RE: Stimming?

[Guest guest]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is stimming? Is it a stereotyped behavior? And what would be a vestibular stiming?Thanks.Ratan.To: mb12valtrex From: cathcall@...Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:43:25 +0000Subject: Re: Stimming: visual, vestibular and verbal endlessly

The high vitamin A protocol relieved visual stimming for us. Our doctor had us do it every six weeks until we stopped seeing gains from it. Our son would get a low grade fever every time we did it and then have gains afterward. We did it maybe 5 times where we saw the fever and gains. He is on a daily maintenance dose of A through his Cod Liver Oil.

You do need to be aware that vitamin A is fat soluable and can be toxic, but we never had issues doing it every six weeks, even with the maintenance dose in between. If you choose to do the protocol, just research the signs of toxicity so you know what to look for.

Cathy

>

> Hi everyone

>

> I am soo soo in awe of the kindness, generosity and knowledge of you all. I hope to be like you one day, but for now, I am just stumped by some of my son's autism like behaviour. We have a biomed doc that is very cautious, and have been pill popping for years.

>

> Her answer for the endless visual, vestibular and verbal stimming ( it is not getting any better) is magnesium (test) and Vitamin A check.

>

> Just curious to here what you parents think?

>

> We are taking lots of things incl. CLO (I was only taking this once a day, but have changed to 2x, Biofilm protocol, Typical cocktail of biomed stuff. We are doing Neurofeedback, Primitive reflex stuff also.

>

> cheers

>

> Australia

>

[Guest guest]

Stimming is self stimulation behavior. My son's visual stimming was looking out

the side of his eyes as he walked along next to something with lines (tables,

blinds, signs at the park) and repetitive finger movements in front of his eyes

(he would " open and close " his fingers repetitively.) He would also open and

close doors and books repetitively, watching the lines.

Cathy

>

> >

>

> > Hi everyone

>

> >

>

> > I am soo soo in awe of the kindness, generosity and knowledge of you all.

I hope to be like you one day, but for now, I am just stumped by some of my

son's autism like behaviour. We have a biomed doc that is very cautious, and

have been pill popping for years.

>

> >

>

> > Her answer for the endless visual, vestibular and verbal stimming ( it is

not getting any better) is magnesium (test) and Vitamin A check.

>

> >

>

> > Just curious to here what you parents think?

>

> >

>

> > We are taking lots of things incl. CLO (I was only taking this once a day,

but have changed to 2x, Biofilm protocol, Typical cocktail of biomed stuff. We

are doing Neurofeedback, Primitive reflex stuff also.

>

> >

>

> > cheers

>

> >

>

> > Australia

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ratan

" Stimming " is a repetitive self stimulation that people can seek. Vestibular

stimming for my son is running back forth in a lineal pattern, also while

waving blade of grass/ribbon (visual stim) plus a few verbal stims like sounds

while doing it. It is pretty typical of an Autism diagnosis, but not all may do

it, or some version of it.

Here is a link

http://www.autism-help.org/behavior-stimming-autism.htm

Hi Cathy

thanks for the advice on the vitamin A protocol. I shall check with the Dr to

see what this involves.

cheers

>

> >

>

> > Hi everyone

>

> >

>

> > I am soo soo in awe of the kindness, generosity and knowledge of you all.

I hope to be like you one day, but for now, I am just stumped by some of my

son's autism like behaviour. We have a biomed doc that is very cautious, and

have been pill popping for years.

>

> >

>

> > Her answer for the endless visual, vestibular and verbal stimming ( it is

not getting any better) is magnesium (test) and Vitamin A check.

>

> >

>

> > Just curious to here what you parents think?

>

> >

>

> > We are taking lots of things incl. CLO (I was only taking this once a day,

but have changed to 2x, Biofilm protocol, Typical cocktail of biomed stuff. We

are doing Neurofeedback, Primitive reflex stuff also.

>

> >

>

> > cheers

>

> >

>

> > Australia

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In our house, this was a symptom, not a behavior and it went away within days of

starting Kirkman's CLO.

>

> Stimming is self stimulation behavior. My son's visual stimming was looking

out the side of his eyes as he walked along next to something with lines

(tables, blinds, signs at the park) and repetitive finger movements in front of

his eyes (he would " open and close " his fingers repetitively.) He would also

open and close doors and books repetitively, watching the lines...

[Guest guest]

Well, agreed. It went away with high vitamin A protocol and maintenance A

through CLO in our house.

Cathy

> >

> > Stimming is self stimulation behavior. My son's visual stimming was looking

out the side of his eyes as he walked along next to something with lines

(tables, blinds, signs at the park) and repetitive finger movements in front of

his eyes (he would " open and close " his fingers repetitively.) He would also

open and close doors and books repetitively, watching the lines...

>

[Guest guest]

my son used to wave his hands in front of his eyes but didnt lookn at things from the side until he fell ill and the doc told me to do a three day vit a protocol,that was the the begignig of severe side gazzing and more visual stimming.will you happen to know why this happened?

[Guest guest]

Yes...Our stim behaviors here were rocking back and forth, running back and forth and slamming into the couch cushions. I try to redirect this to the trampoline.Visual stims for my son, flipping light switches, throwing toys up and down in the air (for the purposes of just watching them go up and down, not to catch them or in the course of play) and today he was blinking. Niiice. Guess I need to give him a dose of vit A!!!

My kids also have activity stims which are things they do to calm them down like my daughter plays with her stuffed animals and tells stories.My son builds with his legos.Why are these " stims " and not just things they enjoy doing? I guess because they enjoy it too much, ie do it all day and for no real reason but to CALM themselves.

I guess playing Angry Birds or twirling your hair would be adult versions of stims. LOL ;-)

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what is stimming? Is it a stereotyped behavior? And what would be a vestibular stiming?Thanks.Ratan.-- Toni------

Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Seems to me a repetitive behavior is a stim. Now, for visual stimming I can understand the need for vitamin A. But for other stims I suppose high strength probiotics such asVSL #3 and bifido strains will be more logical. Perhaps niacin should also be added and of course B12.Its my guess.----------------Ratan Singh, Phone: 91 141 2652561, mail: ratanpsych@...- Certificate in Food & Nutrition; Diploma in Nutrition and Health Education; Life Member, Nutrition Soc. of India; Member ISOM- Author of "Nutrition & Supplements in Major Mental Illnesses";- M.A. (Psychol), Postgraduate Diploma in Medical & Social Psychology, Ph.D.;- Certified Behavior Therapist (from late Prof. J. Wolpe's Unit, Temple Univ Med School, USA);- www.RegainMentalHealth.com/ www.jaipurmart.com/trade/meditationandhealthTo: mb12valtrex From: bellbaby@...Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:50:35 -0400Subject: Re: Stimming?

Yes...Our stim behaviors here were rocking back and forth, running back and forth and slamming into the couch cushions. I try to redirect this to the trampoline.Visual stims for my son, flipping light switches, throwing toys up and down in the air (for the purposes of just watching them go up and down, not to catch them or in the course of play) and today he was blinking. Niiice. Guess I need to give him a dose of vit A!!!

My kids also have activity stims which are things they do to calm them down like my daughter plays with her stuffed animals and tells stories.My son builds with his legos.Why are these "stims" and not just things they enjoy doing? I guess because they enjoy it too much, ie do it all day and for no real reason but to CALM themselves.

I guess playing Angry Birds or twirling your hair would be adult versions of stims. LOL ;-)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is stimming? Is it a stereotyped behavior? And what would be a vestibular stiming?Thanks.Ratan.-- Toni------

Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Thank you !!! You are all amazing! I have learned so much already, and this is my first time reading the communications! I would like to do the vitamin A with my son, but I realize it can be toxic, any suggestions on where to start? He is 5 and weighs about 38 lbs.

Also, He is such a picky eater, will only eat fries, and beef, turkey, or chicken nuggets that I fry at home. His ot is working on helping with this, but he is so skinny, and although his ped dr doesn't seemed too concerned I am! I can't seem to get him to eat anything else! HELP! =-)

Thank you

Kerry

[Guest guest]

We have verbal stims that drive me crazy. WE are giving Saccharomyces boulardii and have been taking it for a couple months. Should we switch to VSL 3? Does Vsl contain dairy or any strep strains??? Thanks! ANG

To: mb12valtrex Cc: bellbaby@...Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:21 AMSubject: RE: Stimming?

Seems to me a repetitive behavior is a stim. Now, for visual stimming I can understand the need for vitamin A. But for other stims I suppose high strength probiotics such asVSL #3 and bifido strains will be more logical. Perhaps niacin should also be added and of course B12.Its my guess.----------------

Ratan Singh, Phone: 91 141 2652561, mail: ratanpsych@...- Certificate in Food & Nutrition; Diploma in Nutrition and Health Education; Life Member, Nutrition Soc. of India; Member ISOM- Author of "Nutrition & Supplements in Major Mental Illnesses";- M.A. (Psychol), Postgraduate Diploma in Medical & Social Psychology, Ph.D.;- Certified Behavior Therapist (from late Prof. J. Wolpe's Unit, Temple Univ Med School, USA);- www.RegainMentalHealth.com/ www.jaipurmart.com/trade/meditationandhealth

To: mb12valtrex From: bellbaby@...Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:50:35 -0400Subject: Re: Stimming?

Yes...Our stim behaviors here were rocking back and forth, running back and forth and slamming into the couch cushions. I try to redirect this to the trampoline.Visual stims for my son, flipping light switches, throwing toys up and down in the air (for the purposes of just watching them go up and down, not to catch them or in the course of play) and today he was blinking. Niiice. Guess I need to give him a dose of vit A!!!My kids also have activity stims which are things they do to calm them down like my daughter plays with her stuffed animals and tells stories.My son builds with his legos.Why are these "stims" and not just things they enjoy doing? I guess because they enjoy it too much, ie do it all day and for no real reason but to CALM themselves.I guess playing Angry Birds or twirling your hair would be adult versions of stims. LOL ;-)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is stimming? Is it a stereotyped behavior? And what would be a vestibular stiming?Thanks.Ratan.-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Yes. It contains Lactobacillus, Bifido, and Streptococcus thermophilus.Ayse

[Guest guest]

Comments within, brace yourselves, it's long:

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

Seems to me a repetitive behavior is a stim. Pretty muchNow, for visual stimming I can understand the need for vitamin A. I think maybe you don't. You're assuming its vitamin A because it's good for the eyes. But many times it has less to do with the eyes and more to do with viruses causing the processing of information from eye to brain to go askew. When this happens, it stunts the vestibular system as visual stims are based in the vestibular system's recognition of movement. Holding things close to the eye or moving while staring at lines all create a sense of movement. Our kids seek things they aren't getting enough of - they have weak sense of where they are in space and visual stims stimulate the vestibular system. What most typical kids get through normal "baby" behavior, ours don't because the wiring got screwed up. Vitamin A can help, along with other antivirals, to correct the problem because it usually stems from viruses, the immune response and inflammation. It comes down to the basic concept of: when you're sick, things don't work properly (or in our kids' case, develop properly). OT and visual therapy usually help because it directly focuses on developing the underdeveloped vestibular system. Certainly, there will be some that don't have a viral problem and vitamin A might simply be working on the eyes themselves, but visual stims usually have less to do with actual eye problems. Generally speaking, it's convergence, sensory processing, visual processing system, vestibular system and viral. Astronaut Training tends to really highlight the problem when you put kids on a platform swing, swing them then stop them suddenly, you can see what kind of response you get. If you spin in circles on a platform swing sitting upright then stop, the eyes should move quickly up and down for about 6-8 seconds. When you spin in circles on side, the eyes should move sideways. Most of our kids will have maybe a 2 second response. My son had 0 response.It's rarely an actual eye problem. Even opthomologists that treat with visual therapy know that it's usually more of a vestibular/visual system problem than a problem with the actual eye. Everything our kids go through is more about processing and figuring out why our kids aren't processing the information the way they are supposed to.It's why a 3 year old ASD child has little to no fear of things like heights, will climb, has incredible balance - because they don't know they should be afraid. They don't know they should move slower. They don't know they are too high. They have the ability to move around with the fear response of a 6 month old. My son would blow the other typical kids out of the water at the playground, climbing and walking the low wall around the parks. Now that he's older, those systems are developed more like a typical kid and he now has a "normal" fear response. He isn't crazy enough to climb too high anymore.What pushes our kids into recovery is just as much time as it is therapy and biomed.But for other stims I suppose high strength probiotics such asVSL #3 and bifido strains will be more logical. Perhaps niacin should also be added and of course B12.Its my guess.Again, it depends on what is causing the stim. None of those would do anything for my son's stims. Granted, he didn't have many but he had enough. Not all kids can tolerate B's and B12. I don't really see why you would think VSL3 and probiotics would be "logical" to treat stims - I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely interested - because it seems rather the opposite to me. Everything you said, would actually make my son worse, not better - because these are things that tend to cause more issues for him than correct. Getting to the root of what causes the stim is the best way to treat a stim (aside from therapy and coping skills).This is one of the biggest problems in biomed - getting to the root of the matter. It's such an intricate web of interconnectedness that the likelihood of finding this out in our lifetime is pretty slim. We know many of the things that are happening - but we don't know why. And until we are able to find that out, we'll always be treating symptoms. I hear doctors and parents talking all the time how their protocol treats the root or that doing this treatment or that treatment gets to the root but the fact of the matter is, we are *all* treating symptoms. Changing the diet is treating a symptom. Supplements is treating a symptom. Antivirals is treating a symptom. Tracing those symptoms back to the their root cause is near impossible because there are so many possible reasons. We know the assaults - environment, vaccines, illness, etc. But we don't what buttons it turns off to make us intolerant to food, what makes our immune system not react like a typical persons, why is the processing not functioning? Why do we have vitamin deficiencies? So much of it is unknown and when I say something like "visual stims were caused by viruses in my house" it doesn't mean that it ends there. What caused the viruses to become stealth? Why is it affecting his immune system so badly - other people carry the same viruses but they don't have autism. It's like looking at things on a ladder. At the very bottom of the ladder you have the behavioral symptom. All the rungs represent causes. At the very top rung, which could potentially end up being miles away from the bottom rung, is what's going on on the cellular level. There's a lot of things happening in between all because that one switch was turned off.Mind mapping something like that would be super intense. I don't even want to think about how large that mind map would have to be.Anyway, I could go on forever with a gazillion examples and many more theories and such. If you've made it this far, congratulations for suffering through! Lol!

[Guest guest]

So if we have trouble with getting strep throat we should avoid VSL 3??

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:27 PMSubject: Re: Stimming?

Yes. It contains Lactobacillus, Bifido, and Streptococcus thermophilus.

Ayse

[Guest guest]

Here is a link describing the protocol and signs of toxicity:

http://chapmannd.com/uploads///Vitamin%20A%20in%20autism.pdf

The link says in three divided doses over 2 days (I assume she means three doses

each day.) Our doctor had us do it as 200,000 iu each day in two doses for each

day. In other words, we did 100,000 iu in the morning and evening of each day

for two days. Our maintenance dose is 5,000 iu each day from Cod Liver Oil.

The high dose protocol has to be done with a mycellized Vitamin A product

(liquid), not Cod Liver Oil (it would be too much oil.)

HTH,

Cathy

>

> Thank you !!!  You are all amazing!  I have learned so much already, and this

is my first time reading the communications!  I would like to do the vitamin A

with my son, but I realize it can be toxic, any suggestions on where to start? 

He is 5 and weighs about 38 lbs. 

> Also, He is such a picky eater, will only eat fries, and beef, turkey, or

chicken nuggets that I fry at home.  His ot is working on helping with this, but

he is so skinny, and although his ped dr doesn't seemed too concerned I am! I

can't seem to get him to eat anything else!  HELP! =-)

>  

>  

> Thank you

>  

> Kerry

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cathy

Thank you so much for that protocol!!!!, it is much clearer than the one I found

googling.

many thanks

>

> Here is a link describing the protocol and signs of toxicity:

>

> http://chapmannd.com/uploads///Vitamin%20A%20in%20autism.pdf

>

> The link says in three divided doses over 2 days (I assume she means three

doses each day.) Our doctor had us do it as 200,000 iu each day in two doses for

each day. In other words, we did 100,000 iu in the morning and evening of each

day for two days. Our maintenance dose is 5,000 iu each day from Cod Liver Oil.

The high dose protocol has to be done with a mycellized Vitamin A product

(liquid), not Cod Liver Oil (it would be too much oil.)

>

> HTH,

> Cathy

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you have any kind of problem with strep I would avoid them to be on the safe side. My son's OCD went crazy when I used probiotic with strep strains in it. If your child has PANDAS definitely avoid them.

Ayse

[Guest guest]

Hi Ayse

Thanks

In fact we have been using one with a bit of strep in it. I shall check with

the doc.

cheers

>

> If you have any kind of problem with strep I would avoid them to be on the

> safe side. My son's OCD went crazy when I used probiotic with strep strains

> in it. If your child has PANDAS definitely avoid them.

>

> Ayse

>