Re: So tired. Would love to go NC

March 3, 2012

Just go NC. The guilt will pass and you'll get your life back. She's

already saying you're terrible, prove her right.

> **

>

> I'm 59 years old, still reacting to my nada's garbage. Spent most of my

> life being afraid of her, afraid of her anger, her control. Finally found

> out about BPD just a couple years ago. That helps but still, my gut reacts

> to her games.

>

> My nada is 83, alone, treated my Dad like crap even when he was dying. And

> yet some part of me thinks she deserves some bit of respect and compassion

> because she's old and alone and a miserable old hag. What is wrong with me?

>

> She's been very sick. Last week she had a colonoscopy, found out her

> colitis has flared up, first time in about 20 years. Hubby and I spent 10

> hours with her that day after the test because she was so groggy and weak.

> The very next day she tears into us because hubby had made a comment to the

> neighbors that I was helping her get cleaned up for bed, she's very tired.

> That whole week she was a beast. Needing me because of her bleeding and

> weakness yet so cruel. It felt like I was her emotional toy yo-yo. She'd

> call me over and over again, needing my help but then snap and tell me

> don't come over.

>

> Got that on Monday when I normally visit. Called, said don't come over.

> Tuesday she was fine on the phone. Thursday she needed me to do grocery

> shopping. I did, plus she was strong enough to go out to lunch. Seemed

> fine. Today I call, normal Sat. call and she's rude. Said, " I can't talk

> right now. " I heard the TV in the background, asked if she had company. She

> said no. I asked if she wanted me to call back later. She said no, goodbye

> and hung up.

>

> I keep telling myself, don't react. This is nothing new. She loves being

> in control. But my guts are churning. I want to go NC with her but I'm such

> a chicken. Why doesn't she just once tell me don't ever call again like she

> does with others? I would love to hear those words. I just don't have the

> guts to be cruel to her and cut her off the way she does to me.

>

> And those of you who do go NC, how do you deal with the lies they tell

> about you to others? I've already been lied about. The doctor's office

> heard we were taking financial advantage of her. Had to deal with Adult

> Protection Services. It was a bunch of baloney of course; we have no access

> to her money in any way. The one neighbor she's still talking to thinks

> we're abusive. Whatever.

>

> I'm so tired of this.

>

March 3, 2012

I feel for you, its just a no-win situation to be in.

I know how draining being a care-giver for a bpd mother can be. Back about 15

years ago I took unpaid leave from work to care for my nada when she needed

major surgery, and I was there with her 24/7 for about 10 weeks, and at the end

of that time I was, I'm pretty sure, clinically depressed and drained even

though I didn't receive nearly the severe level of emotional abuse you are

describing.

My Sister took on the job of part-time care-giver for our nada after dad died,

particularly after nada stopped driving due to poor vision. But over that

decade, Nada/mother was so emotionally abusive to my Sister, criticizing her

and being ugly to her for all that time, that Sister had to go into therapy for

depression.

I don't know what to tell you, that will help.

With her therapist's help, my Sister was able to cut way back on the amount of

time she spent with our nada, without guilt.

But about 18 months ago our nada began displaying behaviors such as

hallucinating and doing dangerous things such as wandering around outside at

night, that became more frequent and intense. The result: nada was formally

diagnosed with senile dementia. Sister was able to gain legal guardianship of

our nada and have nada relocated to a residential care home with an Alzheimer's

wing.

It was only at that point, when nada was declared a danger to herself and others

due to senile dementia, that my Sister had some relief. Once our nada was being

supervised 24/7 at the residential care home to keep her from wandering at

night, and given medications under supervision to keep her from being violent or

quite so extremely paranoid and delusional... once that was in place my Sister

could finally relax a little.

I hope for you that some relief will find its way to you soon. If you have the

option of therapy available to you, I suggest it would be a help to you,

particularly if you can find a therapist who understands how sad and horrific it

is to have a parent with personality disorder who is now aged and infirm, yet

still toxically abusive.

-Annie

>

> I'm 59 years old, still reacting to my nada's garbage. Spent most of my life

being afraid of her, afraid of her anger, her control. Finally found out about

BPD just a couple years ago. That helps but still, my gut reacts to her games.

>

> My nada is 83, alone, treated my Dad like crap even when he was dying. And yet

some part of me thinks she deserves some bit of respect and compassion because

she's old and alone and a miserable old hag. What is wrong with me?

>

> She's been very sick. Last week she had a colonoscopy, found out her colitis

has flared up, first time in about 20 years. Hubby and I spent 10 hours with her

that day after the test because she was so groggy and weak. The very next day

she tears into us because hubby had made a comment to the neighbors that I was

helping her get cleaned up for bed, she's very tired. That whole week she was a

beast. Needing me because of her bleeding and weakness yet so cruel. It felt

like I was her emotional toy yo-yo. She'd call me over and over again, needing

my help but then snap and tell me don't come over.

>

> Got that on Monday when I normally visit. Called, said don't come over.

Tuesday she was fine on the phone. Thursday she needed me to do grocery

shopping. I did, plus she was strong enough to go out to lunch. Seemed fine.

Today I call, normal Sat. call and she's rude. Said, " I can't talk right now. " I

heard the TV in the background, asked if she had company. She said no. I asked

if she wanted me to call back later. She said no, goodbye and hung up.

>

> I keep telling myself, don't react. This is nothing new. She loves being in

control. But my guts are churning. I want to go NC with her but I'm such a

chicken. Why doesn't she just once tell me don't ever call again like she does

with others? I would love to hear those words. I just don't have the guts to be

cruel to her and cut her off the way she does to me.

>

> And those of you who do go NC, how do you deal with the lies they tell about

you to others? I've already been lied about. The doctor's office heard we were

taking financial advantage of her. Had to deal with Adult Protection Services.

It was a bunch of baloney of course; we have no access to her money in any way.

The one neighbor she's still talking to thinks we're abusive. Whatever.

>

> I'm so tired of this.

>

March 3, 2012

You're in a terrible situation, and I " ve been in a similar one. You want to go

NC, if she was younger you could, but would you be able to live with yourself if

you did now that she's aging?

That's the position I was in. I desperately wanted out but knew I would never be

able to look at myself in the mirror if I essentially abandoned an elderly,

demented mother.

Of course if she had been as abusive as some of the nadas I read about on here

it would have happened years earlier - that makes a huge difference. But

unfortunately there comes a point where it's like a teeter totter, we are

balancing between the simple human responsibility of making sure that an aged

and infirm woman is not abandoned in what could be dire circumstances and our

own sanity.

It's just an awful decision, no two ways about it. In my case I managed to get

aides and turned a hardened ear to her complaints about them. Then when she had

slipped further into dementia I cornered an emergency room doctor, female and

around my age, and spilled my guts, literally. I was almost in tears as I begged

her to insist that nada go into a nursing home. And she agreed - she said it was

time and the deed was done and I never looked back.

Now I can go visit her once a month or every six weeks, whenever I want (or

start to feel guilty) and there is no real stress because she's so demented

she's become pleasant and hasn't got a disagreeable bone in her body where I'm

concerned. With all my heart, Irene, I hope that something along these lines

happens for you, truly.

>

> >

> > I'm 59 years old, still reacting to my nada's garbage. Spent most of my life

being afraid of her, afraid of her anger, her control. Finally found out about

BPD just a couple years ago. That helps but still, my gut reacts to her games.

> >

> > My nada is 83, alone, treated my Dad like crap even when he was dying. And

yet some part of me thinks she deserves some bit of respect and compassion

because she's old and alone and a miserable old hag. What is wrong with me?

> >

> > She's been very sick. Last week she had a colonoscopy, found out her colitis

has flared up, first time in about 20 years. Hubby and I spent 10 hours with her

that day after the test because she was so groggy and weak. The very next day

she tears into us because hubby had made a comment to the neighbors that I was

helping her get cleaned up for bed, she's very tired. That whole week she was a

beast. Needing me because of her bleeding and weakness yet so cruel. It felt

like I was her emotional toy yo-yo. She'd call me over and over again, needing

my help but then snap and tell me don't come over.

> >

> > Got that on Monday when I normally visit. Called, said don't come over.

Tuesday she was fine on the phone. Thursday she needed me to do grocery

shopping. I did, plus she was strong enough to go out to lunch. Seemed fine.

Today I call, normal Sat. call and she's rude. Said, " I can't talk right now. " I

heard the TV in the background, asked if she had company. She said no. I asked

if she wanted me to call back later. She said no, goodbye and hung up.

> >

> > I keep telling myself, don't react. This is nothing new. She loves being in

control. But my guts are churning. I want to go NC with her but I'm such a

chicken. Why doesn't she just once tell me don't ever call again like she does

with others? I would love to hear those words. I just don't have the guts to be

cruel to her and cut her off the way she does to me.

> >

> > And those of you who do go NC, how do you deal with the lies they tell about

you to others? I've already been lied about. The doctor's office heard we were

taking financial advantage of her. Had to deal with Adult Protection Services.

It was a bunch of baloney of course; we have no access to her money in any way.

The one neighbor she's still talking to thinks we're abusive. Whatever.

> >

> > I'm so tired of this.

> >

>

> __._,.

>

March 3, 2012

My heart really goes out to you. I've been the subject of my nada's smear

tactics and vicious lies, and I've just grown numb to it all. The truth is that

no matter how " good " you are, she's still going to say those awful things about

you because it gets her attention and pity.

The thing that jumped out at me in your post was that you normally visit on

Monday's. Borderline's love to get you on a schedule. My nada always tried to

get me to commit to Sunday phone calls. I refused. Can you at least limit your

contact and visit her when it's convenient for you, if at all?

No matter how hard you try, no matter how good you are to her, you can't control

her behavior. Try to release yourself from that burden. If that means going NC,

then do it. I went NC for a year, and then have been LC (maybe 2 calls per year)

since. I just couldn't take the chaos and stress anymore.

YOU have the power here. Give yourself some well-deserved praise for being the

compassionate and kind person you are, and trust your instincts.

>

> I'm 59 years old, still reacting to my nada's garbage. Spent most of my life

being afraid of her, afraid of her anger, her control. Finally found out about

BPD just a couple years ago. That helps but still, my gut reacts to her games.

>

> My nada is 83, alone, treated my Dad like crap even when he was dying. And yet

some part of me thinks she deserves some bit of respect and compassion because

she's old and alone and a miserable old hag. What is wrong with me?

>

> She's been very sick. Last week she had a colonoscopy, found out her colitis

has flared up, first time in about 20 years. Hubby and I spent 10 hours with her

that day after the test because she was so groggy and weak. The very next day

she tears into us because hubby had made a comment to the neighbors that I was

helping her get cleaned up for bed, she's very tired. That whole week she was a

beast. Needing me because of her bleeding and weakness yet so cruel. It felt

like I was her emotional toy yo-yo. She'd call me over and over again, needing

my help but then snap and tell me don't come over.

>

> Got that on Monday when I normally visit. Called, said don't come over.

Tuesday she was fine on the phone. Thursday she needed me to do grocery

shopping. I did, plus she was strong enough to go out to lunch. Seemed fine.

Today I call, normal Sat. call and she's rude. Said, " I can't talk right now. " I

heard the TV in the background, asked if she had company. She said no. I asked

if she wanted me to call back later. She said no, goodbye and hung up.

>

> I keep telling myself, don't react. This is nothing new. She loves being in

control. But my guts are churning. I want to go NC with her but I'm such a

chicken. Why doesn't she just once tell me don't ever call again like she does

with others? I would love to hear those words. I just don't have the guts to be

cruel to her and cut her off the way she does to me.

>

> And those of you who do go NC, how do you deal with the lies they tell about

you to others? I've already been lied about. The doctor's office heard we were

taking financial advantage of her. Had to deal with Adult Protection Services.

It was a bunch of baloney of course; we have no access to her money in any way.

The one neighbor she's still talking to thinks we're abusive. Whatever.

>

> I'm so tired of this.

>

March 4, 2012

Love this advice from Millicent! Yep, I agree. NC has it's ups &

downs but it shouldn't matter how other people view you. They don't

know the truth; you do.

I went NC when I moved 200 miles away. So, I really don't care what

she's telling people. My dad & step mom believe me and understand why

I am NC with nada. My friends who know how nada is/was don't care &

say they don't blame me. Anyone who doesn't get it, and throws the

whole, " But she's your MOTHER! " thing in my face can kiss my patootie!

And my standard reply to those people (not that I've run across too

many - one was flying monkey #1, aka my step sister [her step

daughter]): " If it was anyone else in this world who treated me the

way she does, no one in their right mind would expect me to maintain a

relationship. Would you expect me to stay involved with an abusive

husband? "

You deserve sanity. You deserve happiness. You deserve a life free

of abuse. However, NC is a VERY personal thing and every one of us

has to make that decision for ourselves as to if it's right for our

situation.

No harm in considering it at all. Talk to your hubby about it & a

therapist if you see one. I would suspect they would be fabulous

sounding boards.

*HUGS*

Mia

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Millicent Kunstler

wrote:

> Just go NC. The guilt will pass and you'll get your life back. She's

> already saying you're terrible, prove her right.

March 4, 2012

I thought I would try calling her today. Left a brief message, said I wasn't

sure what was going on, wanted to know if she wanted me to come over on Monday,

come over this week at all or phone her at all? That was about it. An hour

later she calls me, I pick up the phone and before I can say a word, she said,

" I don't get along with people. Goodbye. " That was it.

So I've written a letter to her, a kind one but expressing my thoughts. It may

be more of a vent so I can sleep tonight. I write letters now and then to my

kids to ease my mind. Only part of the time do they actually receive them. I'll

sit on this one for a few days. If I do send it to her, I will also send it to

her doctor with a note explaining my concerns about her being alone and perhaps

they could figure out some home care that she would accept. It also keeps things

honest, that I'm not abandoning her as she may say to them.

Anuria: one time I was at a counselor with my husband. The topic of my nada

came up, the fact that another psychologist said she was BPD. The counselor

cringed, asked how much time I spent around her. I said 5 hours when I visit.

She came right out and said that was too much time. The selfish side of me

agrees. It's draining. But I also know it takes that long just to get a few

basics done like groceries, going over paperwork and going to lunch. Although I

don't actually wish nada any harm, I do keep hoping something will change where

her doctor will recognize that she shouldn't be living alone. One doctor told

her that outright. He's no longer her doctor. She dumped him pretty quickly.

: You do understand how I feel, that being around nada stresses me and

makes me sick but turning my back on her makes me feel dirty and evil, that I'm

no better than she. That is what I've tried to avoid all my life, being mean to

people. But sitting on that particular fence is like sitting on barbed wire.

: I had to set boundaries with her. Before the set days of the week she

would schedule things on random days - doctor, hair, dental appts. I never

knew what my week would hold. Plus we were getting into some babysitting of our

grand son which made life even more complicated. I needed some predictability

and structure to my life. I set up Mon/Thurs to see nada. That spaced the days

apart so she would be well cared for but I could have a life. She does resent

that at times. At the doctor's office when they want to schedule an appt. she

does the waif thing: you'll have to talk to my daughter because I have to go

according to her schedule. She's so busy. Actually I've been quite flexible with

things but if they have something on Mon or Thurs, why not go with that?

And that's where I am at this point. Almost a relief but not quite.

March 7, 2012

So after her rude telephone comments over the weekend I managed to avoid dealing

with her for a few days. She wants to be alone, that's fine with me. This has

been her way of regaining control since I was a child. She gets angry about

something and clams up for days or even a week. I decided that I would stick

with my usual schedule and call on Wed. not before.

I chickened out. My intentions were good to just let her have her pouting time

but when it came to calling her, I physically got sick. My husband offered to do

it. She did answer the phone, was pretty cocky about how she's getting rid of

things around the house. She called the " Junk Man " to come get things. I'm sure

she got rid of things she thought we would want but honestly I don't care. At

this stage, inheriting anything of hers would be sickening, too many bad

memories. Hubby asked if she wanted us to come over tomorrow, she said no. He

just rolls with it and says " OK. Just give us a call when you want us to stop

by. " Gosh he's good. But he's not coping with a lifetime of fear and guilt and

whatever.

She did tell him the last time we were over there I had an expression on my face

that reminded her of her sisters. I don't know what that would be since I don't

know her sisters. I met one twice and another a few times. But if they walked up

to me, I wouldn't know who they are. And the other sisters I've never met. What

I am seeing is her making my hubby to be the " all good " child and now I'm the

bad guy. She's done this before and it was kind of sickening. When she gets

alone with him she tells him how special he is and how much alike they are. That

he truly understands her. (gag, puke) Then again, she's a terrible flirt. When

I'm alone with her she bashes men left and right and tells me how I'm the " hub

of the family and they would not survive without me. " You know how this game is

played.

OK, if I'm still stuck being involved in her life, the rules need to change and

I need to put on my big girl panties, not get diarrhea every time she has a fit.

Wish me luck. I'm going to need it.

March 7, 2012

(((((Irene)))))

Best of luck to you, dear. Its not easy breaking out of old patterns of

thought, feeling, reactivity and behaviors (ever tried to stay on a strict diet

& exercise program?) particularly when the patterns are ingrained and etched

into our psyche over a lifetime, by our own mother.

But the human will is a remarkable thing. Wishing you all the courage and

strength you need to re-program some healthier choices for yourself, RE how you

relate to your nada.

You can do it! It may take time, but you can do it.

-Annie

>

> So after her rude telephone comments over the weekend I managed to avoid

dealing with her for a few days. She wants to be alone, that's fine with me.

This has been her way of regaining control since I was a child. She gets angry

about something and clams up for days or even a week. I decided that I would

stick with my usual schedule and call on Wed. not before.

>

> I chickened out. My intentions were good to just let her have her pouting time