we need a book on aging BPD and end of life

[Guest guest]

I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD. wrote about wondering if her

grandmother was trying to commit suicide by not having a UTI cared for properly.

We have had my 88 year old Fada with us for the last three years and have

finally had to put him in nursing home care. He refuses to move. I have had to

put a wheelchair in front of his bed, he would stand up and feign falling two or

three times then sit in the wheelchair, then I would have to back the wheelchair

up about 6 feet, so I could put him in front of the potty chair which was also

right next to his bed and then he would stand up and turn around and sit on the

potty chair, also feigning more attempts at falling and helplessness. All he had

to do was get out of bed and turn right and take two steps to the potty chair

but noooooooo... I had to wheel him to it. My father refuses to move and in so

doing he is causing all of his bodily systems to shut down and fail. I don't

think he's committing suicide, I think he is trying to get back to the place in

time in infancy or early childhood when he first felt abandoned. I think he

wants to reach that helpless state and then we will all have to take care of him

just like a baby and somewhere deep in his broken heart, mind and psyche he

thinks that will replace what he didn't get the first time. That's my theory. I

would hope that some physicians and psychologists would collaborate with Randi

and take their case studies and our stories and look for common threads of BPD

behavior in aging that lead to health complications that affect end of life.

I would certainly be willing to share our story. My husband is a physician

himself and at first he had never seen anything like Dad, but now he is seeing

more old people who refuse to move. As our population ages and we have the

medical technology available to keep people alive into their 80's and 90's we

are going to see more aging BPD's, and as they age their behabior becomes more

bizarre. A lot of people in our population used to die well before 80 by heart

attack or stroke and now we can keep these people alive. We need a study, or a

book or something on aging BPD's and their insistence on wallowing in

helplessness as they age. When Fada moved in he walked with a walker but was

capable of being totally independent. Yet he insisted on diapers when he didn't

need them, he wanted me to bathe him when he could get in the shower, he wanted

his fingernails cut and his face shaved and his teeth brushed by me or someone

else when he could do these things for himself. We made the mistake of hiring in

home care (to give me LC in my own home) and in the space of a month they were

doing all of these things for him, even though I had said keep him as

independent as possible. Each day he did less and less until the muscles in his

legs atrophied and he could barely walk at all. I wish I had known then what I

know now, but we didn't even get a BPD diagnosis until Dad had lived with us for

16 months. The last three years have been a nightmare and a prison. The one

thing Fada failed to do was break up my marriage, and I know he had tried,he

wanted all of my attention for him alone. His presence only made my husband and

I closer and my husband came between me and Fada again and again and protected

me. When fada had alienated all of the in home health care workers my husband

bathed fada and changed his diaper because he said fada's insistence that I do

those things, was perverse, creepy, and almost incestuous. My husband and I used

to joke about going out for bread and milk and not coming back, but we did. Fada

is in the hospital and moving to nursing home care this week and it has been a

long time coming.

The only thing now is he will be in a public place where he can deride me and my

husband's good name. I know I shouldn't care what people think but he could hurt

my husband's practice and in this economy we need all the business we can

muster. He will pull the passive aggressive waif act and there will be people

who will believe him and think I am Satan. I am so sick of him, I am barely

going to be able to visit him in the nursing home. He's been in the hospital

since Wednesday and I have only gone once.

I think KO's and the medical community need a book on BPD and end of life.

Randi, please add it to your list, or if your list is too long maybe one of your

colleagues can. I certainly see common threads in our stories posted here, and

I just wish someone with the right credentials would look at these stories and

help us name behaviors that are really BPD being masked as illness and help us

sort things through. I don't think fada will live for more than six months I'm

just dreading what he's going to put me through for the next six months. And I

know I shouldn't care what other people think but fada's lies can hurt my

husband's practice. I just hope most of the nursing home staff will learn to see

through him quickly.

He can't be the first BPD to be wheeled through their doors! Having a book on

aging and end of life would really help right now.

Respectfully,

Kay

[Guest guest]

((((( Kay)))))

I'm so sorry you had to endure that abusive treatment from your elderly bpd

fada, who seemed to enjoy affecting deliberate infantile behavior, forcing you

to physically care for his personal hygiene needs. I agree: his insistence on

you, his daughter, tending to his personal care needs was creepy and a form of

incest. I'm SO glad for you that you finally arranged for fada to be relocated

to a nursing home so you don't have to be subjected to that anymore. Ew.

Please don't worry and clear your mind of any anxiety that your fada has the

power to harm your husband's medical practice by bad-mouthing him.

Nursing home workers, nurses, therapists, etc., have both training and

experience with senile dementia and understand that patients who develop it

become increasingly paranoid and delusional, and often make claims of abuse and

mistreatment against their care-givers, claim that their children or

grandchildren or nurses are stealing from them or beating them, or trying to

poison them. They have training to manage the care of dementia patients without

taking their delusional, paranoid accusations personally, or seriously.

My bpd/npd mother developed dementia, and grew increasingly certain that Sister

was trying to steal her money (delusional thinking, paranoia) then nada grew to

believe that " circus people " were coming into her home through the walls and

stealing her valuables (active hallucinations.) When nada was relocated to an

assisted living residence with an Alzheimer's unit, she was put on

anti-hallucinogenic medication but was still convinced that her doctors, nurses

and care-givers (and Sister and I) were trying to poison her.

Its sad, really. But it also feels like a stab in the heart to the remaining

loved ones, to be falsely accused like that by the dementia patient. Even when

you KNOW they are no longer rational or sane, it still hurts.

In a way, my Sister and I had been " inoculated " against extreme grief at being

falsely accused of malevolent things by our nada, as nada had had delusional and

paranoid thinking in a milder form for pretty much my whole life. Nada's

dementia seemed to me to just be her regular bpd personality traits and

behaviors, just ramped up to full speed with the brakes gone.

I think it would be a very interesting study to correlate from two different

ends: i.e.: how many patients with diagnosed borderline personality disorder go

on to develop senile dementia, and at the other end: how many patients diagnosed

with senile dementia had previous diagnoses of personality disorder, or other

mental illnesses?

Are the two conditions interrelated in any way? Does having a personality

disorder or a mental illness of any kind pre-dispose an individual to develop

senile dementia?

I hope such a study will be done; good idea for a research grant.

From my own personal, anecdotal experience, I think there probably is a

correlation or predisposition, because my nada is the only individual in her

entire family of origin / extended family with a personality disorder, and as

far as I know, the only one who developed dementia.

-Annie

>

> I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD. wrote about wondering if her

grandmother was trying to commit suicide by not having a UTI cared for properly.

We have had my 88 year old Fada with us for the last three years and have

finally had to put him in nursing home care. He refuses to move. I have had to

put a wheelchair in front of his bed, he would stand up and feign falling two or

three times then sit in the wheelchair, then I would have to back the wheelchair

up about 6 feet, so I could put him in front of the potty chair which was also

right next to his bed and then he would stand up and turn around and sit on the

potty chair, also feigning more attempts at falling and helplessness. All he had

to do was get out of bed and turn right and take two steps to the potty chair

but noooooooo... I had to wheel him to it. My father refuses to move and in so

doing he is causing all of his bodily systems to shut down and fail. I don't

think he's committing suicide, I think he is trying to get back to the place in

time in infancy or early childhood when he first felt abandoned. I think he

wants to reach that helpless state and then we will all have to take care of him

just like a baby and somewhere deep in his broken heart, mind and psyche he

thinks that will replace what he didn't get the first time. That's my theory. I

would hope that some physicians and psychologists would collaborate with Randi

and take their case studies and our stories and look for common threads of BPD

behavior in aging that lead to health complications that affect end of life.

> I would certainly be willing to share our story. My husband is a physician

himself and at first he had never seen anything like Dad, but now he is seeing

more old people who refuse to move. As our population ages and we have the

medical technology available to keep people alive into their 80's and 90's we

are going to see more aging BPD's, and as they age their behabior becomes more

bizarre. A lot of people in our population used to die well before 80 by heart

attack or stroke and now we can keep these people alive. We need a study, or a

book or something on aging BPD's and their insistence on wallowing in

helplessness as they age. When Fada moved in he walked with a walker but was

capable of being totally independent. Yet he insisted on diapers when he didn't

need them, he wanted me to bathe him when he could get in the shower, he wanted

his fingernails cut and his face shaved and his teeth brushed by me or someone

else when he could do these things for himself. We made the mistake of hiring in

home care (to give me LC in my own home) and in the space of a month they were

doing all of these things for him, even though I had said keep him as

independent as possible. Each day he did less and less until the muscles in his

legs atrophied and he could barely walk at all. I wish I had known then what I

know now, but we didn't even get a BPD diagnosis until Dad had lived with us for

16 months. The last three years have been a nightmare and a prison. The one

thing Fada failed to do was break up my marriage, and I know he had tried,he

wanted all of my attention for him alone. His presence only made my husband and

I closer and my husband came between me and Fada again and again and protected

me. When fada had alienated all of the in home health care workers my husband

bathed fada and changed his diaper because he said fada's insistence that I do

those things, was perverse, creepy, and almost incestuous. My husband and I used

to joke about going out for bread and milk and not coming back, but we did. Fada

is in the hospital and moving to nursing home care this week and it has been a

long time coming.

> The only thing now is he will be in a public place where he can deride me and

my husband's good name. I know I shouldn't care what people think but he could

hurt my husband's practice and in this economy we need all the business we can

muster. He will pull the passive aggressive waif act and there will be people

who will believe him and think I am Satan. I am so sick of him, I am barely

going to be able to visit him in the nursing home. He's been in the hospital

since Wednesday and I have only gone once.

> I think KO's and the medical community need a book on BPD and end of life.

> Randi, please add it to your list, or if your list is too long maybe one of

your colleagues can. I certainly see common threads in our stories posted here,

and I just wish someone with the right credentials would look at these stories

and help us name behaviors that are really BPD being masked as illness and help

us sort things through. I don't think fada will live for more than six months

I'm just dreading what he's going to put me through for the next six months. And

I know I shouldn't care what other people think but fada's lies can hurt my

husband's practice. I just hope most of the nursing home staff will learn to see

through him quickly.

> He can't be the first BPD to be wheeled through their doors! Having a book on

aging and end of life would really help right now.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Kay

>

[Guest guest]

Kay,

I heard a great analogy of NPD, BPD fada's the other day.

It's like they are a bucket with the bottom cut out and that no matter how much

love and care you pour into them, they will never return it or even be able to

receive it. In NPD terms they are referred to as a sub-type called

Grandious/Malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I find the label

malignant as being so accurate. We think of malignancy in terms of cancer, a

type of cell that reproduces and uses up it's hosts resources to the point of

death. KInd of how the NPD and BPD would use us up until they kill the

relationship.

C

>

> I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD. wrote about wondering if her

grandmother was trying to commit suicide by not having a UTI cared for properly.

We have had my 88 year old Fada with us for the last three years and have

finally had to put him in nursing home care. He refuses to move. I have had to

put a wheelchair in front of his bed, he would stand up and feign falling two or

three times then sit in the wheelchair, then I would have to back the wheelchair

up about 6 feet, so I could put him in front of the potty chair which was also

right next to his bed and then he would stand up and turn around and sit on the

potty chair, also feigning more attempts at falling and helplessness. All he had

to do was get out of bed and turn right and take two steps to the potty chair

but noooooooo... I had to wheel him to it. My father refuses to move and in so

doing he is causing all of his bodily systems to shut down and fail. I don't

think he's committing suicide, I think he is trying to get back to the place in

time in infancy or early childhood when he first felt abandoned. I think he

wants to reach that helpless state and then we will all have to take care of him

just like a baby and somewhere deep in his broken heart, mind and psyche he

thinks that will replace what he didn't get the first time. That's my theory. I

would hope that some physicians and psychologists would collaborate with Randi

and take their case studies and our stories and look for common threads of BPD

behavior in aging that lead to health complications that affect end of life.

> I would certainly be willing to share our story. My husband is a physician

himself and at first he had never seen anything like Dad, but now he is seeing

more old people who refuse to move. As our population ages and we have the

medical technology available to keep people alive into their 80's and 90's we

are going to see more aging BPD's, and as they age their behabior becomes more

bizarre. A lot of people in our population used to die well before 80 by heart

attack or stroke and now we can keep these people alive. We need a study, or a

book or something on aging BPD's and their insistence on wallowing in

helplessness as they age. When Fada moved in he walked with a walker but was

capable of being totally independent. Yet he insisted on diapers when he didn't

need them, he wanted me to bathe him when he could get in the shower, he wanted

his fingernails cut and his face shaved and his teeth brushed by me or someone

else when he could do these things for himself. We made the mistake of hiring in

home care (to give me LC in my own home) and in the space of a month they were

doing all of these things for him, even though I had said keep him as

independent as possible. Each day he did less and less until the muscles in his

legs atrophied and he could barely walk at all. I wish I had known then what I

know now, but we didn't even get a BPD diagnosis until Dad had lived with us for

16 months. The last three years have been a nightmare and a prison. The one

thing Fada failed to do was break up my marriage, and I know he had tried,he

wanted all of my attention for him alone. His presence only made my husband and

I closer and my husband came between me and Fada again and again and protected

me. When fada had alienated all of the in home health care workers my husband

bathed fada and changed his diaper because he said fada's insistence that I do

those things, was perverse, creepy, and almost incestuous. My husband and I used

to joke about going out for bread and milk and not coming back, but we did. Fada

is in the hospital and moving to nursing home care this week and it has been a

long time coming.

> The only thing now is he will be in a public place where he can deride me and

my husband's good name. I know I shouldn't care what people think but he could

hurt my husband's practice and in this economy we need all the business we can

muster. He will pull the passive aggressive waif act and there will be people

who will believe him and think I am Satan. I am so sick of him, I am barely

going to be able to visit him in the nursing home. He's been in the hospital

since Wednesday and I have only gone once.

> I think KO's and the medical community need a book on BPD and end of life.

> Randi, please add it to your list, or if your list is too long maybe one of

your colleagues can. I certainly see common threads in our stories posted here,

and I just wish someone with the right credentials would look at these stories

and help us name behaviors that are really BPD being masked as illness and help

us sort things through. I don't think fada will live for more than six months

I'm just dreading what he's going to put me through for the next six months. And

I know I shouldn't care what other people think but fada's lies can hurt my

husband's practice. I just hope most of the nursing home staff will learn to see

through him quickly.

> He can't be the first BPD to be wheeled through their doors! Having a book on

aging and end of life would really help right now.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Kay

>

[Guest guest]

HUGS to you Kay. What you went through and may yet deal with with your

fada is just a nightmare. I hope now that he's not in your home you can get

some relief though I know he'll do his best to make demands from wherever he is.

What you said here sums it up for me:

" We need a study, or a book or something on aging BPD's and their insistence on

wallowing in helplessness as they age. "

My nada has been doing this since her fifties. It's like she has rushed toward

old age and infirmity with open arms. She thought and spoke of herself as old

before she was. She was eager to get the senior discount at restaurants and the

like as soon as possible. Now that she actually has some real health problems

she plays them up and it is hard to tell how bad off she actually is. That she

uses these infirmities to get extra attention and manipulate is without

question, but some part of it is real. So then I'm left wanting not to be

guilty of neglect yet also not to be used. The truth is hard to find though.

And YES there should be a book about this. Especially in all books for adult

children of personality disordered parents I wish they'd emphasize heavily that

old age in the PD'd parent will represent a special challenge to the adult

child. That boundaries of LC and NC that worked when the parent was in decent

health will be severely challenged.

Strength to us all.

Eliza

>

> I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD. wrote about wondering if her

grandmother was trying to commit suicide by not having a UTI cared for properly.

We have had my 88 year old Fada with us for the last three years and have

finally had to put him in nursing home care. He refuses to move. I have had to

put a wheelchair in front of his bed, he would stand up and feign falling two or

three times then sit in the wheelchair, then I would have to back the wheelchair

up about 6 feet, so I could put him in front of the potty chair which was also

right next to his bed and then he would stand up and turn around and sit on the

potty chair, also feigning more attempts at falling and helplessness. All he had

to do was get out of bed and turn right and take two steps to the potty chair

but noooooooo... I had to wheel him to it. My father refuses to move and in so

doing he is causing all of his bodily systems to shut down and fail. I don't

think he's committing suicide, I think he is trying to get back to the place in

time in infancy or early childhood when he first felt abandoned. I think he

wants to reach that helpless state and then we will all have to take care of him

just like a baby and somewhere deep in his broken heart, mind and psyche he

thinks that will replace what he didn't get the first time. That's my theory. I

would hope that some physicians and psychologists would collaborate with Randi

and take their case studies and our stories and look for common threads of BPD

behavior in aging that lead to health complications that affect end of life.

> I would certainly be willing to share our story. My husband is a physician

himself and at first he had never seen anything like Dad, but now he is seeing

more old people who refuse to move. As our population ages and we have the

medical technology available to keep people alive into their 80's and 90's we

are going to see more aging BPD's, and as they age their behabior becomes more

bizarre. A lot of people in our population used to die well before 80 by heart

attack or stroke and now we can keep these people alive. We need a study, or a

book or something on aging BPD's and their insistence on wallowing in

helplessness as they age. When Fada moved in he walked with a walker but was

capable of being totally independent. Yet he insisted on diapers when he didn't

need them, he wanted me to bathe him when he could get in the shower, he wanted

his fingernails cut and his face shaved and his teeth brushed by me or someone

else when he could do these things for himself. We made the mistake of hiring in

home care (to give me LC in my own home) and in the space of a month they were

doing all of these things for him, even though I had said keep him as

independent as possible. Each day he did less and less until the muscles in his

legs atrophied and he could barely walk at all. I wish I had known then what I

know now, but we didn't even get a BPD diagnosis until Dad had lived with us for

16 months. The last three years have been a nightmare and a prison. The one

thing Fada failed to do was break up my marriage, and I know he had tried,he

wanted all of my attention for him alone. His presence only made my husband and

I closer and my husband came between me and Fada again and again and protected

me. When fada had alienated all of the in home health care workers my husband

bathed fada and changed his diaper because he said fada's insistence that I do

those things, was perverse, creepy, and almost incestuous. My husband and I used

to joke about going out for bread and milk and not coming back, but we did. Fada

is in the hospital and moving to nursing home care this week and it has been a

long time coming.

> The only thing now is he will be in a public place where he can deride me and

my husband's good name. I know I shouldn't care what people think but he could

hurt my husband's practice and in this economy we need all the business we can

muster. He will pull the passive aggressive waif act and there will be people

who will believe him and think I am Satan. I am so sick of him, I am barely

going to be able to visit him in the nursing home. He's been in the hospital

since Wednesday and I have only gone once.

> I think KO's and the medical community need a book on BPD and end of life.

> Randi, please add it to your list, or if your list is too long maybe one of

your colleagues can. I certainly see common threads in our stories posted here,

and I just wish someone with the right credentials would look at these stories

and help us name behaviors that are really BPD being masked as illness and help

us sort things through. I don't think fada will live for more than six months

I'm just dreading what he's going to put me through for the next six months. And

I know I shouldn't care what other people think but fada's lies can hurt my

husband's practice. I just hope most of the nursing home staff will learn to see

through him quickly.

> He can't be the first BPD to be wheeled through their doors! Having a book on

aging and end of life would really help right now.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Kay

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I think it would be a very interesting study to correlate from two different

ends: i.e.: how many patients with diagnosed borderline personality disorder go

on to develop senile dementia, and at the other end: how many patients diagnosed

with senile dementia had previous diagnoses of personality disorder, or other

mental illnesses?

>

> Are the two conditions interrelated in any way? Does having a personality

disorder or a mental illness of any kind pre-dispose an individual to develop

senile dementia?

>

Annie, I wonder about this too. To me it seems like a case of the " weakest

link " in the chain breaking. For someone whose mind was always weak in terms

of perceiving reality, others, managing emotions it makes sense that old age

would hit that hardest first.

Eliza

[Guest guest]

My deepest thanks to Annie, C, and Eliza. Your comments have helped so much! And

yes my Dad fakes so much helplessness for attention that I have no idea what is

truly illness, age, related, and what is BPD attention getting. A book would

help!

My thanks to everyone for your kind answers. I have been off the site for over a

year, because having Fada in the house took up so much of my time it was hard to

get on line.

Thank you for caring. We do try to take care of each other!

Kay

> >

> >

> > I think it would be a very interesting study to correlate from two different

ends: i.e.: how many patients with diagnosed borderline personality disorder go

on to develop senile dementia, and at the other end: how many patients diagnosed

with senile dementia had previous diagnoses of personality disorder, or other

mental illnesses?

> >

> > Are the two conditions interrelated in any way? Does having a personality

disorder or a mental illness of any kind pre-dispose an individual to develop

senile dementia?

> >

>

> Annie, I wonder about this too. To me it seems like a case of the " weakest

link " in the chain breaking. For someone whose mind was always weak in terms

of perceiving reality, others, managing emotions it makes sense that old age

would hit that hardest first.

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

I would be first in line to buy the book. My nada is 83 and is horrid. I've

lived in fear of her anger and negativity all my life. How ironic that now I'm

the only person around to take care of her. Thank goodness I finally learned

about BPD but it's still so hard to cope.

She's always been manipulative and dramatic. But it's not very good to be this

way at her age. How do I know when she's really sick or just exaggerating for

attention? It usually means a trip to the doctor or worse, the ER. One side of

me resents being in this position; the kinder side of me can't imagine leaving

such a miserable old woman alone.

People tell me " Put her in a home " or " Get hired help for her. " We've hired help

for her and she fires them as quickly as we find them. How do you " put " a person

in a home when they're still relatively sane? She's great at being all perky and

chatty with the doctors so they don't pick up what a pathetic person she is.

The " eggshells " book was a huge help for me but another book on dealing with

demented nadas would be even better.

>

> I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD.

[Guest guest]

My younger Sister had made the same choice as you. She'd decided long ago that

she would live near our nada in order to look after her, and she did take on

that responsibility after our dad died. Not full-time, but Sister dedicated

quite a lot of her free time to visiting nada and doing things for nada, like

doing her taxes, taking her to appointments, taking her shopping, etc. Yet,

instead of being sweet and grateful to her daughter for spending so much time

looking after her, our nada was critical and abusive to Sister. Nothing Sister

did was ever enough, or good enough, or often enough. When Sister increased her

visits to our mother to three times a week and STILL got grief from nada for not

coming over or staying over often enough (apparently nada did not care that my

Sister had a full time job and was raising her teenage son) my Sister started

experiencing a scary level of depression, so much so that she started therapy.

I could hear how depressed Sister was when we'd talk on the phone; it truly

alarmed me.

Sister was lucky; she happened to find a psychologist who understood exactly

what Sister was going through: he shared that he himself had been raised by a

mother with borderline pd, so he had great empathy and compassion for my Sister.

He was able to help my Sister realize that our nada's bpd and narcissistic pd

made her incredibly self-centered and uncaring about Sister's needs and

feelings. He described our nada as " toxic " , meaning actively harmful to my

Sister.

He suggested that it was OK for Sister to cut way back on how much time she

spent fruitlessly trying to please our nada and gain her approval, because even

if Sister lived with nada, nada would still find things to criticize and demean

and denigrate Sister about.

So, my Sister was able with the therapist's help to make a paradigm shift in her

thinking: she was able to emotionally detach from our mother.

Sister stopped feeling guilty about wanting and needing more of her free time

for herself, and she stopped feeling responsible for our mother's feelings. Up

until about the last 18 months of our mother's life, mom/nada was functional

and able to care for herself. Nada had a good amount of saved income and other

financial resources, enough to live in a nice apartment, take an occasional

vacation trip, etc., and she could easily afford to have hired a housekeeper or

part-time caregiver and/or a driver or taken taxis a couple of days a week to go

shopping or visiting, plus there were plenty of senior transport services and

public transportation available in her city.

So, my Sister was able to emotionally " divorce " herself from our mother. Sister

stopped thinking of this person as " Mother " , in order to save her own sanity.

Like you, my Sister felt she wanted and needed to continue having contact with

our mother and keep an eye on her well-being, but becoming emotionally detached

allowed Sister to cut way, way back to seeing mother only once a month and yet

not take nada's unrelenting abuse and criticism personally. Or, quite as

personally.

Sister was able to shift the burden of responsibility for much of her self-care

back on nada, where it should have been, *without guilt.* The therapist's

biggest contribution to my Sister's NOT having a nervous breakdown or descending

into severe depression was that he was able to help Sister unburden herself from

the misplaced, inappropriate guilt that Sister was carrying. This allowed my

Sister to make that emotional separation, and think of and feel that our mother

was simply another one of her clients (Sister has a job in a social services

field). Sister takes good care of her clients without becoming emotionally

invested; she is able to maintain a professional detachment with her clients.

The psychologist was also able to help Sister accept that if our nada became

particularly vicious and was trying to inflict emotional pain on Sister, that

Sister had the right to give nada a " time out. " It was OK to have a temporary

No Contact period with nada as a consequence for behaving badly.

That gave Sister much-needed space from time to time, as it would take nada

anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to decide that she would apologize so

the contact would resume. But even after undergoing therapy herself, nada never

did admit that anything was ever her fault, and maintained that she was

justified and entitled to act the way she did, and that all her problems came

from other people, particularly Sister and me. Therapy in nada's case was kind

of pointless.

And once it became clear (over the last 18 months or so of nada's life) that our

nada was starting to actively hallucinate and was doing things that were

physically harmful to herself and others (nada was wandering around outside at

night, and kept calling the police due to hallucinating that she was under

attack by " circus people " , was burying her valuables in various spots around

the apartment complex, and had tried to persuade small children she didn't know

into her apartment, etc.) my Sister was then able to have mom undergo a full

psychiatric evaluation. When nada received a diagnosis of senile dementia, the

next step was to acquire mother's power of attorney and guardianship of her,

which allowed Sister to relocate nada into a very nice residential care home

that had an Alzheimer's wing.

So, I hope you can figure out a way to at least partially emotionally detach

from your nada, so that you will not feel that you have to spend all your free

time caring for her.

If you find that you are becoming increasingly depressed, I hope you will look

into seeing a therapist about it, and that you are as lucky as my Sister was in

finding a really good therapist who understands bpd and the devastatingly

negative impact it has on the Kids Of bpd parents.

-Annie

> >

> > I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD.

>

[Guest guest]

Irene, you said it - indeed " How do you " put " a person

in a home when they're still relatively sane? " I read all the time people

saying I should make my nada do this or that as if that's even a possibility!

The hurdles to declaring someone legally incompetent are huge. And as long as

it is up to them, they want it their way and only their way no matter the cost

to others.

Eliza

> >

> > I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her would

write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I see a

lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD.

>

[Guest guest]

We finally hospitalized Fada because he absolutely refused to walk even two

steps. All he had to do was stand up take two steps and turn and sit on potty

chair and refused. My husband was coming home daily to find him sitting in

soiled diapers. We hospitalized for a bladder infection, reported to physician

his inability to walk, and he has been in nursing home less than 24 hours and PT

called my husband and wanted to know what was baseline walking behavior so he

could come home. Now my husband is furious they will keep him 30 days declare

him rehabilitated (physically and send him home) Elderly BPD's are even crazier

than their younger selves. They have all this inappropriate behavior with

family, but put them in public and they revert to normal and make us look like

the ones who are crazy. If Fada gets to come home I'm insisting on home health,

because he won't be home very long at all before he is refusing to walk, etc. If

we have home health PT's it won't be long at all before he fires them, or

refuses to walk for them. Then it is documented and when we send him to

hospital, then nursing home, again when they say he is rehabbed we will have

documentation that he can not maintain at home. That is all I know to do. I have

begun the lamentation I think the Israelites used... " How long O lord must I

suffer? " or something close to that

We need a book that physicians and other end of life care providers can access

and so we can get help.

Kay

> > >

> > > I hope that Randi and/or some other medical experts who work with her

would write a book on BPD's and the end of life, because as I read these posts I

see a lot of similar behaviors described by those of us dealing with aging/dying

parents or grandparents with BPD.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your response. I thought I was coping pretty well, keeping

her at arms length but I see she has crept under my skin again. Just this week I

" quit " a volunteer activity I've done for 21 years because I feel so empty and

drained. Even having one of the grandkids over wears me out.

Yesterday I went looking for the book on BPD mothers. We found it at and

Noble, hubby handed it to me so I could scan it, see if it might be helpful. I

randomly opened it, read a paragraph and started to cry, right there in the

store. That's not a good sign. He asked if I wanted it, all I could do was nod

my head.

The Eggshells book is a good overview. This will be more intense. Already I'm

trying not to underline everything I read. LOL But being back with this group

and reading this book may get my life back on track. I've been feeling dead

inside and that's not fun.

>

> My younger Sister had made the same choice as you. She'd decided long ago

that she would live near our nada in order to look after her, and she did take

on that responsibility after our dad died. Not full-time, but Sister dedicated

quite a lot of her free time to visiting nada and doing things for nada, like

doing her taxes, taking her to appointments, taking her shopping, etc. Yet,

instead of being sweet and grateful to her daughter for spending so much time

looking after her, our nada was critical and abusive to Sister. Nothing Sister

did was ever enough, or good enough, or often enough. When Sister increased her

visits to our mother to three times a week and STILL got grief from nada for not

coming over or staying over often enough (apparently nada did not care that my

Sister had a full time job and was raising her teenage son) my Sister started

experiencing a scary level of depression, so much so that she started therapy.

I could hear how depressed Sister was when we'd talk on the phone; it truly

alarmed me.

>