Re: Mildred Pearce! Avoid!

[Guest guest]

Sorry - I spelled the title wrong, it's Mildred Pierce.

And here's the link to the full review of it:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-hbos-mildred-pierce\

-drags-kate-winslet-through-a-long-frustrating-story

Terri

[Guest guest]

Well, we all make mistakes.

This story depicts a kind of bizarre reverse " alternate universe " to the one

that this Group is set up to support, in which the mother is (mostly) non-bpd

and suffers chronic, horrific emotional abuse from her Witch/Queen daughter.

My impression was that Veda, the daughter, was more narcissistic than

borderline. I have watched the earlier version of this story, the one with Joan

Crawford as Mildred.

Maybe she will forget about this story, eventually.

-Annie

>

> Oh My God! Why oh why did I do this??

>

> I bought this HBO Miniseries for my mother as a gift for her birthday. I

didn't know anything about it, just that it won awards, and was a depression era

miniseries about a single mother. I thought it would appeal to her. It did. She

LOVED it. Loved it so much that she insisted on giving it to me to watch. Which

I just finished the third episode, and right now I am so sick to my stomach!

Read the below review excerpt to understand why. I GAVE THIS TO MY NADA!!!! She

already thinks it's all my fault and she's a saint and I'm the evil child. I

just gave it to her in film! Argh!

>

>

>

> " The miniseries is the story of how Mildred (Winslet) goes from being a

destitute, divorced single mom to a successful (and promiscuous) businesswoman,

always struggling to win the respect and love of her horribly snooty daughter

Veda. And as played first by , then in the final two chapters by

Evan Wood, Veda is so radiantly unpleasant that only a complete sap would

fail to see that she's rotten to the core and not worth so much sacrifice and

angst. Parental love can blind you to your kid's faults for a while, but not for

year after year, not after everything Veda says and does over the course of the

story.

>

> And as played by Winslet, Mildred is very far from a sap. She's a tough

cookie, savvy negotiator and survivalist - the material about her rise from

desperate waitress to thriving restaurateur is the miniseries' highlight - and

she doesn't even play her as if she has a blind spot for her eldest daughter.

There's scene after scene of Mildred looking like she knows just how toxic Veda

is, yet the demands of the story require her to again and again make decisions

that fly against what we can see on Winslet's face. It's supposed to be a tale

of maternal obsession, but instead 90% of the miniseries features a wise

character who randomly becomes self-destructively in thrall to her emotional

vampire of a daughter for the other 10%.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching it

first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It won't

make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a week or

two.

It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that someone

does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent the

message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality that

I live with.

When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look at it as

a black-humor joke.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Don't you love how our nadas can't tell a fictional movie from reality?

My nada literally thinks she's Sally Field and her whole life has been like

Steel Magnolias. It's just ridiculous how much she equates her life to a movie

of the week and tries to perform interventions, etc on people whom she thinks

have addictions or problems.

I remember when she tried to do an intervention on me and I literally said to

her " nada, this isn't a movie of the week " .

I wouldn't mention the dvd to her at all, just try to avoid the subject. If she

brings it up, just say " I'm glad you enjoyed it. " And then change the subject.

If she wants you to watch it, just say thanks but I don't have time right now.

Keep singing that song until she moves onto something else. Just like with a

child.

Sorry that a gift backfired on you. But it really doesn't have to be that way.

Remember that you can't control how she reacts to things. You didn't reinforce

anything. She wants her warped reality to be validated, so she will find that

wherever she wants it to be.

It's funny, anything with Joan Crawford I watch and can't help but think about

the stories about her in Mommie Dearest from her daughter .

Anyways, I think you are feeling anxiety because of this because you want to

take responsibility for her perception of you. You can't control her

perceptions.

Just keep reminding yourself that. You can't control what she thinks and feels

and you aren't responsible for it.

>

> Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching it

first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It won't

make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a week or

two.

>

> It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that someone

does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent the

message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality that

I live with.

>

> When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look at it

as a black-humor joke.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, thanks, I think that that's true. I do, at some level, want to change her

perceptions of me. I want her to see me as I am, which she has never been able

to do.

It is also about control. I've worked very hard to let go of it, to let her act

and think how she wants and not get caught up in trying to change it.

Thanks

> >

> > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching it

first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It won't

make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a week or

two.

> >

> > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that someone

does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent the

message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality that

I live with.

> >

> > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look at

it as a black-humor joke.

> >

> > Terri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, hope I wasn't too harsh. I only have one hand to type with right now, so

I'm probably coming off very blunt.

Our first reaction as KOs is to always feel responsible for how someone else

reacts or feels, and it's kind of funny because there really is no way in the

world we could ever control that, unless we could hypnotize them or something.

I have to frequently say that mantra over and over in my head " I cannot control

so and so's feelings. I am not responsible for how they feel. " It's the only way

I can act even somewhat normal. I sometimes see other people who clearly don't

care how others react (but not like being jerks just totally comfortable with

allowing people to feel what they will feel and not be responsible for it) and I

am so jealous of them.

I have to remind myself all the time that what other people think of me not only

doesn't really matter (because only what I think of me should matter) but it's

really none of my business. They have the right to think whatever they want.

That's the hard part that's sort of like fleas. Our nadas taught us we didn't

have the right to our own thoughts, and so we have that imprinted on us that we

can change how people think. In reality, changing someone's perception is one of

the most difficult things to do. Look at someone who is racist, for example.

Have you ever tried to talk a racist out of being racist? It's impossible,

because you can't change perception.

So try not to be too hard on yourself, and try to keep that mantra in your head

(and hold onto your sanity).

Good luck!

> > >

> > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching it

first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It won't

make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a week or

two.

> > >

> > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > >

> > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look at

it as a black-humor joke.

> > >

> > > Terri

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, that sucks. Of course your nada sees it this way.

On the other hand, you should have seen my nada FUME when I purchased and

watched Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood! It was priceless! She was

certain I did it to send her a message. I really don't remember if I had already

seen it or not before that. LOL

C

[Guest guest]

Next time you should have sent her True Blood or better yet, US of Tara!

And for those of you who are familiar with US of Tara--you could gift it to her

while wearing a red rain poncho ;-)

>

> Oh My God! Why oh why did I do this??

>

> I bought this HBO Miniseries for my mother as a gift for her birthday. I

didn't know anything about it, just that it won awards, and was a depression era

miniseries about a single mother. I thought it would appeal to her. It did. She

LOVED it. Loved it so much that she insisted on giving it to me to watch. Which

I just finished the third episode, and right now I am so sick to my stomach!

Read the below review excerpt to understand why. I GAVE THIS TO MY NADA!!!! She

already thinks it's all my fault and she's a saint and I'm the evil child. I

just gave it to her in film! Argh!

>

>

>

> " The miniseries is the story of how Mildred (Winslet) goes from being a

destitute, divorced single mom to a successful (and promiscuous) businesswoman,

always struggling to win the respect and love of her horribly snooty daughter

Veda. And as played first by , then in the final two chapters by

Evan Wood, Veda is so radiantly unpleasant that only a complete sap would

fail to see that she's rotten to the core and not worth so much sacrifice and

angst. Parental love can blind you to your kid's faults for a while, but not for

year after year, not after everything Veda says and does over the course of the

story.

>

> And as played by Winslet, Mildred is very far from a sap. She's a tough

cookie, savvy negotiator and survivalist - the material about her rise from

desperate waitress to thriving restaurateur is the miniseries' highlight - and

she doesn't even play her as if she has a blind spot for her eldest daughter.

There's scene after scene of Mildred looking like she knows just how toxic Veda

is, yet the demands of the story require her to again and again make decisions

that fly against what we can see on Winslet's face. It's supposed to be a tale

of maternal obsession, but instead 90% of the miniseries features a wise

character who randomly becomes self-destructively in thrall to her emotional

vampire of a daughter for the other 10%.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

No - you weren't harsh. I am always happy to hear the opinions of people who

have experienced the same things, and have thought it out for themselves.

I wonder if that's why everyone on this board is so nice - at least in my

experiences here. We're all so conditioned to worrying about what other people

think. Anyway, that certainly rang true for me.

I would like to add, That I think it's really sad that expecting the woman who

raised me to see me for who I am, and to not think of me as the evil persecutor,

with herself as the victim, is asking too much.

I try and keep an emotional distance from her. There are many topics that are

off limits and many times that I just ignore things that she says that are so

off-base. I am more just mad at myself for walking into this one without

realizing it. I'm usually so careful. oh well.

Thanks for your insights,

Terri

> > > >

> > > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching

it first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It

won't make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a

week or two.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > > >

> > > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look

at it as a black-humor joke.

> > > >

> > > > Terri

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I totally understand! It's hard to come to terms with the fact that we didn't

really have mothers, in a lot of ways, or at all for some of us, depending on

the severity of their illness,

Try not to be too hard on yourself or beat yourself up about it. You've had it

hard enough already.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without

watching it first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious

level. It won't make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and

validated for a week or two.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > > > >

> > > > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just

look at it as a black-humor joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > Terri

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your story made me cringe Terri, I'm so sorry. You just accidentally gave a

wheelbarrow of icy snowballs to the neighborhood bully. You could tell her that

you think the story is genius because it's usually the mother who's abusive and

it shows how hard it is to be mistreated by someone who ought to respect you-

kind of like that Travolta movie where the white Americans were the

persecuted minority race. And then give here Mommie Dearest next year.

My nada's favorite NPD hobby is scanning the environment for stories of

self-centered daughters who tearfully admit that their sainted mothers were

right all along. She also very much enjoys put-upon mothers with ungrateful

children and (especially) mothers who are overbearing and intrusive yet loved

and revered by their children. My refusing to join in with her crowing and

cackling is proof that I know she's right and am too ashamed to admit it.

Stories of abusive mothers are good too though, because she can point out that

I'm soooo lucky that she never locked me in a closet without food for a week.

Thanks for the food Nada!

, those are such good points, and for me they get exactly to the heart

of the long-term damage that N/BPD parents do. I'm trying very hard to absorb

the ideas that other people are not expecting and demanding that I fix their

feelings, and that other people will not be hurt and angry if I think or feel

something different from what they expect. Interesting that you bring up

racists. I find political and religious arguments extremely upsetting, because

I feel powerless to change anyone's mind and I resent that they are trying to

change mine. I hadn't seen that connection before.

Back to movies- check out " Notes on a Scandal " if you haven't. I was stalked

by a BPD " friend " (yeah, long story), and Judy Dench has it captured perfectly.

Shudder.

-ine

> > > >

> > > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without watching

it first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious level. It

won't make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and validated for a

week or two.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > > >

> > > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just look

at it as a black-humor joke.

> > > >

> > > > Terri

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've already noticed my familiar pattern in people here, of " I didn't mean to

sound... " or " please don't take this as... " Of course we automatically assume

that we can and should control how people react to our words. My immediate

impulse after typing that sentence was to follow it with " I really don't mean to

speak for anyone else though. " Ha!

Have you noticed the reverse pattern too? I get really pissed off when people

say " I didn't mean to make you feel... " or " don't take this the wrong way. "

Don't assume you know what I feel! Don't tell me how to feel! (I'm sorry Nada,

of course you're right. I AM feeling anxious. I WAS trying to annoy you when I

said I wasn't. Please don't be angry anymore. I love you for helping me deal

with " my " difficult feelings. I'm sorry for being anxious, I'm sorry for

denying it. I " m sorry.)

It's so sad that I feel burdened by other people's genuine empathy. When

someone offers a guess as to how I feel or what I think, I assume that they're

demanding that I validate their interpretation. It feels like being bullied and

I resent it immediately. Either they'll gloat if I tell them they're right, or

they'll be angry and won't believe me if I tell them they're wrong. So I get

defensive and argue, or agree and then sulk and fume secretly. And that's how I

keep kind, healthy people out of my life.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without

watching it first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious

level. It won't make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and

validated for a week or two.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > > > >

> > > > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just

look at it as a black-humor joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > Terri

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Tre3--that is so mortifying! I'm sorry you went through it. Maybe it will

make you feel better to remember that if you hadn't given her the ammo, your

nada would have found it somewhere else. Also, even if the series had been

about an abusive mother instead, your nada still would have found a way to make

herself the victim (casting you as the mother and herself as the little girl in

her head, perhaps, and presenting it in a way that made sense to her). When it

comes to abuse, where there's a nada, there's a way!

--Charlie

> >

> > Oh My God! Why oh why did I do this??

> >

> > I bought this HBO Miniseries for my mother as a gift for her birthday. I

didn't know anything about it, just that it won awards, and was a depression era

miniseries about a single mother. I thought it would appeal to her. It did. She

LOVED it. Loved it so much that she insisted on giving it to me to watch. Which

I just finished the third episode, and right now I am so sick to my stomach!

Read the below review excerpt to understand why. I GAVE THIS TO MY NADA!!!! She

already thinks it's all my fault and she's a saint and I'm the evil child. I

just gave it to her in film! Argh!

> >

> >

> >

> > " The miniseries is the story of how Mildred (Winslet) goes from being a

destitute, divorced single mom to a successful (and promiscuous) businesswoman,

always struggling to win the respect and love of her horribly snooty daughter

Veda. And as played first by , then in the final two chapters by

Evan Wood, Veda is so radiantly unpleasant that only a complete sap would

fail to see that she's rotten to the core and not worth so much sacrifice and

angst. Parental love can blind you to your kid's faults for a while, but not for

year after year, not after everything Veda says and does over the course of the

story.

> >

> > And as played by Winslet, Mildred is very far from a sap. She's a tough

cookie, savvy negotiator and survivalist - the material about her rise from

desperate waitress to thriving restaurateur is the miniseries' highlight - and

she doesn't even play her as if she has a blind spot for her eldest daughter.

There's scene after scene of Mildred looking like she knows just how toxic Veda

is, yet the demands of the story require her to again and again make decisions

that fly against what we can see on Winslet's face. It's supposed to be a tale

of maternal obsession, but instead 90% of the miniseries features a wise

character who randomly becomes self-destructively in thrall to her emotional

vampire of a daughter for the other 10%.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, if this were a conversation in person, I probably wouldn't say that, but

when I'm typing with one hand due to an injury, things come off short. And I

always feel like there's a lot of room for misinterpretation on the internet.

And there have been times of miscommunication on this board, so sometimes I feel

like I've been way too blunt. We've all been invalidated so much, I don't want

anyone to feel like my suggestion is every meant to invalidate them

But I know what you mean. As KOs, we are so afraid of saying the wrong thing.

Sigh, it's a process though. I think it's okay for us all to be careful here. We

are trying to be respectful of where each of us is in the process of healing,

and sometimes you might not be ready to hear what someone has to say. That

definitely has happened to me before.

But you are right: we can't control how someone might react or feel about

anything. I just try to remember that whenever someone comments on something

I've brought to the board that I have to decide what's right for me.

I just wish I could communicate like a normal person without having to work so

hard for it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, the lesson here is just to not give her something without

watching it first. I'm not sure she even made the connection on a conscious

level. It won't make a difference now, except that she'll feel happy and

validated for a week or two.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's not a bad story in and of itself, it must happen of course that

someone does have to parent a PD child. I'm just mad that I inadvertently sent

the message that her upside-down world view is correct, instead of the reality

that I live with.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When I told my partner what I had done, she laughed. I should just

look at it as a black-humor joke.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terri

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can see why you felt sick to your stomach. I imagine my mother would use it

against me that way, too.

off topic: It's one of my favorite movies, the original with Joan Crawford. I'd

love to see how Kate Winslet handled the role. I hated the daughter by the end

of the movie. Yes, I agree, never give this movie to a PD parent!!! It will be

used against you!

>

> Oh My God! Why oh why did I do this??

>

> I bought this HBO Miniseries for my mother as a gift for her birthday. I

didn't know anything about it, just that it won awards, and was a depression era

miniseries about a single mother. I thought it would appeal to her. It did. She

LOVED it. Loved it so much that she insisted on giving it to me to watch. Which

I just finished the third episode, and right now I am so sick to my stomach!

Read the below review excerpt to understand why. I GAVE THIS TO MY NADA!!!! She

already thinks it's all my fault and she's a saint and I'm the evil child. I

just gave it to her in film! Argh!

>

>

>

> " The miniseries is the story of how Mildred (Winslet) goes from being a

destitute, divorced single mom to a successful (and promiscuous) businesswoman,

always struggling to win the respect and love of her horribly snooty daughter

Veda. And as played first by , then in the final two chapters by

Evan Wood, Veda is so radiantly unpleasant that only a complete sap would

fail to see that she's rotten to the core and not worth so much sacrifice and

angst. Parental love can blind you to your kid's faults for a while, but not for

year after year, not after everything Veda says and does over the course of the

story.

>

> And as played by Winslet, Mildred is very far from a sap. She's a tough

cookie, savvy negotiator and survivalist - the material about her rise from

desperate waitress to thriving restaurateur is the miniseries' highlight - and

she doesn't even play her as if she has a blind spot for her eldest daughter.

There's scene after scene of Mildred looking like she knows just how toxic Veda

is, yet the demands of the story require her to again and again make decisions

that fly against what we can see on Winslet's face. It's supposed to be a tale

of maternal obsession, but instead 90% of the miniseries features a wise

character who randomly becomes self-destructively in thrall to her emotional

vampire of a daughter for the other 10%.

>

[Guest guest]

Echobabe,

LOL, I remember that episode. I borrowed season 1 from the library. When I

realized it was that alter that did that and not the father, I was just like

talk about a very primal and direct message! WOW.

C

> >

> > Oh My God! Why oh why did I do this??

> >

> > I bought this HBO Miniseries for my mother as a gift for her birthday. I

didn't know anything about it, just that it won awards, and was a depression era

miniseries about a single mother. I thought it would appeal to her. It did. She

LOVED it. Loved it so much that she insisted on giving it to me to watch. Which

I just finished the third episode, and right now I am so sick to my stomach!

Read the below review excerpt to understand why. I GAVE THIS TO MY NADA!!!! She

already thinks it's all my fault and she's a saint and I'm the evil child. I

just gave it to her in film! Argh!

> >

> >

> >

> > " The miniseries is the story of how Mildred (Winslet) goes from being a

destitute, divorced single mom to a successful (and promiscuous) businesswoman,

always struggling to win the respect and love of her horribly snooty daughter

Veda. And as played first by , then in the final two chapters by

Evan Wood, Veda is so radiantly unpleasant that only a complete sap would

fail to see that she's rotten to the core and not worth so much sacrifice and

angst. Parental love can blind you to your kid's faults for a while, but not for

year after year, not after everything Veda says and does over the course of the

story.

> >

> > And as played by Winslet, Mildred is very far from a sap. She's a tough

cookie, savvy negotiator and survivalist - the material about her rise from

desperate waitress to thriving restaurateur is the miniseries' highlight - and

she doesn't even play her as if she has a blind spot for her eldest daughter.

There's scene after scene of Mildred looking like she knows just how toxic Veda

is, yet the demands of the story require her to again and again make decisions

that fly against what we can see on Winslet's face. It's supposed to be a tale

of maternal obsession, but instead 90% of the miniseries features a wise

character who randomly becomes self-destructively in thrall to her emotional

vampire of a daughter for the other 10%.

> >

>