Slow Learner?

[Guest guest]

My dad called from the hospital about 7 times in 2 days this last week. I

believe I posted here the first day when he'd called twice. In order to

alleviate my guilt and remain the " responsible " family member, my husband (I

had laryngitis) called to speak to his nurse. We were told his condition is

improving, he's in great spirits, is still infectious, loves his Diet Cokes,

and the claims to family members that he was to have surgery on Monday but

it was cancelled, and that he will be hospitalized for 4 more weeks were

totally false. I relayed the info to my siblings via text. One sibling is

NC and the other is my brother and a master of detachment. My brother's

only reply was, " Rm# " and I sent it to him.

No more fada calls until this evening. The message (husband listens and

deletes and doesn't relate the stuff that will push my buttons) was simply,

I need to talk to you really really bad. " Ok....he needs to talk to me...

but it's not urgent or important enough to call ANYone except me. EVERYone

knows if they can't reach me, call my husband. Nor have I heard from my

mother and she wouldn't hesitate to call my husband or oldest son if

something important were needed. This tells me it's just more manipulation

and drama.

What bothers me so much is that my initial reaction to his message was, " If

I don't call him back, I'm going to be in trouble. " Hello? I'm almost 50

years old and I have a reflexive response that says I'm going to be IN

TROUBLE?

Next I went into paranoia over what he's telling everyone else (nurses,

family members, my mother, siblings, aunts, cousins, etc.) about the fact

that I'm not returning his " urgent " phone calls.

Fortunately, my oldest son (who was groomed by my dad just as I was - Fada's

baby had a baby and that baby had his stamp all over it) is living with us

right now and he and my husband brought me back down to a rational level of

thinking. My oldest son is almost 31. Our eyes were opened to fada's bpd

at the exact same time. He was NC - just because fada doesn't call or

contact him - and my son just stopped calling, too. But with this last

emergency " with my mother coming home and being unable to live alone, my son

jumped into help take some of the load off me - and got sucked back into his

g-fada's manipulation - which he put a quick stop to. My youngest son, who

is a very wise and loving young man - who loves his grandfather, but sees

through him - is 19 y/o and would try to help me see things from Gpa's point

of view....until he saw Gpa using me with no regard for my health. This

week I told him I was done - and I expected him to tell me that was extreme

- but his reply was simple and emphatic, " GOOD! I would have been done

weeks ago! " His girlfriend was helping my parents a couple times a week

before the hospitalizations and she began to see the dynamics right away.

She said if they call for her to come help again, she will be unable to.

Both she and my oldest and youngest sons feel we need to be united - not in

having no contact - but in forcing them to be adults who can take care and

responsibility for themselves - and not put ourselves in a position to be

used against each other.

I'm so upset with myself because my initial - almost automatic responses -

were fear of being in trouble and then paranoia about what people think -

and then the " what if this is the one time there IS something going on he

needs? " But if that were the case, his nurse would be calling me, not him.

And he'd be immediately following up with a call to my husband.

I may have mentioned that I could go talk to my mom but with my sister there

I cannot speak to her privately - and I know if I let my sister leave me

there alone with Mom, she wouldn't come back - and I'd be stuck again. My

sister is listening in on Mom's phone calls. My mom listens in on my

conversations with her health workers and caseworkers. She and my dad

fought over their checkbook because my dad wants me to deal with it and Mom

wants me to have nothing to do with it (my name is on all accounts so I can

take care of these things) - so her trust has greatly diminished. My mom

will not challenge or oppose my sister. My sister has been counter

productive to my mother's recovery - according to her caseworker and family

members. I cannot barge in and take over and tell them all what to do

unless I'm willing to stay there and see it through. I'm not.

My parents are grown ups. They are married. They do not need me to play

middle man or referee or deal with one for the other. I've done that my

entire life and I've finally started treating them like a man and wife - and

myself like a child, not a spare spouse. They are resentful of the things I

have done and am willing to do to help - and resentful of my not doing the

things they want me to. So, at this point I'm only doing the info gathering

I promised my brother I would do. He realizes I have guilt about putting

them in a nursing home because they have always assumed I would take care of

them. My brother has no such guilt and doesn't think I should give up my

life to take care of them. He told me, " Do what you can to the point where

it interferes with your life and then you've done all you can do and we'll

just have to tell them it's time to go somewhere else (facility). " That was

just before my health issues emerged. My brother has been supportive - even

tho he lives away, he did come for a week to help me with the initial

transition and " crisis " situation and plans to return later in the summer -

at which time he expects we'll be making a placement in a facility. He's

even taken on the task of broaching the subject of nursing home care so I

won't have to experience that guilt or have those buttons pushed. He doesn

t understand the dynamic, but he does understand my emotions get involved

whereas his do not. He is calm, controlled, detached, compassionate, but

decisive. The " Medium Chill " describes him perfectly - in his interactions

with everyone!

The fada calling me should NOT send me into a panic. It shouldn't bring

immediate fear and guilt. It shouldn't make me question whether it's

selfish to live my own life when he " needs me " . In fact, when he says, " I

need you real bad right now! " it actually means, " I need you more than

anything else, including yourself - so drop your life and devote yourself

wholly to mine. " How do you put yourself first when you've lived your

entire life putting them first and yourself last? How is it not selfish? I

was also raised to believe that if you like your job it's not real work and

you're just being lazy. How twisted is that? But when I do things I love

that are also very productive, I feel guilty. I'm just beginning to see how

much damage has been done to me over my lifetime. Being a Daddy's Girl,

thinking my mom didn't like me, having an alcoholic mother, believing my dad

was the only one who loved me - and that I was the only one who really loved

him and understood him, being basically an " only child " because all my

siblings were so much older they moved out while I was still pre-teen.

I don't know why I'm writing all this or where exactly I'm going with it. I

feel very weak that fada still effects me so strongly. All my life my

parents have rewritten reality and taught me not to trust what I see, think,

feel, or experience. Not when it conflicts with what they want me to see,

think, feel or believe. So, I question myself. I don't trust myself. He

(fada) has " cried wolf " so many times - and I know I'm not the only person

who can fill his needs. I'm just the only person he WANTS to fill his needs

I'm the only person he thinks he can manipulate and control to the extent

he needs to. I'm the sucker. I'm the one he can use up until there's

nothing left.

I've probably told you this....but in case I haven't, it does go along with

the last statement. Fada caused my stroke 7 years ago. The following

Sunday, sitting next to me in church, he leaned over and whispered, " I know

I caused your stroke, but I would do it again if I needed to. " All because

he demanded I schedule a test (MRI) on a certain day and when I got busy and

didn't get around to it, he RAGED (my dad is a rage-a-holic - currently

controlled by anti-depressant medication) and insulted and berated me until

I was sobbing uncontrollably and had to hang up the phone. I wasn't able to

feel the left side of my face at that point and when I got up to get the bp

cuff to check my vitals, I couldn't walk. He knows he caused the stroke -

but would do it again - for my own good. What kind of person does that? I

should have been finished right that minute and never looked back. I'm so

sorry I didn't.

Thanks for listening.

Mac

[Guest guest]

Oh honey, I am so sorry. That is awful, AWFUL, what he shared about having

caused your stroke, and having no remorse about that. I am thinking that is a

stroke of sadism there, that goes beyond...I don't know, that is just about

straight up sociopathic. I hope you have a therapist too that can validate you

if you need to cut ties with him right now. I am glad you have a supportive

husband and wise sons who see through him.

I hope you don't beat up too much on the little kid inside because you had the

initial reaction of being 'in trouble'. My father is a narcissistic rageaholic

as well, and I believe he likes to be feared. I think he gets off on people

being afraid of him. He is in the process of intimidating me right now over

issues with my mother.

I think it's important you give that little kid inside full freedom to feel

whatever she feels about your dad. He was great big and out of control, and you

were little and had no escape. Of course you are going to feel like you are 'in

trouble' because those feelings happened when your brain was forming, they are

probably ingrained in the gray matter and it's nothing you can control. To judge

yourself for a natural reactions seems unduly harsh. Hugs.

>

> My dad called from the hospital about 7 times in 2 days this last week. I

> believe I posted here the first day when he'd called twice. In order to

> alleviate my guilt and remain the " responsible " family member, my husband (I

> had laryngitis) called to speak to his nurse. We were told his condition is

> improving, he's in great spirits, is still infectious, loves his Diet Cokes,

> and the claims to family members that he was to have surgery on Monday but

> it was cancelled, and that he will be hospitalized for 4 more weeks were

> totally false. I relayed the info to my siblings via text. One sibling is

> NC and the other is my brother and a master of detachment. My brother's

> only reply was, " Rm# " and I sent it to him.

>

> No more fada calls until this evening. The message (husband listens and

> deletes and doesn't relate the stuff that will push my buttons) was simply,

> I need to talk to you really really bad. " Ok....he needs to talk to me...

> but it's not urgent or important enough to call ANYone except me. EVERYone

> knows if they can't reach me, call my husband. Nor have I heard from my

> mother and she wouldn't hesitate to call my husband or oldest son if

> something important were needed. This tells me it's just more manipulation

> and drama.

>

> What bothers me so much is that my initial reaction to his message was, " If

> I don't call him back, I'm going to be in trouble. " Hello? I'm almost 50

> years old and I have a reflexive response that says I'm going to be IN

> TROUBLE?

>

> Next I went into paranoia over what he's telling everyone else (nurses,

> family members, my mother, siblings, aunts, cousins, etc.) about the fact

> that I'm not returning his " urgent " phone calls.

>

> Fortunately, my oldest son (who was groomed by my dad just as I was - Fada's

> baby had a baby and that baby had his stamp all over it) is living with us

> right now and he and my husband brought me back down to a rational level of

> thinking. My oldest son is almost 31. Our eyes were opened to fada's bpd

> at the exact same time. He was NC - just because fada doesn't call or

> contact him - and my son just stopped calling, too. But with this last

> emergency " with my mother coming home and being unable to live alone, my son

> jumped into help take some of the load off me - and got sucked back into his

> g-fada's manipulation - which he put a quick stop to. My youngest son, who

> is a very wise and loving young man - who loves his grandfather, but sees

> through him - is 19 y/o and would try to help me see things from Gpa's point

> of view....until he saw Gpa using me with no regard for my health. This

> week I told him I was done - and I expected him to tell me that was extreme

> - but his reply was simple and emphatic, " GOOD! I would have been done

> weeks ago! " His girlfriend was helping my parents a couple times a week

> before the hospitalizations and she began to see the dynamics right away.

> She said if they call for her to come help again, she will be unable to.

> Both she and my oldest and youngest sons feel we need to be united - not in

> having no contact - but in forcing them to be adults who can take care and

> responsibility for themselves - and not put ourselves in a position to be

> used against each other.

>

> I'm so upset with myself because my initial - almost automatic responses -

> were fear of being in trouble and then paranoia about what people think -

> and then the " what if this is the one time there IS something going on he

> needs? " But if that were the case, his nurse would be calling me, not him.

> And he'd be immediately following up with a call to my husband.

>

> I may have mentioned that I could go talk to my mom but with my sister there

> I cannot speak to her privately - and I know if I let my sister leave me

> there alone with Mom, she wouldn't come back - and I'd be stuck again. My

> sister is listening in on Mom's phone calls. My mom listens in on my

> conversations with her health workers and caseworkers. She and my dad

> fought over their checkbook because my dad wants me to deal with it and Mom

> wants me to have nothing to do with it (my name is on all accounts so I can

> take care of these things) - so her trust has greatly diminished. My mom

> will not challenge or oppose my sister. My sister has been counter

> productive to my mother's recovery - according to her caseworker and family

> members. I cannot barge in and take over and tell them all what to do

> unless I'm willing to stay there and see it through. I'm not.

>

> My parents are grown ups. They are married. They do not need me to play

> middle man or referee or deal with one for the other. I've done that my

> entire life and I've finally started treating them like a man and wife - and

> myself like a child, not a spare spouse. They are resentful of the things I

> have done and am willing to do to help - and resentful of my not doing the

> things they want me to. So, at this point I'm only doing the info gathering

> I promised my brother I would do. He realizes I have guilt about putting

> them in a nursing home because they have always assumed I would take care of

> them. My brother has no such guilt and doesn't think I should give up my

> life to take care of them. He told me, " Do what you can to the point where

> it interferes with your life and then you've done all you can do and we'll

> just have to tell them it's time to go somewhere else (facility). " That was

> just before my health issues emerged. My brother has been supportive - even

> tho he lives away, he did come for a week to help me with the initial

> transition and " crisis " situation and plans to return later in the summer -

> at which time he expects we'll be making a placement in a facility. He's

> even taken on the task of broaching the subject of nursing home care so I

> won't have to experience that guilt or have those buttons pushed. He doesn

> t understand the dynamic, but he does understand my emotions get involved

> whereas his do not. He is calm, controlled, detached, compassionate, but

> decisive. The " Medium Chill " describes him perfectly - in his interactions

> with everyone!

>

> The fada calling me should NOT send me into a panic. It shouldn't bring

> immediate fear and guilt. It shouldn't make me question whether it's

> selfish to live my own life when he " needs me " . In fact, when he says, " I

> need you real bad right now! " it actually means, " I need you more than

> anything else, including yourself - so drop your life and devote yourself

> wholly to mine. " How do you put yourself first when you've lived your

> entire life putting them first and yourself last? How is it not selfish? I

> was also raised to believe that if you like your job it's not real work and

> you're just being lazy. How twisted is that? But when I do things I love

> that are also very productive, I feel guilty. I'm just beginning to see how

> much damage has been done to me over my lifetime. Being a Daddy's Girl,

> thinking my mom didn't like me, having an alcoholic mother, believing my dad

> was the only one who loved me - and that I was the only one who really loved

> him and understood him, being basically an " only child " because all my

> siblings were so much older they moved out while I was still pre-teen.

>

> I don't know why I'm writing all this or where exactly I'm going with it. I

> feel very weak that fada still effects me so strongly. All my life my

> parents have rewritten reality and taught me not to trust what I see, think,

> feel, or experience. Not when it conflicts with what they want me to see,

> think, feel or believe. So, I question myself. I don't trust myself. He

> (fada) has " cried wolf " so many times - and I know I'm not the only person

> who can fill his needs. I'm just the only person he WANTS to fill his needs

> I'm the only person he thinks he can manipulate and control to the extent

> he needs to. I'm the sucker. I'm the one he can use up until there's

> nothing left.

>

> I've probably told you this....but in case I haven't, it does go along with

> the last statement. Fada caused my stroke 7 years ago. The following

> Sunday, sitting next to me in church, he leaned over and whispered, " I know

> I caused your stroke, but I would do it again if I needed to. " All because

> he demanded I schedule a test (MRI) on a certain day and when I got busy and

> didn't get around to it, he RAGED (my dad is a rage-a-holic - currently

> controlled by anti-depressant medication) and insulted and berated me until

> I was sobbing uncontrollably and had to hang up the phone. I wasn't able to

> feel the left side of my face at that point and when I got up to get the bp

> cuff to check my vitals, I couldn't walk. He knows he caused the stroke -

> but would do it again - for my own good. What kind of person does that? I

> should have been finished right that minute and never looked back. I'm so

> sorry I didn't.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

> Mac

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the reply. I hadn't considered any " inner child " aspects of

what I'm going through. Don't know much about that, but get the general

concept. I think I've been feeling like he shouldn't have any effect on me

at all. But how do you undo 40-something years of this kind of craziness

all at once? Obviously it doesn't work that way. It will take time. It's

going to be a process. In the absence of therapy (can't afford), I think I

ll check and see if there are any ACOA, or CODA support groups in the area.

Those should be applicable and helpful, right?

By the way, I've been fearing what my dad may be telling my brother about

not being able to reach me - and afraid my brother would confront me. I

heard from him today - just a typical text updating me on his contact with

dad...and if anything's been mentioned to my brother, it didn't merit him

mentioning it to me. In fact, my brother is still fully expecting both

parents to be in a nursing home - like it or not - very soon - and the

sooner, the better.

-- Re: Slow Learner?

Oh honey, I am so sorry. That is awful, AWFUL, what he shared about having

caused your stroke, and having no remorse about that. I am thinking that is

a stroke of sadism there, that goes beyond...I don't know, that is just

about straight up sociopathic. I hope you have a therapist too that can

validate you if you need to cut ties with him right now. I am glad you have

a supportive husband and wise sons who see through him.

I hope you don't beat up too much on the little kid inside because you had

the initial reaction of being 'in trouble'. My father is a narcissistic

rageaholic as well, and I believe he likes to be feared. I think he gets off

on people being afraid of him. He is in the process of intimidating me right

now over issues with my mother.

I think it's important you give that little kid inside full freedom to feel

whatever she feels about your dad. He was great big and out of control, and you

were little and had no escape. Of course you are going to feel like you are 'in

trouble' because those feelings happened when your brain was forming, they are

probably ingrained in the gray matter and it's nothing you can control. To judge

yourself for a natural reactions seems unduly harsh. Hugs.

[Guest guest]

yes both of those groups would be helpful in separating out their stuff from

your stuff and getting validation. I want to attend coda, the only one around

here is at 10:30 am on saturday and I am so not a morning person so I have been

planning for months to do and can never get up in time. It sucks to have anxiety

over two different family memebers coming at you at once, having just one family

member to worry about is enough. I can relate because my sister can be

completely uninvolved in ANYTHING having to do with my parents (which she pretty

much has been since she moved away in her early 20'a) and still cop a

judgemental attitude and make me want to knock her out. She is the 'good'

daughter so it's her prerogative to always be judge and jury no matter that she

stays uninvolved and has no clue (and doesn't care) what is going on. Your

brother is lucky you are even still involved with your family after having been

on the receiving end of such evil treatment. I hope for your sake and the sake

of your health the matters are settled soon and they are both tucked away in

homes and out of your hair.

>

> Thank you for the reply. I hadn't considered any " inner child " aspects of

> what I'm going through. Don't know much about that, but get the general

> concept. I think I've been feeling like he shouldn't have any effect on me

> at all. But how do you undo 40-something years of this kind of craziness

> all at once? Obviously it doesn't work that way. It will take time. It's

> going to be a process. In the absence of therapy (can't afford), I think I

> ll check and see if there are any ACOA, or CODA support groups in the area.

> Those should be applicable and helpful, right?

>

> By the way, I've been fearing what my dad may be telling my brother about

> not being able to reach me - and afraid my brother would confront me. I

> heard from him today - just a typical text updating me on his contact with

> dad...and if anything's been mentioned to my brother, it didn't merit him

> mentioning it to me. In fact, my brother is still fully expecting both

> parents to be in a nursing home - like it or not - very soon - and the

> sooner, the better.

>

>

>

>

> -- Re: Slow Learner?

>

>

> Oh honey, I am so sorry. That is awful, AWFUL, what he shared about having

> caused your stroke, and having no remorse about that. I am thinking that is

> a stroke of sadism there, that goes beyond...I don't know, that is just

> about straight up sociopathic. I hope you have a therapist too that can

> validate you if you need to cut ties with him right now. I am glad you have

> a supportive husband and wise sons who see through him.

>

> I hope you don't beat up too much on the little kid inside because you had

> the initial reaction of being 'in trouble'. My father is a narcissistic

> rageaholic as well, and I believe he likes to be feared. I think he gets off

> on people being afraid of him. He is in the process of intimidating me right

> now over issues with my mother.

>

> I think it's important you give that little kid inside full freedom to feel

whatever she feels about your dad. He was great big and out of control, and you

were little and had no escape. Of course you are going to feel like you are 'in

trouble' because those feelings happened when your brain was forming, they are

probably ingrained in the gray matter and it's nothing you can control. To judge

yourself for a natural reactions seems unduly harsh. Hugs.

>

>