Nada wants to meet to discuss my letter

[Guest guest]

I'm now on a weekly phone call basis with nada, which is all right, I guess. I'd

prefer every 2 weeks and am already working towards it in my head!

When we spoke this morning she asked, for a second time, if we could meet to

discuss the extremely honest letter I'd sent her a few weeks ago.  The first

time she'd asked, I said, " well, I'd like that, Mom. " , knowing full well that

she probably didn't want to do anything of the kind.

So, I was surprised when she brought it up again. I don't mind talking about it,

but I wonder what good it will do as I agree with my T, who says don't expect

your mother to take responsibility for her actions or to agree with you. In

fact, expect her to turn it all around and dump the blame for everything you

bring up right back into your lap.  

What I expect is for her to bring her own list of grievances against me and her

list of all the ways I've screwed up her life.

The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not at her

house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't want to go

out. "  So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.  In a way, I'm

impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I didn't send her a letter.  

How should I approach this summit?  I'm thinking of approaching it as a business

meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it, etc., so she doesn't

distract me or sucker punch me.

And, what do I do if she does bring her own list?  Do I listen to her, or call a

Time Out?  

I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out of the

way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just wants me to

start calling her every day again. I just want it over with so I can start

calling her every 2 weeks and move on. "  Not the most conciliatory, sincere

attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance. I'm tired of sparring with

her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm constantly on a witness stand when

I talk to her. I'm just tired of the relationship.

Thanks for advice and for listening.

Fiona

[Guest guest]

You know Fiona - I have had similar instances with my mom.

From a sane person's perspective, it is logical to think you can meet and

discuss something and put it behind you. But she is not a sane person and does

not think logically. I hear from you that you think that having this " one "

meeting with your mom is going to close things up so you can move to calling her

2 weeks, etc.

For MY mom, a meeting like that would light her fire. The phone calls would

begin being every day, multiple times a day, including text messages and emails.

Your T is right - she is not going to take responsibility for anything and she

most definitely will at least bring a mental list of all the ways you have hurt

her and screwed her up - you will talk around and around in circles,

accomplishing nothing, you will leave feeling drained, upset, and hurt....

Is it worth it?

Only you can decide. But I can guarantee you that this meeting with not help

bring any kind of distance between you. Quite the contrary. She will think she

can continue to harass you about one thing and the next, even more than she is

now.

You always have the option of saying " You know mom, I've thought about it, and I

really don't want to discuss the letter. I have said what I needed to say and I

do not wish to discuss it further. "

If it were me, I'd run clear from a confrontation with a BPD. But that is your

decision. Stay strong.

>

> I'm now on a weekly phone call basis with nada, which is all right, I guess.

I'd prefer every 2 weeks and am already working towards it in my head!

>

> When we spoke this morning she asked, for a second time, if we could meet to

discuss the extremely honest letter I'd sent her a few weeks ago.  The first

time she'd asked, I said, " well, I'd like that, Mom. " , knowing full well that

she probably didn't want to do anything of the kind.

>

> So, I was surprised when she brought it up again. I don't mind talking about

it, but I wonder what good it will do as I agree with my T, who says don't

expect your mother to take responsibility for her actions or to agree with you.

In fact, expect her to turn it all around and dump the blame for everything you

bring up right back into your lap.  

>

> What I expect is for her to bring her own list of grievances against me and

her list of all the ways I've screwed up her life.

>

> The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not at her

house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't want to go

out. "  So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.  In a way, I'm

impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I didn't send her a letter.  

>

> How should I approach this summit?  I'm thinking of approaching it as a

business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it, etc., so she

doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

>

> And, what do I do if she does bring her own list?  Do I listen to her, or call

a Time Out?  

>

> I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out of the

way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just wants me to

start calling her every day again. I just want it over with so I can start

calling her every 2 weeks and move on. "  Not the most conciliatory, sincere

attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance. I'm tired of sparring with

her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm constantly on a witness stand when

I talk to her. I'm just tired of the relationship.

>

> Thanks for advice and for listening.

>

> Fiona

>

>

[Guest guest]

I concur with Big Sister. I think just saying " I said what I needed to say and

don't feel the need to discuss it any further " is the safest option. I really

doubt she's going to apologize for any behavior or at least acknowledge/validate

your feelings in any way. She is going to tell you how it hurt her and how bad

you are, etc.

> >

> > I'm now on a weekly phone call basis with nada, which is all right, I guess.

I'd prefer every 2 weeks and am already working towards it in my head!

> >

> > When we spoke this morning she asked, for a second time, if we could meet to

discuss the extremely honest letter I'd sent her a few weeks ago.  The first

time she'd asked, I said, " well, I'd like that, Mom. " , knowing full well that

she probably didn't want to do anything of the kind.

> >

> > So, I was surprised when she brought it up again. I don't mind talking about

it, but I wonder what good it will do as I agree with my T, who says don't

expect your mother to take responsibility for her actions or to agree with you.

In fact, expect her to turn it all around and dump the blame for everything you

bring up right back into your lap.  

> >

> > What I expect is for her to bring her own list of grievances against me and

her list of all the ways I've screwed up her life.

> >

> > The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not at

her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't want to go

out. "  So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.  In a way, I'm

impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I didn't send her a letter.  

> >

> > How should I approach this summit?  I'm thinking of approaching it as a

business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it, etc., so she

doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

> >

> > And, what do I do if she does bring her own list?  Do I listen to her, or

call a Time Out?  

> >

> > I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out of

the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just wants me to

start calling her every day again. I just want it over with so I can start

calling her every 2 weeks and move on. "  Not the most conciliatory, sincere

attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance. I'm tired of sparring with

her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm constantly on a witness stand when

I talk to her. I'm just tired of the relationship.

> >

> > Thanks for advice and for listening.

> >

> > Fiona

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Fiona

A couple of comments and observations.

You do understand that your letter, while it may have made you feel

better, did not in any way stop her from being a BPD? So, regardless of

any meeting, unless she has accepted change and healing, she is going

to act just as she always has. We want so deperately for that not to be

so.

I waited 54 years. Then nada died.

> The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not

at her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't

want to go out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.

In a way, I'm impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I

didn't send her a letter.

I used to try and set things up for nada to participate in the family,

weddings, Christmas, new babies. She would tell me, months in advance,

well it depends on how my brain feels that day. I came to understand

that her brain would forever be on fire the day there was something to

do that she didnt want to. Furthermore, I was supposed to validate her

by commiserating that she felt so badly, even though I knew she had

decided the moment I set up the date that she would.

Her conditions make me suspect that your nada has already decided when ,

where, and how she ll meet with you, and will have excuses until you

give up and do it her way, or sound the Bullshit Horn and say forget it.

I ll bet you a Trillion dollars she is not meeting with you to say, I m

so sorry, I never realized you felt that way. What can I do to help make

it better between us.

>

> How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as

a business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it,

etc., so she doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

>

> And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her,

or call a Time Out?

>

> I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out

of the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just

wants me to start calling her every day again. I just want it over with

so I can start calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most

conciliatory, sincere attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance.

I'm tired of sparring with her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm

constantly on a witness stand when I talk to her. I'm just tired of the

relationship.

Sounds like you mistrust her. Sounds like you have grown up as a KO.

Trust your instincts. How should you approach this summit? Unless you

want it to be what you know in your gut it will be, change the

conditions. For one thing, I would never do it without a neutral party

to mediate. Ideally, I would agree to meet with her with my T. I would

1. meet with the T first, and discuss and show her the letter, 2.

Establish ground rules for the meeting with the T. 3. Let nada

understand where the meeting will take place, and that the T will tell

her the ground rules, and will mediate the meeting. If she won t agree,

( she won t, ) then tell her to forget the meeting.

Tell her you are not comfortable with that level of relationship, and if

she wishes to respond to the letter, she can write just as well as you .

All my KO instincts tell me this is a trap. Don t go.

Doug

[Guest guest]

I've had that " conversation " with my own mom in a restaurant it ended up being

entirely frustrating, she turned everything on me, she REFUSED to acknowledge

any of her mistakes and said: I'm your Mom and even if I do mistakes, they are

not mistakes because I'm your Mom. INSANE isn't it? I even brought a pad and

paper to write my points down, and that enraged her, she didn't like that I was

so organized and was going through what she said, point by point. So I ended up

ditching the paper and pen thing.

I'd say: don't bother going to that restaurant discussion. She's trying to draw

you into battle. Whether it's at home or in a restaurant isn't going to change

things .she just wants to be " busy " with something to do, which is, " dramatic " -

they love these long drawn out conversations, which NOTHING EVER COMES OUT OF

THEM except that you end up with a headache, and they end up feeling much better

for having dumped their emotional garbage all over you.

That's only my opinion of course, I've stopped having any discussion about

anything with my Mom. There simply is no point. Won't change anything.

N

> I'm now on a weekly phone call basis with nada, which is all right, I guess.

I'd prefer every 2 weeks and am already working towards it in my head!

>

> When we spoke this morning she asked, for a second time, if we could meet to

discuss the extremely honest letter I'd sent her a few weeks ago. The first

time she'd asked, I said, " well, I'd like that, Mom. " , knowing full well that

she probably didn't want to do anything of the kind.

>

> So, I was surprised when she brought it up again. I don't mind talking about

it, but I wonder what good it will do as I agree with my T, who says don't

expect your mother to take responsibility for her actions or to agree with you.

In fact, expect her to turn it all around and dump the blame for everything you

bring up right back into your lap.

>

> What I expect is for her to bring her own list of grievances against me and

her list of all the ways I've screwed up her life.

>

> The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not at her

house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't want to go

out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week. In a way, I'm

impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I didn't send her a letter.

>

> How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as a

business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it, etc., so she

doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

>

> And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her, or call

a Time Out?

>

> I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out of the

way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just wants me to

start calling her every day again. I just want it over with so I can start

calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most conciliatory, sincere

attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance. I'm tired of sparring with

her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm constantly on a witness stand when

I talk to her. I'm just tired of the relationship.

>

> Thanks for advice and for listening.

>

> Fiona

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Doug and the other posters who have opined that its very, very

unlikely that your " summit meeting " will have the positive outcome you are

hoping for.

You are hoping, I think, that this will be a rational and reasonable discussion

of specific points you listed in your letter. And you are hoping that your

mother will express sadness and remorse over these things she'd done or said

that hurt you, and you're hoping that she will be willing to discuss with you

what you need from her in order for you to feel comfortable staying in at least

limited contact with her. You're hoping that if she understands your position

and your feelings, she will agree to your point of view and acquiesce to one

phone call every two weeks without protest.

Unfortunately, it probably will not go that way at all.

Your nada will probably refuse to accept any responsibility for any of the hurts

she's inflicted on you. For each item listed in your letter, nada will either

deny that it happened at all (you are a liar) or she will have a justification

for why she behaved that way (you are a horrible daughter and deserved it) or

she will re-write the facts so that she comes out as the hero or victim (you

have a very distorted, incorrect memory AND you are a liar AND you are hateful)

or she will minimize your feelings about it (you are too sensitive.) Or, maybe

some combination of the above.

She will then insist that you agree with her, attempting to force you into

self-invalidation. (Maybe I am the crazy one? Maybe my memories are skewed?

Maybe I am a bad daughter? Maybe I do owe my mother my undying servitude,

unquestioning obedience and all my free time?)

Yes, this is a negative prognostication, but I'm hoping that if you understand

the *potential* worst-case-scenario, you can be more prepared for it and

hopefully it won't emotionally blindside you and devastate you, like an

unexpected punch in the gut. If things get real ugly real fast, you can be

prepared to put your share of the check on the table and quickly take your

leave.

Although my nada's trademark MO has been to act out in private, over the years

she has occasionally pulled some pretty spectacular histrionics in public that

were all the more difficult to handle and difficult to recover from, *because

they were unexpected*.

Forewarned is forearmed, sez I. Be prepared for the worst, then if nada decides

to wear her lucid, calm, adult hat for lunch and engage in a rational,

reasonable, productive conversation with you, you will only be pleasantly

surprised.

Best of luck to you, dear.

-Annie

>

>

>

> Fiona

>

> A couple of comments and observations.

>

> You do understand that your letter, while it may have made you feel

> better, did not in any way stop her from being a BPD? So, regardless of

> any meeting, unless she has accepted change and healing, she is going

> to act just as she always has. We want so deperately for that not to be

> so.

>

> I waited 54 years. Then nada died.

>

> > The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not

> at her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't

> want to go out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.

> In a way, I'm impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I

> didn't send her a letter.

>

> I used to try and set things up for nada to participate in the family,

> weddings, Christmas, new babies. She would tell me, months in advance,

> well it depends on how my brain feels that day. I came to understand

> that her brain would forever be on fire the day there was something to

> do that she didnt want to. Furthermore, I was supposed to validate her

> by commiserating that she felt so badly, even though I knew she had

> decided the moment I set up the date that she would.

>

> Her conditions make me suspect that your nada has already decided when ,

> where, and how she ll meet with you, and will have excuses until you

> give up and do it her way, or sound the Bullshit Horn and say forget it.

>

> I ll bet you a Trillion dollars she is not meeting with you to say, I m

> so sorry, I never realized you felt that way. What can I do to help make

> it better between us.

>

>

> >

> > How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as

> a business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it,

> etc., so she doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

> >

> > And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her,

> or call a Time Out?

> >

> > I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out

> of the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just

> wants me to start calling her every day again. I just want it over with

> so I can start calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most

> conciliatory, sincere attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance.

> I'm tired of sparring with her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm

> constantly on a witness stand when I talk to her. I'm just tired of the

> relationship.

>

> Sounds like you mistrust her. Sounds like you have grown up as a KO.

> Trust your instincts. How should you approach this summit? Unless you

> want it to be what you know in your gut it will be, change the

> conditions. For one thing, I would never do it without a neutral party

> to mediate. Ideally, I would agree to meet with her with my T. I would

> 1. meet with the T first, and discuss and show her the letter, 2.

> Establish ground rules for the meeting with the T. 3. Let nada

> understand where the meeting will take place, and that the T will tell

> her the ground rules, and will mediate the meeting. If she won t agree,

> ( she won t, ) then tell her to forget the meeting.

>

> Tell her you are not comfortable with that level of relationship, and if

> she wishes to respond to the letter, she can write just as well as you .

>

>

>

> All my KO instincts tell me this is a trap. Don t go.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your feedback, everyone.

As Fisher's character said again and again in " When Harry Met Sally "

(when Sally kept telling her that her married lover would never leave his wife

for her: " you're right, you're right, I know you're right. "

I know this dinner with nada is fruitless. And I know you're all right,

absolutely right. I think I am going to go, but after reading your posts, I

realize it's true, that taking notes, and making lists of talking points, and

bringing the letter to review it...is a waste of time.

I'm just going to go to Medium Chill it, have dinner, and go home.

(I'm not comfortable with involving my T, Doug. It's a great idea, but I'm so

not ready for that.)

>

>

>

> Fiona

>

> A couple of comments and observations.

>

> You do understand that your letter, while it may have made you feel

> better, did not in any way stop her from being a BPD? So, regardless of

> any meeting, unless she has accepted change and healing, she is going

> to act just as she always has. We want so deperately for that not to be

> so.

>

> I waited 54 years. Then nada died.

>

> > The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not

> at her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't

> want to go out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.

> In a way, I'm impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I

> didn't send her a letter.

>

> I used to try and set things up for nada to participate in the family,

> weddings, Christmas, new babies. She would tell me, months in advance,

> well it depends on how my brain feels that day. I came to understand

> that her brain would forever be on fire the day there was something to

> do that she didnt want to. Furthermore, I was supposed to validate her

> by commiserating that she felt so badly, even though I knew she had

> decided the moment I set up the date that she would.

>

> Her conditions make me suspect that your nada has already decided when ,

> where, and how she ll meet with you, and will have excuses until you

> give up and do it her way, or sound the Bullshit Horn and say forget it.

>

> I ll bet you a Trillion dollars she is not meeting with you to say, I m

> so sorry, I never realized you felt that way. What can I do to help make

> it better between us.

>

>

> >

> > How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as

> a business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it,

> etc., so she doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

> >

> > And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her,

> or call a Time Out?

> >

> > I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out

> of the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just

> wants me to start calling her every day again. I just want it over with

> so I can start calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most

> conciliatory, sincere attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance.

> I'm tired of sparring with her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm

> constantly on a witness stand when I talk to her. I'm just tired of the

> relationship.

>

> Sounds like you mistrust her. Sounds like you have grown up as a KO.

> Trust your instincts. How should you approach this summit? Unless you

> want it to be what you know in your gut it will be, change the

> conditions. For one thing, I would never do it without a neutral party

> to mediate. Ideally, I would agree to meet with her with my T. I would

> 1. meet with the T first, and discuss and show her the letter, 2.

> Establish ground rules for the meeting with the T. 3. Let nada

> understand where the meeting will take place, and that the T will tell

> her the ground rules, and will mediate the meeting. If she won t agree,

> ( she won t, ) then tell her to forget the meeting.

>

> Tell her you are not comfortable with that level of relationship, and if

> she wishes to respond to the letter, she can write just as well as you .

>

>

>

> All my KO instincts tell me this is a trap. Don t go.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

" If things get real ugly real fast, you can be prepared to put your share of the

check on the table and quickly take your leave. "

Yes! I'm planning on choosing a restaurant close to her house, so she can walk

home if it gets ugly.

Annie, it feels like you've been in my head observing my ruminations.

I'm actually proud of myself that I really haven't been expecting any good to

come from my dinner with her. I no longer have a need to prove anything to her.

I have been re-reading my journals and my posts on our board from early on and I

see that she will never, ever, EVER change.

I fully expect her to say that I'm too sensitive, that I over think things, that

I've always been like this, that this is just the way she is and she can't help

it, that she's LOOOONELY.

I'm trying to think of a good, pithy phrase I can say over and over. Something

like, " I don't know what to tell you, Mom. " Or, " I'm sorry, that's how I feel

about it. "

To me, this dinner feels like a formality, just a dinner to get through to say I

did it.

And heck, who's to say **I** won't be the one to suddenly not feel like going as

she has done so, so many times....because she wasn't feeling up to it?

Thanks so much for your support and advice.

Fiona

> >

> >

> >

> > Fiona

> >

> > A couple of comments and observations.

> >

> > You do understand that your letter, while it may have made you feel

> > better, did not in any way stop her from being a BPD? So, regardless of

> > any meeting, unless she has accepted change and healing, she is going

> > to act just as she always has. We want so deperately for that not to be

> > so.

> >

> > I waited 54 years. Then nada died.

> >

> > > The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not

> > at her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't

> > want to go out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.

> > In a way, I'm impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I

> > didn't send her a letter.

> >

> > I used to try and set things up for nada to participate in the family,

> > weddings, Christmas, new babies. She would tell me, months in advance,

> > well it depends on how my brain feels that day. I came to understand

> > that her brain would forever be on fire the day there was something to

> > do that she didnt want to. Furthermore, I was supposed to validate her

> > by commiserating that she felt so badly, even though I knew she had

> > decided the moment I set up the date that she would.

> >

> > Her conditions make me suspect that your nada has already decided when ,

> > where, and how she ll meet with you, and will have excuses until you

> > give up and do it her way, or sound the Bullshit Horn and say forget it.

> >

> > I ll bet you a Trillion dollars she is not meeting with you to say, I m

> > so sorry, I never realized you felt that way. What can I do to help make

> > it better between us.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as

> > a business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it,

> > etc., so she doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

> > >

> > > And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her,

> > or call a Time Out?

> > >

> > > I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out

> > of the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just

> > wants me to start calling her every day again. I just want it over with

> > so I can start calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most

> > conciliatory, sincere attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance.

> > I'm tired of sparring with her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm

> > constantly on a witness stand when I talk to her. I'm just tired of the

> > relationship.

> >

> > Sounds like you mistrust her. Sounds like you have grown up as a KO.

> > Trust your instincts. How should you approach this summit? Unless you

> > want it to be what you know in your gut it will be, change the

> > conditions. For one thing, I would never do it without a neutral party

> > to mediate. Ideally, I would agree to meet with her with my T. I would

> > 1. meet with the T first, and discuss and show her the letter, 2.

> > Establish ground rules for the meeting with the T. 3. Let nada

> > understand where the meeting will take place, and that the T will tell

> > her the ground rules, and will mediate the meeting. If she won t agree,

> > ( she won t, ) then tell her to forget the meeting.

> >

> > Tell her you are not comfortable with that level of relationship, and if

> > she wishes to respond to the letter, she can write just as well as you .

> >

> >

> >

> > All my KO instincts tell me this is a trap. Don t go.

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Anuria,

You forgot the part where nada pulls out all your failings and attacks you with

them. You know...the ones she was accepting of while you did, said, and

believed exactly as she wanted you to, but then she turns on a dime about them

when you don't do as she wants. Usually it's whatever you are most sensitive

about...your weight, some failure in the past like failing in school, etc. This

was my nada's favorite trick.

Pretty exhaustive list, though. I'd say she's well prepared after all this!

Good, good luck for lunch with nada. Let us know how it goes.

--.

[Guest guest]

N! You reminded me of something I'd forgotten. My nada used to get furious

with me for being " too organized, " planning my schedule and taking pen and

paper places. The woman who was often say 12 hours late for an appt thought

I had a huge personality problem because i arried places on time and

prepared.

I'd forgotten that one. . .

> **

>

>

> Anuria,

>

> You forgot the part where nada pulls out all your failings and attacks you

> with them. You know...the ones she was accepting of while you did, said, and

> believed exactly as she wanted you to, but then she turou rns on a dime

> about them when you don't do as she wants. Usually it's whatever you are

> most sensitive about...your weight, some failure in the past like failing in

> school, etc. This was my nada's favorite trick.

>

> Pretty exhaustive list, though. I'd say she's well prepared after all this!

>

> Good, good luck for lunch with nada. Let us know how it goes.

>

> --.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can I sound one more warning, just to make sure you are prepared for this? I was

thinking about it last night over and over again.

It's quite possible your nada will be on perfect behavior and be completely

lucid and act EXACTLY like the mother you've always wanted. THEN, the next day,

she will turn it all around, lie to other people about what happened, gaslight

to you about how it went down, and twist every single thing you discussed,

warping you even further.

So just be prepared that if she is lucid, stay on that medium chill.

Best of luck,

> >

> >

> >

> > Fiona

> >

> > A couple of comments and observations.

> >

> > You do understand that your letter, while it may have made you feel

> > better, did not in any way stop her from being a BPD? So, regardless of

> > any meeting, unless she has accepted change and healing, she is going

> > to act just as she always has. We want so deperately for that not to be

> > so.

> >

> > I waited 54 years. Then nada died.

> >

> > > The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not

> > at her house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't

> > want to go out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week.

> > In a way, I'm impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I

> > didn't send her a letter.

> >

> > I used to try and set things up for nada to participate in the family,

> > weddings, Christmas, new babies. She would tell me, months in advance,

> > well it depends on how my brain feels that day. I came to understand

> > that her brain would forever be on fire the day there was something to

> > do that she didnt want to. Furthermore, I was supposed to validate her

> > by commiserating that she felt so badly, even though I knew she had

> > decided the moment I set up the date that she would.

> >

> > Her conditions make me suspect that your nada has already decided when ,

> > where, and how she ll meet with you, and will have excuses until you

> > give up and do it her way, or sound the Bullshit Horn and say forget it.

> >

> > I ll bet you a Trillion dollars she is not meeting with you to say, I m

> > so sorry, I never realized you felt that way. What can I do to help make

> > it better between us.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as

> > a business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it,

> > etc., so she doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

> > >

> > > And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her,

> > or call a Time Out?

> > >

> > > I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out

> > of the way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just

> > wants me to start calling her every day again. I just want it over with

> > so I can start calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most

> > conciliatory, sincere attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance.

> > I'm tired of sparring with her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm

> > constantly on a witness stand when I talk to her. I'm just tired of the

> > relationship.

> >

> > Sounds like you mistrust her. Sounds like you have grown up as a KO.

> > Trust your instincts. How should you approach this summit? Unless you

> > want it to be what you know in your gut it will be, change the

> > conditions. For one thing, I would never do it without a neutral party

> > to mediate. Ideally, I would agree to meet with her with my T. I would

> > 1. meet with the T first, and discuss and show her the letter, 2.

> > Establish ground rules for the meeting with the T. 3. Let nada

> > understand where the meeting will take place, and that the T will tell

> > her the ground rules, and will mediate the meeting. If she won t agree,

> > ( she won t, ) then tell her to forget the meeting.

> >

> > Tell her you are not comfortable with that level of relationship, and if

> > she wishes to respond to the letter, she can write just as well as you .

> >

> >

> >

> > All my KO instincts tell me this is a trap. Don t go.

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fiona,

After the disastrous trip I went on with my nada last year, once we got back she

wanted to 'talk' about it. Both my sis and I refused, saying " it's done, " " let

it lie, " " no blame, just move on. " etc. She kept at us for months, trying to

draw us into arguments over the phone. We both held our ground. I am ashamed to

say early on I gave her a blanket apology for all the ways in which I failed her

as a daughter and begged her to not blow up our family (which she's done before

during another time she was this riled up--and in a psychologist's office yet).

I know what she is capable of, yet in her next breathe she attributes all the

unreasonableness, all the anger and yelling to ME.

Just when I thought it was *safe* to not worry about yet another ambush, she

started in on me again over the phone. " Won't you just meet with me at a

restaurant somewhere so we can discuss this? " " so you don't care about our

relationship. " were her 2 favorite FOG statements that day.

I almost gave in to the restaurant idea, but was saved by her next statement: " I

just want to talk with you to show you where your thinking is wrong. " OH--OK

mom, you just want to TELL me how it really is, not how me and the rest of the

world sees things. One of *those* meetings.

My mother can be a very caring, loving person. But the demons who have control

over her mind make her a very scary person: unpredicable, unreasonable,

demanding, manipulative, unaccountable and forgetful.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

>

> I'm now on a weekly phone call basis with nada, which is all right, I guess.

I'd prefer every 2 weeks and am already working towards it in my head!

>

> When we spoke this morning she asked, for a second time, if we could meet to

discuss the extremely honest letter I'd sent her a few weeks ago. The first

time she'd asked, I said, " well, I'd like that, Mom. " , knowing full well that

she probably didn't want to do anything of the kind.

>

> So, I was surprised when she brought it up again. I don't mind talking about

it, but I wonder what good it will do as I agree with my T, who says don't

expect your mother to take responsibility for her actions or to agree with you.

In fact, expect her to turn it all around and dump the blame for everything you

bring up right back into your lap.

>

> What I expect is for her to bring her own list of grievances against me and

her list of all the ways I've screwed up her life.

>

> The one condition I have is that we talk about it in a restaurant, not at her

house. She's agreed to that but said, " well, if it rains, I won't want to go

out. " So I said, well, then, we'll have to do it next week. In a way, I'm

impressed that she didn't, as in the past, pretend I didn't send her a letter.

>

> How should I approach this summit? I'm thinking of approaching it as a

business meeting. I want to bring the letter, with my notes on it, etc., so she

doesn't distract me or sucker punch me.

>

> And, what do I do if she does bring her own list? Do I listen to her, or call

a Time Out?

>

> I'm honestly looking at this as " let's just get this stupid dinner out of the

way b/c we both know nothing's going to change from it. She just wants me to

start calling her every day again. I just want it over with so I can start

calling her every 2 weeks and move on. " Not the most conciliatory, sincere

attitude, but I'm coming from a protective stance. I'm tired of sparring with

her, and especially tired of feeling like I'm constantly on a witness stand when

I talk to her. I'm just tired of the relationship.

>

> Thanks for advice and for listening.

>

> Fiona

>

>

[Guest guest]

" It's quite possible your nada will be on perfect behavior and be completely

lucid and act EXACTLY like the mother you've always wanted. THEN, the next day,

she will turn it all around, lie to other people about what happened, gaslight

to you about how it went down, and twist every single thing you discussed,

warping you even further. "

Ugh, yes, I've been thinking that, too.

What if she apologizes for everything, agrees that I'm completely right,

promises to change...

What I've also been thinking about is however our meeting goes, these are the 2

things I am not wavering from, no way, no how:

* I will not allow her to talk down to my kids OR to intrude in my family life

with her panicked, mean-spirited comments. If she talks down or intrudes,

buh-bye...

* I am not calling her every day. Maybe every week, maybe every other week.

I've decided I really don't care what she says b/c I'm not convinced of how

sincere she is (much like an abused person hearing their abuser say they didn't

mean it and this is the last time that'll happen, you know?); all I care about

are those 2 points.

I have to keep my game face on, though. She's very good at making me feel sorry

for her but again, no matter how much she turns on the water works, those are 2

points I will not back down on.

Sigh!  You'd think I was negotiating a peace treaty in the Middle East!  

Thanks for bringing that up; it helped me think this through some more.

Fiona