strange, nostalgic and fearful moment

[Guest guest]

I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without looking,

thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's voice

saying my name,

" ...Annie? "

I froze. My heart stopped.

" ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both relief

and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice sounds

SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is because it

was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am, and say that

she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended family. And

the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear and longing

when for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely, brief

chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel a

little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound

of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a

kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard

to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do

serious, long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent

with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

((hugs)) That is sweet that your aunt called you. And thank you for sharing

your story. It's sad to know that it's extremely difficult or impossible to

fully move past the PTSD reactions, but at least we can work to make them a

small part of a more fulfilling life.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:21 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad

> way too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did:

> that used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying

> news from family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before

> Christmas, so you newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

> looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my

> mother's voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both

> relief and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's

> voice sounds SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason

> is because it was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how

> I am, and say that she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of

> the extended family. And the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a

> wave of both fear and longing when for a split second I thought that was my

> mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me

> into both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with

> a nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO

> bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

> brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still

> feel a little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is

> what having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet

> the sound of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented

> due to a of a kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age

> and finding it hard to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental

> illness and it can do serious, long-term emotional damage to children left

> in the care of a parent with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

*HUGS* to you, Annie! That feeling you have, it's such a strange

feeling yet I think if anyone can relate, it's us. We KNOW what that

can be like... where normal folks with normal 'rents probably

wouldn't.

I'm sorry you feel so disoriented, but it was very nice of her to

call. I'm glad you had the opportunity to chat with her. And in some

ways, I think the feeling you are having right now is a form of fleas.

Hell, I think I'd feel the same way if my nada called me out of the

clear blue. I sure hope she doesn't though LOL.

Have your adult beverage and sit back, relax & do something just for

you. Read a book, watch a favorite movie, etc. Whatever floats your

boat =)

Mia

- PS: Your post did bring tears to my eyes. *HUGS*

[Guest guest]

Pour your glass of wine or mix up that margarita, my dear. I don't think any of

my nadas sisters sound like her, thank god! I can imagine that was very

disorienting.

{{{{Annie}}}}

>

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's

voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both

relief and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice

sounds SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is

because it was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am,

and say that she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended

family. And the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear

and longing when for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel

a little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound

of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a

kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard

to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do

serious, long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent

with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

yep, a nice stiff drink is in order. Also a deep breath and a reminder that your

are safe.

<<hugs>>

>

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's

voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both

relief and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice

sounds SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is

because it was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am,

and say that she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended

family. And the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear

and longing when for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel

a little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound

of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a

kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard

to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do

serious, long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent

with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

It's all so effed up isn't it? Somehow we survive. Hugs to you (((((Annie)))))

Eliza

>

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's

voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both

relief and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice

sounds SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is

because it was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am,

and say that she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended

family. And the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear

and longing when for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel

a little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound

of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a

kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard

to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do

serious, long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent

with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie,

I'm sorry to hear that you still suffering even after she dies.

Mine nada still driving me crazy for more than a year in a roll ( before I had

more " distance " from her) and I'm under tranquilizer everyday.

Today I exploded and said to her I really wish she dies soon so I 'll get rid

off all her sh..t!

and of all her bad energy and feeling she pass to me but... reading your

message..it seems she will drive me crazy until I DIE. Only her death will not

be enought to get rid off her.OMG...

BUT I won't get more crazy 'cause her! I'm fed up !!!! and I can not stand feel

myself guilt after all the bad things I tell her when I am crazy because HER!

So..even after NADA dies we still with this feeling?? OH no!!!!! I don't want

this for me, but I'm afraid I will face it.

Let's get out of it!!!! we do not need this bpd s...t anymore!

Let's relief our souls Annie!

I wish I could hug you.

big hug from far away and good vibration to get out of this.

monica

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's

voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both relief

and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice sounds

SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is because it was

just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am, and say that she

missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended family. And the

other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear and longing when

for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel a

little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound of

my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a kind

of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard to

believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do serious,

long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent with

moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

> TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!

> More women becoming the breadwinners

> Wives who earn more their husbands are fast approaching the majority, new

statistics show.

> Privacy Policy

[Guest guest]

Thanks all of you, and thanks for the virtual hugs, .

I feel optimistic that I can get past the ptsd triggering, now that I have

incorporated the reality that sometimes either of my Aunts may phone me

unexpectedly and I'll hear their voices, and even though their voices sound

uncannily like my nada's voice (they are /were after all sisters, elderly, still

live in the same area where they all grew up and have identical accents) my nada

is gone and at peace and she can't do anything to me anymore.

I think that even though we are damaged, even perhaps permanently damaged by the

psychological abuse we endured as children, we can compensate for it in the same

way that a person who is missing their lower leg can learn to use one of those

fantastic new artificial legs that allow a crippled person to even run and play

sports. Yes, part of my emotional development got ripped away from me, but I

can still have as joyful and full a life as possible, in spite of it.

I am basically an optimistic person, I guess. But I am also a realist. The

reality is that the very criteria that define borderline pd virtually

*guarantees* that a child in the care of a bpd mother (in particular, because

mothers are most often the sole primary caregivers of their children) who is

moderately to severely affected by mental illness but untreated, is going to be

subjected to emotional and psychological abuse, and probably physical abuse or

neglect, emotional neglect, or even exploitation (parentifying, sexual abuse,

etc.)

The more severely affected by bpd the mother is, the more frequent and intense

her symptoms are, the more the child is going to suffer long-term, even

permanent psychological damage from chronic, unrelenting emotional abuse or

neglect.

I intend to keep addressing this, bringing it out into the open, until hopefully

more and more public awareness grows about how important it is to protect

children from psychological mistreatment or neglect by their own parents.

-Annie

>

>

> Hi Annie,

>

> I'm sorry to hear that you still suffering even after she dies.

> Mine nada still driving me crazy for more than a year in a roll ( before I had

more " distance " from her) and I'm under tranquilizer everyday.

> Today I exploded and said to her I really wish she dies soon so I 'll get rid

off all her sh..t!

> and of all her bad energy and feeling she pass to me but... reading your

message..it seems she will drive me crazy until I DIE. Only her death will not

be enought to get rid off her.OMG...

> BUT I won't get more crazy 'cause her! I'm fed up !!!! and I can not stand

feel myself guilt after all the bad things I tell her when I am crazy because

HER!

> So..even after NADA dies we still with this feeling?? OH no!!!!! I don't want

this for me, but I'm afraid I will face it.

> Let's get out of it!!!! we do not need this bpd s...t anymore!

> Let's relief our souls Annie!

> I wish I could hug you.

>

> big hug from far away and good vibration to get out of this.

>

> monica

[Guest guest]

I really like your analogy of compensating for our damage the way someone who

loses a limb gets an artificial one and goes on to lead a full life. Sometimes I

look at people around me, those whose families weren't crazy, and I envy the

simplicity with which they see life. But I also know that my knowledge and

experience, though bought with much pain and suffering, mean that I see a much

bigger picture than they ever will. 

We do find ways to compensate and move on. We are survivors. 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:56 AM

Subject: Re: strange, nostalgic and fearful moment

 

Thanks all of you, and thanks for the virtual hugs, .

I feel optimistic that I can get past the ptsd triggering, now that I have

incorporated the reality that sometimes either of my Aunts may phone me

unexpectedly and I'll hear their voices, and even though their voices sound

uncannily like my nada's voice (they are /were after all sisters, elderly, still

live in the same area where they all grew up and have identical accents) my nada

is gone and at peace and she can't do anything to me anymore.

I think that even though we are damaged, even perhaps permanently damaged by the

psychological abuse we endured as children, we can compensate for it in the same

way that a person who is missing their lower leg can learn to use one of those

fantastic new artificial legs that allow a crippled person to even run and play

sports. Yes, part of my emotional development got ripped away from me, but I

can still have as joyful and full a life as possible, in spite of it.

I am basically an optimistic person, I guess. But I am also a realist. The

reality is that the very criteria that define borderline pd virtually

*guarantees* that a child in the care of a bpd mother (in particular, because

mothers are most often the sole primary caregivers of their children) who is

moderately to severely affected by mental illness but untreated, is going to be

subjected to emotional and psychological abuse, and probably physical abuse or

neglect, emotional neglect, or even exploitation (parentifying, sexual abuse,

etc.)

The more severely affected by bpd the mother is, the more frequent and intense

her symptoms are, the more the child is going to suffer long-term, even

permanent psychological damage from chronic, unrelenting emotional abuse or

neglect.

I intend to keep addressing this, bringing it out into the open, until hopefully

more and more public awareness grows about how important it is to protect

children from psychological mistreatment or neglect by their own parents.

-Annie

>

>

> Hi Annie,

>

> I'm sorry to hear that you still suffering even after she dies.

> Mine nada still driving me crazy for more than a year in a roll ( before I had

more " distance " from her) and I'm under tranquilizer everyday.

> Today I exploded and said to her I really wish she dies soon so I 'll get rid

off all her sh..t!

> and of all her bad energy and feeling she pass to me but... reading your

message..it seems she will drive me crazy until I DIE. Only her death will not

be enought to get rid off her.OMG...

> BUT I won't get more crazy 'cause her! I'm fed up !!!! and I can not stand

feel myself guilt after all the bad things I tell her when I am crazy because

HER!

> So..even after NADA dies we still with this feeling?? OH no!!!!! I don't want

this for me, but I'm afraid I will face it.

> Let's get out of it!!!! we do not need this bpd s...t anymore!

> Let's relief our souls Annie!

> I wish I could hug you.

>

> big hug from far away and good vibration to get out of this.

>

> monica

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I wish that we could all remove the portions of our brains that carry all these

memories, triggers, sounds, smells so that we can enjoy what everyone deserves

as a human on this earth while we are alive...human rights.

For all of us who have had our rights taken away by the person we trusted...this

is my wish for everyone who suffers...that we can all find the peace we need to

get past the injustices done against us.

(((((((((( KO's of Borderlines))))))))))

We all deserve a huge hug and pat on the back for enduring and always trying to

find the reason for things while feeling so messed up all the time, while trying

to lead the most normal and positive life possible for ourselves, spouses and

kids. Everyone says that life is so short, but for me, life is extremely long

because I suffer every day with this...even after 5 years with my therapist, I

understand all this stuff, but find it so hard to feel it internally...my mind

and heart just doesn't want to fully get it.

I hope one day to finally get it.

Amy

barrycove@...

[Guest guest]

(((Annie))) You describe so well the range of emotions I feel with nada, ESP the

deer in headlights. Deeeep breath.

It's hard. I know how you feel. We *want* our nadas to be moms. We've always

wanted that. But to let our guard down almost always meant guaranteed attack or

pain. So, to hear what you thought was your mother's voice, must've filled you

with so much emotion and even longing, in a way. Your aunt sounds like a nice

lady.

Not sure I've ever posted about this incident that happened to me: I was in the

supermarket and turned into an aisle and saw my mother's aunt and uncle. Annie,

my body seemed to go into automatic. I truly lost control of it. I felt outside

of myself. These were people my mother constantly felt betrayed by, she

villainized them, they were like characters in a Dickens novel. I got to know

them years ago and decided I didn't like them, they were too bossy and

hypocritical. But being around them in the past *always* stressed me, as though

I were around my mother. Anyway, back to the supermarket...I went into fight or

flight. I ran SO fast. My heart was beating out of my ears. But before I ran, I

saw that one of them had seen me. I was so embarrassed and absolutely

terrified. If I had had time to think about it, I would have stayed and done the

small talk and been done with it. Anyway, your reaction to your aunt's call

reminded me of that. I totally could have used a strong drink after that

incident!

I thought it was interesting that you described your nada as " Information

Central. " That is exactly how my mother was/is (like with her aunt/uncle). I

have no relationship with my extended family because of her constant need to be

in the middle and remind me not to mention this or that to her mother or her

sister, and especially try to remember that grandma likes it when you speak in

her language, blah blah blah. In other words, a relationship with them was/is as

stressful as one with her!

It's amazing how strongly and powerfully our bodies can react to something we

think in our minds is resolved or no longer relevant.

Hugs,

Fioan

>

> I just got " ambushed " by phone, but in a nice way. Well, in kind of a sad way

too, but ...poignant, I guess would be a better description.

>

> I pretty much never hear directly from my extended family, and never did: that

used to be my nada's " job " , being " Information Central " and relaying news from

family to family. My nada recently passed away, just before Christmas, so you

newbies understand the context.

>

> When my phone rang just a short while ago, I just picked it up without

looking, thinking it was probably a client.... and I thought I heard my mother's

voice saying my name,

> " ...Annie? "

> I froze. My heart stopped.

> " ...This is your Aunt M, sweetheart.... "

>

> My throat closed up with tears. I was flooded with mixed emotions, both

relief and nostalgia, because the pitch and tone and accent of my Aunt's voice

sounds SO much like my nada's. I'm still crying a little. One reason is

because it was just so sweet that my Aunt would call me just to ask how I am,

and say that she missed me and wished I lived closer to the rest of the extended

family. And the other reason is that, well, I was hit with a wave of both fear

and longing when for a split second I thought that was my mother calling me.

>

> My nada's voice, or an approximation of it, can still suddenly trigger me into

both " freeze like a deer in the headlights " mode, and yet fill me with a

nostalgic feeling of missing her, both at the same time. That felt SO bizarre.

>

> After a couple of moments I was able to gather my wits and have a lovely,

brief chat with Aunt M. But nowI think I need an adult beverage. I still feel

a little disoriented and my heart is pounding.

>

> That, people (those of you who might be reading this who are not KOs) is what

having a mother with borderline pd can do. I just turned 60 and yet the sound

of my bpd mother's voice can trigger me into feeling disoriented due to a of a

kind of flashback experience. I'm still PTSD-ing at my age and finding it hard

to believe. But Borderline pd is a serious mental illness and it can do

serious, long-term emotional damage to children left in the care of a parent

with moderate to severe untreated bpd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Amy)))) thank you. I hope that you can find more peace and healing too.

Its like, the public is finally realizing the level of damage that can happen to

soldiers in combat: the ptsd that used to be called " shell shock " from having

to deal with constant threat of being killed or maimed, always on guard, always

hyper-alert, and feeling responsible for things you can't control (like enemy

attacks) that kill or maim those whose safety you are responsible for, is all

too real. " Shell shock " can happen to police officers too, due to the constant,

daily threat of being exposed to violent physical attack or death, having to

deal humanely with people who would genuinely like nothing better than to kill

you, being under-valued or even despised by those you are protecting, etc.

Well, the public needs to know that in a similar process, the chronic,

relentless emotional abuse, neglect, or exploitation of a child (which is what

being a dependent child in the care of someone with borderline pd IS, for pete's

sake) can inflict similar devastating long-term damage.

As Doug says, may we all heal.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

> I wish that we could all remove the portions of our brains that carry all

these memories, triggers, sounds, smells so that we can enjoy what everyone

deserves as a human on this earth while we are alive...human rights.

>

>

> For all of us who have had our rights taken away by the person we

trusted...this is my wish for everyone who suffers...that we can all find the

peace we need to get past the injustices done against us.

>

>

> (((((((((( KO's of Borderlines))))))))))

> We all deserve a huge hug and pat on the back for enduring and always trying

to find the reason for things while feeling so messed up all the time, while

trying to lead the most normal and positive life possible for ourselves, spouses

and kids. Everyone says that life is so short, but for me, life is extremely

long because I suffer every day with this...even after 5 years with my

therapist, I understand all this stuff, but find it so hard to feel it

internally...my mind and heart just doesn't want to fully get it.

>

>

> I hope one day to finally get it.

>

>

> Amy

>

>

> barrycove@...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Fiona))))) I'm sorry you have experienced this too. I empathize with

you. I hope you will not beat yourself up for having that " flight " reaction,

and can forgive yourself.

Yes, it is kind of like a betrayal when our own bodies, seemingly all on their

own, decide to react in bizarre or painful ways, like " flight " or " freeze " mode,

or " debilitating, explosive migraine " reaction, etc. I guess that everything

that happens to us is stored in our subconscious, so deeply we have no conscious

awareness of some of it, but stored memories can be triggered by the right (or

wrong) circumstances.

What I am discovering is that for me, a real trigger of ptsd reactions is the

*unexpected.* A sudden, unexpected " ambush " can apparently bypass my conscious

defense and coping strategies and directly access my subconscious. (Just exactly

the same way that a sudden, loud, unexpected noise can trigger a flashback of

exploding ordinance in a combat veteran. I still have an exaggerated and

painful startle reaction to sudden loud noises, myself.)

I had learned as a child/young person that when nada suddenly attacked, that

either " fight " or " flight " was impossible and would just get me more intense and

prolonged physical or verbal abuse, so my only option was " freeze in place " and

just get through it without reacting. Turn into a rock until it was over.

It was a major breakthrough for me rather late in life to realize that I

actually COULD just calmly walk away from my nada when she was screaming abuse

at me, just leave, get in my car and go somewhere else. It felt so incredibly

empowering to do that. Its sad that I only discovered that in my late 40's,

after dad died, that I didn't have to just stand there and be nada's emotional

punching bag any longer. I had the both the *right* and the *power* to walk

away.

Its our own minds (due to a lifetime of conditioning/brainwashing beginning in

infancy) that keep us imprisoned; that's a powerful discovery.

And yes, I think our nadas like (liked) establishing themselves in that

" Information Central " position, because it is after all a power position:

controlling information, controlling who hears what about whom (and therefor

influencing their opinion) is very, VERY powerful position.

-Annie

>

> (((Annie))) You describe so well the range of emotions I feel with nada, ESP

the deer in headlights. Deeeep breath.

>

> It's hard. I know how you feel. We *want* our nadas to be moms. We've always

wanted that. But to let our guard down almost always meant guaranteed attack or

pain. So, to hear what you thought was your mother's voice, must've filled you

with so much emotion and even longing, in a way. Your aunt sounds like a nice

lady.

>

> Not sure I've ever posted about this incident that happened to me: I was in

the supermarket and turned into an aisle and saw my mother's aunt and uncle.

Annie, my body seemed to go into automatic. I truly lost control of it. I felt

outside of myself. These were people my mother constantly felt betrayed by, she

villainized them, they were like characters in a Dickens novel. I got to know

them years ago and decided I didn't like them, they were too bossy and

hypocritical. But being around them in the past *always* stressed me, as though

I were around my mother. Anyway, back to the supermarket...I went into fight or

flight. I ran SO fast. My heart was beating out of my ears. But before I ran, I

saw that one of them had seen me. I was so embarrassed and absolutely

terrified. If I had had time to think about it, I would have stayed and done the

small talk and been done with it. Anyway, your reaction to your aunt's call

reminded me of that. I totally could have used a strong drink after that

incident!

>

> I thought it was interesting that you described your nada as " Information

Central. " That is exactly how my mother was/is (like with her aunt/uncle). I

have no relationship with my extended family because of her constant need to be

in the middle and remind me not to mention this or that to her mother or her

sister, and especially try to remember that grandma likes it when you speak in

her language, blah blah blah. In other words, a relationship with them was/is as

stressful as one with her!

>

> It's amazing how strongly and powerfully our bodies can react to something we

think in our minds is resolved or no longer relevant.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Fioan