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Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD, I had

a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first, actually

appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected me for

saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real rape

victims.

That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned more

about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover and

articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black sheep

child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move faster

than I did.

The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This will

be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will try to

mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely touched me

(though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that meet the

literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong theme to

make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that regard. And

she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle technique to do so.

It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and ACTIONS to her

design, and also--this was by far the worst--comparisons with split good

princess, by action and by words. There was SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me

even though I hadn't asked for them--every kindof drug store personal care you

could think of, all implying I was gros and needed it. Refusing (by action, not

words) to keep me stocked with things I *really needed--toothpaste, toilet

paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then severely, severely shaming and

chastizing me if I used any of my sister's things. Always buying my sister

luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to even enter her closet; buying me

wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style, seriously!) Insisting on insulting

and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the house--trying to tell me I was

'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to see that' (as if my clothes

were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a disgusting tone any blemish

or imperfection I might have had at th time. Withholding, of COURSE, any

compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst worshipping her golden child.

(Except for when she was worshipping me in front of people, at which point I was

supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.) And of course the invasive

touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are triggering to so many of

us including me--but we'll just say, they were there, and they were part of the

whole picture.

And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might not

seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden, implied,

glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more importantly)

to other people.

And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

--CHarlie

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Its uncanny how similar our experiences were in this specific regard: we were

both " negatively sexualized " by our nadas in really similar ways.

My nada was rather narcissistic pd as well as borderline pd, and like yours was

hyper-concerned with her own attractiveness; she chose to project all her worst,

most negative, self-loathing views of her own self onto me, her " appendage. "

Nothing about my physical self was ever good enough or attractive enough for my

nada, I was rather constantly subjected to criticism about my appearance:

physical attributes I could do nothing about. I couldn't help the size of my

ears, or my hair texture and color, or the fact that I was very nearsighted. Or

being kind of short, with relatively wide hands and short fingers. When I

became a teen, I couldn't help having bad skin, although Lord knows I tried

everything available back then. Yet I was relentlessly made to feel deeply

ashamed over these things, and inferior, and actually rather repulsive. The

cherry on top: I was then shamed and humiliated by both parents for being very

shy and awkward.

The most uncannily similar thing you wrote about was that my nada would go out

of her way to sometimes compliment me in public, which only confused and

embarrassed me, while continuing to shame and humiliate me in private,

demonstrating quite clearly how much she actually despised my physicality when

we were alone, with no witnesses.

When I look back at photos of myself from when I was a child and teen, I look

pretty sad. Even if I'm smiling, its a lopsided, sad smile. And I was not

repulsive. I was just a regular-looking child and teen, but felt like a female

version of Quasimodo.

And you are right: its the cumulative impact of years and years of covert

emotional abuse, the pattern of abuse, that tells the tale and does the damage.

Any one incident can be explained away, but a repeating, chronic pattern of

abusive behavior means that the perpetrator is actually quite hostile toward her

victim, and means to do damage.

The fact that most of the shaming, negative, hostile, insulting comments are

made covertly, in private, or in passive-aggressive, indirect ways, means that

nada *knows* its wrong and she needs to hide it.

I'm glad you shared your experience; what happened to you really resonates with

me, unfortunately.

As Doug says, may we all heal.

-Annie

>

> Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD, I

had a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first,

actually appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected

me for saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real

rape victims.

>

> That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned more

about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover and

articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black sheep

child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move faster

than I did.

>

> The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This

will be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

>

> Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will try to

mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

>

> Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely touched

me (though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that meet the

literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong theme to

make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that regard. And

she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle technique to do so.

It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and ACTIONS to her

design, and also--this was by far the worst--comparisons with split good

princess, by action and by words. There was SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me

even though I hadn't asked for them--every kindof drug store personal care you

could think of, all implying I was gros and needed it. Refusing (by action, not

words) to keep me stocked with things I *really needed--toothpaste, toilet

paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then severely, severely shaming and

chastizing me if I used any of my sister's things. Always buying my sister

luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to even enter her closet; buying me

wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style, seriously!) Insisting on insulting

and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the house--trying to tell me I was

'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to see that' (as if my clothes

were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a disgusting tone any blemish

or imperfection I might have had at th time. Withholding, of COURSE, any

compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst worshipping her golden child.

(Except for when she was worshipping me in front of people, at which point I was

supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.) And of course the invasive

touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are triggering to so many of

us including me--but we'll just say, they were there, and they were part of the

whole picture.

>

> And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might not

seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

>

> Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden,

implied, glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more

importantly) to other people.

>

> And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

>

> I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

>

> --CHarlie

>

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Hi Charlie

thanks for posting this. I find this the most difficult part of this situation.

Not being able to explain to people what she did/does that's so horrible. I had

one therapist who I could tell sort of sympathized with her, since nada was an

incest survivor, and I think made excuses for nada. Which is nada's whole theme,

that nada is the constant victim. And we all make excuses for her. It was my

next therapist who said we should stop making excuses for her, that I finally

found someone who understood. I even asked her outright - " why do you believe

me? " because I didn't feel like I was able to produce enough concrete evidence

to explain the depth and intensity of my feelings (back to the theme that I'm

the crazy one and the bad guy, not nada). The therapist said, " because I see the

fossils " She could see the common, normal way that I reacted to the abuse, and

see it was the same way that other's would behave in the same situation. It made

me feel so much better, knowing that it was real and not all made up in my head.

That I was angry because someone had hurt me, which is normal, and not angry

because I was nuts, which is what I always was told.

I especially liked that you said this:

" She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. "

That really spoke to me as well. Very true.

Thanks

Terri

>

> Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD, I

had a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first,

actually appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected

me for saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real

rape victims.

>

> That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned more

about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover and

articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black sheep

child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move faster

than I did.

>

> The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This

will be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

>

> Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will try to

mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

>

> Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely touched

me (though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that meet the

literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong theme to

make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that regard. And

she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle technique to do so.

It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and ACTIONS to her

design, and also--this was by far the worst--comparisons with split good

princess, by action and by words. There was SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me

even though I hadn't asked for them--every kindof drug store personal care you

could think of, all implying I was gros and needed it. Refusing (by action, not

words) to keep me stocked with things I *really needed--toothpaste, toilet

paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then severely, severely shaming and

chastizing me if I used any of my sister's things. Always buying my sister

luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to even enter her closet; buying me

wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style, seriously!) Insisting on insulting

and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the house--trying to tell me I was

'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to see that' (as if my clothes

were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a disgusting tone any blemish

or imperfection I might have had at th time. Withholding, of COURSE, any

compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst worshipping her golden child.

(Except for when she was worshipping me in front of people, at which point I was

supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.) And of course the invasive

touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are triggering to so many of

us including me--but we'll just say, they were there, and they were part of the

whole picture.

>

> And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might not

seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

>

> Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden,

implied, glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more

importantly) to other people.

>

> And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

>

> I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

>

> --CHarlie

>

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wCharlotte, This post has helped me. I was an only child. My mother died before

I was 3 and thank God my father's sister raised me. I hated compliments from my

father and when I was hitting puberty they triggered such a defensive outburst

in me. In his old age we cared for him in our home and he was still weirdly

incestuous with me, in a very covert passive agressive way. He used to pick me

up for church on Sunday morning and the ride to and from church was a nightmare

with him either complimenting my beauty or screaming at me all the way. If he

told me I looked like my mother it triggered all kinds of fear and flight

reactions in me. All I can say is thank God my aunt raised me and I wasn't with

him every day, and thank God he was a weak, waif-like creature who was afraid to

act on a lot of impulses. I suffered a lot of emotional abuse but it could have

been worse. Thanks for your post. We have put Fada in a nursing home and I am

dealing with all kinds of things. This post has helped me.

Kay

>

> Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD, I

had a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first,

actually appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected

me for saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real

rape victims.

>

> That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned more

about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover and

articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black sheep

child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move faster

than I did.

>

> The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This

will be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

>

> Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will try to

mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

>

> Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely touched

me (though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that meet the

literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong theme to

make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that regard. And

she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle technique to do so.

It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and ACTIONS to her

design, and also--this was by far the worst--comparisons with split good

princess, by action and by words. There was SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me

even though I hadn't asked for them--every kindof drug store personal care you

could think of, all implying I was gros and needed it. Refusing (by action, not

words) to keep me stocked with things I *really needed--toothpaste, toilet

paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then severely, severely shaming and

chastizing me if I used any of my sister's things. Always buying my sister

luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to even enter her closet; buying me

wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style, seriously!) Insisting on insulting

and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the house--trying to tell me I was

'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to see that' (as if my clothes

were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a disgusting tone any blemish

or imperfection I might have had at th time. Withholding, of COURSE, any

compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst worshipping her golden child.

(Except for when she was worshipping me in front of people, at which point I was

supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.) And of course the invasive

touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are triggering to so many of

us including me--but we'll just say, they were there, and they were part of the

whole picture.

>

> And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might not

seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

>

> Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden,

implied, glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more

importantly) to other people.

>

> And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

>

> I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

>

> --CHarlie

>

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This was also very helpful to me. My BPD mother always had to place her

children in roles, i.e. the beautiful/ugly one, the smart/dumb one, etc. My

oldest sister was the one she deemed to be popular and pretty and attractive to

me. Me and my sister were deemed the smart and responsible, yet ugly ones and

my brother was the golden child who could do no wrong. She constantly would

denigrate my appearance and my weight. She was constantly focused on her looks

in a very superficial way. She has had tons of plastic surgery, has so much

make up that an army couldn't use all of it, so I have tried to be the opposite

of her by not focusing on my appearance but that just results in her saying that

I am not interested in a relationship and has even accused me countless times of

being a lesbian! Which wouldn't be a bad thing if I was, she just twists

everything around!

Let me know if anyone has insight and thank you for the post!

~Fed Up~

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Charlie, thank you so much for your wonderful, insightful post. So many KOs

struggle with defining and pinpointing the abuse done to them. It remains a

misty blur for many years, sometimes a mystery never solved, although the KO

knows a great injustice and cruelty has been endured. In this way, BPDs are

often " master criminals, " hiding their deeds in plain sight, and always refining

and morphing their techniques to confuse victims and avoid scrutiny. Your post

makes this plain, and the fact that you are able to shine such a bright light on

it shows the tremendous work you've done to heal. Thanks for pointing to the

exit door, and showing a way out.

I'm a KO and I thank you,

AFB

>

>

> >

> > Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD, I

had a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first,

actually appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected

me for saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real

rape victims.

> >

> > That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned more

about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover and

articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black sheep

child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move faster

than I did.

> >

> > The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This

will be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

> >

> > Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will try

to mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

> >

> > Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely touched

me (though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that meet the

literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong theme to

make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that regard. And

she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle technique to do so.

It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and ACTIONS to her

design, and also--this was by far the worst--comparisons with split good

princess, by action and by words. There was SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me

even though I hadn't asked for them--every kindof drug store personal care you

could think of, all implying I was gros and needed it. Refusing (by action, not

words) to keep me stocked with things I *really needed--toothpaste, toilet

paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then severely, severely shaming and

chastizing me if I used any of my sister's things. Always buying my sister

luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to even enter her closet; buying me

wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style, seriously!) Insisting on insulting

and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the house--trying to tell me I was

'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to see that' (as if my clothes

were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a disgusting tone any blemish

or imperfection I might have had at th time. Withholding, of COURSE, any

compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst worshipping her golden child.

(Except for when she was worshipping me in front of people, at which point I was

supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.) And of course the invasive

touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are triggering to so many of

us including me--but we'll just say, they were there, and they were part of the

whole picture.

> >

> > And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might

not seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

> >

> > Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden,

implied, glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more

importantly) to other people.

> >

> > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

> >

> > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

> >

> > --CHarlie

> >

>

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I am a KO, and you're welcome. :) I really value all of this feedback. Also

I'm so sorry Annie, I didn't realize this was such a strong aspect of your

abuse--my sympathies to you, and all out there who have suffered in this

particular ring of Hell.

--Charlotte

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, Years ago, when I was in therapy and just learning about BPD,

I had a hard time explaining nada's abuse to my therapists. Some, at first,

actually appeared not to believe me--one, I'll never forget, actually corrected

me for saying I felt sexually assaulted. She said it was disrespectful to *real

rape victims.

> > >

> > > That was a student therapist, and I hope since that time she's learned

more about bpd mothers--I know I certainly have. And I now know how to uncover

and articulate the way that a nada can systematically theme-abuse her black

sheep child. I want to describe it a little, in case it can help anyone move

faster than I did.

> > >

> > > The first thing to understand, is that a nada has projection-themes. This

will be something that a nada is terrified of in herself, and she will seek to

project it onto her black sheep child. It will be relentless. It will be a

lifelong theme. With the energy of the truly insane, she will *never let up,

and she will use the tiniest grain of any apparent truth to try and help her do

this. My own nada was terrified of being unattractive to men and 'unworthy' as

a Madonna-figure. (We are Catholics by birth.) So you can imagine what I got

hit with. It was extremely painful. It was, and is, her life's theme and

obsession for me. It means that this was basically all I was to her--I was,

from birth, objectified and sexualized--but, as an UN-desirable sex object. My

split good sister got to be the one worshipped, and I was compared to her. Good

times.

> > >

> > > Next, it's important to get that sometimes--maybe even often--nada will

try to mask her abuse on this theme with exaggerated compliments in the area.

Especially in front of strangers or the public. So, a child whose lifelong

abuse theme was physical weakness would be presented as a powerhouse; stupid as

brilliant. So with me, from time to time I'd get these over the top compliments

about my beauty. Just so she could tell herself she wasn't really doing what

she was doing to abuse me. Again--especially in front of people. The fact that

the compliments hurt just as much as the insults, is the first clue that this is

all part of nada's theme-bash.

> > >

> > > Finally. The abuse has to be taken in context. My nada very rarely

touched me (though she did sometimes), and she did not do a lot of things that

meet the literal definition of sexual abuse. However, she made it her lifelong

theme to make me feel (1) only sexual, nothing else; and (2) gros in that

regard. And she used every possible subtle and sometimes not so subtle

technique to do so. It was a combination of physical, verbal and emotional

abuse, and ACTIONS to her design, and also--this was by far the

worst--comparisons with split good princess, by action and by words. There was

SO much. Buying things to 'fix' me even though I hadn't asked for them--every

kindof drug store personal care you could think of, all implying I was gros and

needed it. Refusing (by action, not words) to keep me stocked with things I

*really needed--toothpaste, toilet paper, feminine needs, you name it--and then

severely, severely shaming and chastizing me if I used any of my sister's

things. Always buying my sister luxury items and clothing--not allowing me to

even enter her closet; buying me wholly inferior things. (Cinderalla style,

seriously!) Insisting on insulting and sexualizing me when I'd try to leave the

house--trying to tell me I was 'hanging out of that dress' or, 'nobody wants to

see that' (as if my clothes were too revealing or tight), or pointing out in a

disgusting tone any blemish or imperfection I might have had at th time.

Withholding, of COURSE, any compliments on my appearance whatsoever whilst

worshipping her golden child. (Except for when she was worshipping me in front

of people, at which point I was supposed to believe her and feign gratefulness.)

And of course the invasive touches--I won't go into those in detail bks they are

triggering to so many of us including me--but we'll just say, they were there,

and they were part of the whole picture.

> > >

> > > And that's my point. There was a *whole picture. Any one incident might

not seem like that big of a deal on its own, but put it all together for OVER 30

YEARS, especially the most formative ones during puberty but really from the day

I was born...So, for anyone just starting out with a therapist or with the

books, who is trying to put their finger on what the nada abuse was--I'd say

start with a few ideas. First, believe that nada did indeed WANT to hurt you.

She needs to project her theme fear onto you so she won't feel it herself. She

does this intentionally, even though she most of the time won't admit it even to

herself. She thinks it's ok. She thinks it's justified, because you are not

really separate from her anyway, and she HURTS so bad and needs it. (Bull

s...actually she DOESN " T hurt, because she successfully projects it onto her

black sheep.)

> > >

> > > Second, understand that almost all abuse is going to be masked, hidden,

implied, glossed over, so that nada can try and deny it to herself and (more

importantly) to other people.

> > >

> > > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each

small incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is

obsessed with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at

her own shortcomings.

> > >

> > > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if

it helps anyone.

> > >

> > > --CHarlie

> > >

> >

>

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This was very good. It is all the small things (most often) that build up over

years that eat away at your soul. People don't get it. I mention something my

nada has done and they gloss it over that it's because of her age or she's just

feeling afraid. How do you explain a lifetime of cutting comments? At times I

wonder if I'm the crazy one, that I'm over reacting to her stuff. I remember in

high school I had a time where I just cried and told her I needed to see a

psychiatrist because I felt crazy. She just looked at me like I was from Mars.

But examples that drove me to that:

She insisted I clean the apartment (no big deal) but would berate me for not

putting all the ashtrays back in their perfect place and position, would scream

at me if I missed a piece of lint under the table. She would rant and say now

she would have to do it all over again and said I was trying to kill her. This

happened many times.

Or how about having my boyfriend over for dinner and she talks about my pimples.

Just what every teen wants to discuss over dinner.

Or walking by and having her grab your crotch and then get angry if you react,

telling me that she made me and she can do what she wants with me?

OK, that one was pretty extreme. I don't know of anyone that would consider that

normal. But other things just eat away at me.

Anyway, there's no easy way to convey to a friend a lifetime of hurt. And

neighbors sure aren't going to get it.

>

> And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

>

> I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

>

> --CHarlie

>

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I agree: subtle, covert, but chronic emotional abuse, such as being treated

like a thing, an object, as though you have no feelings to hurt, being treated

as a possession or as a servant, being treated as an appendage of the pd parent

and forced to " be " the parent and reflect her tastes and opinions and never your

own, being subjected to wildly inappropriate sexual behaviors by one's own

parent, being subjected to relentless criticism, public humiliation/shaming,

being subjected to random violence for unknown reasons or the threat of violence

as punishment for not being perfect, etc., etc.... these are actually severely

abusive behaviors and yet the abuse flies under the radar when there are no

broken bones, bruises, trips to the hospital or days/weeks of missed school to

tell the tale.

In my opinion, chronic, covert emotional abuse of children is virtually the same

thing as torture.

I've said before and I'll say it again: the children of these high-functioning

personality disordered parents who can commit covert emotional and even physical

abuse, or sexual abuse are basically screwed. If there is no sane,

compassionate, courageous adult in the picture to be the child's " enlightened

witness " , to monitor and supervise the pd parent, or to have the child removed

for the child's safety... if its just the child alone 24/7 with a moderately to

severely affected and untreated bpd parent, the poor child is basically screwed.

-Annie

> >

>

> > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed

with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

> >

> > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

> >

> > --CHarlie

> >

>

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Yep. Been there, heard that. Sounds like our nadas could be twins separated at

birth.

-Annie

>

> This was also very helpful to me. My BPD mother always had to place her

children in roles, i.e. the beautiful/ugly one, the smart/dumb one, etc. My

oldest sister was the one she deemed to be popular and pretty and attractive to

me. Me and my sister were deemed the smart and responsible, yet ugly ones and

my brother was the golden child who could do no wrong. She constantly would

denigrate my appearance and my weight. She was constantly focused on her looks

in a very superficial way. She has had tons of plastic surgery, has so much

make up that an army couldn't use all of it, so I have tried to be the opposite

of her by not focusing on my appearance but that just results in her saying that

I am not interested in a relationship and has even accused me countless times of

being a lesbian! Which wouldn't be a bad thing if I was, she just twists

everything around!

>

> Let me know if anyone has insight and thank you for the post!

>

> ~Fed Up~

>

>

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Annie,

Â

Please consider adding to the list of abusive behavior the concept  that

the BPD parent rationalizes that their taunts and verbal abuse is somehowÂ

helping to " harden " the child so that other  people " can't get your goat in

life " (as I was told by nada).

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:06 PM

Subject: Re: Spot the Abuse: Deciphering a Nada Pattern

Â

I agree: subtle, covert, but chronic emotional abuse, such as being treated like

a thing, an object, as though you have no feelings to hurt, being treated as a

possession or as a servant, being treated as an appendage of the pd parent and

forced to " be " the parent and reflect her tastes and opinions and never your

own, being subjected to wildly inappropriate sexual behaviors by one's own

parent, being subjected to relentless criticism, public humiliation/shaming,

being subjected to random violence for unknown reasons or the threat of violence

as punishment for not being perfect, etc., etc.... these are actually severely

abusive behaviors and yet the abuse flies under the radar when there are no

broken bones, bruises, trips to the hospital or days/weeks of missed school to

tell the tale.

In my opinion, chronic, covert emotional abuse of children is virtually the same

thing as torture.

I've said before and I'll say it again: the children of these high-functioning

personality disordered parents who can commit covert emotional and even physical

abuse, or sexual abuse are basically screwed. If there is no sane,

compassionate, courageous adult in the picture to be the child's " enlightened

witness " , to monitor and supervise the pd parent, or to have the child removed

for the child's safety... if its just the child alone 24/7 with a moderately to

severely affected and untreated bpd parent, the poor child is basically screwed.

-Annie

> >

>

> > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed with

dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

> >

> > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

> >

> > --CHarlie

> >

>

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Guest guest

" I'm torturing you because I love you. " Yeah, that makes SO much sense, doesn't

it. Mm-hmm.

That's just one step less lethal than " The voices told me I have to kill you to

save your soul. "

We were raised by people who were too narcissistic, too irrational, too

emotionally disregulated, too delusional and/or too paranoid to be trusted to

care for a pet hamster, and yet they could pull off appearing functional enough

to pass as " normal " in public.

There ought ta' be a law, I tells ya.

-Annie

> > >

> >

> > > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each

small incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is

obsessed with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at

her own shortcomings.

> > >

> > > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if

it helps anyone.

> > >

> > > --CHarlie

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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Hmm – I seem to be sensing a correlation between BPD and “old fashioned

thinkingâ€. My nada is of the 60’s generation but you would think she was

brought up in the 20s based on the expressions she uses and words she chooses.

“Get your goat†is one of those old sayings too. Just a thought.

M-

Annie,

Please consider adding to the list of abusive behavior the concept that the

BPD parent rationalizes that their taunts and verbal abuse is somehow helping

to " harden " the child so that other people " can't get your goat in life " (as I

was told by nada).

From: anuria67854 <anuria-67854@... <mailto:anuria-67854%40mypacks.net>

>

To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:06 PM

Subject: Re: Spot the Abuse: Deciphering a Nada Pattern

I agree: subtle, covert, but chronic emotional abuse, such as being treated like

a thing, an object, as though you have no feelings to hurt, being treated as a

possession or as a servant, being treated as an appendage of the pd parent and

forced to " be " the parent and reflect her tastes and opinions and never your

own, being subjected to wildly inappropriate sexual behaviors by one's own

parent, being subjected to relentless criticism, public humiliation/shaming,

being subjected to random violence for unknown reasons or the threat of violence

as punishment for not being perfect, etc., etc.... these are actually severely

abusive behaviors and yet the abuse flies under the radar when there are no

broken bones, bruises, trips to the hospital or days/weeks of missed school to

tell the tale.

In my opinion, chronic, covert emotional abuse of children is virtually the same

thing as torture.

I've said before and I'll say it again: the children of these high-functioning

personality disordered parents who can commit covert emotional and even physical

abuse, or sexual abuse are basically screwed. If there is no sane,

compassionate, courageous adult in the picture to be the child's " enlightened

witness " , to monitor and supervise the pd parent, or to have the child removed

for the child's safety... if its just the child alone 24/7 with a moderately to

severely affected and untreated bpd parent, the poor child is basically screwed.

-Annie

> >

>

> > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each small

incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is obsessed with

dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at her own

shortcomings.

> >

> > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if it

helps anyone.

> >

> > --CHarlie

> >

>

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my therapist told me pretty much the same thing. she said in her experience (she

works with trauma) the worst kind of trauma is the persistent deniable events.

if someone witnesses a murder no one questions if that was bad, but people who

experience covert and situational toxicity it is always going to be questioned

and invalidated somehow. Often by the victim themselves.

Meikjn

> > >

> >

> > > And last, understand that it's a pattern. You have to understand each

small incident in context. In the context of a truly crazy person who is

obsessed with dumping on her innocent child, an exaggerated level of terror at

her own shortcomings.

> > >

> > > I hope this is interesting to you all and would love to hear feedback if

it helps anyone.

> > >

> > > --CHarlie

> > >

> >

>

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Persistent covert emotional abuse, such as making a person doubt their own

sanity, has been called " gas-lighting " (after the movie " Gaslight " , in which a

con-man seduces a young girl into marriage only for the purpose of gaining

ownership of her home: it contains a treasure she doesn't know about. The

con-man deliberately tries to drive his young bride insane so he can have her

committed, and have all her wealth for himself.)

Me personally, I prefer to label covert, persistent, deliberate emotional abuse

as either " emotional torture " , or " mind-f**king. " I think both of those terms

drive home the complete and utter reprehensibleness of that behavior.

And as bad as it is to do that to another adult, it is truly evil to do that to

one's own child, in my opinion.

To me, covert emotional abuse is right up there as a 10.0+ magnitude on the

" Richter Scale of Evil " , along with sexually exploiting one's own child. At

least, it is for me. I can only speak for myself.

I consider it to be evil because its deliberate and repetitive. Not an " oops. "

" Oops, I accidentally tore your heart out by the roots again, by telling you, my

little child, that I think you are a disgusting, no-good waste of air and I wish

you'd never been born. " or " Gee, it seems that I accidentally got you, my

little child, alone and forced you to have sex with me again. Oops. "

" Accidentally " my ass. A persistent, ongoing pattern of ugly, self-serving,

reprehensible behavior is no accident, sez I.

-Annie

>

>

> my therapist told me pretty much the same thing. she said in her experience

(she works with trauma) the worst kind of trauma is the persistent deniable

events. if someone witnesses a murder no one questions if that was bad, but

people who experience covert and situational toxicity it is always going to be

questioned and invalidated somehow. Often by the victim themselves.

>

> Meikjn

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Guest guest

Â

Annie, once again you've nailed it ( " covert, persistent, deliberate emotional

abuse as ... " emotional torture... " ).Â

Â

Aside:Â before I learned of BPD (by coincidence, in my line of work at the

time) and before I figured out my nada was/is a BPD (which was eons before

SWOE), I had labeled her an " emotional terrorist "   for her covert,

persistent, deliberate emotional abuse. Â

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:32 PM

Subject: Re: Spot the Abuse: Deciphering a Nada Pattern

Â

Persistent covert emotional abuse, such as making a person doubt their own

sanity, has been called " gas-lighting " (after the movie " Gaslight " , in which a

con-man seduces a young girl into marriage only for the purpose of gaining

ownership of her home: it contains a treasure she doesn't know about. The

con-man deliberately tries to drive his young bride insane so he can have her

committed, and have all her wealth for himself.)

Me personally, I prefer to label covert, persistent, deliberate emotional abuse

as either " emotional torture " , or " mind-f**king. " I think both of those terms

drive home the complete and utter reprehensibleness of that behavior.

And as bad as it is to do that to another adult, it is truly evil to do that to

one's own child, in my opinion.

To me, covert emotional abuse is right up there as a 10.0+ magnitude on the

" Richter Scale of Evil " , along with sexually exploiting one's own child. At

least, it is for me. I can only speak for myself.

I consider it to be evil because its deliberate and repetitive. Not an " oops. "

" Oops, I accidentally tore your heart out by the roots again, by telling you, my

little child, that I think you are a disgusting, no-good waste of air and I wish

you'd never been born. " or " Gee, it seems that I accidentally got you, my little

child, alone and forced you to have sex with me again. Oops. "

" Accidentally " my ass. A persistent, ongoing pattern of ugly, self-serving,

reprehensible behavior is no accident, sez I.

-Annie

>

>

> my therapist told me pretty much the same thing. she said in her experience

(she works with trauma) the worst kind of trauma is the persistent deniable

events. if someone witnesses a murder no one questions if that was bad, but

people who experience covert and situational toxicity it is always going to be

questioned and invalidated somehow. Often by the victim themselves.

>

> Meikjn

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