Is this nada denial?

[Guest guest]

At the funeral, when the possibility that nada was going to show up was going

around, I heard a lot of excuses from nada through family members that what

happened last Christmas was the result of various medications badly interacting.

Apparently she has told people she had a breakdown because of her medications,

and that she was on new medication now and in therapy. She has been reassuring

this to other people as if to excuse her behavior and explain what has happened

between us.

(On a side note, my HPD uncle says she has told him what happened and that she

didn't lie at all and told him exactly what I told him. Except that I NEVER TOLD

HIM ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT TO BUTT OUT. I love have lying relatives. He lies

about everything, particularly about having conversations with people and what

they've told him. People regularly forget about this, even myself, and have to

be reminded. My poor stepmom and I kept hearing crap from him all week, and we

had to keep reminding each other that the likelihood that anything he said

wasn't wildly divergent from the truth was small.)

So everyone keeps coming to me telling me this crap about nada being in therapy

and working on herself. And that's great, BUT...all she has done the past year

is stalk me, send me inappropriate love notes, try and call me and act like

nothing has happened. Seriously, all she would have to do to get an initial

conversation is to send me a note saying that she was sorry for what happened

and would like to talk. That at least would tell me that she could acknowledge

that something happened. I'm not saying we would have a relationship again. But

at least for the sake of the family and family events, I could get to a place

where her presence wouldn't bother me. Maybe. I'm not even sure I ever want

contact again. I know that I don't love her. Her abuse goes way far beyond what

happened last year (you all know this). But I feel like if she expressed she

wanted to talk about it, I could get to a place that would be okay for me and

put some peace in the family.

For myself, I don't really care to have any relationship with her or talk to her

ever again. And I know I shouldn't do anything I don't want, but I do see the

strain that the complete NC has on my family. And, if it were possible, and

under my terms, I could foresee that I could handle a very low low low LC, where

it was confined to the very intermittent family occasions such as weddings and

funerals and possibly exchanging holiday/birthday calls for politeness' sake. I

would not want to speak with her on any kind of regular basis. Or ever visit her

or have her visit me. I do not want a personal relationship with her. I guess

I'm saying I could treat her like a distant annoying relative (and I have plenty

of those that I deal with).

So here's my question, am I being hoovered or FOGed? Certainly at the funeral I

was being hoovered, and I am not at all considering initiating contact with her.

What I am saying is that if she were to apologize and reach out to discuss the

incident, I could consider this distant family relation idea.

What do you all think? In my mind, I'm just realizing that the possibility of

never having to deal with her again is low. I suppose I could just say that I

don't care if she's at family stuff, but I will not speak to her and if she

approaches me, I will leave.

[Guest guest]

It sounds like you are working towards figuring out what you are willing and

able to tolerate RE your nada, and that's a good thing.

Like you, I am interpreting the indirect messages that you're getting from your

nada via your other relatives as nada trying to wriggle her way out of taking

any responsibility for her negative, hurtful behaviors; she's saying that it was

the meds that caused her to behave badly.

If what happened at Christmas had been an isolated incident and completely out

of character for your mother/nada I would tend to cut nada a break and say that

it was perhaps a " bad reaction " to a new medication, but if your nada's horrible

behavior was just another incident in a long-established pattern of abusive,

ugly incidents inflicted on you, then, no... unfortunately that was not due to

" new meds, " that's just the way nada is: that's the way those with bpd behave.

I agree with you. If your nada at some point becomes willing to accept

responsibility for her bad treatment of you, if she apologizes and you feel she

is showing true remorse, then you might consider agreeing to the limited contact

idea and see her at family gatherings only.

But if your nada is stuck in denial and continues to blame you for " making " her

act out and say ugly, mean, abusive things to you, then, perhaps its not a good

time to resume even limited contact.

You are the only one who can make this call, for yourself, based on your own

individual situation, your feelings, and what you can and can't tolerate. My

best wishes to you as you work through this. Its never easy, is it.

-Annie

>

> At the funeral, when the possibility that nada was going to show up was going

around, I heard a lot of excuses from nada through family members that what

happened last Christmas was the result of various medications badly interacting.

Apparently she has told people she had a breakdown because of her medications,

and that she was on new medication now and in therapy. She has been reassuring

this to other people as if to excuse her behavior and explain what has happened

between us.

>

> (On a side note, my HPD uncle says she has told him what happened and that she

didn't lie at all and told him exactly what I told him. Except that I NEVER TOLD

HIM ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT TO BUTT OUT. I love have lying relatives. He lies

about everything, particularly about having conversations with people and what

they've told him. People regularly forget about this, even myself, and have to

be reminded. My poor stepmom and I kept hearing crap from him all week, and we

had to keep reminding each other that the likelihood that anything he said

wasn't wildly divergent from the truth was small.)

>

> So everyone keeps coming to me telling me this crap about nada being in

therapy and working on herself. And that's great, BUT...all she has done the

past year is stalk me, send me inappropriate love notes, try and call me and act

like nothing has happened. Seriously, all she would have to do to get an initial

conversation is to send me a note saying that she was sorry for what happened

and would like to talk. That at least would tell me that she could acknowledge

that something happened. I'm not saying we would have a relationship again. But

at least for the sake of the family and family events, I could get to a place

where her presence wouldn't bother me. Maybe. I'm not even sure I ever want

contact again. I know that I don't love her. Her abuse goes way far beyond what

happened last year (you all know this). But I feel like if she expressed she

wanted to talk about it, I could get to a place that would be okay for me and

put some peace in the family.

>

> For myself, I don't really care to have any relationship with her or talk to

her ever again. And I know I shouldn't do anything I don't want, but I do see

the strain that the complete NC has on my family. And, if it were possible, and

under my terms, I could foresee that I could handle a very low low low LC, where

it was confined to the very intermittent family occasions such as weddings and

funerals and possibly exchanging holiday/birthday calls for politeness' sake. I

would not want to speak with her on any kind of regular basis. Or ever visit her

or have her visit me. I do not want a personal relationship with her. I guess

I'm saying I could treat her like a distant annoying relative (and I have plenty

of those that I deal with).

>

> So here's my question, am I being hoovered or FOGed? Certainly at the funeral

I was being hoovered, and I am not at all considering initiating contact with

her. What I am saying is that if she were to apologize and reach out to discuss

the incident, I could consider this distant family relation idea.

>

> What do you all think? In my mind, I'm just realizing that the possibility of

never having to deal with her again is low. I suppose I could just say that I

don't care if she's at family stuff, but I will not speak to her and if she

approaches me, I will leave.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, Annie, it is never easy. And I had established a while back that I never

wanted a relationship with her ever again. And I stand by that. But I do feel

like I could find a way to tolerate her in limited settings for the benefit of

my family. I know none of this is my fault, and I shouldn't feel responsible,

but at the funeral, everyone was making drama around this in my name, and I

wasn't even involved. Before I even knew about it, my dad and brothers were

talking about how to deal with nada and making this big deal about it. And my

dad was arguing with brada about letting me see the nephews, when I hadn't even

mentioned it. And then people have the gall to look at me and say " no drama,

please " , when I hadn't done anything.

Anyways, I probably won't be confronted with this situation again unless someone

dies or gets married. If my brother gets married, then I will attend and simply

avoid her. I am just not sure what I will do when she surely approaches me and

tries to hug me and talk to me. I think I will just be very cognizant and make

sure to walk away before she approaches me. Make sure I have my own vehicle and

route of escape to avoid her. Of course it's difficult to avoid someone when

that person wants to accost you, whereas if it was someone you had a mutual bad

relationship with, you both would simply avoid each other for the sake of not

ruining someone's wedding. I think at a funeral it would be much easier than at

a wedding.

The one thing is that I really don't want to cave or give in to any kind of low

contact if she hasn't shown any remorse, as you say, letting her off the hook

for her behavior and blame it on something else. Her medications may have had

some play in the incident, but I doubt it. Her husband told me she does that

regularly, and she did it my whole life growing up. It was not an isolated

incident. And all her suicide ideations and laying that on me? Right, it's just

your meds, nada.

> >

> > At the funeral, when the possibility that nada was going to show up was

going around, I heard a lot of excuses from nada through family members that

what happened last Christmas was the result of various medications badly

interacting. Apparently she has told people she had a breakdown because of her

medications, and that she was on new medication now and in therapy. She has been

reassuring this to other people as if to excuse her behavior and explain what

has happened between us.

> >

> > (On a side note, my HPD uncle says she has told him what happened and that

she didn't lie at all and told him exactly what I told him. Except that I NEVER

TOLD HIM ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT TO BUTT OUT. I love have lying relatives. He

lies about everything, particularly about having conversations with people and

what they've told him. People regularly forget about this, even myself, and have

to be reminded. My poor stepmom and I kept hearing crap from him all week, and

we had to keep reminding each other that the likelihood that anything he said

wasn't wildly divergent from the truth was small.)

> >

> > So everyone keeps coming to me telling me this crap about nada being in

therapy and working on herself. And that's great, BUT...all she has done the

past year is stalk me, send me inappropriate love notes, try and call me and act

like nothing has happened. Seriously, all she would have to do to get an initial

conversation is to send me a note saying that she was sorry for what happened

and would like to talk. That at least would tell me that she could acknowledge

that something happened. I'm not saying we would have a relationship again. But

at least for the sake of the family and family events, I could get to a place

where her presence wouldn't bother me. Maybe. I'm not even sure I ever want

contact again. I know that I don't love her. Her abuse goes way far beyond what

happened last year (you all know this). But I feel like if she expressed she

wanted to talk about it, I could get to a place that would be okay for me and

put some peace in the family.

> >

> > For myself, I don't really care to have any relationship with her or talk to

her ever again. And I know I shouldn't do anything I don't want, but I do see

the strain that the complete NC has on my family. And, if it were possible, and

under my terms, I could foresee that I could handle a very low low low LC, where

it was confined to the very intermittent family occasions such as weddings and

funerals and possibly exchanging holiday/birthday calls for politeness' sake. I

would not want to speak with her on any kind of regular basis. Or ever visit her

or have her visit me. I do not want a personal relationship with her. I guess

I'm saying I could treat her like a distant annoying relative (and I have plenty

of those that I deal with).

> >

> > So here's my question, am I being hoovered or FOGed? Certainly at the

funeral I was being hoovered, and I am not at all considering initiating contact

with her. What I am saying is that if she were to apologize and reach out to

discuss the incident, I could consider this distant family relation idea.

> >

> > What do you all think? In my mind, I'm just realizing that the possibility

of never having to deal with her again is low. I suppose I could just say that I

don't care if she's at family stuff, but I will not speak to her and if she

approaches me, I will leave.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here's an option to consider; maybe it would work better for you if you just saw

the individual relatives whose company you enjoy, that are mentally healthy and

nice, separately. See Cousin X and her family for dinner and a show, and see

Cousin Z for a family picnic outing, without Aunt Crazy or Uncle Delusional or

any of the other rather hostile and unsupportive relatives being included.

Maybe avoid the big family gatherings altogether, if you have more than just a

couple of other relatives who are just as weird, or nasty or unpleasant as nada

is. Only visit and have an individual relationship with the nice relatives, and

just send cards or gifts or flowers to the huge family gatherings instead of

attending.

I hope you can reach a point where nothing that your mean, crazy, hateful

relatives say to you or about you has any relevance to you; I hope you can reach

a state of complete indifference to their comments. Who cares what a crazy,

mean person thinks about you, anyway? I sure don't care, anymore.

(Fortunately, my only crazy, mean relative was my nada.)

Whatever works for you, works for you.

Thumb's up of encouragement from me.

-Annie

> > >

> > > At the funeral, when the possibility that nada was going to show up was

going around, I heard a lot of excuses from nada through family members that

what happened last Christmas was the result of various medications badly

interacting. Apparently she has told people she had a breakdown because of her

medications, and that she was on new medication now and in therapy. She has been

reassuring this to other people as if to excuse her behavior and explain what

has happened between us.

> > >

> > > (On a side note, my HPD uncle says she has told him what happened and that

she didn't lie at all and told him exactly what I told him. Except that I NEVER

TOLD HIM ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT TO BUTT OUT. I love have lying relatives. He

lies about everything, particularly about having conversations with people and

what they've told him. People regularly forget about this, even myself, and have

to be reminded. My poor stepmom and I kept hearing crap from him all week, and

we had to keep reminding each other that the likelihood that anything he said

wasn't wildly divergent from the truth was small.)

> > >

> > > So everyone keeps coming to me telling me this crap about nada being in

therapy and working on herself. And that's great, BUT...all she has done the

past year is stalk me, send me inappropriate love notes, try and call me and act

like nothing has happened. Seriously, all she would have to do to get an initial

conversation is to send me a note saying that she was sorry for what happened

and would like to talk. That at least would tell me that she could acknowledge

that something happened. I'm not saying we would have a relationship again. But

at least for the sake of the family and family events, I could get to a place

where her presence wouldn't bother me. Maybe. I'm not even sure I ever want

contact again. I know that I don't love her. Her abuse goes way far beyond what

happened last year (you all know this). But I feel like if she expressed she

wanted to talk about it, I could get to a place that would be okay for me and

put some peace in the family.

> > >

> > > For myself, I don't really care to have any relationship with her or talk

to her ever again. And I know I shouldn't do anything I don't want, but I do see

the strain that the complete NC has on my family. And, if it were possible, and

under my terms, I could foresee that I could handle a very low low low LC, where

it was confined to the very intermittent family occasions such as weddings and

funerals and possibly exchanging holiday/birthday calls for politeness' sake. I

would not want to speak with her on any kind of regular basis. Or ever visit her

or have her visit me. I do not want a personal relationship with her. I guess

I'm saying I could treat her like a distant annoying relative (and I have plenty

of those that I deal with).

> > >

> > > So here's my question, am I being hoovered or FOGed? Certainly at the

funeral I was being hoovered, and I am not at all considering initiating contact

with her. What I am saying is that if she were to apologize and reach out to

discuss the incident, I could consider this distant family relation idea.

> > >

> > > What do you all think? In my mind, I'm just realizing that the possibility

of never having to deal with her again is low. I suppose I could just say that I

don't care if she's at family stuff, but I will not speak to her and if she

approaches me, I will leave.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>