Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in case something was happening to her. Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She just wanted to get me to call her back. We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 minutes). Here's what raised flags for me: -her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other things... " She ignored me and plowed on. -her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " -her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be good...could not be good.... -it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can ambush me later i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same way about me and my family. my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else doesn't want ot hear. I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no big progress is expected at one meeting, right? I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 You know your nada and your own tolerances best, so you will have to figure out what will work best for you. But bottom line is that you can't have a rational conversation with an irrational person who either can't or won't hear what you are saying in the way you mean it to be understood. The person with bpd will process your words and filter them and put a negative " spin " on them. What worked for my Sister was to stop trying to get our nada to understand and agree to Sister's boundaries. Nada was incapable of or unwilling to accept her share of the blame for any difficulties; nothing was ever her fault, and she had to be the boss and in control at all times. (Yes, these are diametrically opposite positions to take, but they put nada in a perpetual win-win position.) So, instead, Sister just set her boundaries and gave consequences for boundary violation, without explaining it in depth, arguing with nada about it, or justifying or defending her position to nada. Sort of like training a toddler that its not OK to pull someone's hair or bite them. You can't intellectually explain to the toddler why that isn't OK and expect the toddler to understand you fully and feel remorse. That is beyond the toddler's maturity level. Instead you give praise for when they behave well ( " You used your words to tell mommy that you are angry, that is very good! I'm proud of you. " ) and as much as possible remove the frustrations that trigger the toddler to behave badly. But if the toddler does pull hair or bite, you say, " No, that's not OK. No hair pulling, no biting " and give an appropriate consequence each time they bite or pull hair. (A mild, toddler-level consequence for a real toddler. Sister used temporary No Contact for our nada.) You're perhaps thinking that if you can just get your nada to fully understand what it is that she does that is hurtful to you and why its hurtful, she will stop doing it. All I can say (somewhat ironically) is " good luck with that. " -Annie > > She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in case something was happening to her. > > Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She just wanted to get me to call her back. > > We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 minutes). > > Here's what raised flags for me: > -her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other things... " She ignored me and plowed on. > > -her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " > > -her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be good...could not be good.... > > -it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can ambush me later > > i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same way about me and my family. > > my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else doesn't want ot hear. > > I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no big progress is expected at one meeting, right? > > I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. > > How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? > For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? > > Fiona > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Fiona, You ask how to nicely tell your nada that you only want to talk twice a month. If by that you mean how do you tell her in a way that won't upset her, the answer is that it is probably impossible to make her understand that without making her upset. I think you have to just come out and tell her what schedule you're willing to talk to her on. If she calls at other times, either don't answer or say something like " I'm sorry but now is not a good time for me. We'll talk on _____day. " You may have to end the conversation rather forcefully. In my experience, it is possible to train my nada to treat me more reasonably, but it is not possible to make her understand why the things she tends to do when allowed to do them are not appropriate. Her brain is just not wired to feel and understand emotions the way normal people do. She is capable of understanding that if she does certain things they'll cause me to not be willing to talk to her and to not be willing to do the various things she wants me to do for her. It may help to try to remember that there's sometimes a difference between being nice to someone and doing what is good for them. You wouldn't give a toddler ice cream for every meal just because he likes ice cream and asks for it. Doing so would be bad for his health. Similarly, giving a nada everything she wants is encouraging her to misbehave and that's not really good for anyone even if she feels you ought to give it all to her. At 05:50 PM 07/21/2011 Fiona wrote: >She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to >me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in >case something was happening to her. > >Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She >just wanted to get me to call her back. > >We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 >minutes). > >Here's what raised flags for me: >-her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's >very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you >how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've >been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other >things... " She ignored me and plowed on. > >-her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you >didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " > >-her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be >good...could not be good.... > >-it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can >ambush me later > >i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like >they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same >way about me and my family. > >my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start >calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a >regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a >week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with >this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate >confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else >doesn't want ot hear. > >I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to >her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my >expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no >big progress is expected at one meeting, right? > >I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i >want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate >thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. > >How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only >want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? >For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries >with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them >to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? > >Fiona -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 > I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no big progress is expected at one meeting, right? Yeah, that's a nice idea. For conflicts with people who are willing to change. It's (most likely) going to be a disaster with your mother. Q:> How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? A:You only answer the phone once or twice monthly, non-emergency " emergencies " included. If it helps, you can make a standing appt with her, say the first and third sundays of the month at such-and-such a time. And only call or answer then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 The toddler analogy is priceless. And perfect. I keep forgetting it and need to keep it more in my mind. You're right, Annie. She doesn't need to get it. I have to remind myself of that. Thanks for your advice! > > > > She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in case something was happening to her. > > > > Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She just wanted to get me to call her back. > > > > We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 minutes). > > > > Here's what raised flags for me: > > -her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other things... " She ignored me and plowed on. > > > > -her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " > > > > -her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be good...could not be good.... > > > > -it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can ambush me later > > > > i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same way about me and my family. > > > > my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else doesn't want ot hear. > > > > I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no big progress is expected at one meeting, right? > > > > I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. > > > > How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? > > For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? > > > > Fiona > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 thanks, Katrina. that's so helpful. this is the 2nd time someone mentioned toddlers in dealing with my nada; i'm seeing a relevant trend here! It really is comparable. I'm such an avoider of conflict. I just hate it. But I guess my choices are to either 1) choke down nada and her smothering and avoid conflict with nada, or 2) tell it to her like it is and avoid making myself ill with rage and stress from dealing with her. > >She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to > >me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in > >case something was happening to her. > > > >Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She > >just wanted to get me to call her back. > > > >We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 > >minutes). > > > >Here's what raised flags for me: > >-her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's > >very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you > >how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've > >been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other > >things... " She ignored me and plowed on. > > > >-her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you > >didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " > > > >-her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be > >good...could not be good.... > > > >-it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can > >ambush me later > > > >i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like > >they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same > >way about me and my family. > > > >my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start > >calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a > >regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a > >week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with > >this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate > >confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else > >doesn't want ot hear. > > > >I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to > >her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my > >expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no > >big progress is expected at one meeting, right? > > > >I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i > >want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate > >thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. > > > >How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only > >want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? > >For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries > >with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them > >to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? > > > >Fiona > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 You are probable being too nice :-) She's trying to manipulate, big time. Did you ask her what was so urgent? What did she say? The only thing you need to say to her is that you are working on some things for yourself right now, and have chosen to have very little contact with her and the rest of the family. She needs to be told that urgent means URGENT. Like in the story of the little boy that cried " wolf, " if she says it's urgent there had better be a fire somewhere. If it is easier to say these things in a letter or email, do it that way. She'll get the message. She won't like it, but she'll get it. Every time I tried to set a boundary with mine she kept wiggling, twisting and throwing out alternative suggestions so she could keep having things her way. This went on for years. I tried to be fair and give respect to her suggestions instead of rejecting them out of hand. This took a lot of energy. When she eventually ran out of wiggles (and I became more firm), she got nasty. Now SHE rejects me: refuses to call, write, etc. I'd like to say how hurt this makes me feel at times, but to be completely honest, the emotion I feel the most is RELIEF. > > She called me and left a message saying she needed to talk to me urgently. With the heat wave, I decided to call her back in case something was happening to her. > > Turns out, she didn't have anything special to tell me. She just wanted to get me to call her back. > > We had a brief, somewhat positive conversation (like 3 minutes). > > Here's what raised flags for me: > -her crying, almost on cue, saying how lonely she was. it's very, very hard to do Medium Chill when someone's telling you how lonely they are. I said, " I know you are; that's what I 've been telling you, to volunteer, to join your church, other things... " She ignored me and plowed on. > > -her (mis)quoting from my letter, " you know, like you said you didn't want to talk to me anymore until you felt like it! " > > -her suggesting we meet for dinner to talk things out. could be good...could not be good.... > > -it felt like she was talking all nice-nice to me so she can ambush me later > > i just don't trust her or my brother right now. i feel like they're in cahoots against me, and i'm sure they feel the same way about me and my family. > > my concern right now: she's probably expecting me to start calling her on a regular basis again or to visit her on a regular basis again. she's going to start calling me once a week and expect me to fall into step, so i'll have to deal with this all over again. I just hate conflict and I hate confrontation and I hate having to say things someone else doesn't want ot hear. > > I like the idea of going out for dinner to discuss my letter to her and to discuss stuff, but I think I have to lower my expectations big time. This is like Middle East peace talks, no big progress is expected at one meeting, right? > > I think my problem is that i want everything all spelled out, i want her to know thus and such and to know i will only tolerate thus and such and i'm seeing it just doesn't work that way. > > How can I tell her nicely if she starts calling me that I only want to talk (twice a month or monthly)? > For those of you that have had to set those kind of boundaries with their nada, do you just have to stop being nice for them to get it? Maybe I'm just being too sensitive and nice? > > Fiona > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Fiona, I'm new to this group, like brand new. lol and I read what you wrote about talking to your nada. & I was like oh my gosh! The same thing happened to me last night and I'm so confused of what I should do as well. I want to talk to her, but it always ends up being so emotionally draining for me. Is it the same for you? I just don't know how to handle this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Hi , Oh yeah, it is very draining. It's not a conversation. It's me anticipating how I'm going to be ambushed or attacked. Sigh. And then she starts asking a battery of questions. Welcome to the group! You'll find lots of kindred spirits here. Fiona > > Fiona, > > I'm new to this group, like brand new. lol and I read what you wrote about talking to your nada. & I was like oh my gosh! The same thing happened to me last night and I'm so confused of what I should do as well. I want to talk to her, but it always ends up being so emotionally draining for me. Is it the same for you? I just don't know how to handle this situation. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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