deceased of Alzheimer's 9 years ago). She was the " emotional "

> alcoholic while my dad was the " functional " alcoholic and I hadn't even

> thought of him as an alcoholic up until I started working through these

> things. They divorced (finally, after three years of on/off separation)

> when I was 9 -- my dad finally couldn't take taking care of my mother

> anymore -- but in actuality I had been in her custody during the separation

> period and then after the divorce. I was typically late for school most

> days because I was getting her up and sober enough for her to make it to

> her teaching job. I took care of her, I was her confidant, I lived, and

> loved her, through all her ups and downs. After a few years of this my dad

> got custody because my own life and schoolwork were suffering. But for the

> rest of her life, up until my first marriage, I still was the one who

> sobered her up on Sundays and was a nervous wreck that she'd make it

> through the week.

>

> Well, in reading the BPD characteristics I realize that she had the

> majority of them, and they intensified as her marriage to my father went on

> -- things had been much better for her and them before my sister (5 years

> older than I am) and I came along. And my dad fits a lot of the non-BP

> spouse traits -- trying to deal with it, but eventually withdrawing (his

> drinking) and then in a burst of " strength " he truly left.

>

> Well, here's my big question -- as I have been reading the SWOE book (did I

> get that right?) I see a lot of the BPD characteristics in me -- which also

> line up well with being an ACoA and codependent. So -- would it make sense

> that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

> would contribute to me being a BP?

>

> (And if I am a BP as well as an adult child of a BP, can I stay on the

> list????)

>

> Thank you all for your views!

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dana, I am not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, just a child of

personality-disordered parents with a lot of practical experience, reading and

therapy under my belt. Your question, (and I'll repeat it here) is a key

indicator to your mental health and wellbeing:

" So -- would it make sense

that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

would contribute to me being a BP? "

Asking this question says a lot about you. It shows that your reading and ACA

involvement are causing you to QUESTION YOURSELF. This is outside the ability or

thought process of most Borderline or Narcissistic peronality-disordered people.

Lots of us KOs, (put me first on the list, please) have BP tendencies or habits.

but they are bad habits that can be changed, transformed and abandoned. (We call

them " fleas " in our lingo.) The true BPD or NPD finds it impossible to change,

in fact, they can't even grasp the concept of changing. They feel all their

problems reside outside themselves, particularly in other people, and the world

can be reordered to change itself according to their wishes and needs, at any

and all cost.

Thank you for joining us, being honest, and asking questions. I'm glad you are

here.

Sincerely,

AFB

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to add another reassuring voice. The fact that you are even concerned

that you might have BPD tells me that you most likely don't. The fact that you

recognize behaviors you exhibit that aren't normal, is HUGE. Someone with BPD

can't see that.

I want to validate you and tell you that as a KO, feeling like you might have

BPD is very normal for our " species " . I, too, went through a period where I

thought I might also have it, but I was able to recognize those fleas and change

them almost immediately by recognizing them and telling myself how I would now

deal with those situations. My nada can't do that. The emotional capacity to

confront oneself and change does not exist for her, which is truly sad.

Welcome to the forum, although I'm sorry to add another to our ranks. But know

that you are not alone, in your experiences, your fleas, and your grief. We all

know what you must be feeling, and that it is real, not imagined, and that you

have suffered very real pain.

We are here for you.

>

> Whew!

>

> I am 1/2-way through the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and everything is

> swimming in my head, and I poked around this specific list on Yahoo -- lots

> to jump into (and I'll never keep all of the abbreviations straight).

>

> But -- about me -- I'm male, 49, in my second marriage and struggling a lot

> in close family/intimate relationships.

>

> I have been on a personal journey for around a year now of working on

> myself, dealing with what I have found out are the affects of having

> alcoholics for parents and my fitting many of the ACoA (Adult Children of

> Alcoholics) characteristics and having been very co-dependent with my

> mother (deceased of Alzheimer's 9 years ago). She was the " emotional "

> alcoholic while my dad was the " functional " alcoholic and I hadn't even

> thought of him as an alcoholic up until I started working through these

> things. They divorced (finally, after three years of on/off separation)

> when I was 9 -- my dad finally couldn't take taking care of my mother

> anymore -- but in actuality I had been in her custody during the separation

> period and then after the divorce. I was typically late for school most

> days because I was getting her up and sober enough for her to make it to

> her teaching job. I took care of her, I was her confidant, I lived, and

> loved her, through all her ups and downs. After a few years of this my dad

> got custody because my own life and schoolwork were suffering. But for the

> rest of her life, up until my first marriage, I still was the one who

> sobered her up on Sundays and was a nervous wreck that she'd make it

> through the week.

>

> Well, in reading the BPD characteristics I realize that she had the

> majority of them, and they intensified as her marriage to my father went on

> -- things had been much better for her and them before my sister (5 years

> older than I am) and I came along. And my dad fits a lot of the non-BP

> spouse traits -- trying to deal with it, but eventually withdrawing (his

> drinking) and then in a burst of " strength " he truly left.

>

> Well, here's my big question -- as I have been reading the SWOE book (did I

> get that right?) I see a lot of the BPD characteristics in me -- which also

> line up well with being an ACoA and codependent. So -- would it make sense

> that through such an upbringing (and you got the very-abridged version!)

> would contribute to me being a BP?

>

> (And if I am a BP as well as an adult child of a BP, can I stay on the

> list????)

>

> Thank you all for your views!

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dana!

I'm going to echo a lot of what has all ready been said. I agree that

the fact you are questioning if you have BPD pretty much speaks

volumes that you likely DO NOT. Like many others here have said,

" fleas " are very common for us KOs. (Kids Of [bPD parents]). Been

there, done that, got the flea bites! So I know where you're coming

from.

I always said I could never loan out my copy of SWOE or Understanding

the Borderline Mother because I have written so many notes in the

margins including things like " me? " . Now that I've got some good

healing under my belt, I know those were definitely fleas!

As CmeBeFree mentioned (and I like that analogy), it's like looking

with a pen light. Find a flea, and work to squash it! Then look for

another.

I don't know if you are talking to a therapist yourself, but it's

something I personally find to be EXTREMELY helpful in that personal

journey for self improvement & understanding! It sounds to me like

you are very self aware and that you really do want to help yourself.

So if it's something that's practical for you financially, etc... I

would recommend finding a therapist (or a T as we call them here),

particularly one who knows about PTSD and personality disorders.

Best of luck to you & welcome to the group =)

Mia

[Guest guest]

Thank you to all who replied -- that helps in knowing that I am most likely

do not have BPD myself but that I have been dealing with a pretty heavy

flea infestation for the last 40 years!

I have just started seeing a counselor and will bring these things to his

attention.

The biggest impact of these fleas has been on my close family relationships

-- my first marriage and the two kids from that and my current marriage and

the six kids in that (four stepsons and two daughters from the current

marriage).

I was very " removed " emotionally in my first marriage, in what now seems to

have been self-protection. And in my second marriage, to the woman who

truly knew a lot more of me emotionally, I found it harder and harder to be

transparent, and un-invested myself more and more. Now I have been

separated for almost six months. My current wife knows how open and deep I

can be when I feel " safe " -- but in our marriage, with all of the kids,

ex-spouses, and life crowding in, I felt less and less safe, and less and

less trusting. I think that I also only had one family/marriage experience

to look back on -- where I grew up -- where my mother (BP) pulled away from

her marriage and many of her family responsibilities into drinking and

herself, my teenage sister couldn't handle it and ran away, and my dad

couldn't fix it so he left. That left me taking care of my mom (starting

at age 9) and only getting that example of a marriage. So I think that in

my current marriage (just over 11 years), there was some sort of hidden

timer inside of me counting down the years/months/days until the marriage

fell apart. The bad thing is that I really made it fall apart since I

pulled away more and more in self-protection of the " inevitable " outcome.

I've tried to come to peace a lot with the memory of my mom (she died from

Alzheimer's 9 years ago) and how my life has been affected by that. I did

have about 6 years of counseling for PTSD and anger issues that were rooted

in mostly anger at my mom which I had transferred to my father, since I had

been the caretaker of my mom, and my dad had left, I had to keep her as the

total victim in my eyes. The counseling did help me get things in a more

realistic perspective and diffuse a bunch of the anger. But now it seems

that these learned behaviors of what a marriage is, and emotional escape

options, are clobbering my marriage.

When I finish the SWOE book I am going to give it to my wife to read as I

think that it will help her understand my background a lot better and help

in some ways that she can deal with me and not just be disappointed/hurt

and angry that I have not turned out to be the man that she had known and

hoped would continue in our marriage. And yes, I want to " squash those

fleas " as best I can to aid in repairing the marriage.

I hate to say it, but it's a blessing that my mom isn't here any more,

because I think that I wouldn't have been able to stumble upon the causes

of my problems to start working on them, if I were still wrapped up in

taking care of my mom.

Thanks for listening!

Dana

[Guest guest]

Your ability to reflect objectively about yourself, your willingness to take

responsibility for your own anger issues and other behaviors and getting therapy

as well, speaks volumes in my opinion and bodes really well for a good outcome

for you.

Your willingness to learn to moderate and redirect your anger in healthy ways

will mean so very much to your children, who need you to be as emotionally

stable, emotionally available, empathetic, and nurturing to them as you can be.

It really is all about the kids and their needs, once you become a parent.

Those with Cluster B pds find it difficult if not impossible to put their

children's needs first, because its always, Always, ALWAYS only about the pd

individual, in their minds. And bpd/npd parents seem unable to even relate to

their children as individual, separate, unique human beings; instead the pd

parent tends to assign their child a role to play, that (again! surprise,

surprise!!) is only about filling the pd parent's needs: their vast, empty,

un-fillable black hole of need.

Just like the history you describe with your mother ( and my guess is that

you're describing either borderline pd or perhaps dependent pd): Your mother

(or " nada " , for " not a mom " ) turned you into her emotional caretaker/substitute

" spouse " in a complete reversal and betrayal of parental responsibility. That

is such an abusive thing to do to one's own child.

Besides " Stop Walking On Eggshells " , I highly recommend " Understanding The

Borderline Mother " , which also describes the effect bpd parenting has on the

children in each sub-type of bpd mother, and which also describes the kinds of

men each sub-type tends to attract and marry. Also, other members here have

highly recommended " Surviving A Borderline Parent. "

Knowledge is power, and empowering. So, you've found a bunch of other people

who are on this journey to greater mental health, greater peace and serenity

with you (and your kids.)

-Annie

>

> Thank you to all who replied -- that helps in knowing that I am most likely

> do not have BPD myself but that I have been dealing with a pretty heavy

> flea infestation for the last 40 years!

>

> I have just started seeing a counselor and will bring these things to his

> attention.

>

> The biggest impact of these fleas has been on my close family relationships

> -- my first marriage and the two kids from that and my current marriage and

> the six kids in that (four stepsons and two daughters from the current

> marriage).

>

> I was very " removed " emotionally in my first marriage, in what now seems to

> have been self-protection. And in my second marriage, to the woman who

> truly knew a lot more of me emotionally, I found it harder and harder to be

> transparent, and un-invested myself more and more. Now I have been

> separated for almost six months. My current wife knows how open and deep I

> can be when I feel " safe " -- but in our marriage, with all of the kids,

> ex-spouses, and life crowding in, I felt less and less safe, and less and

> less trusting. I think that I also only had one family/marriage experience

> to look back on -- where I grew up -- where my mother (BP) pulled away from

> her marriage and many of her family responsibilities into drinking and

> herself, my teenage sister couldn't handle it and ran away, and my dad

> couldn't fix it so he left. That left me taking care of my mom (starting

> at age 9) and only getting that example of a marriage. So I think that in

> my current marriage (just over 11 years), there was some sort of hidden

> timer inside of me counting down the years/months/days until the marriage

> fell apart. The bad thing is that I really made it fall apart since I

> pulled away more and more in self-protection of the " inevitable " outcome.

>

> I've tried to come to peace a lot with the memory of my mom (she died from

> Alzheimer's 9 years ago) and how my life has been affected by that. I did

> have about 6 years of counseling for PTSD and anger issues that were rooted

> in mostly anger at my mom which I had transferred to my father, since I had

> been the caretaker of my mom, and my dad had left, I had to keep her as the

> total victim in my eyes. The counseling did help me get things in a more

> realistic perspective and diffuse a bunch of the anger. But now it seems

> that these learned behaviors of what a marriage is, and emotional escape

> options, are clobbering my marriage.

>

> When I finish the SWOE book I am going to give it to my wife to read as I

> think that it will help her understand my background a lot better and help

> in some ways that she can deal with me and not just be disappointed/hurt

> and angry that I have not turned out to be the man that she had known and

> hoped would continue in our marriage. And yes, I want to " squash those

> fleas " as best I can to aid in repairing the marriage.

>

> I hate to say it, but it's a blessing that my mom isn't here any more,

> because I think that I wouldn't have been able to stumble upon the causes

> of my problems to start working on them, if I were still wrapped up in

> taking care of my mom.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you. (Should I clip off the far-bottom original messages so that

these posts do not get too huge?)

Yes, I have always been able to relate well to little kids, and my own

children when they were young -- I could engage in games and their level of

play very well. But as they have grown older I am adrift when it comes to

emotional nurturing/connection with them. I have two teenage daughters

from my first marriage (15 and 17) and two younger daughters from my

current marriage (6 and 9), and then four stepsons (17, 19, 23 and 25) in

my current marriage. So, I hope to be able to be a better father to them.

I also hope that this will improve my relationship with my wife. We've

been separated for almost 6 months now, and she's very wary of my problems

-- I have always provided for the family, done " things " for the family, but

in times of stress and when she and I would have difficulties getting

along, I would retreat emotionally (and physically, even within the house)

-- which certainly made her feel disappointed, hurt and angry. She knows

that I am working on my issues, but she's pretty burned out after 11 years

of marriage.

Thank you for the encouragement (not only to me, but to others on the list)

-- and the insights that are shared here.

First stop (Internet) -- the local libraries to see if they have those

books!

Dana

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 12:37 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Your ability to reflect objectively about yourself, your willingness to

> take responsibility for your own anger issues and other behaviors and

> getting therapy as well, speaks volumes in my opinion and bodes really well

> for a good outcome for you.

>

> Your willingness to learn to moderate and redirect your anger in healthy

> ways will mean so very much to your children, who need you to be as

> emotionally stable, emotionally available, empathetic, and nurturing to

> them as you can be.

>

> It really is all about the kids and their needs, once you become a parent.

> Those with Cluster B pds find it difficult if not impossible to put their

> children's needs first, because its always, Always, ALWAYS only about the

> pd individual, in their minds. And bpd/npd parents seem unable to even

> relate to their children as individual, separate, unique human beings;

> instead the pd parent tends to assign their child a role to play, that

> (again! surprise, surprise!!) is only about filling the pd parent's needs:

> their vast, empty, un-fillable black hole of need.

>

> Just like the history you describe with your mother ( and my guess is that

> you're describing either borderline pd or perhaps dependent pd): Your

> mother (or " nada " , for " not a mom " ) turned you into her emotional

> caretaker/substitute " spouse " in a complete reversal and betrayal of

> parental responsibility. That is such an abusive thing to do to one's own

> child.

>

> Besides " Stop Walking On Eggshells " , I highly recommend " Understanding The

> Borderline Mother " , which also describes the effect bpd parenting has on

> the children in each sub-type of bpd mother, and which also describes the

> kinds of men each sub-type tends to attract and marry. Also, other members

> here have highly recommended " Surviving A Borderline Parent. "

>

> Knowledge is power, and empowering. So, you've found a bunch of other

> people who are on this journey to greater mental health, greater peace and

> serenity with you (and your kids.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Thank you to all who replied -- that helps in knowing that I am most

> likely

> > do not have BPD myself but that I have been dealing with a pretty heavy

> > flea infestation for the last 40 years!

> >

> > I have just started seeing a counselor and will bring these things to his

> > attention.

> >

> > The biggest impact of these fleas has been on my close family

> relationships

> > -- my first marriage and the two kids from that and my current marriage

> and

> > the six kids in that (four stepsons and two daughters from the current

> > marriage).

> >

> > I was very " removed " emotionally in my first marriage, in what now seems

> to

> > have been self-protection. And in my second marriage, to the woman who

> > truly knew a lot more of me emotionally, I found it harder and harder to

> be

> > transparent, and un-invested myself more and more. Now I have been

> > separated for almost six months. My current wife knows how open and deep

> I

> > can be when I feel " safe " -- but in our marriage, with all of the kids,

> > ex-spouses, and life crowding in, I felt less and less safe, and less and

> > less trusting. I think that I also only had one family/marriage

> experience

> > to look back on -- where I grew up -- where my mother (BP) pulled away

> from

> > her marriage and many of her family responsibilities into drinking and

> > herself, my teenage sister couldn't handle it and ran away, and my dad

> > couldn't fix it so he left. That left me taking care of my mom (starting

> > at age 9) and only getting that example of a marriage. So I think that in

> > my current marriage (just over 11 years), there was some sort of hidden

> > timer inside of me counting down the years/months/days until the marriage

> > fell apart. The bad thing is that I really made it fall apart since I

> > pulled away more and more in self-protection of the " inevitable " outcome.

> >

> > I've tried to come to peace a lot with the memory of my mom (she died

> from

> > Alzheimer's 9 years ago) and how my life has been affected by that. I did

> > have about 6 years of counseling for PTSD and anger issues that were

> rooted

> > in mostly anger at my mom which I had transferred to my father, since I

> had

> > been the caretaker of my mom, and my dad had left, I had to keep her as

> the

> > total victim in my eyes. The counseling did help me get things in a more

> > realistic perspective and diffuse a bunch of the anger. But now it seems

> > that these learned behaviors of what a marriage is, and emotional escape

> > options, are clobbering my marriage.

> >

> > When I finish the SWOE book I am going to give it to my wife to read as I

> > think that it will help her understand my background a lot better and

> help

> > in some ways that she can deal with me and not just be disappointed/hurt

> > and angry that I have not turned out to be the man that she had known and

> > hoped would continue in our marriage. And yes, I want to " squash those

> > fleas " as best I can to aid in repairing the marriage.

> >

> > I hate to say it, but it's a blessing that my mom isn't here any more,

> > because I think that I wouldn't have been able to stumble upon the causes

> > of my problems to start working on them, if I were still wrapped up in

> > taking care of my mom.

> >

> > Thanks for listening!

> >

> > Dana

> >

> >

> >