newbie asks: how to forgive parents with BPD and NPD?

[Guest guest]

Dear Welcome to Oz colleagues,

I'm a 37 y.o. newbie to this forum. I grew up with a borderline mother and

narcissist father. With a few bright spots interspersed, my childhood was a

nightmare, with one abusive disaster after another (much of it involving my

parents' divorce battles). I spent a lot of years as an adult acting out this

pain in various ways before I sought therapy and began a path to healing.

I've got a hard philosophical question for everyone, one I've been wrestling

with a long time:

To what extent are my parents responsible for their actions? In other words --

were they even capable of better? Could either of them have realized,

" Something's wrong with what I'm doing " and sought help? Or are borderline and

narcissistic personality disorders kind of like a metaphorical demonic

possession, an illness that's totally driving them and they has no control over

nor capacity to control?

I've wrestled for a long time with the question of forgiveness vs. demanding

accountability and responsibility from my parents for their abuse. Where I've

come down is I have just about total forgiveness for my mother (the borderline)

because I believe she wasn't capable of better, whereas I have only partial

forgiveness (and still some lingering resentment) toward my father (the

narcissist) because I think he was capable of better (and also because his pd

was not as severe as my mom's). But these feelings shift a lot and it's hard to

know what standard to impose of behavior I should impose retroactively on my

personality-challenged parents.

Any input/reflections would be greatly appreciated.

BTW has anyone read Bill Eddy and Randi Krieger's book, " Splitting " ? It's an

excellent dissection of what my parents did during their divorce.

Thank you,

-

[Guest guest]

Me personally, I believe that those with personality disorder ARE responsible

for their actions and their words, and they are capable of choosing to go into

therapy.

The reason I believe they are accountable is twofold.

One reason is that the law holds those with personality disorder accountable and

able to stand trial for crimes they may have committed.

Those who are psychotic, meaning not connected to reality, unable to tell what

is real and what is a hallucination, and unable to perceive right from wrong,

are NOT held responsible for their actions. Such individuals are deemed

" legally insane " and therefor not accountable for criminal acts they may commit.

The second reason I hold those with pds accountable is that so many

psychologists and authors now claim that those with bpd can be cured or at least

greatly improved by certain kinds of therapy like dialectical behavioral

therapy, or in some cases a combination of psychotherapy and drug therapy.

So, the way I look at it is that yes, the person with borderline pd can't help

it that she has a disordered way of perceiving incoming information and

interprets the incoming information in a negative way (cognitive distortion),

causing her to react in extreme ways (emotional disregulation causing

inappropriate and extreme rage, blaming, projecting, etc.)...

BUT (!!)....

the person with bpd DOES have the ability to choose at any (relatively calm)

moment in time to go into therapy and learn how to manage her distorted

perceptions and inappropriate responses. Those with bpd are not psychotic;

they have the ability to choose.

They just don't want to.

Choosing to go into therapy means admitting that there just might be something

wrong with their own self and it means a lot of really hard and painful work.

So, they choose instead to see themselves as perpetual victims, to feel

justified and entitled to act out in any negative, destructive, dangerous way

they feel like, and to claim that they they are just fine (or even that they are

" perfect " ) and its everyone else that is crazy: " Why should I go into therapy

when there's nothing wrong with me? You're the crazy one! "

So I see the individual with bpd as being more in the position of an alcoholic

than anything else. The person with bpd is addicted to their distorted

perceptions that they are perfect and everyone else is crazy, addicted to their

habits of projecting and blaming, addicted to acting out in extreme rage and

other extreme behaviors, and addicted to feeling justified and entitled to think

this way.

But, that's just my own personal opinion.

-Annie

>

> Dear Welcome to Oz colleagues,

>

> I'm a 37 y.o. newbie to this forum. I grew up with a borderline mother and

narcissist father. With a few bright spots interspersed, my childhood was a

nightmare, with one abusive disaster after another (much of it involving my

parents' divorce battles). I spent a lot of years as an adult acting out this

pain in various ways before I sought therapy and began a path to healing.

>

> I've got a hard philosophical question for everyone, one I've been wrestling

with a long time:

>

> To what extent are my parents responsible for their actions? In other words --

were they even capable of better? Could either of them have realized,

" Something's wrong with what I'm doing " and sought help? Or are borderline and

narcissistic personality disorders kind of like a metaphorical demonic

possession, an illness that's totally driving them and they has no control over

nor capacity to control?

>

> I've wrestled for a long time with the question of forgiveness vs. demanding

accountability and responsibility from my parents for their abuse. Where I've

come down is I have just about total forgiveness for my mother (the borderline)

because I believe she wasn't capable of better, whereas I have only partial

forgiveness (and still some lingering resentment) toward my father (the

narcissist) because I think he was capable of better (and also because his pd

was not as severe as my mom's). But these feelings shift a lot and it's hard to

know what standard to impose of behavior I should impose retroactively on my

personality-challenged parents.

>

> Any input/reflections would be greatly appreciated.

>

> BTW has anyone read Bill Eddy and Randi Krieger's book, " Splitting " ? It's an

excellent dissection of what my parents did during their divorce.

>

> Thank you,

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , welcome to the group. I'm Mia and not as active as I used to be

due to crazy school schedule.

When it comes to forgiveness, I think that's very individual. There's no set

time limit or even any rule that says you must forgive someone. ly, I

think forgiveness comes with time and is unique to the one forgiving, and

the one who you are trying to forgive. So even though you feel as if you've

come to a point of forgiveness with your mother, it just might take more

time to get there with your father.

Also, as others have said, the person with the PD is responsible for their

behavior. Knowing this now is very good because it has allowed me to be

comfortable with my decisions regarding my nada (borderline mother who is

not a (nada) real mother). For me, I am no contact with her. I have come

to a point of forgiveness, but I also know that she does not take

responsibility for her abusive actions and that her abuse of me will just

continue as it has for over 30 years. So, forgiven her? Yes.... I am there

now. But forgotten? No. Never will, either. I'm done being a door mat &

punching bag.

Anyway, I hope you will find this group as helpful as I have and I hope you

find a way to continue healing =)

Mia

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:12 AM, mrmatthew_2001 wrote:

>

>

> Dear Welcome to Oz colleagues,

>

> I'm a 37 y.o. newbie to this forum. I grew up with a borderline mother and

> narcissist father. With a few bright spots interspersed, my childhood was a

> nightmare, with one abusive disaster after another (much of it involving my

> parents' divorce battles). I spent a lot of years as an adult acting out

> this pain in various ways before I sought therapy and began a path to

> healing.

>

> I've got a hard philosophical question for everyone, one I've been

> wrestling with a long time:

>

> To what extent are my parents responsible for their actions? In other words

> -- were they even capable of better? Could either of them have realized,

> " Something's wrong with what I'm doing " and sought help? Or are borderline

> and narcissistic personality disorders kind of like a metaphorical demonic

> possession, an illness that's totally driving them and they has no control

> over nor capacity to control?

>

> I've wrestled for a long time with the question of forgiveness vs.

> demanding accountability and responsibility from my parents for their abuse.

> Where I've come down is I have just about total forgiveness for my mother

> (the borderline) because I believe she wasn't capable of better, whereas I

> have only partial forgiveness (and still some lingering resentment) toward

> my father (the narcissist) because I think he was capable of better (and

> also because his pd was not as severe as my mom's). But these feelings shift

> a lot and it's hard to know what standard to impose of behavior I should

> impose retroactively on my personality-challenged parents.

>

> Any input/reflections would be greatly appreciated.

>

> BTW has anyone read Bill Eddy and Randi Krieger's book, " Splitting " ? It's

> an excellent dissection of what my parents did during their divorce.

>

> Thank you,

> -

>

>

>