Guest guest Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able to.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 There are two books with similar titles, one is " Surviving A Borderline Parent " , and the other is " Understanding The Borderline Mother. " Its been years now since I read " Understanding The Borderline Mother " , so I can't reference that chapter (I loaned the book to a former friend and never got it back), but in any case, I personally don't think its a requirement that you HAVE to forgive your bpd mother in order to find inner peace, find healing, and have a more enjoyable life. Its totally and only about *what works for you*, what you find tolerable, reasonable, and doable. Please don't beat yourself up if you find that you either are not ready to consider forgiveness or if its just not relevant to you. I happen to agree with you; if the individual who has repeatedly hurt you refuses to admit that she's hurt you, and if you remain in contact with her she will continue to hurt you whether you forgive her or not.... then the question of forgiveness is kind of a moot point: a non-issue, seems to me. Instead, perhaps you will feel more comfortable with simple emotional detachment. Its an option: just wishing her well and walking away, either emotionally or physically or both. It doesn't make you a bad daughter or a bad human being to simply withdraw your trust, bonding, or your physical body away from someone who is repeatedly harmful to you. There is no time-table, either. You get to mull over what it is that YOU want, for as long as you need to think about it. You get to decide if you want a relationship at all, and if you do want to remain in contact, you get to decide the frequency and duration. You get to accept or discard any information you glean from any book, or from your therapist, your friends, or this Group, or from your own heart, you get to select whatever elements feel right to you, and put together your own customized way to cope with your bpd mother and your own situation. Some of us need to forgive (however it is that we individually define forgiveness) in order to find healing and peace, but others do not feel this need, and can simply detach, move forward and find healing and peace anyway. There is no one right way, or only way, or best way to find peace and healing; its just about finding what works for YOU. And you get to change your mind, too! If you find that one way isn't working for you, you can try another way if you want to. Utter freedom in this regard is hard for us adult kids of bpd parents to wrap our minds around; we were given so little freedom of choice or other freedoms, growing up. But you do have the freedom to choose your own healing path, and I don't think anyone here will judge you over the forgiveness question (even if we each have different ideas about the definition of forgiveness.) -Annie > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm trying not to feel guilty about it, but it is definitely hard. I don't even know if I want to forgive her. For so long, I just pushed my emotions to the side and never let myself feel anything. Now that I'm trying to work through them, it feels so overwhelming. I kind of feel like if I was to forgive her now, it wouldn't be real. I'm afraid I would say it, but not really feel it and go back to hiding my feelings. I just don't know how to deal with this part. I guess I need to learn how to handle my emotions since i've never done it before. lol And I really want you guys to know that your input helps more than you know. Thank you! To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Another poster - I think it was Doug (Doug! Where y'at??) defined " forgiving " as saying " I CHOOSE not to seek retribution against you for the wrong you have done to me. " I like that definition. It's not saying, " it's Okay, and you can go ahead and hurt me again, and I will still love you and keep our relationship just the same. " It is, first of all, a CHOICE that I have the power to make, and it goes only as far as stating that I do not plan to strike back - I plan to walk away. I will continue to be vigilant, and the person who has done me harm will never again be allowed to get within striking range (i.e., NC or LC), but I, as an sane adult, have better things to do with my life than to dwell on the hurt and play the retribution game. So maybe the ultimate " revenge " is simply leaving her behind to wallow in her own misery. It does help - a lot! - that my mother is now elderly and clearly crazy (some dementia, some bizarre behavior that others have witnessed) - so she's not the powerful person she was years ago, when she was able to warp my world view and self-image. She's just old, crazy, and pathetic now. But what made the biggest difference was giving her mental illness a name, and realizing that it was her mind - not mine - that was crooked and diseased. Coming to this point took a while - and a complete re-examination of my attitudes toward a whole lot of things in my life. But finally, I've come to believe that she's sick, she did things based on that sickness, and while I'll never again allow her to influence my decisions (or get close to me or my family), there's just no need to engage with her in an attempt to explain, or lecture, or get her to hurt in return for what she did to me as a kid. It would be like talking to a frog, or a wall. There's no point, and I have other, better things to do. > > > > > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > > to.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness  I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry with her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am less of a person for it. I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel petty and small. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, forgiving is a pretty big deal. I mean I think that's my problem with the idea of forgiving her. It's a big deal for me, but she would just use it as a weakness..yah know? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness  I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry with her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am less of a person for it. I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel petty and small. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I definitely get it, . Times like this I wish we had 'real moms', huh? My sister is being weird to me lately, I think she is mad at me for standing up to my mom. So be it. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 4:00:53 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Well, forgiving is a pretty big deal. I mean I think that's my problem with the idea of forgiving her. It's a big deal for me, but she would just use it as a weakness..yah know? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry with her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am less of a person for it. I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel petty and small. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I wish we did too. And I know how you feel about the sister thing. My sisters act a lot like my mom, so anytime I try to stand up to any of them it's like i'm starting a war. lol To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness  I definitely get it, . Times like this I wish we had 'real moms', huh? My sister is being weird to me lately, I think she is mad at me for standing up to my mom. So be it. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 4:00:53 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Well, forgiving is a pretty big deal. I mean I think that's my problem with the idea of forgiving her. It's a big deal for me, but she would just use it as a weakness..yah know? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry with her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am less of a person for it. I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel petty and small. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Please, please, please don't feel awful about yourself - if this helps can you try feeling forgiveness for yourself for not forgiving? It's sounds like you're being awful hard on yourself and because you write here I guess that you've been through enough already. I'm no therapist for sure but I would have taken the size of my " non-forgivness " to be the size of pain that I have and then do my best to try and acknowledge that as whole.....until there was room for the question of forgiveness. Lavender > > > > > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > > to.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Honestly I never thought of forgiving myself. That is an interesting concept. I will try it, thank you. I am probably trying to rush the whole process of healing, I only recently found out what exactly BPD is and that my mom had it. I just thought she was 'crazy' and that was that. I spoke to my sister yesterday and nada had some brain scans, there was a tumor scare for a few days, but it's just 'darkened images'. It could have also been lesions, but they don't think it is. She told my sister not to tell me because I would then say " See, this is why Nada is crazy. " Uh. Ok. I had dreams about nada being abusive last night, just from talking to my sister. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 8:29:03 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please, please, please don't feel awful about yourself - if this helps can you try feeling forgiveness for yourself for not forgiving? It's sounds like you're being awful hard on yourself and because you write here I guess that you've been through enough already. I'm no therapist for sure but I would have taken the size of my " non-forgivness " to be the size of pain that I have and then do my best to try and acknowledge that as whole.....until there was room for the question of forgiveness. Lavender > > > > > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > > to.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Ohh. See, my sister is just 'broken'. She has no fight left in her and she just does what nada tells her to do. She has 0 self esteem or self worth. She is in her late 40's and still lives at home. She is morbidly obese. I think she resents me for 'rocking the boat' because I set boundaries with nada....I moved out when I was 17, etc. Nada treats her like a slave. My sister was recently diagnosed with LUPUS and nada questions the diagnosis, claiming that my sister made it up. /facepalm ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 9:37:41 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I wish we did too. And I know how you feel about the sister thing. My sisters act a lot like my mom, so anytime I try to stand up to any of them it's like i'm starting a war. lol To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I definitely get it, . Times like this I wish we had 'real moms', huh? My sister is being weird to me lately, I think she is mad at me for standing up to my mom. So be it. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 4:00:53 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Well, forgiving is a pretty big deal. I mean I think that's my problem with the idea of forgiving her. It's a big deal for me, but she would just use it as a weakness..yah know? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry with her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am less of a person for it. I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel petty and small. ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that scares me It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't help it. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forgiveness I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my stomach. And then I feel like an awful person. I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: Forgiveness Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right now. Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets there on their own terms. In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that could make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself to their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) Mia > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > to.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Guys my suggestion is to focus on every single feeling and forget about forgiveness. Be angry, be sad, be heartbroken, be betrayed. Once you have processes all these feelings lik 5,000 times you will just find yourself investing your time in other things. That's moving on. That's forgiveness. > ** > > > Ohh. > See, my sister is just 'broken'. She has no fight left in her and she just > does > what nada tells her to do. > She has 0 self esteem or self worth. She is in her late 40's and still > lives at > home. She is morbidly obese. > I think she resents me for 'rocking the boat' because I set boundaries with > > nada....I moved out when I was > 17, etc. > Nada treats her like a slave. > My sister was recently diagnosed with LUPUS and nada questions the > diagnosis, > claiming that my sister > made it up. > > /facepalm > > > ________________________________ > > To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 9:37:41 PM > > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > I wish we did too. And I know how you feel about the sister thing. My > sisters > act a lot like my mom, so anytime I try to stand up to any of them it's > like i'm > starting a war. lol > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > I definitely get it, . Times like this I wish we had 'real moms', > huh? > > My sister is being weird to me lately, I think she is mad at me for > standing up > to my mom. > > So be it. > > ________________________________ > > To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 4:00:53 PM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > Well, forgiving is a pretty big deal. I mean I think that's my problem with > the > idea of forgiving her. It's a big deal for me, but she would just use it as > a > weakness..yah know? > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:55 PM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > I don't know if I feel like I am letting HER down (I am still really angry > with > her for what she pulled on me with my horse) but I feel like I am > less of a person for it. > > I always tried to be the better person, but not forgiving makes me feel > petty > and small. > > ________________________________ > > To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 3:39:23 PM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > Me too Terri! I feel like I might not ever be able to forgive her, and that > > scares me > > It makes me feel like I'm letting her down in some way, but I just can't > help > it. > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > I am in the same exact boat about the forgiveness thing. > In fact, just thinking about TRYING to forgive her makes me feel sick to my > > stomach. > And then I feel like an awful person. > > I also wonder how long it will take to finally just be over it. > > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, July 29, 2011 10:02:17 AM > Subject: Re: Forgiveness > > Please don't feel guilty that you feel like you can't forgive her right > now. > Forgiveness is a lot like grieving... it takes time, and every person gets > there on their own terms. > > In my experiences with my nada & another borderline I know, forgiveness > likely would not cause her to stop lashing out. I'm not sure if you plan on > saying something to her like, " You know, I forgive you. " ly, that > could > make her lash out even more if she's like my nada and my fiance's likely > uBPD ex wife... because, doncha know, they're stinking perfect! > > So in my humble opinion, forgiveness comes from within the one trying to > forgive, and it doesn't even have to be spoken to the one you're forgiving. > Also, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to keep subjecting yourself > to > their toxic and abusive behaviors. Forgiving just means you're over it, > what was done is done. But for me, I can never forget. > > Be patient with yourself and healing & forgiveness will come =) > > Mia > > > > > > > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's > a > > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't > read > > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me > through. > > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug > use, > > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, > and > > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts > enough > > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could > handle > > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I > feel > > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be > able > > to.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Hope it helps....I've been listening a lot about self-compassion (guess it shows) and hoping to read a book by the same name soon. I just feel that we're beaten up by society and other people's expectations and opinions a lot and then beating ourselves up with our own barbed-wire coated baseball bats. I've had a bit of a rough time recently and often day dream of the very long queue of people just waiting to put me down and recently realized that I shouldn't add myself to the queue as it was long enough already! There is a phrase I hear used a lot 'befriending yourself' which I don't fully get but I think it means at a minimum to be on my own side. I relate to your nada's brain scan episode, the same would happen in my family if I were to ever raise the prospect of BPD (I haven't and don't think I will). Sadly, I wasn't surprised that talking to your sister caused you nightmares but really feel for you that you did. > > > > > > > > > > > So, I've recently startind reading " surviving the borderline mother " It's a > > > really good book and I feel like it helps me understand this illness. > > > However, when I got to the forgiveness chapter in the book I couldn't read > > > it. I don't know if I can forgive my nada for everything she put me through. > > > Not yet atleast. Especially since her idea of " forgiveness " is that > > > everything will be completely fine when I forgive her. like nothing ever > > > happened. After all of the years of her mental illness along with drug use, > > > I just don't think I can let her pretend like none of it ever happened, and > > > I know that's how she will be if I forgive her now. It already hurts enough > > > that she says some of it didn't take place. I don't know if I could handle > > > her denying everything completely. I guess when I got to that part of the > > > book I was just surprised. I feel guilty because I can't forgive her. I feel > > > like if I did then maybe she wouldn't lash out. But I just can't do it. I > > > can't take that step and I'm a little afraid that I might not ever be able > > > to.... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thumbs up on this! Forgiveness is for us to get ok with OURSELVES, not for *us* to get ok FOR THEM. From Mayo Clinic: " What is forgiveness? Generally, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge. The act that hurt or offended you may always remain a part of your life, but forgiveness can lessen its grip on you and help you focus on other, positive parts of your life. Forgiveness can even lead to feelings of understanding, empathy and compassion for the one who hurt you. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act. Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. " > > Guys my suggestion is to focus on every single feeling and forget about > forgiveness. Be angry, be sad, be heartbroken, be betrayed. Once you have > processes all these feelings lik 5,000 times you will just find yourself > investing your time in other things. That's moving on. That's forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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