Is Hindsight 20/20?

March 12, 2012

I really appreciate the stories and advice posted here. Unfortunately I

have to pick and choose the threads that I read because there is so much

being shared.

In reading many accounts of very abusive " nadas " (it's going to take me a

while to get used to the nicknames/acronyms) it made me feel like, " That's

not *my* mom. "

A brief history:

I grew up with both parents (at first) and an older sister. My mom

emotionally " pampered " me to the point that some called me a " Momma's

Boy. " But I rarely resented it, because I quickly fell into the role of my

mom's confidant, protector and shoulder-to-cry on (from age 6 on). At

about age 7-8 I realized that my parents were not getting along well, my

dad would drink at home in the evenings to " relax " but he would become

verbally abusive and angry (sometimes smashing things, but not people) and

my mom would drink by herself, often hiding it, and emotionally withdraw

from him and most others (but not me). My dad clamped down a lot on my

teenage sister and she ran away (for years). Things just got worse -- my

mom would end up in the hospital to " dry out, " she was diagnosed as bipolar

(manic-depressive back in those days), she had electroshock therapy (that I

witnessed one time when I was about 9-10 and is one of the most frightening

things that I have ever seen a loved-one go through) and ended up in AA and

also with a psychiatrist. But as far as I can recall the pattern continued.

Eventually my dad left, and left me with her (age 10) for a few years. We

all still lived near each other and I visited my dad, but I was the sole

caretaker of my mother and had to make sure that she was sober (enough) to

get to work (she was an elementary-school teacher). Ultimately my dad

realized how this was all affecting my schooling and he got custody of me.

My mother never really changed. She eventually got a disability retirement

after several " nervous breakdowns " and when I was an adult and married I

was able to pull back some and my sister (who had returned to the family

after many years) was the " drop in " caretaker of my mom until my mom ended

up in a nursing home where she died from Alzheimer's disease.

Just recently I discussed with my dad (now 83) about BPD (he's psychologist

-- not a clinical one, but a teaching one -- and had heard very little of

BPD), asking if that might have been what my mom had. He said that it did

sound like it. And he gave me even more details of how he had struggled to

try to maintain their relationship, but that it was just too hard and the

hospitalizations and treatment at the time really made no difference (he

did say that the electroshock therapy actually produced the best, and

longest-lasting, results). And that is why he left. And, for the first

time, he apologized to me for leaving me to take care of her. He never

realized how her problems were, and would be, affecting me.

Well -- what is interesting is that for much of my life I really saw my mom

as the victim of my dad. Mainly because that's how she portrayed it, and

that was really all that I heard being her confidant all those years. Even

into my adulthood I held that belief and that my dad was the " monster. "

Well, after my mom passed away I went to counseling for anger issues

(surprise, surprise!) and I was diagnosed with PTSD from my childhood

living in the midst of all of this. And my counselor was able to get me to

see much more in shades of grey for both my mom and dad, to help understand

the good things that my dad had also done for the family and the bad things

that my mom had put me through. That helped me a lot in terms of my anger

issues.

But the point of all of this is that I *still* tend to remember only the

" poor me " victim Mom -- so when I read these accounts of emotionally

abusive moms (even when the kids are way into adulthood), at first that is

very jarring and my gut reaction is, " Boy, I'm glad that my mom wasn't like

that! " But as I sit and stew on it more I do remember how vicious my mom

would become when I would pour the bottles of wine and vodka down the

sink. How she would threaten to " hate " me for the rest of her life when I

tried to sober her up (and yes -- very much like a little child

emotionally). And more physical explosions (but not hurting me) that she

would have. A lot of those memories are still pretty repressed.

So -- sometimes (often) I tend to put on those " rose-colored glasses " when

quickly (painlessly) glancing into my past and looking at my relationship

with my mom. But spending a little more time thinking about it, from

reading the accounts here, helps me remember it all, and hopefully

understand better how I ended up where I am (struggling with intimate

emotional relationships). And even though she passed away 10 years ago,

the experience has shaped (warped?) my life. I don't have the opportunity

to put up healthy boundaries now to protect myself from her, but I can work

to rid myself of the " fleas " (or at least understand how to live with them)

that I am left with.

Thanks -- Dana

March 12, 2012

Thanks for sharing your story, Dana. You have achieved a great deal of personal

insight and have processed a lot of trauma, seems to me, and that's wonderful.

My impression is that you were totally " parentified " by your mother, who may

indeed have had bpd + other mental disorders, and alcoholism. It IS so very

abusive to a child to parentify the child; its emotional abuse. That is good

that you were able to have access to therapy and have been able to work through

the anger.

Bpd can express itself differently in different individuals; your mother sounds

more like a " Waif " or a " Hermit " sub-type of bpd. The " Waif " has bpd +

dependent pd, and the " Hermit " has bpd + avoidant pd. These are the individuals

who are more child-like, fearful and clingy and tend to parentify their own

children.

If you haven't yet read " Understanding The Borderline Mother " , you might want to

check it out. It describes the sub-types of bpd mother, how her behaviors

impact her children, and what type of man she chooses to marry.

-Annie

>

> I really appreciate the stories and advice posted here. Unfortunately I

> have to pick and choose the threads that I read because there is so much

> being shared.

>

> In reading many accounts of very abusive " nadas " (it's going to take me a

> while to get used to the nicknames/acronyms) it made me feel like, " That's

> not *my* mom. "

>

> A brief history:

>

> I grew up with both parents (at first) and an older sister. My mom

> emotionally " pampered " me to the point that some called me a " Momma's

> Boy. " But I rarely resented it, because I quickly fell into the role of my

> mom's confidant, protector and shoulder-to-cry on (from age 6 on). At

> about age 7-8 I realized that my parents were not getting along well, my

> dad would drink at home in the evenings to " relax " but he would become

> verbally abusive and angry (sometimes smashing things, but not people) and

> my mom would drink by herself, often hiding it, and emotionally withdraw

> from him and most others (but not me). My dad clamped down a lot on my

> teenage sister and she ran away (for years). Things just got worse -- my

> mom would end up in the hospital to " dry out, " she was diagnosed as bipolar

> (manic-depressive back in those days), she had electroshock therapy (that I

> witnessed one time when I was about 9-10 and is one of the most frightening

> things that I have ever seen a loved-one go through) and ended up in AA and

> also with a psychiatrist. But as far as I can recall the pattern continued.

>

> Eventually my dad left, and left me with her (age 10) for a few years. We

> all still lived near each other and I visited my dad, but I was the sole

> caretaker of my mother and had to make sure that she was sober (enough) to

> get to work (she was an elementary-school teacher). Ultimately my dad

> realized how this was all affecting my schooling and he got custody of me.

>

> My mother never really changed. She eventually got a disability retirement

> after several " nervous breakdowns " and when I was an adult and married I

> was able to pull back some and my sister (who had returned to the family

> after many years) was the " drop in " caretaker of my mom until my mom ended

> up in a nursing home where she died from Alzheimer's disease.

>

> Just recently I discussed with my dad (now 83) about BPD (he's psychologist

> -- not a clinical one, but a teaching one -- and had heard very little of

> BPD), asking if that might have been what my mom had. He said that it did

> sound like it. And he gave me even more details of how he had struggled to

> try to maintain their relationship, but that it was just too hard and the

> hospitalizations and treatment at the time really made no difference (he

> did say that the electroshock therapy actually produced the best, and

> longest-lasting, results). And that is why he left. And, for the first

> time, he apologized to me for leaving me to take care of her. He never

> realized how her problems were, and would be, affecting me.

>

> Well -- what is interesting is that for much of my life I really saw my mom

> as the victim of my dad. Mainly because that's how she portrayed it, and

> that was really all that I heard being her confidant all those years. Even

> into my adulthood I held that belief and that my dad was the " monster. "

> Well, after my mom passed away I went to counseling for anger issues

> (surprise, surprise!) and I was diagnosed with PTSD from my childhood

> living in the midst of all of this. And my counselor was able to get me to

> see much more in shades of grey for both my mom and dad, to help understand

> the good things that my dad had also done for the family and the bad things

> that my mom had put me through. That helped me a lot in terms of my anger

> issues.

>

> But the point of all of this is that I *still* tend to remember only the

> " poor me " victim Mom -- so when I read these accounts of emotionally

> abusive moms (even when the kids are way into adulthood), at first that is

> very jarring and my gut reaction is, " Boy, I'm glad that my mom wasn't like

> that! " But as I sit and stew on it more I do remember how vicious my mom

> would become when I would pour the bottles of wine and vodka down the

> sink. How she would threaten to " hate " me for the rest of her life when I

> tried to sober her up (and yes -- very much like a little child

> emotionally). And more physical explosions (but not hurting me) that she

> would have. A lot of those memories are still pretty repressed.

>

> So -- sometimes (often) I tend to put on those " rose-colored glasses " when

> quickly (painlessly) glancing into my past and looking at my relationship

> with my mom. But spending a little more time thinking about it, from

> reading the accounts here, helps me remember it all, and hopefully

> understand better how I ended up where I am (struggling with intimate

> emotional relationships). And even though she passed away 10 years ago,

> the experience has shaped (warped?) my life. I don't have the opportunity

> to put up healthy boundaries now to protect myself from her, but I can work

> to rid myself of the " fleas " (or at least understand how to live with them)

> that I am left with.

>

> Thanks -- Dana

>

March 12, 2012

I saw my mother as the victim of my father as well. She confided in me as I got

older. I was about 14 when she told me, for instance, that the only reason she

had sex with him before marriage was because he wouldn't stop begging her for

it.

They had a father/daughter dynamic going, and I recognized that it was unhealthy

very early on. He was impatient with her and yelled. He yelled at me too. In

that way, my mother and I had a sort of solidarity.

HOWEVER, she also bullied me. Laughed at me. A number of things.

I think the bottom line is that she was unstable and he handled her the best way

he knew how. Often, that meant trying to control ME and get ME to do what she

wanted so she would shut the heck up (even when I was in my late 30's).

It's kind of the definition of codependency, but yeah, if one parent is nutty,

the other seems to step in an handle it in their own crummy, dysfunctional way.

I would see my mother cry after my father yelled at her, and I felt badly for

her. It took years of distance for me to really see the whole picture. He

bullied her and me, because he had anger issues and didn't know how to handle

his frustration. Then she took out her frustration on me, because she didn't

know how to handle it either, and I won't even get into how the dog was treated.

Even if she didn't explode at you very often, making her child her confidant is

a very selfish thing to do. It is hurtful in its own way. Consider, for

instance, how it hurt your relationship with your father.

I don't know. Sometimes I get so tired of being mad about it, that I just

think, " Well they did the best they could. I deserved better, but they didn't

have it to give. "

My mother was often the hermit and waif type, like yours. I think seeing her

that way made it difficult for me to see when she was manipulating, using,

controlling me in my adult years. In your case, adding alcohol to all of

that...that's just awful. It must have been very difficult to have all that on

your shoulders at the age of 10. Hopefully with therapy, we can all move

forward.

Deanna