puzzled RE the DSM-V (sort of off topic)

[Guest guest]

If I understand correctly, the World Health Organization's ICD-10 (their version

of the DSM: their classification and definition of diagnostic criteria for ALL

diseases and conditions including psychiatric ones) has been adopted here in the

USA.

The ICD-10 classification system was supposed to be transitioning into use now

by Medicare and Medicaid, but the Obama administration decided for some reason

to extend the transition period about 18 months.

So, why on earth is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual being revised by the

American Psychiatric Association if its not even going to be used anymore?

Medicare and Medicaid are going to be using the ICD-10, if I understand this

whole thing correctly (?)

Here is the article:

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

In any case, the current version of the ICD -10 does include narcissistic

personality disorder and histrionic pd. They also list borderline pd but they

call it " emotionally unstable personality disorder " , and they list antisocial pd

but call it " dissocial personality disorder " And, they have

" passive-aggressive pd " , which had been removed from the DSM-IV.

So, if anyone can enlighten me about this, I'd appreciate it. Since this is

somewhat off-topic, feel free to contact me off-list if you want to.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

I think it might have to do with scholarly differences--disagreements on

how to classify certain disorders, how to diagnose it, et cetera.

Disagreements encourage further research, and by revising DSM, then you can

bet people will be researching to see which diagnostic/classifcation system

is most accurate.

That's my best, and entirely uneducated, guess about why the APA is still

going through the revision of the DSM.

I may be completely off base, in which case I welcome corrections

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:38 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> If I understand correctly, the World Health Organization's ICD-10 (their

> version of the DSM: their classification and definition of diagnostic

> criteria for ALL diseases and conditions including psychiatric ones) has

> been adopted here in the USA.

>

> The ICD-10 classification system was supposed to be transitioning into use

> now by Medicare and Medicaid, but the Obama administration decided for some

> reason to extend the transition period about 18 months.

>

> So, why on earth is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual being revised by

> the American Psychiatric Association if its not even going to be used

> anymore?

>

> Medicare and Medicaid are going to be using the ICD-10, if I understand

> this whole thing correctly (?)

>

> Here is the article:

> http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

>

> In any case, the current version of the ICD -10 does include narcissistic

> personality disorder and histrionic pd. They also list borderline pd but

> they call it " emotionally unstable personality disorder " , and they list

> antisocial pd but call it " dissocial personality disorder " And, they have

> " passive-aggressive pd " , which had been removed from the DSM-IV.

>

> So, if anyone can enlighten me about this, I'd appreciate it. Since this

> is somewhat off-topic, feel free to contact me off-list if you want to.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is the first I've heard about going to ICD-10. Had no idea

Medicare & Medicaid were moving over to it either. Good question,

Annie. No idea why they're revising the DSM then. Then again,

Holly's theory sounds logical to me too.

Would be interested in this as well.

Mia

[Guest guest]

I found this...

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

But it still doesn't answer why they're revising the DSM.

" FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 16, 2012

Contact: CMS Public Affairs

HHS announces intent to delay ICD-10 compliance date

As part of President Obama’s commitment to reducing regulatory burden,

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen G. Sebelius today

announced that HHS will initiate a process to postpone the date by

which certain health care entities have to comply with International

Classification of Diseases, 10th Edition diagnosis and procedure codes

(ICD-10).

The final rule adopting ICD-10 as a standard was published in January

2009 and set a compliance date of October 1, 2013 – a delay of two

years from the compliance date initially specified in the 2008

proposed rule. HHS will announce a new compliance date moving

forward.

“ICD-10 codes are important to many positive improvements in our

health care system,” said HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. “We have

heard from many in the provider community who have concerns about the

administrative burdens they face in the years ahead. We are

committing to work with the provider community to reexamine the pace

at which HHS and the nation implement these important improvements to

our health care system.”

ICD-10 codes provide more robust and specific data that will help

improve patient care and enable the exchange of our health care data

with that of the rest of the world that has long been using ICD-10.

Entities covered under the Health Insurance Portability and

Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) will be required to use the ICD-10

diagnostic and procedure codes. "

> This is the first I've heard about going to ICD-10. Had no idea

> Medicare & Medicaid were moving over to it either. Good question,

> Annie. No idea why they're revising the DSM then. Then again,

> Holly's theory sounds logical to me too.

>

> Would be interested in this as well.

>

> Mia

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the repeated emails, but I found this too lol. Looks like

they use the ICD-10CM for billing purposes rather than for

diagnosis... which doesn't make much sense to me?

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/01/dsm.aspx

Posting a snippet from above article:

" How the DSM revision will affect psychologists depends not only on

how different the DSM-5 is from the DSM-IV but how different it is

from the World Health Organization’s International Classification of

Diseases (ICD), says Bufka.

" The reality in this country is that increasingly our members are

supposed to be reporting diagnoses by ICD codes for billing purposes, "

she says, adding that the ICD is itself in the process of revision.

The ICD-9-CM, the version currently used in the United States, mirrors

the DSM-IV in most codes.

" If the changes to the DSM aren’t huge and the ICD-10-CM syncs up,

then there won’t be a huge amount of change for our members, " says

Bufka, explaining that many clinicians use billing software that

automatically translates DSM codes into ICD codes. " If the two systems

start to differ a fair amount, there’s going to need to be some

mechanism for psychologists to learn the ICD. " "

> I found this...

>

> http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

>

> But it still doesn't answer why they're revising the DSM.

>

> " FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

> February 16, 2012

> Contact: CMS Public Affairs

>

>

> HHS announces intent to delay ICD-10 compliance date

>

> As part of President Obama’s commitment to reducing regulatory burden,

> Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen G. Sebelius today

> announced that HHS will initiate a process to postpone the date by

> which certain health care entities have to comply with International

> Classification of Diseases, 10th Edition diagnosis and procedure codes

> (ICD-10).

>

> The final rule adopting ICD-10 as a standard was published in January

> 2009 and set a compliance date of October 1, 2013 – a delay of two

> years from the compliance date initially specified in the 2008

> proposed rule. HHS will announce a new compliance date moving

> forward.

>

> “ICD-10 codes are important to many positive improvements in our

> health care system,” said HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. “We have

> heard from many in the provider community who have concerns about the

> administrative burdens they face in the years ahead. We are

> committing to work with the provider community to reexamine the pace

> at which HHS and the nation implement these important improvements to

> our health care system.”

>

> ICD-10 codes provide more robust and specific data that will help

> improve patient care and enable the exchange of our health care data

> with that of the rest of the world that has long been using ICD-10.

> Entities covered under the Health Insurance Portability and

> Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) will be required to use the ICD-10

> diagnostic and procedure codes. "

>

>

>> This is the first I've heard about going to ICD-10. Had no idea

>> Medicare & Medicaid were moving over to it either. Good question,

>> Annie. No idea why they're revising the DSM then. Then again,

>> Holly's theory sounds logical to me too.

>>

>> Would be interested in this as well.

>>

>> Mia

[Guest guest]

I agree, it makes NO sense whatsoever, actually. Ah, our government in

redundantly redundant action, again; embracing two different ways of

classifying, categorizing and determining a psychiatric diagnosis, which sort of

overlap but not really. Ack. So they had to develop special software programs

to " translate " a DSM diagnosis to an ICD-10 classification.

Just freaking switch to the ICD-10, people.

Honestly....

-Annie

> >> This is the first I've heard about going to ICD-10. Had no idea

> >> Medicare & Medicaid were moving over to it either. Good question,

> >> Annie. No idea why they're revising the DSM then. Then again,

> >> Holly's theory sounds logical to me too.

> >>

> >> Would be interested in this as well.

> >>

> >> Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Oh but Annie... that would be LOGICAL!!! LOL!

Mia

> Just freaking switch to the ICD-10, people.

> Honestly....

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

That is strange. About ten years ago the private insurance plan I was on did

require ICD-9(?) diagnosis for billing and reimbursement. I remember thinking

how odd it was then.

> > >> This is the first I've heard about going to ICD-10. Had no idea

> > >> Medicare & Medicaid were moving over to it either. Good question,

> > >> Annie. No idea why they're revising the DSM then. Then again,

> > >> Holly's theory sounds logical to me too.

> > >>

> > >> Would be interested in this as well.

> > >>

> > >> Mia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I thought late last year they decided to keep NPD, and therefore have 6 PD's in

the DSM instead of the originally proposed 5?

I also read an argument a researcher published on how Histrionic PD is not so

'serious' as the other PD's. I have a Histrionic family member, and I could

write a best selling book with the stories of damage this person has inflicted

on the family, mostly in the pursuit of satisfying his continual need for

bigger, better, secret thrills, sexual or otherwise.

[Guest guest]

I think that's true, but I'm sure that it's also going forward simply because so

much time and effort has already gone into it. For them to completely abandon

the project would be like asking zealots to back away from their cause. There is

just too much money, time, and ego wrapped up in the DSM revision for them to

toss it aside. It's much easier to keep moving forward and make justifications

for why it's still useful than to believe that all their work was for nothing.

My two cents.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:44 PM

Subject: Re: puzzled RE the DSM-V (sort of off topic)

I think it might have to do with scholarly differences--disagreements on

how to classify certain disorders, how to diagnose it, et cetera.

Disagreements encourage further research, and by revising DSM, then you can

bet people will be researching to see which diagnostic/classifcation system

is most accurate.

That's my best, and entirely uneducated, guess about why the APA is still

going through the revision of the DSM.

I may be completely off base, in which case I welcome corrections

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:38 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> If I understand correctly, the World Health Organization's ICD-10 (their

> version of the DSM: their classification and definition of diagnostic

> criteria for ALL diseases and conditions including psychiatric ones) has

> been adopted here in the USA.

>

> The ICD-10 classification system was supposed to be transitioning into use

> now by Medicare and Medicaid, but the Obama administration decided for some

> reason to extend the transition period about 18 months.

>

> So, why on earth is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual being revised by

> the American Psychiatric Association if its not even going to be used

> anymore?

>

> Medicare and Medicaid are going to be using the ICD-10, if I understand

> this whole thing correctly (?)

>

> Here is the article:

> http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

>

> In any case, the current version of the ICD -10 does include narcissistic

> personality disorder and histrionic pd. They also list borderline pd but

> they call it " emotionally unstable personality disorder " , and they list

> antisocial pd but call it " dissocial personality disorder " And, they have

> " passive-aggressive pd " , which had been removed from the DSM-IV.

>

> So, if anyone can enlighten me about this, I'd appreciate it. Since this

> is somewhat off-topic, feel free to contact me off-list if you want to.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Ack! " and " GAHHH!!! "

(with me doing a face-palm slap.)

Your government dollars at work, folks.

-Annie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > If I understand correctly, the World Health Organization's ICD-10 (their

> > version of the DSM: their classification and definition of diagnostic

> > criteria for ALL diseases and conditions including psychiatric ones) has

> > been adopted here in the USA.

> >

> > The ICD-10 classification system was supposed to be transitioning into use

> > now by Medicare and Medicaid, but the Obama administration decided for some

> > reason to extend the transition period about 18 months.

> >

> > So, why on earth is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual being revised by

> > the American Psychiatric Association if its not even going to be used

> > anymore?

> >

> > Medicare and Medicaid are going to be using the ICD-10, if I understand

> > this whole thing correctly (?)

> >

> > Here is the article:

> > http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/02/20120216a.html

> >

> > In any case, the current version of the ICD -10 does include narcissistic

> > personality disorder and histrionic pd. They also list borderline pd but

> > they call it " emotionally unstable personality disorder " , and they list

> > antisocial pd but call it " dissocial personality disorder " And, they have

> > " passive-aggressive pd " , which had been removed from the DSM-IV.

> >

> > So, if anyone can enlighten me about this, I'd appreciate it. Since this

> > is somewhat off-topic, feel free to contact me off-list if you want to.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>