emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

October 6, 2011

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 6, 2011

For us this ended up being PANDAS. It started as you describe and then just got worse. You may want to check for strep or mycoplasma pneumonia. RuthSent from my iPhone

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 6, 2011

My son can be the same way, he is 5. We have also considered PANDAS.During pre-k last year, he didn't get to hug his friend goodbye and he bolted out of the building to hug her. He left the group without warning or saying he was going to do it. He was snatched back inside

and managed to hold himself together till he got into the bathroom and then threw the commode tank cover at the preschool teacher for preventing the hug he wanted to give. He was 4 at the time and hurled thisthing at her. Despite this, the teachers do love him... they know he has some thing wrong that is causing

this kind of crap.Today wasn't a good day and I am still trying to figure it out. More on that later.However currently we are having a great deal of success with B6 and magnesium and a slew of other

what I would consider first line biomed treatments. Basic vitamins, but in therapeutic doses.The " bipolar " -ness of this is so hard... but there are people on the Low Oxalate list that can attest to dumping symptoms as looking like PANDAS flare. There is a lady on there whose child got the PANDAS

dx after being LOD for a while (before it was just " ASD " )Anyway, if you are willing to discuss diet, tell me about his favorite foods. :-)

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son " no " to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says " I want.... " I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says " YES!, i want... " and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says " yes, mom I feel better now " . I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

October 6, 2011

The day I dont give his EPO, he gets this stubborn behavior the next day.

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

October 7, 2011

For us, the precise thing you describe that I saw in my daughter was clostridia.I think our clostridia problem was my fault, entirely...I thought honey was " safe " so I let her have lots and lots of it -- turns out that honey has clostridia and that's why you're not supposed to feed it to infants under age 1 (and probably don't over do it with compromised immune systems). Our clostridia numbers went up something like 6-fold and then I started seeing this thing that you described with just absence of emotional regulation. Really angry meltdowns I'd never seen before. Our DAN said that clostridia is known to cause issues with emotional regulation.

And, lately, she's had a majorly bad ear infection, so she's had to be on 2 courses of abx to get rid of the ear infection -- and I think that helped reduce the clostridia a bit (I wouldn't go as far as thinking it's destroyed it permanently, but now I can fight it more with culturelle and sacc . She seems a bit closer back to her normal self (and poops are better, too).

I'd try some high doses of Culturelle (like 4 Culturelle/day for a few days) and Sacc B while keeping up your other probiotics to see if that makes a difference.

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son " no " to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says " I want.... " I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says " YES!, i want... " and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says " yes, mom I feel better now " . I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 7, 2011

Yes we went thru this. Daily. My son was like a wild animal. Age 4, we hid the knives, put top locks on all doors and had to keep him in time out. We tried calm jr and many other things. Our ND told us we had to cleanse his body and put him on many supplements to heal him. We were also dealing with asthma and many viruses. These kids can't help it. Their adreanal levels are so high. It was a slow process, but he is 80% better after 2 years. Changing his diet alone will make a difference. Foods in their natural state [veges, fruits] fish and Omegas [are calming] and water. No sugar at all. Raw local honey or agave. Thats a good start.

Always Call

Christie Gravatt

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience!

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and

go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 7, 2011

um. yes I know that behavior very well:)

for me it was caused by three things. treating for metals was one thing that helped (with AC chelation). cause mercury makes people CRAZY! just look at me.

then after the chelation got going these behaviors were caused by one of two things adrenal fatigue or BACTERIA!

usually it was bacteria but you could treat one first and if it doesnt help go to the other.

i use a adrenal herbal tonic formula that helped him.

for bacteria that was not so easy as diffrent antibacterials work for diffrent people.

i do naturals mostly. right now i use MMS and a chinese herbal blend.

but in the past goldenseal was effective for me.

channa

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 7:28 AMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

For us, the precise thing you describe that I saw in my daughter was clostridia.I think our clostridia problem was my fault, entirely...I thought honey was "safe" so I let her have lots and lots of it -- turns out that honey has clostridia and that's why you're not supposed to feed it to infants under age 1 (and probably don't over do it with compromised immune systems). Our clostridia numbers went up something like 6-fold and then I started seeing this thing that you described with just absence of emotional regulation. Really angry meltdowns I'd never seen before. Our DAN said that clostridia is known to cause issues with emotional regulation.And, lately, she's had a majorly bad ear infection, so she's had to be on 2 courses of abx to get rid of the ear infection -- and I think that helped reduce the clostridia a bit (I wouldn't go as far as thinking it's destroyed it permanently, but now I can fight it more with

culturelle and sacc . She seems a bit closer back to her normal self (and poops are better, too). I'd try some high doses of Culturelle (like 4 Culturelle/day for a few days) and Sacc B while keeping up your other probiotics to see if that makes a difference.

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and

go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 7, 2011

yes diet is huge..of course:)

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 11:00 PMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

My son can be the same way, he is 5. We have also considered PANDAS.During pre-k last year, he didn't get to hug his friend goodbye and he bolted out of the building to hug her. He left the group without warning or saying he was going to do it. He was snatched back insideand managed to hold himself together till he got into the bathroom and then threw the commode tank cover at the preschool teacher for preventing the hug he wanted to give. He was 4 at the time and hurled thisthing at her. Despite this, the teachers do love him... they know he has some thing wrong that is causing this kind of crap.Today wasn't a good day and I am still trying to figure it out. More on that later.However currently we are having a great deal of success with B6 and magnesium and a slew of otherwhat I would consider first line biomed treatments. Basic vitamins, but in therapeutic doses.The "bipolar"-ness of this is

so hard... but there are people on the Low Oxalate list that can attest to dumping symptoms as looking like PANDAS flare. There is a lady on there whose child got the PANDASdx after being LOD for a while (before it was just "ASD")Anyway, if you are willing to discuss diet, tell me about his favorite foods. :-)

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and

go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

October 8, 2011

Several people have already suggested to look into bacteria. For us penicillin V- phenoxymethylpenicillin - is helping tremendously in this area (it is supposed to target strep but is active against several other types). My friend's son is 'neurotypical' but has these meltdown episodes, also mild OCD. His tonsils are constantly enlarged, his mainstream doc has recommended tonsillectomy (this is in another country where tonsillectomy is much more common then in the West). Natasa > > > > > > > Â > > > > Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times.Â one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out.Â Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...."Â I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic.Â That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to> insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with).Â Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now".Â I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.Â > Â > Â Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom.Â He's what most people would call high functioning Autism.Â He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm atÂ a loss of what to do.Â Â It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks.Â NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.> Â > I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.Â > Â > Thanks> Becky>

October 10, 2011

My son used to have huge tantrums... they nearly stopped on a dime when we started LDN (low dose naltrexone)... they have continued to improve on Dr. Goldbergs NIDS protocol (though he doesn't approve of LDN... when we stopped LDN, our son's moods/OCD did regress some though not back to pre-LDN levels... now however he is back to where he was on LDN or better through the NIDS protocol). For us the most important aspect seems to be diet, diet , diet. When he's having a problem it usually means he's eating something that's causing a reaction. (also he gets dark circles under his eyes) Another thing that our child benefited from when he was having a melt down was activated charcoal (we disolved half a capsule in juice (and made sure he ate something or it would give him a tummy ache)... it almost always helped... which makes the connection to diet seem even more likely)

Also, personally I have had success with rescue remedy when I'm having anxiety attacks. I hear they make a child version as well ... might be worth trying.

NIDS diet made huge improvments for our son (we had previously tried GFCFSF, and specific carbohydrate)

if interested this is the NIDS diet: No dairy, no whole grains (of any kind), (though occasional processed white bread is ok, and processed cereals like rice krispys or corn flakes seems ok) no nuts/seeds/legume type nuts (some kids can have a very processed peanut butter, though not ours), no berries, cherries or tropical fruit, no blue or red food dye, low sugar, more protein (zone diet balance is optimal) and for our son no soy, no cocoa. (some kids have additional sensitivities too like bht, eggs or food additives, honey, molasses, etc.)

good luck.

October 10, 2011

is there a test you can run to see if your child would respond to NIDS diet. My son seems to by cycling like a mood disorder or biopolar kid. Yesterday he was kinda lethargic all day and somewhat weepy (Very uncharacteristic of him). Then about 5:00 he got manic and running around laughing, then by 6:00 was ok but when getting into bed, was weepy again. This morning he was hyper and scripting up at 5:30a.m, I just knew he would have a bad day at school b/c he could not turn off his scripts and laughing, but instead I heard it was an absoultely Wonderful day with on task behaviors, ease of tranisitions, and all kinds of spontaneous conversation initiation and maintence. At about 5:00 tonight he got irritable out of nowhere, chilled by 5:40, somewhat

hyper again wanting to play chase and really needing to move at 6:30, by 7:00 after lots of movement he became calm with only a slight bit of hyperness which was remedied by a bike ride, 7:30 bath with epsom salt- was fine, and now at 8:10 he is bouncing off the walls. I find no link, no common time, no diet, no supplement, no NOTHING to help me link anything good or bad too...its making me insane!

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:36 PMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

My son used to have huge tantrums... they nearly stopped on a dime when we started LDN (low dose naltrexone)... they have continued to improve on Dr. Goldbergs NIDS protocol (though he doesn't approve of LDN... when we stopped LDN, our son's moods/OCD did regress some though not back to pre-LDN levels... now however he is back to where he was on LDN or better through the NIDS protocol). For us the most important aspect seems to be diet, diet , diet. When he's having a problem it usually means he's eating something that's causing a reaction. (also he gets dark circles under his eyes) Another thing that our child benefited from when he was having a melt down was activated charcoal (we disolved half a capsule in juice (and made sure he ate something or it would give him a tummy ache)... it almost always helped... which makes the connection to diet seem even more likely)

Also, personally I have had success with rescue remedy when I'm having anxiety attacks. I hear they make a child version as well ... might be worth trying.

NIDS diet made huge improvments for our son (we had previously tried GFCFSF, and specific carbohydrate)

if interested this is the NIDS diet: No dairy, no whole grains (of any kind), (though occasional processed white bread is ok, and processed cereals like rice krispys or corn flakes seems ok) no nuts/seeds/legume type nuts (some kids can have a very processed peanut butter, though not ours), no berries, cherries or tropical fruit, no blue or red food dye, low sugar, more protein (zone diet balance is optimal) and for our son no soy, no cocoa. (some kids have additional sensitivities too like bht, eggs or food additives, honey, molasses, etc.)

good luck.

October 10, 2011

In my house that's bacteria or ammonia, typically. Or if I've run out of something...lol!

~Cheryl

Sent from my EVO. These are not the typos you are looking for...

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son " no " to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says " I want.... " I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says " YES!, i want... " and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about

10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says " yes, mom I feel better now " . I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 10, 2011

I wonder if his blood sugar is fluctuating?To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:21 PMSubject: Re: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

is there a test you can run to see if your child would respond to NIDS diet. My son seems to by cycling like a mood disorder or biopolar kid. Yesterday he was kinda lethargic all day and somewhat weepy (Very uncharacteristic of him). Then about 5:00 he got manic and running around laughing, then by 6:00 was ok but when getting into bed, was weepy again. This morning he was hyper and scripting up at 5:30a.m, I just knew he would have a bad day at school b/c he could not turn off his scripts and laughing, but instead I heard it was an absoultely Wonderful day with on task behaviors, ease of tranisitions, and all kinds of spontaneous conversation initiation and maintence. At about 5:00 tonight he got irritable out of nowhere, chilled by 5:40, somewhat

hyper again wanting to play chase and really needing to move at 6:30, by 7:00 after lots of movement he became calm with only a slight bit of hyperness which was remedied by a bike ride, 7:30 bath with epsom salt- was fine, and now at 8:10 he is bouncing off the walls. I find no link, no common time, no diet, no supplement, no NOTHING to help me link anything good or bad too...its making me insane!

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:36 PMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

My son used to have huge tantrums... they nearly stopped on a dime when we started LDN (low dose naltrexone)... they have continued to improve on Dr. Goldbergs NIDS protocol (though he doesn't approve of LDN... when we stopped LDN, our son's moods/OCD did regress some though not back to pre-LDN levels... now however he is back to where he was on LDN or better through the NIDS protocol). For us the most important aspect seems to be diet, diet , diet. When he's having a problem it usually means he's eating something that's causing a reaction. (also he gets dark circles under his eyes) Another thing that our child benefited from when he was having a melt down was activated charcoal (we disolved half a capsule in juice (and made sure he ate something or it would give him a tummy ache)... it almost always helped... which makes the connection to diet seem even more

likely)

Also, personally I have had success with rescue remedy when I'm having anxiety attacks. I hear they make a child version as well ... might be worth trying.

NIDS diet made huge improvments for our son (we had previously tried GFCFSF, and specific carbohydrate)

if interested this is the NIDS diet: No dairy, no whole grains (of any kind), (though occasional processed white bread is ok, and processed cereals like rice krispys or corn flakes seems ok) no nuts/seeds/legume type nuts (some kids can have a very processed peanut butter, though not ours), no berries, cherries or tropical fruit, no blue or red food dye, low sugar, more protein (zone diet balance is optimal) and for our son no soy, no cocoa. (some kids have additional sensitivities too like bht, eggs or food additives, honey, molasses, etc.)

good luck.

October 10, 2011

Good point. That was also something that happened to us when G was super self-limiting his diet. That seems like ages ago - well it kinda was...maybe 3 years ago?

~Cheryl

Sent from my EVO. These are not the typos you are looking for...

I wonder if his blood sugar is fluctuating?

To: " mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:21 PMSubject: Re: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

is there a test you can run to see if your child would respond to NIDS diet. My son seems to by cycling like a mood disorder or biopolar kid. Yesterday he was kinda lethargic all day and somewhat weepy (Very uncharacteristic of him). Then about 5:00 he got manic and running around laughing, then by 6:00 was ok but when getting into bed, was weepy again. This morning he was hyper and scripting up at 5:30a.m, I just knew he would have a bad day at school b/c he could not turn off his scripts and laughing, but instead I heard it was an absoultely Wonderful day with on task behaviors, ease of tranisitions, and all kinds of spontaneous conversation initiation and maintence. At about 5:00 tonight he got irritable out of nowhere, chilled by 5:40, somewhat

hyper again wanting to play chase and really needing to move at 6:30, by 7:00 after lots of movement he became calm with only a slight bit of hyperness which was remedied by a bike ride, 7:30 bath with epsom salt- was fine, and now at 8:10 he is bouncing off the walls. I find no link, no common time, no diet, no supplement, no NOTHING to help me link anything good or bad too...its making me insane!

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:36 PM

Subject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

My son used to have huge tantrums... they nearly stopped on a dime when we started LDN (low dose naltrexone)... they have continued to improve on Dr. Goldbergs NIDS protocol (though he doesn't approve of LDN... when we stopped LDN, our son's moods/OCD did regress some though not back to pre-LDN levels... now however he is back to where he was on LDN or better through the NIDS protocol). For us the most important aspect seems to be diet, diet , diet. When he's having a problem it usually means he's eating something that's causing a reaction. (also he gets dark circles under his eyes) Another thing that our child benefited from when he was having a melt down was activated charcoal (we disolved half a capsule in juice (and made sure he ate something or it would give him a tummy ache)... it almost always helped... which makes the connection to diet seem even more

likely)

Also, personally I have had success with rescue remedy when I'm having anxiety attacks. I hear they make a child version as well ... might be worth trying.

NIDS diet made huge improvments for our son (we had previously tried GFCFSF, and specific carbohydrate)

if interested this is the NIDS diet: No dairy, no whole grains (of any kind), (though occasional processed white bread is ok, and processed cereals like rice krispys or corn flakes seems ok) no nuts/seeds/legume type nuts (some kids can have a very processed peanut butter, though not ours), no berries, cherries or tropical fruit, no blue or red food dye, low sugar, more protein (zone diet balance is optimal) and for our son no soy, no cocoa. (some kids have additional sensitivities too like bht, eggs or food additives, honey, molasses, etc.)

good luck.

October 11, 2011

It's a full moon today. You can see if his behaviors are cycling a few days before and after the full moon each month.

Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

My son used to have huge tantrums... they nearly stopped on a dime when we started LDN (low dose naltrexone)... they have continued to improve on Dr. Goldbergs NIDS protocol (though he doesn't approve of LDN... when we stopped LDN, our son's moods/OCD did regress some though not back to pre-LDN levels... now however he is back to where he was on LDN or better through the NIDS protocol). For us the most important aspect seems to be diet, diet , diet. When he's having a problem it usually means he's eating something that's causing a reaction. (also he gets dark circles under his eyes) Another thing that our child benefited from when he was having a melt down was activated charcoal (we disolved half a capsule in juice (and made sure he ate something or it would give him a tummy ache)... it almost always helped... which makes the connection to diet seem even more likely)

Also, personally I have had success with rescue remedy when I'm having anxiety attacks. I hear they make a child version as well ... might be worth trying.

NIDS diet made huge improvments for our son (we had previously tried GFCFSF, and specific carbohydrate)

if interested this is the NIDS diet: No dairy, no whole grains (of any kind), (though occasional processed white bread is ok, and processed cereals like rice krispys or corn flakes seems ok) no nuts/seeds/legume type nuts (some kids can have a very processed peanut butter, though not ours), no berries, cherries or tropical fruit, no blue or red food dye, low sugar, more protein (zone diet balance is optimal) and for our son no soy, no cocoa. (some kids have additional sensitivities too like bht, eggs or food additives, honey, molasses, etc.)

good luck.

October 12, 2011

Has your child been treated for Candida with Nizoral or Diflucan? Sounds like that might be an issue.Best,Marcia

October 12, 2011

I am having trouble finding Culturelle. Where did u get it? Thanks!!!!!!

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 7:28 AMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

For us, the precise thing you describe that I saw in my daughter was clostridia.I think our clostridia problem was my fault, entirely...I thought honey was "safe" so I let her have lots and lots of it -- turns out that honey has clostridia and that's why you're not supposed to feed it to infants under age 1 (and probably don't over do it with compromised immune systems). Our clostridia numbers went up something like 6-fold and then I started seeing this thing that you described with just absence of emotional regulation. Really angry meltdowns I'd never seen before. Our DAN said that clostridia is known to cause issues with emotional regulation.And, lately, she's had a majorly bad ear infection, so she's had to be on 2 courses of abx to get rid of the ear infection -- and I think that helped reduce the clostridia a bit (I wouldn't go as far as thinking it's destroyed it permanently, but now I can fight it more with

culturelle and sacc . She seems a bit closer back to her normal self (and poops are better, too). I'd try some high doses of Culturelle (like 4 Culturelle/day for a few days) and Sacc B while keeping up your other probiotics to see if that makes a difference.

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and

go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 12, 2011

Not Alberta but I've gotten it in Walgreens, CVS and Rite Aid. They will have buy one get one free sales every so often. Someone else mentioned Target. In North Carolina it's also in the Teeter grocery store. Online vitacost.com should carry it. It comes in dairy free if you need it.

Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???

For us, the precise thing you describe that I saw in my daughter was clostridia.

I think our clostridia problem was my fault, entirely...I thought honey was "safe" so I let her have lots and lots of it -- turns out that honey has clostridia and that's why you're not supposed to feed it to infants under age 1 (and probably don't over do it with compromised immune systems). Our clostridia numbers went up something like 6-fold and then I started seeing this thing that you described with just absence of emotional regulation. Really angry meltdowns I'd never seen before. Our DAN said that clostridia is known to cause issues with emotional regulation.

And, lately, she's had a majorly bad ear infection, so she's had to be on 2 courses of abx to get rid of the ear infection -- and I think that helped reduce the clostridia a bit (I wouldn't go as far as thinking it's destroyed it permanently, but now I can fight it more with culturelle and sacc . She seems a bit closer back to her normal self (and poops are better, too).

I'd try some high doses of Culturelle (like 4 Culturelle/day for a few days) and Sacc B while keeping up your other probiotics to see if that makes a difference.

Just curious if any of you deal with emotional defiance that seems to come out of nowhere at times. one day I can tell my 8 y.o son "no" to a request and he handles it fine, another day same request, same no and he flips out. Actually the flip out gradually shows itself, he whines about the no I gave him, I try to explain, he gets gruff voice and says "I want...." I again explain and then with gruff voice and kicking or hitting he says "YES!, i want..." and it builds up to creshendo with screaming at the top of his lungs (a scream that one would do when you've had all you can take and you scream to get it all out kinda scream- the scream you do in your pillow b/c it's so loud) with tears and kicking and more random top of lungs screaming etc... like he's gone balistic. That lasts about 10-15 mins then he angrily chills (if I put him in time out during any of the building up to the meltdown, he will bypass the slow build and go straight to insanity- which sometimes I push just to get it over with). Then once he's chilled out I can say are you ok now and he always says "yes, mom I feel better now". I've always found it interesting that he uses those words... I FEEL better now.

Typically my son is pretty chill and is happy to participate (for the most part when he's not scripting) in his regular education 2nd grade classroom. He's what most people would call high functioning Autism. He can communicate about as well as a 3 year old so he can definantly get his wants and needs met and comment on random stuff within his life and has insight into things, so this behavior is not what I am used to and I'm at a loss of what to do. It's even harder b/c I am a psychologist and I've exhausted my bag of tricks. NOTHING I am doing is able to stop the train from leaving the station once it's started. As I continue this journey I see now why people used to think our kids were schizophrenic or bipolar in years past.

I just wonder if anyone has had experiences with parasites or viral issues etc that have given the same results of insane behavior.

Thanks

Becky

October 12, 2011

that's odd. you should be able to find it easily. grocery store, pharmacy, on-line, it's available pretty much everywhere. It comes in a box.....why, I don't know. it won't be in the refrigerated section (in case that's where you've been looking). It'll be on the shelf with the other probiotics.

hth,

-Tammy

To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex >Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 7:14 PMSubject: Re: emotional defiance out of nowhere- bugs???